Ultra Processed Food

[Bosscat]

Bernard Matthews has a lot to answer for ... Turkey Twizzlers

[elwaclaret]

I’ll be honest I’m 69 years of age (male) and don’t know how to cook. My wife is often having a go at me for not making an effort to learn, she’s happy to teach me but I’ve really no interest. If I was suddenly on my own I know I’d end up eating junk. I’ll also add I did think last autumn about enrolling on an evening course but I’m a bit embarrassed that I can’t even cook an egg. Is there any hope for me?

You’ll be surprised how much you enjoy that, pretty soon even a disaster has you thinking… next time if I add this a that..

Sure there are ABC guides to follow on You-tube, whatever level you are after.

I love junk food at times, but I much prefer to know exactly the prep that went into my meal. Portion control is my major issue. When I go for it I turn into Keith Floyd.

[Rowls]

I’ll be honest I’m 69 years of age (male) and don’t know how to cook. My wife is often having a go at me for not making an effort to learn, she’s happy to teach me but I’ve really no interest. If I was suddenly on my own I know I’d end up eating junk. I’ll also add I did think last autumn about enrolling on an evening course but I’m a bit embarrassed that I can’t even cook an egg. Is there any hope for me?

Do it beddie.

"Today" is always the perfect day to start but tomorrow might be too late.

[DCWat]

Review of the Panorama programme:

Disappointing it went down a singular route of looking at regulation when so many of the UK are willingly gulping down bad food. Every food additive consumed in the UK has been found safe within the permitted doses. That's not to say that you'd want to eat these things, simply that they won't kill you in a small enough dose.

There were lots of scary inferences but little evidence or balanced debate about the varied ways to consider what additives should and shouldn't be banned.

If you want a much more mature look into why some additives get banned and others don't -even when we know they have the potential to be harmful- then watch the link below. It's a much more rounded, fairer, more nuanced and also more rigorous look at the issues facing regulators. Highly recommended for everybody but especially if you've got a young family and concerned for children's health.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-WKprPrjHw

It's an Australian lady who runs a youtube account but she does a much better dissection of the issues regarding food safety and regulation of additives in 20 minutes than the BBC just offered us over 30 minutes.

The final line of Panorama was "Is it time to take stronger action?" but the programme didn't give us any of the information we'd need to make an informed answer to that question.

The BBC, being a publicly funded body and with an obligation to educate us, could have actually promoted healthier ways of eating and informed viewers what to do to avoid consuming crappy food. It didn't do any of that.

Here's a few things I observed in France where, if you've seen the map I posted earlier in this thread, they eat a LOT less processed crap.

* They shop small and regularly. By avoiding gigantic "big shops" they're more inclined to buy fresh food and eat healthily.
* They shop locally - ideally in walking distance. This isn't possible for a large proportion of the UK population but if you can walk to your local shops you should do. By walking you'll only be able to buy what you can carry and you'll end up prioritising healthier, fresh produce
* They eat as families. This is vital. A meal becomes a social event. They're less likely to overeat, the converse and their mental health is better as a result.

It's good to see the BBC covering these topics and bringing these subjects to the public fore but that was a missed opportunity to do something good with license payer's money.

"Eat Well For Less" was/is a far superior TV programme. There's a big fear of being didactic among certain people lest their seen to be patronizing or condescending but whoever made that Panorama programme has done a poor job. The UK's poor health is NOT the result of a lack of regulation - we have one of the most stringent regulatory bodies in the world and until basically last month we had the exact same regulation as the whole of the EU.

I know for a fact that on the vast majority of food standards, the UK exceeds the majority of EU standards. So how does that explain the divide in Europe whereby some countries eat fresh food and others eat much more processed food? It doesn't. Because eating processed food and the regulation of food additives are correlated. The citizens of these countries are clearly making different decisions based on their culture and society - not because of regulations.

