The King’s Coronation Message

[yTib]

conflating the royal family with the nhs is like conflating brexit with the second world war. pointless and silly.

[CoolClaret]

I have had private healthcare ever since a family passed away due to how long they had to wait for treatment.

Best decision I ever made. I can be seen straight away in a top facility and have absolutely no hassle.

You think that private health care would mean jack **** if you got into a wreck and needed emergency treatment? You’d be going to the nearest A&E

What about the rest of the populace, just f them?

You can have private health care whilst simultaneously agreeing that we should have a better public health care system.

[CoolClaret]

conflating the royal family with the nhs is like conflating brexit with the second world war. pointless and silly.

I agree tbh, but this thread is revealing that those that seem to be keen on the monarchy also seem to be proponents of Tufton Street ideals…

[yTib]

I agree tbh, but this thread is revealing that those that seem to be keen on the monarchy also seem to be proponents of Tufton Street ideals…

well i'm no ragged trousered philanthropist; i've always been a socialist at heart.

i just think the monarchy debate is a silly distraction from more substantive issues.

it annoys me when folk look at trivial matters and see them as quick-fix solutions to the problems of society. the monarchy/republic question is just below fox hunting for me on my list of 'grow the fukc up and debate about something real' topics.

[Somethingfishy]

Which will result in more tax and a continually crap service.

The whole of the nhs needs completely re structuring. It’s a complete mess from top to bottom.

Spot on. It's been restructured and tampered with that much it has become a shambles. It needs stopping and totally re-starting/re-imagining. Too many on the gravy train in pen pushing nonsense roles. Needs getting back to basics and money going to the front line. Throwing more money at it is pointless. Most will end up in the pockets of needless middle management leeches.

The royal family generates more money than it receives. Money that goes into the treasury coffers. I find it remarkable that republicans still beat the cost drum. Will a president not want paying? The NHS p*sses it up the wall and yet the sheep still cry "more..we need more"

[CoolClaret]

Spot on. It's been restructured and tampered with that much it has become a shambles. It needs stopping and totally re-starting/re-imagining. Too many on the gravy train in pen pushing nonsense roles. Needs getting back to basics and money going to the front line. Throwing more money at it is pointless. Most will end up in the pockets of needless middle management leeches.

The royal family generates more money than it receives. Money that goes into the treasury coffers. I find it remarkable that republicans still beat the cost drum. Will a president not want paying? The NHS p*sses it up the wall and yet the sheep still cry "more..we need more"

It really doesn’t.

Again, the palace of Versailles has more visitors than any royal monument in the UK.

Open them up and charge £10 a head for entry - now that would generate revenue.

The absolute irony of your statements when we have a frigging royal family with a net worth well over a billion.

Yes the President would need paying - just like the Prime Minister does, you dullard

[yTib]

It really doesn’t.

Again, the palace of Versailles has more visitors than any royal monument in the UK.

Open them up and charge £10 a head for entry - now that would generate revenue.

The absolute irony of your statements when we have a frigging royal family with a net worth well over a billion.

Yes the President would need paying - just like the Prime Minister does, you dullard

palace of versailles is but one attraction. the uk has dozens of royal attractions. i once went to a wedding in the highlands and balmoral was rammed.

nobody really knows if the royal family make a net gain or loss financially but i'm guessing on the former.

the political/soft-power benefits are, ironically, more tangible. it's a definite net gain and the amount of foreign leaders and dignitaries who showed up today is a testament to that.

[Somethingfishy]

It really doesn’t.

Again, the palace of Versailles has more visitors than any royal monument in the UK.

Open them up and charge £10 a head for entry - now that would generate revenue.

The absolute irony of your statements when we have a frigging royal family with a net worth well over a billion.

Yes the President would need paying - just like the Prime Minister does, you dullard

I know I've won the argument when name calling begins

You do realise we would have both don't you?? France has a Prime Minister. It's not just Macron. That is twice the cost it is now if you can work that out...eh thicko?

[Bosscat]

This really is a thread

[CoolClaret]

I know I've won the argument when name calling begins

You do realise we would have both don't you?? France has a Prime Minister. It's not just Macron. That is twice the cost it is now if you can work that out...eh thicko?

Well it depends on how Government was structured.

It wouldn’t be a salary/annual budget given by birthright that’s for sure

Again, it’s not even about the money for me really.

It’s what it symbolises and I think that - class, aristocracy, privilege is utter ********

[yTib]

It’s what it symbolises and I think that - class, aristocracy, privilege is utter ********

i reckon this is the only part of your argument that has any substance.

but you are privileged compared to any one of your neighbours. is it fair that you happened to have more or less money/intelligence/hair than your neighbour?

life's too short to worry about such trivialities. i used to get terribly angry about crap like that but i blame my mum who was a shop steward at mullards.

like i said, go outside and pick some litter up (not now, it's dark).

