New BFC Membership scheme

[Claret Till I Die]

I heard premium members get a ticket stub from the orient game and can say they attended

Hope for you yet Ghandisflipflop...

[gawthorpe_view]

It seems that premium members will also be able to buy their home tickets in existing season ticket seats and the incumbent will have to move for that game.

Excellent cast, outstanding bait!

Bravo sir, bravo indeed.

[bigdavethemaddog]

most PL clubs do the £35 membership scheme which isnt a bad idea especially if you can only attend a few games but cant afford a season ticket

[Jellybean]

I've got 9000 odd points - I just think that if someone wants to do some away games (maybe because they live miles away) and they are willing to pay £250 in advance to help then I don't see an issue with it

We'll be s**t soon enough, and getting tickets won't be an issue when that happens

Never thought you would be one backing this money grab which basically enables the 'haves' to skip the line ahead of the 'have nots' who for many will have sacrificed other things in their life to be able to afford a season ticket, who have been loyal to the club and followed them up and down the country for years and contributed to our great away following.

Has a feeling of those rich playboys who get season tickets at Fulham so they can watch premier league football, well that for me takes the rawness and edge away from Burnley as a working class, football obsessed town, potentially leaving us with a sea of wealthy plastics if enough take up this offer

[equinox]

Never thought you would be one backing this money grab which basically enables the 'haves' to skip the line ahead of the 'have nots' who for many will have sacrificed other things in their life to be able to afford a season ticket, who have been loyal to the club and followed them up and down the country for years and contributed to our great away following.

Has a feeling of those rich playboys who get season tickets at Fulham so they can watch premier league football, well that for me takes the rawness and edge away from Burnley as a working class, football obsessed town, potentially leaving us with a sea of wealthy plastics if enough take up this offer

This isn't bad, not as good as aggi's but decent.

[Nori1958]

Not wishing to get into any debate, but the club say premium members get priority on away tickets the same as whatever the points criteria is for a particular game,and are guaranteed a certain amount for every game

[Moorite]

Wonder if I was to get the premium if I could purchase away tickets for my family as well?

[bigdavethemaddog]

Not wishing to get into any debate, but the club say premium members get priority on away tickets the same as whatever the points criteria is for a particular game,and are guaranteed a certain amount for every game

reading between the lines i reckon the club will split the away allocation 70% to season tickets and 30% premium members - i know thats what Leeds and Chelsea certainly do

[Clockwork Claret]

Makes sense to me. Might be they need to up the price.

But it will bring additional revenue and pretty common across most clubs in the Premier.

Let's face it the points system isn't exactly fair and equitable either.

[Myk]

Not wishing to get into any debate, but the club say premium members get priority on away tickets the same as whatever the points criteria is for a particular game,and are guaranteed a certain amount for every game

Sounds like what being a foundation member was like in the first promotion season when everyone was after away tickets.

[ClaretinJapan]

For international, if I travel home, can only make one game. The cost of that game is now, off last seasons price £80.

Same here. I can probably get one game in if it's home in August. Think I'll watch it on telly now, and make my go to game another local side just for entertainment. It's not the reason I come back to the UK.

[RammyClaret61]

The big question for me is how many home tickets will members be scrapping over. Sounds like you are paying to be in a ballot with no refund if you get nowt. Or is it first come first served? Some need to plan well in advance.

[Clockwork Claret]

A sea of wealthy plastics.

Can't see it. Lots have years of season ticket history that unfortunately doesn't relate to the current points tally and therefore use family and friend points to access games (unfairly).

Never thought you would be one backing this money grab which basically enables the 'haves' to skip the line ahead of the 'have nots' who for many will have sacrificed other things in their life to be able to afford a season ticket, who have been loyal to the club and followed them up and down the country for years and contributed to our great away following.