Essentially it's down to personal choices. In the UK we suffer from a lack of knowledge and a whole host of social and demographic issues that have been ingrained for decades. It's going to take generations to challenge and overcome these issues. Pointing fingers and making empty inferences against regulatory bodies isn't going to help anybody.

The solution is more education and better information, not more regulation.

I'm disappointed with that.

"Eat Well For Less" will teach you far more useful information than this episode of Panorama.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0520lz9

Come on, Rowls.

You’ve seen enough Panorma’s to know that what they are delivering isn’t a programme designed to offer solutions. It’s always been a programme to highlight issues. You knew at the outset (or should have done) that it wouldn’t be anything else.

I don’t disagree that perhaps there should be something separate to advise and guide, but this was never going to be the programme to do this, certainly not in a half hour slot.

[Taffy on the wing]

People in England are noticeably fatter these days.......especially younger people.
I was shocked at how many obese teens i saw last time i was back.
Also, no end of KFC And McDonalds everywhere.........very poor quality food, which eaten regularly leads to ill health, Diabetes, heart disease ETC.

The documentary Salt, Sugar & Fat is very enlightening & shows the fast food industry for what it is.

[Taffy on the wing]

But the huge advantage of tins is that its 100% recyclable

If you are really concerned, you can look at the food label on the side which tells you how good/bad stuff is

Obviously, the more home cooked stuff the better, but most of us eat from a budget, so you spread that out

For a weekly shop for family of four (two teenagers) we are currently topping out at about £70 a week (£50 Aldi, £20 Asda) and we think that is pretty good

Sounds miraculous!

[AlargeClaret]

The “ rolling “younger generation have for seemingly the last 20 yrs been indoctrinated into a world of fast food , burgers, kebabs and takeaways allied to the march towards ever “cheaper” food (Aldi /Lidl etc) . The modern “normal” diet seems to be ,by default littered with junk and processed food .
While an occasional “ bit of junk” is harmless , I’d have “ home economics “ on every school curriculum from 11-16 . Cooking basic cheap , nutritious meals is so easy , yet my lavishly educated 16yo can’t even boil an egg .

[Rileybobs]

The “ rolling “younger generation have for seemingly the last 20 yrs been indoctrinated into a world of fast food , burgers, kebabs and takeaways allied to the march towards ever “cheaper” food (Aldi /Lidl etc) . The modern “normal” diet seems to be ,by default littered with junk and processed food .
While an occasional “ bit of junk” is harmless , I’d have “ home economics “ on every school curriculum from 11-16 . Cooking basic cheap , nutritious meals is so easy , yet my lavishly educated 16yo can’t even boil an egg .

Are you blaming your 16 year old’s school for them not being able to boil an egg?

[Lancasterclaret]

Like Lancaster and Rawls you mean.

I'm just pleased you've spelt my name right

Its the little things that draw you back into threads like this

[gandhisflipflop]

I miss the football season

[Jakubclaret]

Eat what you want as long as it makes you happy, it’s your life & your choice to eat what you want.

[LoveCurryPies]

How would they know? Cameras in the toilets!

The report was from supermarket customer surveys, ie they asked customers about personal hygiene and shopping.

[CaptJohn]

One of my favourite recipes is stuffed red peppers. Cost about 80p each.
For two people buy three red peppers. Slice in half and de seed them. Buy some budget tomatoes and slice into cubes and put in dish. Chop some fresh garlic and mix with tomatoes. Buy a small tin of anchovies (about 1 pound from most supermarkets) cut the anchovies up and again mix with tomatoes and garlic. Chop up some fresh Basil and add to mixture. Use the mixture to stuff into the peppers. Place peppers into ceramic baking dish and add at least a tablespoon of olive oil to each half pepper. Bake in oven on 180 (Fan oven) for about 45 minutes. Eat with some rustic bread. We like the Rosemary and sea salt foccacia from M&S.
It's a super meal, and reasonably priced with mostly fresh ingredients.
It also goes well with a good Rioja

[claretonthecoast1882]

Not making your own meals has to be one of the strangest and laziest approaches in life.

