Ashes Thread 2023

[dandeclaret]

Without the rain delays the aussies would of had plenty of time to reach the target. Stokes didn't know on day one it was going to rain for half a day on day five.The declaration, amongst other things, cost us the game. Runs on the board in the first innings against the best test team in the world is vital.

Surely there was enough rain in the long term forecast to expect the best part of a day to be lost at some point during that test? It didn’t appear out of nowhere, it was well mapped. They knew it was going to be a 4 day test, and have been quite open in their no draw policy.

[Jimscho]

Playing traditional cricket trying not to lose was like watching paint dry.I once went to a roses match at Old Trafford and watched John Hampshire and Geoff Boycott score 1 run in an hour.With this new style England are playing there will be results in most games.Which would I rather watch?Well done Stokes and co.

[roperclaret]

Wow, I didn’t realise we had so many Cricket experts on this board.

[Quickenthetempo]

Moving on to Lords

Anderson, Ali out
Woakes, Wood in

Check on Robinsons fitness

Not sure how we get Foakes in the side and I don't think he's in the squad anyhow. Duckett is named as a wicketkeeper although I'm not sure if he's a regular keeper?

[nil_desperandum]

Some references to it not being a boring draw. Can't see how this game would have been boring even if it ended in a draw. There have been some fantastic drawn Test matches over the years.
It's all hypothetical, but let's just say we got a first innings lead of around 37 rather than 7, and therefore the target would have been about 315. All 4 results would have been on the cards in the last 45 minutes.That would have been even more riveting (IMO).

[FCBurnley]

Look. I have played in the same cricket team as CT so that must make me an expert in everything

[karatekid]

Surely there was enough rain in the long term forecast to expect the best part of a day to be lost at some point during that test? It didn’t appear out of nowhere, it was well mapped. They knew it was going to be a 4 day test, and have been quite open in their no draw policy.

To be fair the weather forecasters struggle to be accurate for tomorrow never mind 5 days in advance. I just think calling Root back to the shed when he was scoring freely was a poor decision. With two bowlers who were not match fit , JA + MA, it just didn't make sense. Yes, Root may have gone next ball but he may just have knocked another 30 odd runs which ultimately may have won us the test. Remember we didn't pick up a wicket in the 5 or so overs after the declaration.

[Lancasterclaret]

It was a fascinating watch for all five days, and either side looked on top at different stages of the match, and it was an enthralling final day

What more do you want from a five day test?

[Eyesofblue2]

I think I first heard it from an Aussie cricketer back in the 60s, he said when an Aussie has his opponent on the deck, he stands on his neck. We had the Aussies on the deck towards the end of the first day, but Ben didn't stand on their neck, he let them back up. Fine if that's the way you want to play it, but it's a risky strategy against an Aussie Test team., they tend not to look gift horses in the mouth.

[Big Vinny K]

Great match and Stokes and England very nearly pulled it off against let’s remember the no 1 team in the world.

There was nothing in the game from day 1 and it’s fantastic for crowds and viewers to be seeing 400 runs scored in a day at 5 an over. It’s brought new people to the game and it’s exactly what test cricket needed at a time when the other forms of the game are taking the headlines (and sponsorship).

Maybe the purists prefer a game petering out to a draw with teams scoring at less than 2 an over but unfortunately there are less and less purists about and even fewer sponsors and tv companies interested in this.

Stokes won’t be around for much longer with his injuries so let’s enjoy him while we can. There’s still a long way to go in this series and his track record as a captain shows that he can turn this around.

[claretabroad]

What a fantastic game. The declaration was brave and didn't work but it set up a last day with either side thinking they could win. This is fun to watch and I hope the rest of the series is as good. We had plenty of opportunities to win this game but didn't take them. Fair play to Australia for a battling win but I feel we lost this game because of not having a top keeper (I'd still keep Bairstow in the side but not behind the stumps).

[Dark Cloud]

Great game and yet another test match with a "result" which is brilliant and a huge contrast to the first 40 years of my life when you barely saw a win and it was simply draw after draw. Players are playing to win and to entertain and crowds (admittedly mainly in England and Australia) still love that format of the game and fully appreciate the nuances involved and the ebb and flow of a 5 day slog.
Re today I believe Stokes was doing what Stokes does and trying to think outside the box and do the unexpected, but ultimately it didn't quite work. The new ball should have been taken and Anderson should have been given a crack before the curtain fell (imo)

[expoultryboy]

Fantastic match and hopefully the next four games are as exciting but with England winning . Imo the declaration was a gamble ( especially with Root going well) , but if we'd of taken a couple of wickets in those last 4 overs , everyone would of said it was brilliant decision . What cost us this game was not having a specialist wicketkeeper because there were 4 easy chances that should/would of been taken . Bairstow would have to make a ton in each innings just to even out the mistakes made . It's not his fault , it's the selectors who decided to put the gloves on him .