Has a feeling of those rich playboys who get season tickets at Fulham so they can watch premier league football, well that for me takes the rawness and edge away from Burnley as a working class, football obsessed town, potentially leaving us with a sea of wealthy plastics if enough take up this offer

[Chester Perry]

When I said ALK/VSL would build towards this approach two years ago, many said it wouldn't (couldn't) happen. Similarly there were sceptics that argued against statements that ticket prices would rise, yet here we are with rises for 3 years in a row (the biggest being so far this year)

When I commented the other day that to date the largest operational revenue gains ALK/VSL have made have come from fans, and local community via Matchday, retail and catering I was told I was being harsh on the ALK/VSL. Particularly when I pointed out that the last accounts showed a significant drop in commercial income. not only to the previous lock out season but even more so to the ones that immediately preceded that.

There is is much that ALK/VSL need to do to raise non tv income, and while player trading will have its role the commercial side in particular has a desperate need to grow significantly if the club are to maintain a fighting chance in the Premier League (or indeed the Championship without parachutes)

I fully expect that last seasons Matchday income will surpass that of the European season of 2018/19 (£6.323m) by around £2m even though average attendance last season was 19,953 against 20,534 in 2018/19 - a time when hospitality, particularly in the Bob Lord was noticeably fuller. To date it is the fans and local community that have been squeezed to provide revenue uplift and this is a trend that shows no sign of abating. There is obviously ambition to increase the tourist trade and the revenue it provides.

The unwritten bargain with the takeover was that revenues would grow enough to more than meet the cost of the acquisition, we have not begun to see that yet and 30 months in, it appears we are still at the stage where it is the additional monies squeezed from fans that is facilitating the majority of interest payments - particularly at the new loan rate.

Can the situation improve? yes

Is it improving fast enough? a lot will depend on the commercial deals that will shortly be announced, given as of today we are once again members of the Premier League

I suspect most fans are not aware of just how much their additional spend has meant to the takeover and given that summer is traditionally the period of greatest hope in football possibly fewer will care

but the question should be asked, are we one club for all, or one club for the enrichment of ALK/VSL? I will add that while the owners are far from unique in seeking their enrichment from the game, there are part of a much smaller band that have exploited fans to help pay for it in this way. The others that have followed this path have been vilified not celebrated.

Some (probably most) will take the above as opinion or a negative view of the owners - to my mind they are observations of the published facts

I have repeatedly stated that we can be thrilled by what we have witnessed on the pitch and still question, even look negatively at what is happening behind the scenes at the way the club is being run. Should it take 30 months to improve a website, or even learn to release a new initiative with all the attendant T&C's properly prepared?

There are many more such issues of probably greater significance that a great number do not want to know about or even care about. That is what I find so bizarre, this is a town whose identity is so wrapped up in its football club, it should care so much more about what that club represents in the way it actually is being run.

Enjoy your summer everyone, have hope for the coming season and be conscious about everything (good, bad or indifferent) that is happening at the club we all love.

[dandeclaret]

Is it true that they're introducing a roof walk option if you buy a premium membership? You get to walk up the longside roof, to truly appreciate the best view in football, before they give you a parachute, and drop you on the cricket field roof? Apparently if you buy the super premium option, you can even be rescued by the fire brigade - whilst a game is in progress.

[Lancasterclaret]

Never thought you would be one backing this money grab which basically enables the 'haves' to skip the line ahead of the 'have nots' who for many will have sacrificed other things in their life to be able to afford a season ticket, who have been loyal to the club and followed them up and down the country for years and contributed to our great away following.

Has a feeling of those rich playboys who get season tickets at Fulham so they can watch premier league football, well that for me takes the rawness and edge away from Burnley as a working class, football obsessed town, potentially leaving us with a sea of wealthy plastics if enough take up this offer

I look at it as a chance for those who live miles away but struggle to get tickets for their closest away games as a chance to have tickets

I think you might be over reacting a little with the idea of us suddenly becoming the fulham of the north though!

[IanMcL]

Is it true that they're introducing a roof walk option if you buy a premium membership? You get to walk up the longside roof, to truly appreciate the best view in football, before they give you a parachute, and drop you on the cricket field roof? Apparently if you buy the super premium option, you can even be rescued by the fire brigade - whilst a game is in progress.

You just made that up!

