Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)
Re: Mission to Burnley
But I thought I was a chatbot? Is it schoolchild or robot?
-
- Posts: 16906
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
- Been Liked: 6967 times
- Has Liked: 1484 times
- Location: Leeds
Re: Mission to Burnley
Lots of sensitive souls on here. I’m not sure whether they are intentionally missing the point or really don’t understand it. I think for most it’s the former.
Re: Mission to Burnley
Also, you draw attention to yourself when you post only to accuse someone of attempting to draw attention to themselves. You do the thing you accuse me of doing. It's the same song, just a different key. It's kind of like how a *tut* in public is as much for the tutter's gratification as it is to publicly admonish the tuttee. The *tut* is designed to be heard by all around, drawing attention to the tutter.
Re: Mission to Burnley
One thing that could be interesting as suggested by the synopsis, the line about building a football dynasty in Burnley and beyond. We might get some info straight from the horse's mouth about Burnley's place in the wider sports group ALK seem interested in building.
Of course, forgive me Father for I have sinned. It has been six months since my last confession. I have sinned, Father, I have made an inference about possible content in a documentary based on its synopsis; I confess, Father, that I had impure thoughts about Burnley FC being a part of a wider, global sports group. I know I need to follow the scripture and 'wait and see how it pans out'. I shall promise never to make such a prediction ever again. I surrender my foresight and wits and imagination to the Lord.
Of course, forgive me Father for I have sinned. It has been six months since my last confession. I have sinned, Father, I have made an inference about possible content in a documentary based on its synopsis; I confess, Father, that I had impure thoughts about Burnley FC being a part of a wider, global sports group. I know I need to follow the scripture and 'wait and see how it pans out'. I shall promise never to make such a prediction ever again. I surrender my foresight and wits and imagination to the Lord.
-
- Posts: 3468
- Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:13 pm
- Been Liked: 1040 times
- Has Liked: 2041 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
Spiral wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:14 pmFkin told you all, but nah, everyone was like 'overreaction, let's wait and see'. Front loading the synopsis with ALK, Pace and religion, the comment in the second paragraph about football being a religion itself is a call-back to the reference to religion in the first paragraph, that's gonna be a recurring theme. I told everyone, most people thought I was reading too much into it. Clear as mud what form this doc is going to take. It's not a Burnley FC doc, it's a doc about ALK/Pace/Mormon missionaries. Pace is the subject of the doc, Burnley is an object within it. Not a doc about Burnley, we just happen to be there. I deduced that from the title and trailer alone because my media literacy is apparently better than most people on here, but I expect literally zero people to turn around and say, "you know what Spiral, you were actually right, soz, and yeah, it's embarrassing to see our club used as a vehicle for some low-key religious fluffing".
So here's what happens. People now recalibrate from their original hopes of what we're getting and pretend this form of doc was their expectation all along, because they're still too excited to see some juicy behind the scenes footage and don't want to concede that they were wrong in calling me crazy when I first started entertaining myself by ranting about this around the time of the original announcement, title and trailer.
I hope your right, it could convert me
-
- Posts: 3605
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:05 am
- Been Liked: 2625 times
- Has Liked: 1 time
Re: Mission to Burnley
Now I want to watch it more than before. Reliving last season will be fun anyway, but I must have seen nearly every goal from every angle already, as well as seeing a good part of it live.
But the oddbod religious stuff is always fascinating. A behind the scenes look at one of our most enjoyable ever seasons and a bit of a Louis Theroux type look at the bizarre American cultists running it. What’s not to like?
But the oddbod religious stuff is always fascinating. A behind the scenes look at one of our most enjoyable ever seasons and a bit of a Louis Theroux type look at the bizarre American cultists running it. What’s not to like?
These 2 users liked this post: Darnhill Claret Bosscat
-
- Posts: 3233
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:36 am
- Been Liked: 1768 times
- Has Liked: 41 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
Someone call a medic.Spiral wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:13 pmOne thing that could be interesting as suggested by the synopsis, the line about building a football dynasty in Burnley and beyond. We might get some info straight from the horse's mouth about Burnley's place in the wider sports group ALK seem interested in building.
Of course, forgive me Father for I have sinned. It has been six months since my last confession. I have sinned, Father, I have made an inference about possible content in a documentary based on its synopsis; I confess, Father, that I had impure thoughts about Burnley FC being a part of a wider, global sports group. I know I need to follow the scripture and 'wait and see how it pans out'. I shall promise never to make such a prediction ever again. I surrender my foresight and wits and imagination to the Lord.
