Weghorst

[andyh]

What evidence?

I think he was using guesstimated transfer fee as his estimate… but I think age would mean he wasn’t the highest.

[daveisaclaret]

Well of course it is subjective, but the evidence points to him being our best centre forward. If all three were transfer listed today I would be very confident that WW would attract the biggest fee and end up playing at the highest level.

It is fun to see you invent different ways to pretend he's our best centre forward without being able to mention he's cack. Interestingly the headline fee of 12 million quid was the same for Foster and Weghorst so it'll be interesting to know if you think being a national embarrassment at Old Trafford has increased Weghorst's fee or if you've just decided Foster is worth less after 11 games.

[taio]

Well of course it is subjective, but the evidence points to him being our best centre forward. If all three were transfer listed today I would be very confident that WW would attract the biggest fee and end up playing at the highest level.

Rodriguez is nearly 34 with just a year left on his contract so obviously would be a minimal fee. But these hypothetical scenarios are irrelevant. The reality is that Weghorst comes in for more criticism for wider issues than just ability.

[ClaretTony]

Yes I can see why people have turned against him but I find this has led to some ridiculously unfair and unsubstantiated criticism of him - such as being a ‘proper bad player’.

The public spat with Roberts seemed to be very much initiated by Roberts himself - although this in itself may suggest WW isn’t popular among the group.

I agree that I would also be more than happy to see him go, with the caveat that we would need to spend a decent fee to bring in a replacement and hopefully an upgrade in that position.

I honestly thought, in the main, he was awful for us and not surprised when Michael Jackson finally made the decision to drop him for the final few games.

[Rileybobs]

What evidence?

The evidence being a player who represents the Netherlands, who recently scored two goals in a World Cup semi final. A player who has been selected to play consistently for Man Utd by one of the top coaches in Europe. A player who has a very good goalscoring record in the Bundesliga.

Now he may not be up to Premier League standard, certainly as a goalscorer, but I think it would be harder to provide evidence to suggest Rodriguez or Foster are better players.

[Rileybobs]

It is fun to see you invent different ways to pretend he's our best centre forward without being able to mention he's cack. Interestingly the headline fee of 12 million quid was the same for Foster and Weghorst so it'll be interesting to know if you think being a national embarrassment at Old Trafford has increased Weghorst's fee or if you've just decided Foster is worth less after 11 games.

We disagree, that’s fine. As I said, it’s quite pointless having a discussion with you if your view is that WW is ‘a proper bad footballer’ and ‘cack’.

[Tricky Trevor]

Some blinkered comments on here many reading like the view was formed by him leaving so he could play in the World Cup.
Ten Haag wouldn't have selected him repeatedly unless he was doing something right.
His chasing back and ball winning was excellent, his hold up play and feeding team mates was excellent. His positional play in the box was decent but many times he wasn’t given the ball when he was the obvious choice and then when he was he fluffed the chance.
He is far better than many rate him. He needs to get lucky and have a couple ebound of his knee or his arse and he’d be away.
Whether it’s with us I’m not sure but there is no need for the abuse he is getting on here.

[Rileybobs]

Rodriguez is nearly 34 with just a year left on his contract so obviously would be a minimal fee. But these hypothetical scenarios are irrelevant. The reality is that Weghorst comes in for more criticism for wider issues than just ability.

Yes, and Rodriguez’s ability as a centre forward has also decreased in line with his age, and therefore value. I could put it another way, if each player was a free agent I would be confident that WW would be playing at the highest level next season.

And I agree with your final sentence, but I would expand on that to say that the reality is that Weghorst comes in for unjust and exaggerated criticism for wider issues than just ability.

[taio]

Yes, and Rodriguez’s ability as a centre forward has also decreased in line with his age, and therefore value. I could put it another way, if each player was a free agent I would be confident that WW would be playing at the highest level next season.

And I agree with your final sentence, but I would expand on that to say that the reality is that Weghorst comes in for unjust and exaggerated criticism for wider issues than just ability.