[Duffer_]

If hereditary privelege is deemed to be the best solution for determining our head of state, why aren't more positions filled in this way?

How successful do you think Burnley FC would be if the team was selected on the basis of hereditary privelege? It's a sh1t idea, isn't it?

If the monarchy serves a meaningful purpose, why not have the best person for the job fulfilling the duties, whatever they may be? If it doesn't serve a meaningful purpose, why perpetuate it?

[CoolClaret]

i reckon this is the only part of your argument that has any substance.

but you are privileged compared to any one of your neighbours. is it fair that you happened to have more or less money/intelligence/hair than your neighbour?

life's too short to worry about such trivialities. i used to get terribly angry about crap like that but i blame my mum who was a shop steward at mullards.

like i said, go outside and pick some litter up (not now, it's dark).

I agree with and don’t normally love debating like this online for reasons you mentioned.

Elitism, royalism & the faux patriotism of it all just really pisses me off

One love

[Jakubclaret]

conflating the royal family with the nhs is like conflating brexit with the second world war. pointless and silly.

That's not entirely true, it's been thoroughly researched & dare I say well documented by clandestine quarters that Merkel's ideology wasn't so far away from the waffen SS & some assumed that a Ribbentrop style pact would have eventually been on the horizon, founded or unfounded we'll never know thankfully we left.

[yTib]

That's not entirely true, it's been thoroughly researched & dare I say well documented by clandestine quarters that Merkel's ideology wasn't so far away from the waffen SS & some assumed that a Ribbentrop style pact would have eventually been on the horizon, founded or unfounded we'll never know thankfully we left.

jesus wept.

[Jakubclaret]

jesus wept.

Thanks for the articulated response.

[yTib]

Thanks for the articulated response.

thanks for reminding me how lucky i am.

[Jakubclaret]

thanks for reminding me how lucky i am.

Or to flip how unlucky you could have been.

[TsarBomba]

This has got potential to be a real hall of fame thread..

Aaaaaaand the NHS is an absolute shambles and needs completely restructuring, as does pretty much every public service..

[Duffer_]

Aaaaaaand the NHS is an absolute shambles and needs completely restructuring, as does pretty much every public service..

I would definitely say that the predatory Met Police needs fundamental reform. Some public services need more resources, whereas some just need better people.

[TsarBomba]

I would definitely say that the predatory Met Police needs fundamental reform. Some public services need more resources, whereas some just need better people.

I’m not getting in to this here and now.

Anyone who has seen my posts over the years will know how much I desire change within the Met on many different levels.

Did you know you are twice as likely to be promoted within the NHS if you are white, compared to BAME?

Have you seen the accusations and reports of institutional sexism and misogyny in the fire service recently?

I see gross negligence within the NHS on a daily/weekly basis that if I was to see in the Police, or commit myself, would see me out of job, if not investigated criminally.

[dsr]

If hereditary privelege is deemed to be the best solution for determining our head of state, why aren't more positions filled in this way?

How successful do you think Burnley FC would be if the team was selected on the basis of hereditary privelege? It's a [deleted] idea, isn't it?

If the monarchy serves a meaningful purpose, why not have the best person for the job fulfilling the duties, whatever they may be? If it doesn't serve a meaningful purpose, why perpetuate it?

Could you give some suggestions as to how we select the best person to be commander in chief of the armed forces?

How we select the best person to be the person the Prime Minister has to answer to?

The best person who can be trusted to deal fairly and impartially with parliament?

The problem with selecting the "best person" is that somebody has to do it, and by definition they must be inferior to the "best person" and they might therefore get it wrong. Then where are we. Jodie Taylor put it very well in one of her St Mary's time travel books, that the beauty of the English system is that all the power (over the police, the army, the courts, the legislature) is vested in the person of someone who can't use it.

If you have any workable suggestions as to what would be a better system, one that creates more stability, one that would historically have given us a better country than we have now - then by all means let's hear it. But if all you have, and you wouldn't be alone in this, is the feeling that this needs to go simply because it needs to go and there is no need to worry how the government will work, then I'm frankly not interested. To use your Burnley analogy, it would be like sacking the board of directors and then working out who is going to run the club.

[dsr]

It astounds me folk - especially from the North, given the sacrifices of our fathers/grandfathers and ancestors for millennia sent to their deaths to fight wars for self-righteous 'Monarchs' can look at today and be anything other than disgusted.

