Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.

[burnley007]

Anytime you’ve replied to me over the past week you’ve actually not refuted any one of my points, just complete non arguments.

What am I wrong about, tell me.

Can you 2 not fill 3 pages arguing on here now. It's dull.

[ab1882]

VK before the Villa game https://youtu.be/0CaqjAbh1bU

VK: I think we had the choice to stand still and then obviously you benefit a little bit more of a settled team or to use the fact that we went to the Premier League to actually do what we need to do, in my opinion, and is to strengthen as much as we can as early as we can. You take a little bit of the pain in the beginning and hopefully in the long term it pays off, but standing still going from the Championship into the Premier League, yeah it's not an exercise that would have worked well for us, you know, in terms of trying to grow and not just survive forever in the Premier League.

We really struggled to recruit in the Dyche ALK era. After the Norwich game the players felt they could play in a more expansive way, SD disagreed and wanted to stick to his methods, so ALK moved on from him (paraphrasing from, I think, the Football Ramble podcast with Ben Mee).

Players want to work with VK partly due to the style of play, if they perform for us they'll move up the football ladder. You don't have to like it, and you can question it, but it's the era we're living in. It's probably not going to be easy this season (especially without a left back!), but we can stay up. Everton stayed up with 8 wins last season, Forest 9.

Zaroury signed a year ago today btw, we've come a long way in a year. Hopefully the next year is equally as kind. UTC.

[Nori1958]

Back to transfers

https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2 ... nley-move/

[Rileybobs]

We’ve clearly signed some young, exciting players and that’s a welcome change from how we used to operate. But the number one priority this season has to be to remain in this division and building on the amazing job that Vinny has done so far. Also bearing in mind that he won’t be here forever and will be difficult to replace.

My concern at the moment relates to a comment which was stressed by Vinny a few times in the recent documentary. He said that he believes his methods take over 100 coaching sessions and meetings before players start to excel in these systems. So it seems naive to me that we would start 6 players against Villa who won’t be close to that number.

We know how difficult results will be this season and we’ve played two of the best teams in the division, so it’s certainly not time to panic. But we seem to be lacking experience of both Vinny’s complex style of play and of Premier League football - in fact of our starting eleven on Sunday only Roberts and Berge have any PL experience (unless you count Cullen’s two PL appearances for West Ham).

I think there could be a more balanced approach to team selection and I’m also slightly worried whether we should have taken a more balanced approach to our transfer policy this season. The next few days are probably critical to our season. Both full back positions particularly are a concern for me.

[willsclarets]

We’ve clearly signed some young, exciting players and that’s a welcome change from how we used to operate. But the number one priority this season has to be to remain in this division and building on the amazing job that Vinny has done so far. Also bearing in mind that he won’t be here forever and will be difficult to replace.

My concern at the moment relates to a comment which was stressed by Vinny a few times in the recent documentary. He said that he believes his methods take over 100 coaching sessions and meetings before players start to excel in these systems. So it seems naive to me that we would start 6 players against Villa who won’t be close to that number.

We know how difficult results will be this season and we’ve played two of the best teams in the division, so it’s certainly not time to panic. But we seem to be lacking experience of both Vinny’s complex style of play and of Premier League football - in fact of our starting eleven on Sunday only Roberts and Berge have any PL experience (unless you count Cullen’s two PL appearances for West Ham).

I think there could be a more balanced approach to team selection and I’m also slightly worried whether we should have taken a more balanced approach to our transfer policy this season. The next few days are probably critical to our season. Both full back positions particularly are a concern for me.

Bingo.

[Rick_Muller]

Back to transfers

https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2 ... nley-move/

How very dare you…!