-
- Posts: 10171
- Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:59 pm
- Been Liked: 4188 times
- Has Liked: 57 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
Having read a bit more it does seem there will be a lot of focus on religion, the bit that stood out for me was the titles of each episode especially episode 2 which is titled "prayforspiral"
These 4 users liked this post: ClaretDiver Targetman Colburn_Claret GodIsADeeJay81
-
- Posts: 1203
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:47 am
- Been Liked: 577 times
- Has Liked: 171 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
For the least couple of years, Professor Alice Roberts has been wearing one while presenting her TV documentaries, along with other Norse jewellery.
I believe that people can wear what they like, and it is the same with the religion they choose to worship. You, by your own words on here, clearly don't, yet you're the one banging on about 'nazis'. How ironic.
Re: Mission to Burnley
claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 7:50 amHaving read a bit more it does seem there will be a lot of focus on religion, the bit that stood out for me was the titles of each episode especially episode 2 which is titled "prayforspiral"
Re: Mission to Burnley
I think its got beyond that now!
Re: Mission to Burnley
I guess it depends how you define bonkers. They don't seem as big on killing people who disagree with them compared to some of the major religions.CoolClaret wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:46 pmI think Mormonism and a few others take the proverbial biscuit tbh.
It’s genuinely bonkers - like frighteningly bonkers.
They aren’t open with their deepest beliefs from the off, you only get them when you’ve already drunk the koolaid.
The origin story is hilarious yet simultaneously very sad.
South Park episode on it (series 7, episode 12) is actually completely accurate - the south park writers also wrote the famous play ‘The Book of Mormon’.
In defence of Spiral here it is worth mentioning that Pace and family have also featured in the BBC documentary ‘The Mormons are coming’
-
- Posts: 4197
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:58 am
- Been Liked: 2327 times
- Has Liked: 2701 times
- Location: Isles of Scilly
Re: Mission to Burnley
I wonder if any Mormons think some of the stuff we've been teaching our kids here in Britain for the last few hundred years is a bit bonkers.
-
- Posts: 7070
- Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:50 pm
- Been Liked: 2176 times
- Has Liked: 3110 times
- Location: Praha
- Contact:
Re: Mission to Burnley
I'm going to do something quite shocking, and reserve judgement until i've actually watched the bloody thing.Spiral wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:14 pmFkin told you all, but nah, everyone was like 'overreaction, let's wait and see'. Front loading the synopsis with ALK, Pace and religion, the comment in the second paragraph about football being a religion itself is a call-back to the reference to religion in the first paragraph, that's gonna be a recurring theme. I told everyone, most people thought I was reading too much into it. Clear as mud what form this doc is going to take. It's not a Burnley FC doc, it's a doc about ALK/Pace/Mormon missionaries. Pace is the subject of the doc, Burnley is an object within it. Not a doc about Burnley, we just happen to be there. I deduced that from the title and trailer alone because my media literacy is apparently better than most people on here, but I expect literally zero people to turn around and say, "you know what Spiral, you were actually right, soz, and yeah, it's embarrassing to see our club used as a vehicle for some low-key religious fluffing".
So here's what happens. People now recalibrate from their original hopes of what we're getting and pretend this form of doc was their expectation all along, because they're still too excited to see some juicy behind the scenes footage and don't want to concede that they were wrong in calling me crazy when I first started entertaining myself by ranting about this around the time of the original announcement, title and trailer.
These 5 users liked this post: bfcjg LDNBFC87 louieollie IanMcL HandforthClaret
-
- Posts: 23343
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
- Been Liked: 8058 times
- Has Liked: 4714 times
- Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing
Re: Mission to Burnley
I am struggling to link Pace with the Mormons at the HQ in Salt Lake City I have to be honest
Visiting that place was up there as one of the most unsettling things I've seen
Visiting that place was up there as one of the most unsettling things I've seen
-
- Posts: 5797
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:52 am
- Been Liked: 1884 times
- Has Liked: 841 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
Episode 3 is titled ‘Spiral’s tin foil hat’.claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 7:50 amHaving read a bit more it does seem there will be a lot of focus on religion, the bit that stood out for me was the titles of each episode especially episode 2 which is titled "prayforspiral"
-
- Posts: 14571
- Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
- Been Liked: 3437 times
- Has Liked: 6339 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
You and your barmy ideas aren’t welcome hereŽižkovClaret wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:57 amI'm going to do something quite shocking, and reserve judgement until i've actually watched the bloody thing.
This user liked this post: IanMcL
Re: Mission to Burnley
As a practicing Mormon i can say that there are many unsettling things in this world, but our religion isnt one of us. We are transparent if asked.
These 2 users liked this post: bfcjg Bosscat
Re: Mission to Burnley
I'm always uncomfortable when people's religion and religious views are ridiculed. Religions should always be questioned but if people find a spiritual or other need fulfilled by their religion and they don't harm or try to indoctrinate others then they should be let to live as they want.