This summarises a lot of the problem in modern politics, and incidentally the reason why political threads on this board are banned. So many people (especially on the left of politics, I have to say) have the idea that their own views are right in the same way that 1+1=2 is right, and they cannot understand anyone disagreeing with them. It was oft heard in the Brexit debate - many (obviously not all) remain-voters attitude could be summed up by "I am right and you are stupid".

We don't have to agree with the other person's point of view, but we need to accept that he has the right to have it.

(And if you think that wars can be stopped by redefining the head of state as a non-monarch, then you haven't been paying much attention to what goes on in Ukraine.)

[CoolClaret]

This summarises a lot of the problem in modern politics, and incidentally the reason why political threads on this board are banned. So many people (especially on the left of politics, I have to say) have the idea that their own views are right in the same way that 1+1=2 is right, and they cannot understand anyone disagreeing with them. It was oft heard in the Brexit debate - many (obviously not all) remain-voters attitude could be summed up by "I am right and you are stupid".

We don't have to agree with the other person's point of view, but we need to accept that he has the right to have it.

(And if you think that wars can be stopped by redefining the head of state as a non-monarch, then you haven't been paying much attention to what goes on in Ukraine.)

Not really - we have tangible, hard objective evidence as to the outcome of Brexit and what it has done for the UK as well as thirteen years of Tory rule that have soared levels of inequality that are quite frankly, disgusting for a supposed wealthy, first world country.

Not sure what point you were trying to make re: Ukraine - defending your land and people against an aggressor is vastly different, to being used as cannon fodder for years for the 'Elites'

It doesn't take a genius to figure out the North has been shat on by the elites/aristocracy/upper classes in the country for a very, very long time.... I'm of the opinion that continuing to legitimise these age old institutions and all the razzmatazz around it perpetuates classism

[Corky]

Spot on. It's been restructured and tampered with that much it has become a shambles. It needs stopping and totally re-starting/re-imagining. Too many on the gravy train in pen pushing nonsense roles. Needs getting back to basics and money going to the front line. Throwing more money at it is pointless. Most will end up in the pockets of needless middle management leeches.

The royal family generates more money than it receives. Money that goes into the treasury coffers. I find it remarkable that republicans still beat the cost drum. Will a president not want paying? The NHS p*sses it up the wall and yet the sheep still cry "more..we need more"

Curious how does the royal family generate more money than it receives?

[Robbie_painter]

A thread completely ruined by the left - again.

[AmbleClaret]

A thread completely ruined by the left - again.

A thread where people have a different opinion to you and some others, how dare they.

[claptrappers_union]

If you say so.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/footb ... i-27962667

You've just backed up your point with the Daily Star...

[Billy Balfour]

He might have been squirming at the sponsorship. I doubt he cares much for football, given he's rarely at our national stadium, unlike William.

[claret2018]

From the couple of minutes I saw on tv yesterday it looked like exactly the same boring charade as any royal wedding, funeral or jubilee.

I dread to think how much money the country has spaffed on events like these in the last few years.

[Billy Balfour]

A thread where people have a different opinion to you and some others, how dare they.

Nah, best to get the police to lock 'em up. Like they did with those very dangerous Westminster city council Night Stars the other day.

Council ‘deeply concerned’ by reports of volunteers arrested on coronation day

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/c ... 34184.html

[Billy Balfour]

To be honest, I've always been indifferent towards this kind of stuff, but recent events are changing my opinion. The 'shouting down' by certain people and section of the media, towards those not fully signed-up to the cause, is way OTT. I also find it against our values as a nation. You can be either a republican or a monarchist. Whichever one it is, it doesn't make you less British or English.

I wonder just how fragile the whole system, and some people, are when we see some of the reactions. The right to peacefully protest is the backbone of our democracy. Do away with this, and you are heading for what Russia has become.

[JohnMac]

Be **** easy to run the NHS if they had that equivalent budget

The NHS budget is sufficient, it's the idiots running it that spend the majority of it on non-medical stuff.

People were better cared for when it was more about the care rather than the administration.

[Burnley Ace]

How successful do you think Burnley FC would be if the team was selected on the basis of hereditary privelege? It's a sh1t idea, isn't it?

Without doing any looking up I would start with schmeichal in goal, Jack Cork in Midfield and Harlan’s up front with Macallistet (Brighton). Wright- Philips, Tyrese Campbell, Jodi Cryff and Zidanes lad. lNot sure if there would be a place for David Miller or Chris Casper

[Benson]

To be honest, I've always been indifferent towards this kind of stuff, but recent events are changing my opinion. The 'shouting down' by certain people and section of the media, towards those not fully signed-up to the cause, is way OTT. I also find it against our values as a nation. You can be either a republican or a monarchist. Whichever one it is, it doesn't make you less British or English.