[CrosspoolClarets]

Felt very similar to watching Rory McIlroy in the US Open on Sunday night when he stuck a wedge in the bunker and I felt he’d blown it. That dropped catch from Stokes I said straight away to the wife “Stokes has just dropped the Ashes”. It felt a key turning point. In truth though there were many before it. The declaration I could understand but we had a guy in on 100+ and could have given him 10 minutes to go out swinging. Then there were the missed Bairstow chances etc. The main culprit though, was luck.

It was a great match.

[TheFamilyCat]

Great match and Stokes and England very nearly pulled it off against let’s remember the no 1 team in the world.

There was nothing in the game from day 1 and it’s fantastic for crowds and viewers to be seeing 400 runs scored in a day at 5 an over. It’s brought new people to the game and it’s exactly what test cricket needed at a time when the other forms of the game are taking the headlines (and sponsorship).

Maybe the purists prefer a game petering out to a draw with teams scoring at less than 2 an over but unfortunately there are less and less purists about and even fewer sponsors and tv companies interested in this.

Stokes won’t be around for much longer with his injuries so let’s enjoy him while we can. There’s still a long way to go in this series and his track record as a captain shows that he can turn this around.

Like most things these days nobody seems to realise there is a middle ground. There is choice between B*****l and Boycott. See the great Australian team of the '90's/2000's.

I love the aggressive cricket and positive intent but it needs to stay on the right side of recklessness and stupidity.

[AGENT_CLARET]

Wow, I didn’t realise we had so many Cricket experts on this board.

Not experts just fan's with different opinions

[nil_desperandum]

I love the aggressive cricket and positive intent but it needs to stay on the right side of recklessness and stupidity.

Exactly this.

[Big Vinny K]

Like most things these days nobody seems to realise there is a middle ground. There is choice between B*****l and Boycott. See the great Australian team of the '90's/2000's.

I love the aggressive cricket and positive intent but it needs to stay on the right side of recklessness and stupidity.

Agreed and I’m sure they are always striving to find that balance.
That Aussie team you mention is probably the greatest test team in history - it’s definitely up there. We know that the current England team is definitely not up there !! So maybe Stokes and Baz are playing like this because of the players they have at their disposal and they have concluded that’s the best chance of them winning.

When it works it looks genius but when it doesn’t it can look reckless or stupid as you say. But is going to hit the ball out of the ground and missing and getting stumped any more stupid than trying to pad up and block for 50 deliveries and eventually getting out lbw. Both are mistakes and a team with Englands limitations are definitely going to make mistakes.

[JarrowClaret]

Without the rain delays the aussies would of had plenty of time to reach the target. Stokes didn't know on day one it was going to rain for half a day on day five.The declaration, amongst other things, cost us the game. Runs on the board in the first innings against the best test team in the world is vital.

I actually think rain was always part of the focast for the last day I’m sure I heard 5 live say it would affect the whole day at the start of the test. Anyway whatever the reason for the loss, there are going to be more games like this moving forward let’s just hope we are in the right side of the result in the future.

[TheFamilyCat]

Agreed and I’m sure they are always striving to find that balance.
That Aussie team you mention is probably the greatest test team in history - it’s definitely up there. We know that the current England team is definitely not up there !! So maybe Stokes and Baz are playing like this because of the players they have at their disposal and they have concluded that’s the best chance of them winning.

When it works it looks genius but when it doesn’t it can look reckless or stupid as you say. But is going to hit the ball out of the ground and missing and getting stumped any more stupid than trying to pad up and block for 50 deliveries and eventually getting out lbw. Both are mistakes and a team with Englands limitations are definitely going to make mistakes.

The first innings of this test was the balance IMO. 400+/day scoring rate with controlled aggression. Crawley, Brook, Root, Bairstow scored the bulk of the runs playing "proper" cricket shots (Root's ramps excepted) with relatively low risk.

[roperclaret]

Felt very similar to watching Rory McIlroy in the US Open on Sunday night when he stuck a wedge in the bunker and I felt he’d blown it. That dropped catch from Stokes I said straight away to the wife “Stokes has just dropped the Ashes”. It felt a key turning point. In truth though there were many before it. The declaration I could understand but we had a guy in on 100+ and could have given him 10 minutes to go out swinging. Then there were the missed Bairstow chances etc. The main culprit though, was luck.