These 2 users liked this post: Colburn_Claret louieollie
-
- Posts: 7070
- Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:50 pm
- Been Liked: 2176 times
- Has Liked: 3110 times
- Location: Praha
- Contact:
-
- Posts: 596
- Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:24 am
- Been Liked: 139 times
- Has Liked: 183 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
Don't you know God always needs a lot of money? Its a theme running through all religions. Its almost if someone just makes them up for wealth and power..ŽižkovClaret wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 12:06 pmAlways?
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/21/busi ... index.html
I dont care about anyones religious beliefs as long as they don't bother me or interfere in real world problems i.e. Politics, health etc. As soon as they cross that line they are fully open to scrutiny and ridicule.
This user liked this post: Greenmile
-
- Posts: 19431
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
- Been Liked: 3166 times
- Has Liked: 481 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
There is increasing reference to football being a religion, particularly in this part of the world - even in that sky blurbVenkys4eva wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 12:19 pmDon't you know God always needs a lot of money? Its a theme running through all religions. Its almost if someone just makes them up for wealth and power..
I dont care about anyones religious beliefs as long as they don't bother me or interfere in real world problems i.e. Politics, health etc. As soon as they cross that line they are fully open to scrutiny and ridicule.
Re: Mission to Burnley
its no different to the hidden wealth the catholic church have, or the church of england for example.
-
- Posts: 14571
- Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
- Been Liked: 3437 times
- Has Liked: 6339 times
-
- Posts: 115
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:18 pm
- Been Liked: 34 times
- Has Liked: 37 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
2ps worth here.
I'm not comfortable with any group being ridiculed on a message board. Challenged fine but there is a line.
There are plenty worse things in society. Gambling, drugs abuse. The list is endless.
-
- Posts: 7467
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
- Been Liked: 2259 times
- Has Liked: 2174 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
I agree to an extent and I live and let live until views are aired and promoted, which is what is going to happen with this documentary, it’s ultimately giving air time to Mormonism (on the back of BFC), and therefore in a free society I think it’s fair that I’m allowed to have my opinion on why I’m against said promotion.bfcjg wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 11:58 amI'm always uncomfortable when people's religion and religious views are ridiculed. Religions should always be questioned but if people find a spiritual or other need fulfilled by their religion and they don't harm or try to indoctrinate others then they should be let to live as they want.
What disturbs me so much about Mormonism is the levels of evangelism that they attempt and other questionable practices such as the baptism of the dead which they regularly do.
I mean, they literally train their youth how to effectively evangelise then send them on missions around the world when 18 to try and convert people.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_missionary
It’s an incredibly dogmatic religion, with a strict ‘doctrine of obedience’ - in their faith blind repetition of scripture is really promoted and honed in on. Complete and utter brainwashing.
They aren’t quiet about their faith because they want to drop little nuggets here and there and let it fester, let it try and get to you and convert you.
I encourage people to look up more of the doctrines that they believe in and especially the origin story and their ‘prophet’ (convicted conman) Joseph Smith.
It’s a very judgmental, insular and exclusionary ‘faith’
-
- Posts: 7070
- Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:50 pm
- Been Liked: 2176 times
- Has Liked: 3110 times
- Location: Praha
- Contact:
Re: Mission to Burnley
I'd say if these groups can't stand up to a little message board japery, they ain't all that steadyClockwork Claret wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:26 pm2ps worth here.
I'm not comfortable with any group being ridiculed on a message board. Challenged fine but there is a line.
There are plenty worse things in society. Gambling, drugs abuse. The list is endless.
-
- Posts: 10171
- Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:59 pm
- Been Liked: 4188 times
- Has Liked: 57 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
CoolClaret wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:27 pmI agree to an extent and I live and let live until views are aired and promoted, which is what is going to happen with this documentary, it’s ultimately giving air time to Mormonism (on the back of BFC), and therefore in a free society I think it’s fair that I’m allowed to have my opinion on why I’m against said promotion.
What disturbs me so much about Mormonism is the levels of evangelism that they attempt and other questionable practices such as the baptism of the dead which they regularly do.
I mean, they literally train their youth how to effectively evangelise then send them on missions around the world when 18 to try and convert people.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_missionary
It’s an incredibly dogmatic religion, with a strict ‘doctrine of obedience’ - in their faith blind repetition of scripture is really promoted and honed in on. Complete and utter brainwashing.
They aren’t quiet about their faith because they want to drop little nuggets here and there and let it fester, let it try and get to you and convert you.
I encourage people to look up more of the doctrines that they believe in and especially the origin story and their ‘prophet’ (convicted conman) Joseph Smith.
It’s a very judgmental, insular and exclusionary ‘faith’
Being opposed to being judgmental it is good that you haven't judged something you haven't watched yet.