[timshorts]

This is very, very true. The best thing to do is to limit how many of these items you buy when you're in the shop. Once they're in your house and open you've lost the battle.

Or better still, don't buy these kind of products in a supermarket at all

Easiest way to do that is to go shopping after you have eaten, not before. If you are hungry, rubbish foods want to jump of the shelf into your trolley. If your stomach is full, they don't have that desire factor.

[Hipper]

Eat what you want as long as it makes you happy, it’s your life & your choice to eat what you want.

... and drink too no doubt?

Unfortunately whilst there is easily available crap out there masquerading as food your advise is unwise to say the least.

There was an experiment where someone decided to live exclusively on take-aways for two weeks. The results were not good. Here's one such experiment:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/articles/tru ... _takeaways

Companies making this stuff know from their research that fat, sugar and salt in the right combination makes you crave for more. Sugar appears to be addictive.

[Clovius Boofus]

I’d have “ home economics “ on every school curriculum from 11-16

It's shocking how successive govts have neglected this over the years. It's NOT nanny state to strive towards having a healthy population. I'd like to see the govt, regardless of whether it's Tory or Labour, encouraging healthy living and good diet.

Ping-food and takeaways all have their place, however, for millions of people it's all they know. We do indeed have to bring back Home Economics into the curriculum.

[Lancasterclaret]

My kids had food tech for three years at school, bog standard comprehensive in North lancs

Not the case around you lot?

[Rowls]

Come on, Rowls.

You’ve seen enough Panorma’s to know that what they are delivering isn’t a programme designed to offer solutions. It’s always been a programme to highlight issues. You knew at the outset (or should have done) that it wouldn’t be anything else.

I don’t disagree that perhaps there should be something separate to advise and guide, but this was never going to be the programme to do this, certainly not in a half hour slot.

It was highlighted in the press as a programme that would address the UK's poor diet, specifically the eating of processed food. It simply didn't do that. It looked at two additives and spent a third of the 30 minutes examining something completely different - food packaging.

It was poor and a missed opportunity.

[Lowbankclaret]

Many years ago I was sent to Sheffield teaching hospital to try to get to the bottom of my allergies and why they were getting worse. Let’s just just say they had no idea. I then paid out about £1,000 to go to a private clinic specialising in Allergies.
They basically told me that there are Environmental causes, Chemical causes, Animal causes, Food causes for allergies. I have elements of all 4 which I am allergic to and my body was being overloaded to the point I felt really really ill and no amount of antihistamines had any effect.
They explained that processed foods today have extracts of tomato and onion in just about everything, we are therefore eating the same additives with variations most meal times when eating processed foods.
I was put on what’s called the caveman diet, but I was only allowed very limited and very basic ingredients for several days and then started to add in new ones and record any effects. I lost a stone in weight in 14 days, probably mainly water retention due to the allergies.

After months of introducing foods, it was shown I was allergic to preservatives, fruit, tomatoes, strawberries . Fruit is ok if cooked fully. It’s labelled birch allergy syndrome. Also nuts and seeds, seeds being really bad. I now have an Epi pen after a couple of close calls with my breathing.

Top and bottom of it is, we eat just about no processed food. Alternate pure oils for cooking, sunflower and olive.

It improved my health massively when it was combined with the removal of most chemicals from the home.

[Greenmile]

Eat what you want as long as it makes you happy, it’s your life & your choice to eat what you want.

Not often Jakub gets an unironic “like” from me, but this is one of those occasions. Some of the moralising on here about what people choose to eat is a bit stomach-turning (or is that the takeaway curry I had for tea last night?)

When it comes to feeding your children, by all means go ahead and shame those who neglect healthy options, but as a fully grown adult, I will eat (and drink, and smoke) what I want, when I want.