I wonder just how fragile the whole system, and some people, are when we see some of the reactions. The right to peacefully protest is the backbone of our democracy. Do away with this, and you are heading for what Russia has become.

As is the right to enjoy an event without having it ruined by a vociferous minority.

[JohnMcGreal]

This summarises a lot of the problem in modern politics, and incidentally the reason why political threads on this board are banned. So many people (especially on the left of politics, I have to say) have the idea that their own views are right in the same way that 1+1=2 is right, and they cannot understand anyone disagreeing with them. It was oft heard in the Brexit debate - many (obviously not all) remain-voters attitude could be summed up by "I am right and you are stupid".

I mean....they were right, weren't they?

That's not to say the people who voted to leave are stupid. It was just a huge national error that set the country on the path of political and economic chaos leading to a terminal national decline.

Which is why polling has consistently shown that the majority of people think it was a mistake, with just a third of people thinking it was the right thing to do.

Probably the same third who were cheering on Charles being made chief wizard yesterday.

[Billy Balfour]

As is the right to enjoy an event without having it ruined by a vociferous minority.

Ruined? A massive state occasion like the one we saw yesterday ruined by a tiny bunch of noisy demonstrators? By heck, we really have become a paranoid country. On second thoughts, best to crush them with an iron fist, just in case they upset someone.

[Lancasterclaret]

I guess if I'd been wrong every single time on a politics thread I'd want them banned as well

[Benson]

On second thoughts, best to crush them with an iron fist, just in case they upset someone.

Now you’re talking, I knew you’d come round to my way of thinking

[Billy Balfour]

Well, it's best to lock everyone up, before they do something. Just in case.

[Exeterclaret]

As is the right to enjoy an event without having it ruined by a vociferous minority.

Ladies and gentlemen we've got a fascist.

[Lancasterclaret]

It is so, so worrying that people are now happy to actually post fascist stuff on messageboards without a care in the world

[Benson]

Ladies and gentlemen we've got a fascist.

Ladies and gentlemen we have a knt.

[Benson]

It is so, so worrying that people are now happy to actually post fascist stuff on messageboards without a care in the world

and another

[Robbie_painter]

and another

Be careful you wouldn’t want adding to his dreaded ‘foe list’

[RVclaret]

I mean....they were right, weren't they?

That's not to say the people who voted to leave are stupid. It was just a huge national error that set the country on the path of political and economic chaos leading to a terminal national decline.

Which is why polling has consistently shown that the majority of people think it was a mistake, with just a third of people thinking it was the right thing to do.

Probably the same third who were cheering on Charles being made chief wizard yesterday.

Too early to say who was right or wrong. Things take time and 3 months after it was officially confirmed, we had 2 years of Covid, followed by the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It's just simply impossible to judge at this stage due to both those factors. Anyone expecting the UK to suddenly have a boom and take over the world post Brexit were obviously wrong, but those who predicted doom and gloom like London not being the finance capital anymore were also wrong. Probably need to revisit in 5-10 years once the world is (hopefully) back on it's feet.

[Duffer_]

The problem with selecting the "best person" is that somebody has to do it, and by definition they must be inferior to the "best person" and they might therefore get it wrong. Then where are we. Jodie Taylor put it very well in one of her St Mary's time travel books, that the beauty of the English system is that all the power (over the police, the army, the courts, the legislature) is vested in the person of someone who can't use it.

Somebody or some body and that body should be the electorate. I assume you mean Jodi Taylor, not the Arsenal and England footballer. I'm not familiar with her work but I struggle with the idea that power has been locked away in some kind of social contract. If there is no power, there is no point in their existence. If there is power then it is capable of being exercised. As a democrat, I am uncomfortable relying on the judgement of those benefiting from hereditary privilege.

[Benson]

Be careful you wouldn’t want adding to his dreaded ‘foe list’

Trembling at the mere thought

[Here's-Johnny]

This really is a thread

A lot of old men Bickering as usual...

[timshorts]

I thought it was one of the best bits of TV yesterday. The coronation part of it, not so much the formation walking afterwards, which I'm guessing is where a lot of the money went.

Better than watching the Scousers win

Better than watching a succession of tory faithful banging on about the "people's priorities" instead of admitting some of their own deficiencies.

I mean, they all seem to have learnt that long sentence by heart, and haven't worked out that it doesn't fit on a bus, or roll off the tongue of the masses in weatherspoons as its got way more than three words. Besides, if you are going to list a paragraph of uk popularist priorities, shouldn't "scrap var" be on there somewhere? Maybe "stop diving" too.