It was a great match.

This. The Aussies were very lucky in taking out our top two in the second innings in the few overs between rain breaks when the track was the best all match for the bowlers.

[Dressinggown]

This series will be the template of how test cricket is played in the future. There are big differences in approach from both sides but neither contemplated a draw at any point.

A full house at Edgbaston on a Tuesday speaks volumes as to the resurgence of Test cricket when the shorter forms of the game seemed to be taking over.

There will be the traditionalists brought up with what was a defensive based ideal and will perceive the new attack minded game plans as being alien to the values of test cricket.

Conventions are being thrown out of the window and we are seeing innovation from ball to ball.

However, we lost and it will take some real performances for us to come back from a first test defeat in the Ashes.

As mentioned previously the top batting order of the visitors are going to start to perform. That's why W*rner, Steve S*mit and Manus Labiachange are top of the world rankings.

[kentonclaret]

Luck has always played a massive part in the game of cricket and it begins at the very start of a match with a coin toss.
As for crowds turning up on the 5th day this is a game between England and Australia in an Ashes Series. The crowds will always turn up if the game is finely poised. The England and Australia cricket boards know the value of maintaining it as a 5 match series when other Test playing nations are only offered a 3 match series. India being the exception. Both the Aussies and England take huge tour parties hosted by famous players of yesteryear each time an Ashes Series comes around.

[Clive 1960]

I can't see the Aussies losing the Ashes from here , i hope i am wrong but i just think they have a stronger bowling attack than us and Jimmy looks jaded after not playing much cricket , it's OK getting runs but you need to get 20 wickets, also be interesting to see who comes in for Moeen if he isn't fit .

[DAVETHEVICAR]

We obviously have to win probably 3 tests to get the Ashes back
The problem I think we have is bowling out the Aussies twice.
They won’t declare even if they get 500 by the end of day 2 and will bat us out of the game

[ChrisG]

I can't see the Aussies losing the Ashes from here , i hope i am wrong but i just think they have a stronger bowling attack than us and Jimmy looks jaded after not playing much cricket , it's OK getting runs but you need to get 20 wickets, also be interesting to see who comes in for Moeen if he isn't fit .

Anderson is carrying an injury, he picked up a groin strain playing for Lancs a few weeks back.

[JarrowClaret]

I can't see the Aussies losing the Ashes from here , i hope i am wrong but i just think they have a stronger bowling attack than us and Jimmy looks jaded after not playing much cricket , it's OK getting runs but you need to get 20 wickets, also be interesting to see who comes in for Moeen if he isn't fit .

Until the first test we had taken 20 wickets in tests for over 20 tests on the trot, we didn’t struggle creating chances our problem was taking them. I agree the Aussie bowling attack is better than ours only because of Cummings and Lyon though who are both great bowlers.

I just don’t think the pitch suited Jimmy at all I said at the start I would have played Wood instead of him in this test.

[Clive 1960]

Until the first test we had taken 20 wickets in tests for over 20 tests on the trot, we didn’t struggle creating chances our problem was taking them. I agree the Aussie bowling attack is better than ours only because of Cummings and Lyon though who are both great bowlers.

I just don’t think the pitch suited Jimmy at all I said at the start I would have played Wood instead of him in this test.

I do hope they don't rest Jimmy as he didn't over bowl in this match and i would pick Wood if is body can take it instead of Moeen who surely can't bowl with that finger.

[JarrowClaret]

I do hope they don't rest Jimmy as he didn't over bowl in this match and i would pick Wood if is body can take it instead of Moeen who surely can't bowl with that finger.

Yeh he will be chomping at the bit I think assuming he isn’t injured I think Broad and Robinson play all tests fitness permitting then Wood and Anderson rotate a bit depending on the pitch. That said Robinson needs to learn when to speak and what to say, not sure calling the Aussie 9, 10 and 11 3 genuine number 11s is the right way only going to inspire them and if anything our 9, 10 and 11 are even worse.

[Eyesofblue2]

This. The Aussies were very lucky in taking out our top two in the second innings in the few overs between rain breaks when the track was the best all match for the bowlers.

Indeed, for all the missed chances, daft declaration and rash shots, this 20 minutes or so did for us. Our openers were proceeding serenely, bat well on top of ball, until the weather interfered. No way of knowing obviously, but these two were looking good for plenty, then suddenly they were gone.