[Venkys4eva]

It was highlighted in the press as a programme that would address the UK's poor diet, specifically the eating of processed food. It simply didn't do that. It looked at two additives and spent a third of the 30 minutes examining something completely different - food packaging.

It was poor and a missed opportunity.

I didnt watch it but all the food companies I've ever worked for are very clever with their packaging.

Ill give a brief example, we had a product that was extremely popular and our market research showed that people were prepared to pay a premium for a bigger product. The saturates on this particular product were 70% of your GDA (guideline daily amount). Once we had reformulated the recipe and increased the size by 30% the GDA of the saturates became a whopping 170%! Obviously we couldn't sell it like that so we did what we always do and marketed as 3 portion unit, knocking the saturates down to under 60% of your GDA. We knew full well that people buying the product would eat the lot in one go but that didn't stop us marketing it as a lower fat version of the existing product.

Thats just one example of the many work arounds, another is we always use a male gda when working out the percentages because its higher than a womans and gives you more to play with.

[ŽižkovClaret]

The BBC are highlighting this problem tonight at 8:00pm in Panorama. Bravo!

There are two simple rules to follow in your cooking.

1. If it contains an ingredient you haven't heard of then it's ultra processed.
2. If you only have to heat it in an oven/microwave it's ready-to-eat then it's ultra processed.

Cook from scratch as often as possible. You will be healthier & happier and you will save tonnes and tonnes of money.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m ... ill-health

Alright, calm down Jamie Oliver

[AlargeClaret]

Are you blaming your 16 year old’s school for them not being able to boil an egg?

Are you suggesting that education shouldn’t include basic living skills like cooking eggs,potatoes ,changing plugs, basic budgeting etc ? Though if you’ve managed to teach a teenage boy to boil an egg I applaud you .

[Rowls]

Not often Jakub gets an unironic “like” from me, but this is one of those occasions. Some of the moralising on here about what people choose to eat is a bit stomach-turning (or is that the takeaway curry I had for tea last night?)

When it comes to feeding your children, by all means go ahead and shame those who neglect healthy options, but as a fully grown adult, I will eat (and drink, and smoke) what I want, when I want.

You're free to do as you please Greenmile. You can label it "moralising" if you like but the way I see it is that there are many benefits of cooking from scratch, eating healthily and, whenever possible, eating at the table as a family.

The benefits include better mental health, weight loss, being healthier, fitter, more alert, less risk of cardiovascular disease, lower risk of cancer, lower risk of depression and other mental health problems. On top of this there are material gains - you will save a lot of money.

As an adult, it is your choice and you're welcome to it but the more complex truth is that, most of the UK is eating ultra processed junk food but far fewer people in (broadly) southern Europe are doing likewise. Why is that? Have the people of the UK taken a conscious decision to eat crap? Do the people of southern Europe possess iron wills that simply allow them to resist the allure of fatty, sugary junk food?

The truth is that many factors are at play in determining the way you eat and what you eat. Very few of these will be conscious choices.

In the end, we collectively share the bill that comes with rising obesity, increased cancer and poor cardiovascular health. We also share the burden of depression and mental illness. These diseases are as contagious as anything else.

If there are simple behavioural changes we can make that will make us healthier, happier and more prosperous it would be daft not to promote them as much as possible.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying takeaways in moderation and you can eat whatever you want. But there are major multiple benefits to cooking from scratch with fresh ingredients and I hope that one day, you discover them for yourself.

[Rowls]

Alright, calm down Jamie Oliver

Lolz

Easy to mock.

But not quite so funny when you consider the risk of cancer and heart disease. Sorry to be po-faced, I really am, but the mocking culture celebrates what? The culture that mocks Jamie Oliver needs smashing up. It doesn't have a single redeeming feature.

The British working class have some of the worst diets in the western world and when people like Jamie Oliver campaign to improve their lot, they get mocked for it? Do people actually want the British working class to be obese, unfit, healthy, poor and depressed? If so, carry on mocking Jamie Oliver.