How do you know Luton wouldn't be prepared to give Rodriguez a year's contract and pay him based on appearances? Hypothetical I know, but so is your scenario.

[Jakubclaret]

It's a shame really if WW doesn't kick on here or elsewhere we'll get the blame for ruining him, because he must have showed promise & form for us to sign him & since that point he's done nothing &: he's had the opportunities. He's pretty much gone downhill since VFL W although you could argue the league here is of a higher standard.

[Clive 1960]

I think the boat as sailed with Weghorst and we have to move him on sooner rather than later if we can.

[Rileybobs]

How do you know Luton wouldn't be prepared to give Rodriguez a year's contract and pay him based on appearances? Hypothetical I know, but so is your scenario.

Well I don’t know obviously. That’s why I said I’d be confident that WW would be playing at the highest level. I really don’t think anything I’ve said is too controversial, yet my opinion has being challenged by numerous posters yet the claim that WW is a proper bad footballer doesn’t seem to have been disputed by anyone than myself. And in a nutshell I think that in itself proves my point about people letting emotion cloud their judgement of the player.

[taio]

Well I don’t know obviously. That’s why I said I’d be confident that WW would be playing at the highest level. I really don’t think anything I’ve said is too controversial, yet my opinion has being challenged by numerous posters yet the claim that WW is a proper bad footballer doesn’t seem to have been disputed by anyone than myself. And in a nutshell I think that in itself proves my point about people letting emotion cloud their judgement of the player.

Yes, me and others have said judgements are being made on more than just his ability alone, which is understandable because, for example, how he would reintegrate with our squad would be very important.

[ClaretTony]

The evidence being a player who represents the Netherlands, who recently scored two goals in a World Cup semi final. A player who has been selected to play consistently for Man Utd by one of the top coaches in Europe. A player who has a very good goalscoring record in the Bundesliga.

Now he may not be up to Premier League standard, certainly as a goalscorer, but I think it would be harder to provide evidence to suggest Rodriguez or Foster are better players.

I saw what I saw when he played for us and that's how I judge him. Apart from a game and a half, I thought he was dreadful for us.

[Hedontplayforyou]

Turkey or Saudi to be a likely destination for him?

I don’t want to see him play for us again.

[Cooclaret]

How do you know Luton wouldn't be prepared to give Rodriguez a year's contract and pay him based on appearances? Hypothetical I know, but so is your scenario.

How many international caps do each player have?

How many international goals does each player have?

How international tournaments have each been too?

How many top flight appearances (Europe's top leagues) dies each have?

The debate is ridiculous. WW is a superior player to JR

[Cooclaret]

I saw what I saw when he played for us and that's how I judge him. Apart from a game and a half, I thought he was dreadful for us.

The team were awful, the game plan was pragmatic, but awful.

IMO, It’s blinkered to judge a player dropped into a sinking ship, in a different country, who’s asked to play football in a manner that’s new and would take time to learn.

The bias of a number of the posters on here is clearly visible. It’s bordering on ludicrous.

[Darthlaw]

a few things need clearing up about WW

The myth of him not wanting to play for Burnley.
The player was told by Van Gaal that to retain his WC place he would need to be playing top tier football. When he signed this was agreed with the board that he could leave, should we be relegated, to keep his place in the Netherlands squad for the World Cup. No ‘I’m too good for Burnley’, no ‘I’m too good for the Championship’ (although the Jury is most definitely out on that) just that he wanted to play at a World Cup. If fans want someone to sulk at, sulk at Louis Van Gaal.

His consistent selection for Man U.
WW was signed by a Man U who did not want to spend any serious money but needed cover for an injury prone Martial. Sure enough, within two weeks of his arrival, Martial was injured and WW took his starting berth. During this period, Man U’s attack was often nullified due to Weghorst poor attacking positioning and often within minutes of his substitution Man U would go on to score goals. Nevertheless, once Martial returned, he was promptly benched again and towards the end of the season was not restored to the first XI even when Martial was injured again.