You are confusing the new additional seating on the roof of the Bob Lord, with parachute jumps! These new premium seats will be available, shortly, to season ticket holders, with many points, who want to grab a premium, 'penthouse' hospitality suite. Like you, I suspect the super premium scheme payers will also now get first dibs at them.

[Jacko]

but the question should be asked, are we one club for all, or one club for the enrichment of ALK/VSL? I will add that while the owners are far from unique in seeking their enrichment from the game, there are part of a much smaller band that have exploited fans to help pay for it in this way. The others that have followed this path have been vilified not celebrated.

It's quite clear to me that we're all being squeezed. I find it reprehensible; even if it is unsurprising given modern football.

Often reading this messageboard, I'm surprised by how few people seem to mind, some even say things like, 'We have to maximise revenue', as if that is gospel and that we should welcome being charged more by owners who are looking to turn a buck.

The football club is us, the fans; not the owners, not the players or manager. It should be run for us. Schemes like this are not in the interests of the majority of fans, I would argue.

[ŽižkovClaret]

It's quite clear to me that we're all being squeezed. I find it reprehensible; even if it is unsurprising given modern football.

Often reading this messageboard, I'm surprised by how few people seem to mind, some even say things like, 'We have to maximise revenue', as if that is gospel and that we should welcome being charged more by owners who are looking to turn a buck.

The football club is us, the fans; not the owners, not the players or manager. It should be run for us. Schemes like this are not in the interests of the majority of fans, I would argue.

I think we just accept that this is the new model. The old model under Garlick was broken, and resulted in relegation.

[daveisaclaret]

I think we just accept that this is the new model. The old model under Garlick was broken, and resulted in relegation.

Unless you think the problem with Garlick's model was not charging fans for memberships it's hard to see what this means

[ŽižkovClaret]

Unless you think the problem with Garlick's model was not charging fans for memberships it's hard to see what this means

Its just one sign of a sharper, harder nosed, more professional commercial mindset

[daveisaclaret]

Its just one sign of a sharper, harder nosed, more professional commercial mindset

But as the poster says, it's just squeezing more money from existing fans. I'm sure it will be nice if the club earns more money but it would be a lot better if it didn't just come from making it more expensive to be an active Burnley fan.

[Quickenthetempo]

I think we just accept that this is the new model. The old model under Garlick was broken, and resulted in relegation.

We didn't get relegated under Garlick. It was 18 months later.

Seeing as managers only last 18 months on average, owners must think that's plenty of time to turn a clubs fortunes round and be accountable.

[ŽižkovClaret]

But as the poster says, it's just squeezing more money from existing fans. I'm sure it will be nice if the club earns more money but it would be a lot better if it didn't just come from making it more expensive to be an active Burnley fan.

I think for one thing, its going to squeeze a lot more from the hospitality market for away fans for games against their team at the Turf. We have previously left meat on the bone the imo

[ŽižkovClaret]

We didn't get relegated under Garlick. It was 18 months later.

Seeing as managers only last 18 months on average, owners must think that's plenty of time to turn a clubs fortunes round and be accountable.

Obviously the model had long lasting effects that didn't disappear overnight, and its been a slow process to turn things around, and it is certainly not finished.

[daveisaclaret]

I think for one thing, its going to squeeze a lot more from the hospitality market for away fans for games against their team at the Turf. We have previously left meat on the bone the imo

How do you figure that? Membership isn't needed to buy hospitality.

[ŽižkovClaret]

How do you figure that? Membership isn't needed to buy hospitality.