It's no better than mocking Bevan.

[Rowls]

Are you suggesting that education shouldn’t include basic living skills like cooking eggs,potatoes ,changing plugs, basic budgeting etc ? Though if you’ve managed to teach a teenage boy to boil an egg I applaud you .

Are you blaming your 16 year old’s school for them not being able to boil an egg?

This is one of the problems at the heart of the matter.

Middle class children learn to cook at home and eat as families.
Asian children learn to cook at home and eat as families.

If more and more people did the same, we'd all be a lot happier, healthier and have more money.

[Firthy]

Alas, today there are more Idiots crying about shrink wrapped mince. This time at Co-Op. People really are thick as f... when it comes to cooking.

Generally I don't bother explaining things to people these days because despite their best intentions, those who can't cook generally won't even bother to try.

Not sure I get your point here. Are you in favour of or against shrink wrapped mince??

[kentonclaret]

Sadly, we have become a society where many people are now reliant on takeaways to the point where our national media is saturated with adverts from Just Eat and Getir, and the high street of every major town/city has rows of scooters lined up outside fast food restaurants just waiting for your order. Those delivering the food aren’t making a living because people order a takeaway “occasionally”.
Couch potatoes don’t even have to leave home to get a takeaway they just sit on the sofa until the doorbell rings.

[Greenmile]

You're free to do as you please Greenmile. You can label it "moralising" if you like but the way I see it is that there are many benefits of cooking from scratch, eating healthily and, whenever possible, eating at the table as a family.

The benefits include better mental health, weight loss, being healthier, fitter, more alert, less risk of cardiovascular disease, lower risk of cancer, lower risk of depression and other mental health problems. On top of this there are material gains - you will save a lot of money.

As an adult, it is your choice and you're welcome to it but the more complex truth is that, most of the UK is eating ultra processed junk food but far fewer people in (broadly) southern Europe are doing likewise. Why is that? Have the people of the UK taken a conscious decision to eat crap? Do the people of southern Europe possess iron wills that simply allow them to resist the allure of fatty, sugary junk food?

The truth is that many factors are at play in determining the way you eat and what you eat. Very few of these will be conscious choices.

In the end, we collectively share the bill that comes with rising obesity, increased cancer and poor cardiovascular health. We also share the burden of depression and mental illness. These diseases are as contagious as anything else.

If there are simple behavioural changes we can make that will make us healthier, happier and more prosperous it would be daft not to promote them as much as possible.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying takeaways in moderation and you can eat whatever you want. But there are major multiple benefits to cooking from scratch with fresh ingredients and I hope that one day, you discover them for yourself.

None of this - including the implication made by many others if not you, that I am “lazy” or a “couch potato” - is going to persuade me (nor, I would suggest anyone else) not to cook / order and eat what I want. It all seems a bit “nanny state” to me.

I’m perfectly capable of cooking from scratch with fresh ingredients (partly due to the fact that I’m in a fortunate financial position), but I regularly choose to spend my time doing something more enjoyable, and just order a takeout or cook a microwave meal.

The idea that I’m not making a conscious choice to (eg) order a takeaway is slightly ludicrous. It’s not like I’m logging into my Deliveroo account in my sleep or in some sort of fugue state.

(I’ve added a bit of emphasis / underlining to your post, for the bits that are accurate, and one bit that I’m specifically addressing above)

[Rowls]

None of this - including the implication made by many others if not you, that I am “lazy” or a “couch potato” - is going to persuade me (nor, I would suggest anyone else) not to cook / order and eat what I want. It all seems a bit “nanny state” to me.

I've made no such inference or accusation against you. I had a takeaway the night before last because I'd spent 12 hours of the day decorating. Takeaways are fine. Junk food is OK - in moderation. There's a time and a place. But looking at this map again...



... it's clear that the UK has a problem with ultra processed food. It makes up over half of our collective diet. It's even higher for children. That's a disgrace.