[RVclaret]

‘KRC Genk and Burnley reach agreement in principle on Mike Trésor transfer

KRC Genk and Burnley have reached an agreement in principle on Mike Trésor's transfer to the Premier League club. There are a number of things that have yet to be clarified, but it is expected that the transfer can already be officialized today.‘

https://www.hbvl.be/cnt/dmf20230830_94011523

[claretbob]

But isn’t the point that it is matches and training sessions that gets the new players up to speed? If we were playing our relegation rivals at home don’t you think Vinny’s approach might have been different? Call me an optimist but I think he is taking the opportunity to bed these players in knowing full well that the calibre of opposition would have meant likely defeats anyway. If he is right by the time Palace come to the Turf we should be seeing a huge difference in performance level. What that also requires is our support to keep their nerve even if we have 1-2 points after 9 matches. Bearing in mind the reaction so far Vinny might be sadly disappointed in us but let’s hope not.

[Selby Claret]

‘KRC Genk and Burnley reach agreement in principle on Mike Trésor transfer

KRC Genk and Burnley have reached an agreement in principle on Mike Trésor's transfer to the Premier League club. There are a number of things that have yet to be clarified, but it is expected that the transfer can already be officialized today.‘

https://www.hbvl.be/cnt/dmf20230830_94011523

Can't wait for this to be officialized

[dibraidio]

Free since June 30 after a good loan to Auxerre, Han-Noah Massengo will join Burnley in the Premier League (l’equipe)

The article from l'équipe:

One of the biggest surprises of the second half of last season at Auxerre. Loaned from Bristol City, Han-Noah Massengo made a promising return to L1 to the point of being called up by France for the U21s. Without a club since June, the former Monaco player (22 years old) could quickly join Burnley, promoted to the Premier League. Vincent Kompany, the Belgian manager of the English club, has been in contact for several weeks. The contract agreement hasn't been concluded but the discussions progress.

Not quite as definitive as the headline suggests. Earlier in the summer journalists were suggesting that he was worried about how much playing time he would get. Perhaps a lack of other options has made him rethink his position.

[Rileybobs]

But isn’t the point that it is matches and training sessions that gets the new players up to speed? If we were playing our relegation rivals at home don’t you think Vinny’s approach might have been different? Call me an optimist but I think he is taking the opportunity to bed these players in knowing full well that the calibre of opposition would have meant likely defeats anyway. If he is right by the time Palace come to the Turf we should be seeing a huge difference in performance level. What that also requires is our support to keep their nerve even if we have 1-2 points after 9 matches. Bearing in mind the reaction so far Vinny might be sadly disappointed in us but let’s hope not.

Pretty sure Vinny referred specifically to training sessions and meetings. Of course invaluable experience will be gained from competitive matches, but a balance has to be found, and for me having a starting lineup of which more than half will be at nowhere near the levels Vinny is aiming to get to seems quite naive.

And whilst I agree with your sentiment in our opening encounter with Man City, we really shouldn’t be set up expecting defeat at home against the likes of Villa. Of course they are a very good opposition but we need to take points of teams of this quality throughout the season.

[Steddyman]

We’ve clearly signed some young, exciting players and that’s a welcome change from how we used to operate. But the number one priority this season has to be to remain in this division and building on the amazing job that Vinny has done so far. Also bearing in mind that he won’t be here forever and will be difficult to replace.

My concern at the moment relates to a comment which was stressed by Vinny a few times in the recent documentary. He said that he believes his methods take over 100 coaching sessions and meetings before players start to excel in these systems. So it seems naive to me that we would start 6 players against Villa who won’t be close to that number.

We know how difficult results will be this season and we’ve played two of the best teams in the division, so it’s certainly not time to panic. But we seem to be lacking experience of both Vinny’s complex style of play and of Premier League football - in fact of our starting eleven on Sunday only Roberts and Berge have any PL experience (unless you count Cullen’s two PL appearances for West Ham).

I think there could be a more balanced approach to team selection and I’m also slightly worried whether we should have taken a more balanced approach to our transfer policy this season. The next few days are probably critical to our season. Both full back positions particularly are a concern for me.

The problem is, it isn't Powerpoint presentations alone. That will be 100 coaching sessions combined with experience of trying to implement them on the pitch in competitive games.

[CrosspoolClarets]

‘KRC Genk and Burnley reach agreement in principle on Mike Trésor transfer

KRC Genk and Burnley have reached an agreement in principle on Mike Trésor's transfer to the Premier League club. There are a number of things that have yet to be clarified, but it is expected that the transfer can already be officialized today.‘

https://www.hbvl.be/cnt/dmf20230830_94011523

May be worth in all the hysteria remembering that back in May or maybe June Tresor was talked of by those in the know as Vinny's top transfer target.