Sorry, im looking at the overall changes including the new system for hospitality

[Lancasterclaret]

Sorry, im looking at the overall changes including the new system for hospitality

The point being made by a few is that we are now going to be paying more and more each year for what we have got used to paying roughly the same for quite some time

That is going to put a lot of pressure on budgets (especially at the moment) and the worry is (not one I subscribe to!) is that we become a team with a support base that doesn't reflect the town

Personally, a lot of the moaning is from those who are old with loads of points who feel their position of being able to get tickets regardless is under threat

I get that, even have (limited!) sympathy for that but as you correctly say we are in a new ownership model now and I guess we are all going to have to get used to dealing with that

[daveisaclaret]

The point being made by a few is that we are now going to be paying more and more each year for what we have got used to paying roughly the same for quite some time

That is going to put a lot of pressure on budgets (especially at the moment) and the worry is (not one I subscribe to!) is that we become a team with a support base that doesn't reflect the town

Personally, a lot of the moaning is from those who are old with loads of points who feel their position of being able to get tickets regardless is under threat

I get that, even have (limited!) sympathy for that but as you correctly say we are in a new ownership model now and I guess we are all going to have to get used to dealing with that

I do feel at the very least we should have been told before renewing our season tickets if people were going to be able to pay to get away priority, given how long the season tickets have given us away priority (based on points).

I doubt it would have made much difference to anyone's decision (including me) but Pace has continually emphasised how important he thinks good communication is.

[ŽižkovClaret]

I do feel at the very least we should have been told before renewing our season tickets if people were going to be able to pay to get away priority, given how long the season tickets have given us away priority (based on points).

I doubt it would have made much difference to anyone's decision (including me) but Pace has continually emphasised how important he thinks good communication is.

Its a fair point, but i think many might have suspected some sort of shake up with away ticket availability was in the post given the last season's issues

[Lancasterclaret]

I do feel at the very least we should have been told before renewing our season tickets if people were going to be able to pay to get away priority, given how long the season tickets have given us away priority (based on points).

I doubt it would have made much difference to anyone's decision (including me) but Pace has continually emphasised how important he thinks good communication is.

It has to be communicated better no doubt

The only worry I would have with this is that if its massively oversubscribed and the pressure is then on for them to change it again

[ClaretPete001]

When I said ALK/VSL would build towards this approach two years ago, many said it wouldn't (couldn't) happen. Similarly there were sceptics that argued against statements that ticket prices would rise, yet here we are with rises for 3 years in a row (the biggest being so far this year)

When I commented the other day that to date the largest operational revenue gains ALK/VSL have made have come from fans, and local community via Matchday, retail and catering I was told I was being harsh on the ALK/VSL. Particularly when I pointed out that the last accounts showed a significant drop in commercial income. not only to the previous lock out season but even more so to the ones that immediately preceded that.

etc

At this risk of being accused of hijacking thread with finance talk, and I sympathise with anyone who is just interested in football but I guess this thread is a business related one, I agree with almost all of it except for one point.

They can't raise organic revenue in any meaningful way. PL broadcast revenue will likely be £110 million for us but more like £160 million for the big boys.

Even if they sold 900 premium membership @ £250 and 3500 standards, which pretty much is about as many as you could sell, unless you are going to double sell seats, then you are only going to make around £350,000.

There is a limit to how much organic revenue you can generate because of the constraints of the population, the amount of competition in the area and the socio-economic status of the town.

As yet I see no discernible business model other than they are taking a lot of cash out of the business, which they will have to replace with increased revenue but that will only replicate what we had before because of the amount that is being taken out.

At this point, without a lot of conjecture we have no idea what their plan is....

So, the question becomes how much are you going to generate by doing it and how much you are going to lose in terms of brand loyalty?

And I guess the answer is in direct correlation with how long we win can win matches playing attractive football in the PL.

[ŽižkovClaret]

It has to be communicated better no doubt

The only worry I would have with this is that if its massively oversubscribed and the pressure is then on for them to change it again

At 250 quid a pop, i doubt it will be oversubscribed

[daveisaclaret]

Its a fair point, but i think many might have suspected some sort of shake up with away ticket availability was in the post given the last season's issues

If a single Burnley fan predicted the shake up would be charging £250 to give priority then that person can get in touch with me about Euromillions numbers.

[Chester Perry]

we are in a new ownership model now and I guess we are all going to have to get used to dealing with that

we are indeed

however as has always been the case, fans can determine what they are prepared to accept and can even unite to get decisions reversed as has been witnessed in recent years at Arsenal, Liverpool and Manchester United.