And seeing how this map overlaps with obesity rates and other related health outcomes, it would be remiss of a government to turn a blind eye to the problem.

The idea that I’m not making a conscious choice to (eg) order a takeaway is slightly ludicrous. It’s not like I’m logging into my Deliveroo account in my sleep or in some me sort of fugue state.

(I’ve added a bit of emphasis / underlining to your post, for the bits that are accurate, and one bit that I’m specifically addressing above)

We all (yes, that includes me) overestimate our own agency and underplay external factors in our decision making. You think you're in complete control of your use of your delivery app? You aren't.

Your phone is manipulating you just as mine is. Just like this website and this screen is. Phones are particularly perniciuos in this manner because they're designed to be taken everywhere you go and we're conditioned to react to their beeps and buzzes like Pavlovian dogs.

There's a reason you're using Deliveroo and not another app. Remember DoorDash, Grub Hub or ChowNow? The reason you're using Deliveroo is because it was better than those extinct apps and won the evolutionary race. It did this by encouraging replicative behaviour - repeat orders.

You're a smart chap, Greenmile and smart enough to think about how these things work. As for your diet, it is 100% your choice but I hope you make good choices!

[Swizzlestick]

I don't think any of those apps have ever existed in the UK.

[Rowls]

There's a reason you're using Deliveroo and not another app. Remember DoorDash, Grub Hub or ChowNow? The reason you're using Deliveroo is because it was better than those extinct apps and won the evolutionary race. It did this by encouraging replicative behaviour - repeat orders.

I've just been told that "replicative" is not a real word.

[Rowls]

I don't think any of those apps have ever existed in the UK.

Well, all the same. Those apps are designed by very, very clever people and they are designed to instigate repeat orders. The idea that you, me or anybody is immune to their charms is fanciful and naive.

[Leon_C]

I'm pretty comfortable in the kitchen, but one of the best cookbooks, by a country mile is Jamie Oliver's Ministry of Food. (Yeah, yeah, as above, there's a tendency for some people to dislike him, it all gets a bit boring.)

In the book, he gives really easy to follow recipes for stews, shepherds pie, soups, roast veg. Easy stuff for many, but out of reach for those who don't have experience cooking with fresh ingredients. It's the book that accompanies the series where he taught families on a Rotherham estate how to cook.

We can scoff about people who "can't cook" - but if you have always had somebody to do this for you, and you're not creative or inquisitive, then you won't have learnt.

[PlasticClaret]

Absolutely not correct, it often costs more and therefore rests a major issue.

It also takes a lot more time, which poor people working all the hours god sends don't have. So it's mostly a luxury of those who can both afford the added expense, and the added time.

The OP has accidentally hit upon one of many examples of why the working poor are much less happy and much less healthy than others.

[Greenmile]

I've made no such inference or accusation against you. I had a takeaway the night before last because I'd spent 12 hours of the day decorating. Takeaways are fine. Junk food is OK - in moderation. There's a time and a place. But looking at this map again...



... it's clear that the UK has a problem with ultra processed food. It makes up over half of our collective diet. It's even higher for children. That's a disgrace.

And seeing how this map overlaps with obesity rates and other related health outcomes, it would be remiss of a government to turn a blind eye to the problem.



We all (yes, that includes me) overestimate our own agency and underplay external factors in our decision making. You think you're in complete control of your use of your delivery app? You aren't.

Your phone is manipulating you just as mine is. Just like this website and this screen is. Phones are particularly perniciuos in this manner because they're designed to be taken everywhere you go and we're conditioned to react to their beeps and buzzes like Pavlovian dogs.

There's a reason you're using Deliveroo and not another app. Remember DoorDash, Grub Hub or ChowNow? The reason you're using Deliveroo is because it was better than those extinct apps and won the evolutionary race. It did this by encouraging replicative behaviour - repeat orders.