[Spijed]

With the way England now play I'm surprised Jos Buttler isn't being re-considered to play. He's certainly a far better keeper than Bairstow and it's certainly part of the mentality of Stokes and McCullum to treat parts of each test match as a one day game to keep the runs ticking over.

[Ric_C]

I thought at the time is was a strange declaration, in hindsight it was a reckless one. We should have got at least a draw from that game.

Another 50 runs would have allowed us to continue with aggressive fields on the last day and also take the new ball straight away.

The fact is, that once AUS got down to under 50 needed, Stokes went defensive with his fields and continued using the old ball, basically allowing AUS to nurdle to victory.

Massive shame, but lessons learned I hope.

[Newcastleclaret93]

It will certainly be interesting to see who starts the next test.

Got to imagine Pope and Jimmy are under pressure.

[TheFamilyCat]

It will certainly be interesting to see who starts the next test.

Got to imagine Pope and Jimmy are under pressure.

Pope is vice captain so you'd imagine will be safe. There doesn't appear to be any appetite to pick Foakes so "as you were" for the batting line up, I imagine.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Pope is vice captain so you'd imagine will be safe. There doesn't appear to be any appetite to pick Foakes so "as you were" for the batting line up, I imagine.

I find it amazing that Pope is classed as undroppable. He’s been very mediocre for a while.

I wouldn’t mind seeing Hains at some point but I suspect Dan Lawrence would be the only lad that would possibly come into the batting line up

[RVclaret]

Pope averages 13 against the Aussies so surely he’s the one to drop out.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Pope averages 13 against the Aussies so surely he’s the one to drop out.

He only averages 35. For a number 3 that is an abysmal average

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

I dont watch much cricket but ive never seen so many dropped or missed catches in such an important set of matches.

Do we have a better wicket keeper than Bairstow, we should be contemplating moving him to just bat surely?

[Bordeauxclaret]

I find it amazing that Pope is classed as undroppable. He’s been very mediocre for a while.

I wouldn’t mind seeing Hains at some point but I suspect Dan Lawrence would be the only lad that would possibly come into the batting line up

Doesnt Pope average over 40 in the last year? Even when you take out the Ireland game?

[TheFamilyCat]

I find it amazing that Pope is classed as undroppable. He’s been very mediocre for a while.

I wouldn’t mind seeing Hains at some point but I suspect Dan Lawrence would be the only lad that would possibly come into the batting line up

I didn't call him undroppable. The point I wad making is that I don't think they'd make him VC if they had question marks over his place.

[Casper2]

Is leach out for the series, what's he's injury ?

Think so

[RammyClaret61]

Here, the Aussies think Stokes was “arrogant” with his declaration. Then used the “entertaining cricket” as an easy excuse because he lost.

[dandeclaret]

With the way England now play I'm surprised Jos Buttler isn't being re-considered to play. He's certainly a far better keeper than Bairstow and it's certainly part of the mentality of Stokes and McCullum to treat parts of each test match as a one day game to keep the runs ticking over.

Dubious on the keeping, and not a red ball batsman…. More about collecting franchises now.

[nil_desperandum]

With the way England now play I'm surprised Jos Buttler isn't being re-considered to play. He's certainly a far better keeper than Bairstow and it's certainly part of the mentality of Stokes and McCullum to treat parts of each test match as a one day game to keep the runs ticking over.

Buttler Test Batting Average 31.9
Foakes 32.2
So nothing to choose between their batting, and Foakes a vastly superior keeper.

[dandeclaret]

New tai lenders podcast out now covering the first test.

[Quickenthetempo]

Buttler wanted to play traditional Test match cricket. He was one of the slowest scorers in the team.

[Clive 1960]

Got to keep the same team if all fit . I read a interesting article about Anderson not happy with the pitches saying how hard it was to bowl on it .

[jrgbfc]

Got to keep the same team if all fit . I read a interesting article about Anderson not happy with the pitches saying how hard it was to bowl on it .

But it seems like Stokes wanted a pitch like that? Must be tough for the Head Groundsman when captains/coaches start sticking their nose in instead of just letting you get on with your job.

[jdrobbo]

IMG_7365.jpegIMG_7368.jpeg


It needs two teams and we’ll miss this guy in the next month or so. What a player. I think it’ll be a drawn series, so Aussies to retain the ashes.

Ha!

And wouldn’t he have just loved the last few weeks?

[Tricky Trevor]

Could some cricket connoisseur inform me why, with replay, lbws that have pitched outside leg stump cannot be given out. If it was hitting the stumps.