The difference, being that fans at those clubs are more organised and in the case of Liverpool in particular, one group (Spirit of Shankly) has effectively become the conscious soul and cultural guardian of the club which even hard nosed American 'finance bro' owners have been forced to listen too. This is because Spirit of Shankly do not work in isolation, they work with the community, other supporter groups and the wider football community.

All clubs, would benefit from and should have such a supporter led 'soul/cultural guardian'' groups. we often see posts praising the approach of German fans while similarly lamenting that it is not possible here. that is simply not true, it is just that many are not willing to take the measures that would make it so.

[ŽižkovClaret]

At this risk of being accused of hijacking thread with finance talk, and I sympathise with anyone who is just interested in football but I guess this thread is a business related one, I agree with almost all of it except for one point.

They can't raise organic revenue in any meaningful way. PL broadcast revenue will likely be £110 million for us but more like £160 million for the big boys.

Even if they sold 900 premium membership @ £250 and 3500 standards, which pretty much is about as many as you could sell, unless you are going to double sell seats, then you are only going to make around £350,000.

There is a limit to how much organic revenue you can generate because of the constraints of the population, the amount of competition in the area and the socio-economic status of the town.

As yet I see no discernible business model other than they are taking a lot of cash out of the business, which they will have to replace with increased revenue but that will only replicate what we had before because of the amount that is being taken out.

At this point, without a lot of conjecture we have no idea what their plan is....

So, the question becomes how much are you going to generate by doing it and how much you are going to lose in terms of brand loyalty?

And I guess the answer is in direct correlation with how long we win can win matches playing attractive football in the PL.

For one thing, i'd say something like "Increased corporate hospitality takings by 200% etc" looks good on a investor portfolio. The actual revenue may be secondary if our focus is still currently on attracting investment

[ClaretTony]

we are indeed

however as has always been the case, fans can determine what they are prepared to accept and can even unite to get decisions reversed as has been witnessed in recent years at Arsenal, Liverpool and Manchester United.

The difference, being that fans at those clubs are more organised and in the case of Liverpool in particular, one group (Spirit of Shankly) has effectively become the conscious soul and cultural guardian of the club which even hard nosed American 'finance bro' owners have been forced to listen too. This is because Spirit of Shankly do not work in isolation, they work with the community, other supporter groups and the wider football community.

All clubs, would benefit from and should have such a supporter led 'soul/cultural guardian'' groups. we often see posts praising the approach of German fans while similarly lamenting that it is not possible here. that is simply not true, it is just that many are not willing to take the measures that would make it so.

Absolutely, some brilliant organisations among fans at other clubs and you quote Spirit of Shankly which is a shining example.

The sooner there is an organised Supporter Group at Burnley where fans can join and work together, the better things will be. This wouldn't be for fighting the club but working alongside them with all the good things they do and, when required, challenging them. If some clubs do stuff without any consultation then they suffer the consequence as Liverpool have done more than once.

Burnley FC Supporters Association (for want of a better title) should come into being as soon as possible.

[RicardoMontalban]

All clubs, would benefit from and should have such a supporter led 'soul/cultural guardian'' groups. we often see posts praising the approach of German fans while similarly lamenting that it is not possible here. that is simply not true, it is just that many are not willing to take the measures that would make it so.

If we’re talking about German fans’ approach from an organisational, almost unionised pov I agree wholeheartedly, the only blocker appears to be the willpower of fans to do it. Is this a cultural thing exacerbated by the punishing costs of being a football fan, at any ‘decent’ level anyway, that just saps the enthusiasm for any serious large scale organisation?

We’re on thin ice talking finance as it is so I’ll keep the politics even briefer, you just need to skim read any thread on here that mentions unions, strikes, collective action to see that there is reluctance to think in these terms. We see this posts complaining about being taken advantage of by football as a business, but no appetite to do anything. Cognitive dissonance in action.

Of course in Germany the fan positions are enhanced by the ownership model and I see as close to zero chance of that being adopted here as possible.

Right, we’re my St Pauli top.