You're a smart chap, Greenmile and smart enough to think about how these things work. As for your diet, it is 100% your choice but I hope you make good choices!

If my phone is manipulating me into doing anything, I’d just be playing “snake” all day (I have an old Nokia).

I also use UberEats and JustEat - whichever has sent me the best deal for that day.

We don’t disagree on this as much as you may think, although I think the idea that there’s any value at all in sitting down to eat as a family is middle-class b*ll*cks. I just don’t accept that it’s the place of the govt (or you) to tell me what I should eat for my tea.

I’m also a little surprised that the suggestion that it is is coming from someone who remains upset that the govt made us all change our lifestyles a couple of years back to literally save the lives of the most vulnerable members of our society (note the difference between me saving / extending my own life and saving the lives of innumerable elderly / disabled / immunocompromised people)

Maybe I’m more of a libertarian than you are.

[Hipper]

It was highlighted in the press as a programme that would address the UK's poor diet, specifically the eating of processed food. It simply didn't do that. It looked at two additives and spent a third of the 30 minutes examining something completely different - food packaging.

It was poor and a missed opportunity.

I don't usually watch Panaroma anymore for this reason. The subjects are often interesting but half an hour is usually not long enough for what are supposed to be serious subjects and the result generally sounds like how you found this particular episode.

[GordonvaleClaret]

I save $100s on my electricity bill by dining out.
To cook a meal for 2 it costs up to $0.5 in electricity!!!
How smart am I?

[Hipper]

I'm pretty comfortable in the kitchen, but one of the best cookbooks, by a country mile is Jamie Oliver's Ministry of Food. (Yeah, yeah, as above, there's a tendency for some people to dislike him, it all gets a bit boring.)

In the book, he gives really easy to follow recipes for stews, shepherds pie, soups, roast veg. Easy stuff for many, but out of reach for those who don't have experience cooking with fresh ingredients. It's the book that accompanies the series where he taught families on a Rotherham estate how to cook.

We can scoff about people who "can't cook" - but if you have always had somebody to do this for you, and you're not creative or inquisitive, then you won't have learnt.

Mrs Beeton's Book of Cookery is still a top notch book. There is also a book called 'How to Boil an Egg' which has very basic guidance and I think was written for the author's child who was going off to university.

[Rileybobs]

Are you suggesting that education shouldn’t include basic living skills like cooking eggs,potatoes ,changing plugs, basic budgeting etc ? Though if you’ve managed to teach a teenage boy to boil an egg I applaud you .

I think there are a lot more practical skills that should be taught to children including managing finances etc. But your inference was that your boy's school is responsible for him not being able to boil an egg, and I would suggest that it's your responsibility to teach them such a simple skill, if indeed you feel it a necessary one. I learnt food technology at school, is it no longer taught? At the end of the day, there aren't enough hours in a school day to teach kids how to cook and this is a skill that can be taught a lot more practically at home.

[Rowls]

I think the idea that there’s any value at all in sitting down to eat as a family is middle-class b*ll*cks.

I think the opposite. It's something everybody should have in common.

[Jakubclaret]

Not often Jakub gets an unironic “like” from me, but this is one of those occasions. Some of the moralising on here about what people choose to eat is a bit stomach-turning (or is that the takeaway curry I had for tea last night?)

When it comes to feeding your children, by all means go ahead and shame those who neglect healthy options, but as a fully grown adult, I will eat (and drink, and smoke) what I want, when I want.

I don't remember mentioning smoking.

[Greenmile]

I don't remember mentioning smoking.

I don’t remember you mentioning it either. I did, though.

[Greenmile]

I think the opposite. It's something everybody should have in common.

I know you think the opposite. It’s entirely in keeping with your “Victorian Dad” persona.

[jrgbfc]

It's 20 years since I left school but instead of teaching us how to cook quick, healthy, simple meals in Food Technology we were doing stuff like designing our own food labels, was a complete waste of everyone's time.