Aerial ability
Anyone with eyes has seen his stunning x-men ability to shrink by 6 inches when the ball is crossed in his direction. Nevertheless there are those that still think he could ‘do a job as a target man’. Hopefully those are the folks placing their bids for him.

Movement
I had the displeasure of taking customers to Man U in corporate for around 4 games after Xmas this year and I have to say it became apparent quite how bad WW’s positioning is in attacking positions. Often placed behind a defender or just straight nowhere near the box seemed to be the case more than not, which no doubt contributed to him scoring 2 goals in his Man U career. The myth of Man U players not passing to him is only there because he never got himself in dangerous positions to pass to.

He’s crap.
Well clearly he isn’t thanks to his scoring record in Germany. That said, Wolfsburg let him go for a reason. He isn’t the first player to have done well in Germany, only to struggle in the PL and he certainly won’t be the last. It Could have been £47m spunked on Timo Werner, after all.

[daveisaclaret]

The team were awful, the game plan was pragmatic, but awful.

IMO, It’s blinkered to judge a player dropped into a sinking ship, in a different country, who’s asked to play football in a manner that’s new and would take time to learn.

The bias of a number of the posters on here is clearly visible. It’s bordering on ludicrous.

We can also judge him on when he was dropped into one of the best teams in the country and was just as awful, though

[ClaretTony]

How many international caps do each player have?

How many international goals does each player have?

How international tournaments have each been too?

How many top flight appearances (Europe's top leagues) dies each have?

The debate is ridiculous. WW is a superior player to JR

And which of them suffered a serious injury that ruled him out of a World Cup?

[PremierLeagueClass]

There is an incredible amount of bias when it comes to Weghorst. He was poor for us at times, but at others he was good. Certainly no worse than Wood was that season (arguably better).

[Cooclaret]

We can also judge him on when he was dropped into one of the best teams in the country and was just as awful, though

He was so awful that he was constantly picked by ETH.

He was so awful that a lot of the fan base (Source: Twitter) values his work rate, link up play.

[randomclaret2]

How many international caps do each player have?

How many international goals does each player have?

How international tournaments have each been too?

How many top flight appearances (Europe's top leagues) dies each have?

The debate is ridiculous. WW is a superior player to JR

Jay has 1 England cap. If WW were English would he have been capped ?

[daveisaclaret]

He was so awful that he was constantly picked by ETH.

He was so awful that a lot of the fan base (Source: Twitter) values his work rate, link up play.

He was dropped as soon as someone else was available.

It's proper weird that people think him getting picked for Manchester United is more relevant than him being utterly dreadful for them.

[taio]

How many international caps do each player have?

How many international goals does each player have?

How international tournaments have each been too?

How many top flight appearances (Europe's top leagues) dies each have?

The debate is ridiculous. WW is a superior player to JR

You can look-up the answers to those questions easily if you wish. Some people on here will judge Weghorst on his time here taking into both performances and his fit with the club and squad.

[ClaretTony]

Jay has 1 England cap. If WW were English would he have been capped ?

I very much doubt he would and Jay would have had more but for the medical issues. Interestingly, Vincent Kompany said in an interview last season that Jay would have played for a top six club but for that injury and illness. VK clearly, clearly rates him highly. Michael Jackson, eventually, preferred Ashley Barnes to Weghorst.

[Cooclaret]

And which of them suffered a serious injury that ruled him out of a World Cup?

And after recovering from that injury, was he picked again?

He wasn’t, so are you saying he wasn’t picked because he’s was a lesser player because of the injury?

Therefore, WW is a superior player.

Your argument, if I’m right, is that JR would’ve been a better player if he didn’t get injured, therefore, WW is not as good as JR currently?

Facts don’t lie. WW has had a better career than JR and is a better player.

As a side note, didn’t JR play on the left wing for England?

[taio]

He was so awful that he was constantly picked by ETH.

He was so awful that a lot of the fan base (Source: Twitter) values his work rate, link up play.

The vast majority of stuff I read suggested more of their fans thought he was nowhere near good enough. If he wad really valued by their manager they would be looking to keep him there. I saw him multiple times for Man Utd and he was out of place there.