It will be a big coup if we get him. If we have spent £10m or so on wingers for tomorrow not for today, lets leave that for the club finance director to worry about.

[CoolClaret]

Players want to work with VK partly due to the style of play, if they perform for us they'll move up the football ladder. You don't have to like it, and you can question it, but it's the era we're living in. It's probably not going to be easy this season (especially without a left back!), but we can stay up. Everton stayed up with 8 wins last season, Forest 9.

There’s me thinking that Danny Ings got a move to Liverpool, Trippier to Spurs (then on to win La Liga), Pope to Newcastle now in the CL, countless more all playing in the Prem…

[Rileybobs]

The problem is, it isn't Powerpoint presentations alone. That will be 100 coaching sessions combined with experience of trying to implement them on the pitch in competitive games.

Of course, but that’s why I wouldn’t start an important Premier League game where we are assimilating over half of a team who aren’t up to speed with the systems.

[Carwin261]

But isn’t the point that it is matches and training sessions that gets the new players up to speed? If we were playing our relegation rivals at home don’t you think Vinny’s approach might have been different? Call me an optimist but I think he is taking the opportunity to bed these players in knowing full well that the calibre of opposition would have meant likely defeats anyway. If he is right by the time Palace come to the Turf we should be seeing a huge difference in performance level. What that also requires is our support to keep their nerve even if we have 1-2 points after 9 matches. Bearing in mind the reaction so far Vinny might be sadly disappointed in us but let’s hope not.

You need to be barred for the rest of the season talking sense like that .

[CoolClaret]

But isn’t the point that it is matches and training sessions that gets the new players up to speed? If we were playing our relegation rivals at home don’t you think Vinny’s approach might have been different? Call me an optimist but I think he is taking the opportunity to bed these players in knowing full well that the calibre of opposition would have meant likely defeats anyway. If he is right by the time Palace come to the Turf we should be seeing a huge difference in performance level. What that also requires is our support to keep their nerve even if we have 1-2 points after 9 matches. Bearing in mind the reaction so far Vinny might be sadly disappointed in us but let’s hope not.

There’s a saying in the NFL.

Any given Sunday.

You play your best team. The opening two fixtures in the PL is not a stage for experimenting what so ever.

[Steddyman]

Of course, but that’s why I wouldn’t start an important Premier League game where we are assimilating over half of a team who aren’t up to speed with the systems.

I agree with you, though I would guess all Premier League games are important and they have to put the hours in to learn. Also, we have injuries to players like Brownhill.

[burnley007]

There will likely be £2m-3m compensation due to Brizzle if we sign Massengo

[CoolClaret]

Could be just coincidence but Bristol City were sniffing around the playoffs for the sort of 2.5 seasons that Brownhill was playing/captaining them in the championship- since he left and Scott (criminally overrated imo) and Massengo took over the midfield they were lulling about in the bottom third of the league.

The Bristol City fans seem pretty unanimous in support and admiration of Scott (and Brownhill for that matter) but are masssively down / very divided on Massengo..

I’m sure that some analytics model somewhere says that he can play a bit though

[Newcastleclaret93]

Could be just coincidence but Bristol City were sniffing around the playoffs for the sort of 2.5 seasons that Brownhill was playing/captaining them in the championship- since he left and Scott (criminally overrated imo) and Massengo took over the midfield they were lulling about in the bottom third of the league.

The Bristol City fans seem pretty unanimous in support and admiration of Scott (and Brownhill for that matter) but are masssively down / very divided on Massengo..

I’m sure that some analytics model somewhere says that he can play a bit though

Quick look, they finished between 18th and 8th in the seasons Brownhill was at the club.

They finished between 19th and 12th when massengo was the at the club. Although that first season he was only 17 when he started in midfield.