[ClaretInLeeds]

Speaking of hospitality, it looks like we are outsourcing the sales of hospitality tickets to a company called Seat Unique

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/con ... eat-unique

[durhamclaret]

Speaking of hospitality, it looks like we are outsourcing the sales of hospitality tickets to a company called Seat Unique

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/con ... eat-unique

As somebody once said, “times they are a changing”

[Rileybobs]

Speaking of hospitality, it looks like we are outsourcing the sales of hospitality tickets to a company called Seat Unique

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/con ... eat-unique

That’s a decent little hatchback.

[Chester Perry]

Speaking of hospitality, it looks like we are outsourcing the sales of hospitality tickets to a company called Seat Unique

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/con ... eat-unique

flexible pricing strategies

how wonderful, takes Category A, B and C to a whole new level and at any given moment in relation to demand

One club for all as long as you have got the necessary wherewithal

[Lancasterclaret]

Has to be said as well, in the era of huge oil rich despots buying football clubs and convincing (by spending billions) their various fanbases to argue with all and sundry that its actually a "good" thing, what is happening to ours is fairly modest and fairly benign

[taio]

Has to be said as well, in the era of huge oil rich despots buying football clubs and convincing (by spending billions) their various fanbases to argue with all and sundry that its actually a "good" thing, what is happening to ours is fairly modest and fairly benign

Yes, they feel like adjustments or modifications right now. But there are some supporters who see it as the thin end of the wedge. Only time will tell.

[Chester Perry]

Has to be said as well, in the era of huge oil rich despots buying football clubs and convincing (by spending billions) their various fanbases to argue with all and sundry that its actually a "good" thing, what is happening to ours is fairly modest and fairly benign

Benign in the sense of not furthering the interest of a nation state

in pursuing a corporate raid strategy that defines Anglo - Saxon capitalism that is frowned on by the majority of working classes in Anglo Saxon nations, in a town and community that has traditionally been poor, heavily unionised and with strong socialist tendencies perhaps less so

add in the reality of an outflow of loans to cover much of the takeover cost (£114.8m), financial support of an external loans (including refinancing) to cover the takeover cost (£20m+) and some might see your suggestion in a different light.

particularly when nation states are putting money, not only into the club, but also the local community in which the club sits - though the latter is to generate a profit (which is why in academic circles they are called rentier states)

[ChorltonCharlie]

The problem with supporters groups is they're much like local politics with some truly obnoxious people getting involved. Many of them driven by self-interest and not the interests of the wider fan base. We have some fans who really want to work with the club to make things better, but in my experience they're always under-mined by others with destructive personalities. I very much doubt any such group would have made much difference on this.

Back on the original topic, I've still seen nothing official that states there's any kind of priority for the premium package. Only hearsay on here.

[Lancasterclaret]

Benign in the sense of not furthering the interest of a nation state

in pursuing a corporate raid strategy that defines Anglo - Saxon capitalism that is frowned on by the majority of working classes in Anglo Saxon nations, in a town and community that has traditionally been poor, heavily unionised and with strong socialist tendencies perhaps less so

add in the reality of an outflow of loans to cover much of the takeover cost (£114.8m), financial support of an external loans (including refinancing) to cover the takeover cost (£20m+) and some might see your suggestion in a different light.

particularly when nation states are putting money, not only into the club, but also the local community in which the club sits - though the latter is to generate a profit (which is why in academic circles they are called rentier states)

Thing is CP, your average football fan won't give a s**t about that as long as he can still afford to go and the team aren't completely shite

[what_no_pies]

Errr, did I not pay for membership previously? I didn't unsubscribe. Based on that experience wnd this campaign now coning in I assume the club has the liberty of making a new membership scheme and charging for it ad hoc.

Well that's just great.

[ŽižkovClaret]

Errr, did I not pay for membership previously? I didn't unsubscribe. Based on that experience wnd this campaign now coning in I assume the club has the liberty of making a new membership scheme and charging for it ad hoc.

Well that's just great.

What membership did you pay for previously?

[Chester Perry]

Thing is CP, your average football fan won't give a s**t about that as long as he can still afford to go and the team aren't completely shite

as is being so ably proved by the supporters of Burnley FC