[Cooclaret]

You can look-up the answers to those questions easily if you wish. Some people on here will judge Weghorst on his time here taking into both performances and his fit with the club and squad.

I agree, it’s fair to look at his performances. It’s also too fair to look at the environment he and others we asked to play in.

On the pitch had gone stale. Off the pitch was toxic.

[Cooclaret]

The vast majority of stuff I read suggested more of their fans thought he was nowhere near good enough. If he wad really valued by their manager they would be looking to keep him there. I saw him multiple times for Man Utd and he was out of place there.

He isn’t good enough for MU as a 9. That’s true.

But he was exceptional for them as a hybrid 10.

[Lancasterclaret]

The attitude issues are the only reason that anyone is arguing that he's not our best striker surely?

Jay isn't as good as he was when he was younger, Foster is untried, Obafemi is the same

Its self evident isn't it that WW is our best striker we have based on ability

[taio]

He isn’t good enough for MU as a 9. That’s true.

But he was exceptional for them as a hybrid 10.

No he wasn't exceptional at Man United. If he was anywhere near that level they'd be looking to sign him. They are not. Because he wasn't good enough for them. He filled a gap for a period of time and was then dropped.

[Cooclaret]

No he wasn't exceptional at Man United. If he was anywhere near that level they'd be looking to sign him. They are not. Because he wasn't good enough for them. He filled a gap for a period of time and was then dropped.

That’s football, we disagree.

They have better options now, and in recruitment activities, I can agree on that.

[taio]

The attitude issues are the only reason that anyone is arguing that he's not our best striker surely?

Jay isn't as good as he was when he was younger, Foster is untried, Obafemi is the same

Its self evident isn't it that WW is our best striker we have based on ability

I would say that people in the main are judging based on his performances for us and his attitude which seems fair enough. We clearly need to strengthen up front and that's not just because of Weghorst.

[Lancasterclaret]

I would say that people in the main are judging based on his performances for us and his attitude which seems fair enough. We clearly need to strengthen up front and that's not just because of Weghorst.

Oh no doubt on that at all, but just being purely objective he's our best current striker

[Darthlaw]

Oh no doubt on that at all, but just being purely objective he's our best current striker

Which, in fairness, is more a statement on the quality of our strikers than a ringing endorsement of WW.

[Elizabeth]

Weghorst is not our best current striker but if some want to believe this, that's up to them.
Hopefully he will be shipped out in the next week or so.

[Lancasterclaret]

Which, in fairness, is more a statement on the quality of our strikers than a ringing endorsement of WW.

Absolutely

[Claret Toni]

He isn’t good enough for MU as a 9. That’s true.

But he was exceptional for them as a hybrid 10.

He was better as a 12

[Cooclaret]

He was better as a 12

ETH didn’t agree.

People falling off discussions is rather rewarding.

[Cooclaret]

Weghorst is not our best current striker but if some want to believe this, that's up to them.
Hopefully he will be shipped out in the next week or so.

Who is in your opinion?

Can you back up your statement with facts, or stats?

[Burtonwoodclaret]

We scored goals last season without many goals coming from Ash orJay. They played a similar role to that Weghorst played at United. I would imagine we would look very similar if we played Weghorst as a direct replacement for Ash.
However, I was very interested to watch an interview with Phil Foden before the Cup Final. He asked about the impact of Harland . He said city had been playing without a recognised striker and had been scoring goals,but when Harland came in and played like a traditional centre forward, there was always someone I or around the box to pass the ball to and more often than not he scored. We were playing much like city in the championship so perhaps what we need is a goal poaching no 9. I’m not sure Weghorst could fulfil that role. If so someone else would have to do the fetching and carrying role. Maybe that would mean Brownhill, for example , playing just behind the striker.

[Elizabeth]

He was so awful that he was constantly picked by ETH.

He was so awful that a lot of the fan base (Source: Twitter) values his work rate, link up play.