They only finished in the top ten once since they got promoted back to the championship in 2015

[CrosspoolClarets]

This is a transfer thread not a match selection thread but that long post by Rileybobs that includes the bit about only two of our starting XI on Sunday having any PL experience apart from Cullen with 2 West Ham apps.

In truth every single player apart from Delcroix had PL experience - they all started against City two weeks earlier. If we are to use Cullen’s few minutes we have to also use those.

The point being, he is deciding on the best way to get our maximum points haul THIS season, and even more points NEXT season, he has earned the right to do it his way, just as he has earned the right to sign who he wants. Of course we can discuss it, but we should also trust Vinny even though he will make mistakes along the way.

[CoolClaret]

Quick look, they finished between 18th and 8th in the seasons Brownhill was at the club.

They finished between 19th and 12th when massengo was the at the club. Although that first season he was only 17 when he started in midfield.

They only finished in the top ten once since they got promoted back to the championship in 2015

Aye we poached Brownhill in that January of 2020 when they finished 12th (19/20) (he had scored 5 league goals in 28 apps from midfield), the previous season (18/19) finished 8th then the season after (20/21) Brownhill left they slumped to 19th followed by 17th (21/22) then 14th in the season just gone (22/23).

Seems like his departure left a bit of a hole

[Newcastleclaret93]

Aye we poached Brownhill in that January of 2020 when they finished 12th (19/20) (he had scored 5 league goals in 28 apps from midfield), the previous season (18/19) finished 8th then the season after (20/21) Brownhill left they slumped to 19th followed by 17th (21/22) then 14th in the season just gone (22/23).

Seems like his departure left a bit of a hole

They also sold 36m worth of CBs in that window which certainly didn’t help

[claretonthecoast1882]

Wonder how much Bristol City spent on new players since January 2020.

Of course this will be nothing to do with it. We now have someone being picked at because he didn't get Bristol City into the play offs when he was 17 or 18. Genuinely wonder why some bother with the club it seems to bring them so much unhappiness.

[claretonthecoast1882]

They also sold 36m worth of CBs in that window which certainly didn’t help

I think they went about 3 seasons without spending a penny after this as well, but that narrative won't suit some agendas

[Newcastleclaret93]

I think they went about 3 seasons without spending a penny after this as well, but that narrative won't suit some agendas

Since that Brownhill transfer (including this window) they have spent a total of 5m

[CoolClaret]

Aye losing Webster was a big loss for them as well - think they got some good loans in the following few seasons but whatever.

Is this a guy that’s going to contribute right away and elevate the team or is it another project?

[ab1882]

There’s me thinking that Danny Ings got a move to Liverpool, Trippier to Spurs (then on to win La Liga), Pope to Newcastle now in the CL, countless more all playing in the Prem…

My point that didn't make your quote was "We really struggled to recruit in the Dyche ALK era".
21 Winter I think we can write off due to the takeover & Covid. That leaves;
21 Summer: Cornet, Collins, Roberts, Hennessey & Lennon.
22 Winter: Weghorst.

Off the top of my head I believe we missed out on Harry Wilson & Orsic in those windows, probably more. Not blaming SD, and I appreciate Cornet, Collins & Hennessey all got moves, but lessons have clearly been learnt to get more deals done. I believe style of play is one of the factors that comes into that, but certainly not the only reason.

Recruitment might be about to change again. I wouldn't be surprised if we are signing Massengo, that we loan him to Kortrijk at some point this season. Although we've already done similar with Agyei last window.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Tresor will improve the team. This lad will need time you would think.

[Blyclaret]

I’m getting concerned. Another fancy Dan lightweight winger/midfielder close to signing. With glaring holes still left to be filled. Team looks very unbalanced.

[Ightenhill_Claret]

The thing with transfers is that performances at other clubs, largely, don't mean anything. There's so many variables as to why a player may or may not perform at a club - mental health, system being employed in, quality of teammates around them, quality of coaching etc.

There's many a player - the two I always think of are Roque Santa Cruz and Fernando Torres - who move to a club with a big reputation and don't perform and many a player who leave relegated sides (Tom Heaton, Nick Pope, JBG to name just three) and, in the right environment, with the right coaching and the right players around them, go on and become brilliant for the club they signed with.