His work rate is no better than any current striker we have on our books so I think we can discount that one straight away.
That leaves us with his link up play which may be slightly better than two of our strikers yet to be given a proper chance and inferior to Rodriguez and also
I suspect Twine.
His goal scoring is so useless that a one legged Jay would be more dangerous and I firmly believe Twine will show him how to put the ball in the net.

[Cooclaret]

His work rate is no better than any current striker we have on our books so I think we can discount that one straight away.
That leaves us with his link up play which may be slightly better than two of our strikers yet to be given a proper chance and inferior to Rodriguez and also
I suspect Twine.
His goal scoring is so useless that a one legged Jay would be more dangerous and I firmly believe Twine will show him how to put the ball in the net.

So no you can’t.

Footballs all about opinions I guess

[Elizabeth]

So no you can’t.

Footballs all about opinions I guess

I can’t what ?

[Elizabeth]

Who is in your opinion?

Can you back up your statement with facts, or stats?

I think the way it goes is that if someone is challenging another opinion the onus is on them to support that challenge with facts. The alternative is to simply respect other opinions .
Additionally anyone who ever reads my posts will know exactly what I think of an over reliance on stats . Note I relate to using stats too much as I do myself look at stats eg goals scored

[dsr]

We scored goals last season without many goals coming from Ash orJay. They played a similar role to that Weghorst played at United. I would imagine we would look very similar if we played Weghorst as a direct replacement for Ash.
However, I was very interested to watch an interview with Phil Foden before the Cup Final. He asked about the impact of Harland . He said city had been playing without a recognised striker and had been scoring goals,but when Harland came in and played like a traditional centre forward, there was always someone I or around the box to pass the ball to and more often than not he scored. We were playing much like city in the championship so perhaps what we need is a goal poaching no 9. I’m not sure Weghorst could fulfil that role. If so someone else would have to do the fetching and carrying role. Maybe that would mean Brownhill, for example , playing just behind the striker.

Jay and Ash got 17 goals between them. Bearing in mind that it was either/or, not both at once, that's not bad.

[dsr]

There is an incredible amount of bias when it comes to Weghorst. He was poor for us at times, but at others he was good. Certainly no worse than Wood was that season (arguably better).

If we are offered a signing, be it Weghorst or anyone else, who it can be argued may be better than Wood was in his last season - then we don't want him. "Arguably better than Wood in his last season" is not good enough.

[alki claret]

Weghorst is a complete donkey look what a disastrous effect he had on Man United when they were forced to play him in their hour of need:-

Had to start 17 games because of Martials injury and how did this effect the team.

Well surprisingly they won 13 drew 3 and only lost 2 ... away to Arsenal and Liverpool

There best run of form since the Fergie years ... maybe more teams need to play a donkey or heaven's forbid maybe he isn't as shi** as a lot of the pundits on here reckon.

[iw1961]

I think he could do a decent job this year. He came into a very British side that were struggling, playing a brand of football very different to what he was used to in Germany. We now play an entirely different game, one I would suspect he would thrive in. We need a centre forward but we need someone to bring in the midfield and the wingers. He is exceptional with his feet and can pick a pass. I saw him play for united twice last season. His link up play was really good, he missed a sitter though, but then created space for Rashford to go through and score.
To be honest I don't care for a 25 goal centre forward I would much rather have those goals spread around. We have the players now that can do this. We are almost european now. We play in a way now that he would be highly effective.
My favourite Burnley player was Andy Cooke, worked selflessly for the team and Payts himself has said he wouldn't have scored as many as he did if it wasn't for Cooke.
As for his attitude, well if you think I want to see a player posting images on Insta with his Porsche smiling and happy after a 5-0 drubbing then join a circus, because Clowns are funny. I want it to hurt and I want to see those players who I contribute a teeny fraction towards their wages hurt too. The one thing I will never disagree with Dyche on, is that I demand 100%, nothing more, nothing less.
This season won't be as easy as some on here like to make out, I don't want platitudes I demand commitment, we'll get that from WW if he stays.
If he doesn't stay, good luck to him.