Of course we're going to debate whether we think someone is good enough or not (what would we do if we couldn't do that? ) but the ultimate trust has to be in the manager is convinced he can turn Player X or Player Y into a better footballer and get the absolute best out of him for this club.

[Colburn_Claret]

We’ve clearly signed some young, exciting that’s a welcome change from how we used to operate. But the number one priority this season has to be to remain in this division and building on the amazing job that Vinny has done so far. Also bearing in mind that he won’t be here forever and will be difficult to replace.

My concern at the moment relates to a comment which was stressed by Vinny a few times in the recent documentary. He said that he believes his methods take over 100 coaching sessions and meetings before players start to excel in these systems. So it seems naive to me that we would start 6 players against Villa who won’t be close to that number.

We know how difficult results will be this season and we’ve played two of the best teams in the division, so it’s certainly not time to panic. But we seem to be lacking experience of both Vinny’s complex style of play and of Premier League football - in fact of our starting eleven on Sunday only Roberts and Berge have any PL experience (unless you count Cullen’s two PL appearances for West Ham).

I think there could be a more balanced approach to team selection and I’m also slightly worried whether we should have taken a more balanced approach to our transfer policy this season. The next few days are probably critical to our season. Both full back positions particularly are a concern for me.

I understand what you mean, but you're wrong.

I look on it like learning to drive. At first your mind is going nonstop. You make mistakes, hit the wrong gear, break too hard, don't leave enough room etc.
After time you do all those things without thinking about it. Muscle memory takes over, and driving becomes a pleasure.

You only have to look at the parallels with last season. We looked great against Huddersfield, but we weren't a patch on the team we became after 10 games. We made mistakes, individually and as a team, and paid the price a few times, but VK knew making those mistakes, and taking the hit, was all a necessary part of the process.
This team has to learn, just as last seasons did, we will be a far better team after 10 games, and the hits will have been worth it.

To go back to the original analogy, you don't teach someone to drive by taking the car off them after every mistake, and giving them a bike. Trust the process, trust VK, and back the players to learn. We all want to see the Clarets kick on, but it will need patience from all of us.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I’m getting concerned. Another fancy Dan lightweight winger/midfielder close to signing. With glaring holes still left to be filled. Team looks very unbalanced.

I'll correct you. A fancy Dan with 24 assists and 8 goals last year. People moaning about a left back and the one they want to sign can't defend apparently.... Not you specifically BTW.

[CoolClaret]

The thing with transfers is that performances at other clubs, largely, don't mean anything. There's so many variables as to why a player may or may not perform at a club - mental health, system being employed in, quality of teammates around them, quality of coaching etc.

There's many a player - the two I always think of are Roque Santa Cruz and Fernando Torres - who move to a club with a big reputation and don't perform and many a player who leave relegated sides (Tom Heaton, Nick Pope, JBG to name just three) and, in the right environment, with the right coaching and the right players around them, go on and become brilliant for the club they signed with.

Of course we're going to debate whether we think someone is good enough or not (what would we do if we couldn't do that? ) but the ultimate trust has to be in the manager is convinced he can turn Player X or Player Y into a better footballer and get the absolute best out of him for this club.

JBG had two standout years in the Championship, was a young contributor for AZ in the Eredivise (few finishes around 3rd ish) played in Europe and was also a starter for Iceland.

Popey was highly rated by Charlton fans and even still didn’t come in until injury hit and he had been with us for a while.

Heaton was pretty genius by Dyche and co - was signed whilst we were in effect a mid table champ club like

[summitclaret]

Fair enough Ightenhill, but we have at least 2 gaps in the current starting 11 that need filling now. Maybe 1 if Brownhill is staying or if we were to try Beyer in front of the back 4 in a 4141.

[jojomk1]

I’m getting concerned. Another fancy Dan lightweight winger/midfielder close to signing. With glaring holes still left to be filled. Team looks very unbalanced.

You and many others

[quoonbeatz]

The thing with transfers is that performances at other clubs, largely, don't mean anything. There's so many variables as to why a player may or may not perform at a club - mental health, system being employed in, quality of teammates around them, quality of coaching etc.

There's many a player - the two I always think of are Roque Santa Cruz and Fernando Torres - who move to a club with a big reputation and don't perform and many a player who leave relegated sides (Tom Heaton, Nick Pope, JBG to name just three) and, in the right environment, with the right coaching and the right players around them, go on and become brilliant for the club they signed with.

Of course we're going to debate whether we think someone is good enough or not (what would we do if we couldn't do that? ) but the ultimate trust has to be in the manager is convinced he can turn Player X or Player Y into a better footballer and get the absolute best out of him for this club.

Wrong thread my friend, this one is for people who think the success of a football team depends on the players' stats on FIFA.

[Oldparkwood]

Any rumours or am I on the wrong thread?

[Rileybobs]

I understand what you mean, but you're wrong.

I look on it like learning to drive. At first your mind is going nonstop. You make mistakes, hit the wrong gear, break too hard, don't leave enough room etc.
After time you do all those things without thinking about it. Muscle memory takes over, and driving becomes a pleasure.

You only have to look at the parallels with last season. We looked great against Huddersfield, but we weren't a patch on the team we became after 10 games. We made mistakes, individually and as a team, and paid the price a few times, but VK knew making those mistakes, and taking the hit, was all a necessary part of the process.
This team has to learn, just as last seasons did, we will be a far better team after 10 games, and the hits will have been worth it.

To go back to the original analogy, you don't teach someone to drive by taking the car off them after every mistake, and giving them a bike. Trust the process, trust VK, and back the players to learn. We all want to see the Clarets kick on, but it will need patience from all of us.

You think I’m wrong.

I think your driving lesson analogy is wrong, because you’re applying that situation to individuals within a team. But playing on that analogy, if you started a new taxi company with 11 cars, you wouldn’t employ 6 learner drivers.

[burnley007]

Any rumours or am I on the wrong thread?

This is the 'Pointless Argument' thread.

Where people desperately debate utter drivel.

[Rileybobs]

Any rumours or am I on the wrong thread?

Yea, this is the thread allowing discussion as well as rumours. The thread you’re looking for wasn’t very popular and seems to have disappeared from view, probably because not many people come on here to read a series of links to newspaper articles without being able to discuss around them. I’m sure you could do a search and look for it rather than clogging up the discussion thread though.

[northernpowerhouse]

I'll correct you. A fancy Dan with 24 assists and 8 goals last year.

24 assists? I don't care what level you're playing at that's insane. Sounds like a superstar.

[Blyclaret]

I wasent talking about Trésor.

[Oldparkwood]

Yea, this is the thread allowing discussion as well as rumours. The thread you’re looking for wasn’t very popular and seems to have disappeared from view, probably because not many people come on here to read a series of links to newspaper articles without being able to discuss around them. I’m sure you could do a search and look for it rather than clogging up the discussion thread though.

Discussion on what??? Drivel

[Rileybobs]

Discussion on what??? Drivel

Discussion around the transfer window - I t’s in the thread title. I think if you’re accusing others of talking drive then you should consider what your posts are adding to this thread.

[Oldparkwood]

Discussion around the transfer window - I t’s in the thread title. I think if you’re accusing others of talking drive then you should consider what your posts are adding to this thread.

I suggest you read the majority of this thread and find out for yourself that 80% of it is actually nothing but drivel and nothing to do transfers

[Rileybobs]

I suggest you read the majority of this thread and find out for yourself that 80% of it is actually nothing but drivel and nothing to do transfers

Transfer window not transfers. It’s really easy to understand. This isn’t your personal space where you get to decide what people can and can’t discuss.

[gandhisflipflop]

It is tedious when you have a 10 min break at work and you’re scrolling through pages of nonsense to get to posts that actually update you.

[Rileybobs]

It is tedious when you have a 10 min break at work and you’re scrolling through pages of nonsense to get to posts that actually update you.

But nobody is making you read this thread. Like I said, there’s another thread dedicated to just transfer links and no discussion - so just read that one instead.