This user liked this post: Colburn_Claret
-
- Posts: 623
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:51 am
- Been Liked: 289 times
- Has Liked: 312 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
That's radical!ŽižkovClaret wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:57 amI'm going to do something quite shocking, and reserve judgement until i've actually watched the bloody thing.
-
- Posts: 7467
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
- Been Liked: 2259 times
- Has Liked: 2174 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
To an extent but it’s how they’re practiced and the doctrine and culture determines how dogmatic individuals of certain faiths tend to be.
Being trained how to evangelise and to be sent on missions as a youngster, for example is a bit different to someone that’s been baptised to get into a local CofE school or whatever.
For the record I have never been christened/baptised
-
- Posts: 623
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:51 am
- Been Liked: 289 times
- Has Liked: 312 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
I’ll save you the word salad and say yes, religions are dogmatic by their very nature.CoolClaret wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:47 pmTo an extent but it’s how they’re practiced and the doctrine and culture determines how dogmatic individuals of certain faiths tend to be.
Being trained how to evangelise and to be sent on missions as a youngster, for example is a bit different to someone that’s been baptised to get into a local CofE school or whatever.
For the record I have never been christened/baptised
You’re talking about fundamentalism.
-
- Posts: 7467
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
- Been Liked: 2259 times
- Has Liked: 2174 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
I actually disagree re all are dogmatic - some give a lot more leaning to individual learning and interpretation rather than blind obedienceRicardoMontalban wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:52 pmI’ll save you the word salad and say yes, religions are dogmatic by their very nature.
You’re talking about fundamentalism.
- Buddhism, Taoism, Baha’i, could even through Quakerism and Hunduism in there.
On fundamentalism, yes you are correct that is what I meant.
-
- Posts: 623
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:51 am
- Been Liked: 289 times
- Has Liked: 312 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
I think they are dogmatic, in the sense that there are core principles upon which the faith stands. That’s the dogma. There is obviously a wide scope as to what that may be from religion to religion, but they all share that much in common.CoolClaret wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:59 pmI actually disagree re all are dogmatic - some give a lot more leaning to individual learning and interpretation rather than blind obedience
- Buddhism, Taoism, Baha’i, could even through Quakerism and Hunduism in there.
On fundamentalism, yes you are correct that is what I meant.
-
- Posts: 7467
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
- Been Liked: 2259 times
- Has Liked: 2174 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
I know what you’re saying and agree to an extent but when certain faiths have practices and doctrines that deem certain sects of society as inferior or lesser then I think that’s a distinctive line in the sand.RicardoMontalban wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:04 pmI think they are dogmatic, in the sense that there are core principles upon which the faith stands. That’s the dogma. There is obviously a wide scope as to what that may be from religion to religion, but they all share that much in common.
Equating them all is a bit of a cop out, imo.
Re: Mission to Burnley
The sentimentality of the mind that leads people to invent religion probably will never be extinguished from the human mind. It can be moderated and sublimated if handled carefully, and in secular environments those feelings are usually channelled into something else. That primitive sentiment finds a root in football fandom for sure. If you look at this thread, you have people wilfully missing the points I'm making and tacitly accusing me of being prejudiced against Mormons, which is not the case. To spell it out clearly, my issue (to be honest it's not so much an issue as a warning to be vigilant) is with Burnley FC being yoked into a religious film without any fan consent. People are arguing live and let live without realising that through the film there is very likely to be an gentle imposition of actual religious belief happening by proxy of Burnley FC, which while not designed explicitly to convert, I imagine will be used to present Mormonism in a different light from the one it usually stands in. The religion needs to lay respectable grounds on which to base its mission. This activity takes it beyond live and let live and into the realm of evangelism (evangelism proceeds by degrees of intensity, and this activity is a low intensity version of it, but it appears to have the hallmarks of evangelism nonetheless). This is contrary to a live and let live approach. A live and live approach, this private quietism a lot of people seem to imagine when they say it, if followed sincerely would not admit to religious exposition. The argument being made is lousy.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 12:30 pmThere is increasing reference to football being a religion, particularly in this part of the world - even in that sky blurb
So why the ludicrous pushback to this all being pointed out by me? Because as I've said, the sentiment that leads people to invent and practice religion has been channelled into football. Without being consciously aware of it, people are exaggerating the insult of me pointing this out and working themselves up into a ridiculous state because retaliating to an imagined insult allows them to feel the sensation of holiness and demonstrate to themselves and their 'brothers' their piety. In this scenario I am a heretic saying heretical things. This unconscious desire to seek out heresy is part of a primitive religious sentiment that has been channelled into football. Any thing that can be perceived as at attack on the club/church and its owners/clergymen is fought hard under the misplaced belief that to assail church practices and its leaders is to assail the metaphysical and cosmological belief systems on which the club/church owes its corporeal existence. If religious sentiment leads people to invent god, and god lives through the church, it's buildings and its leaders, to assail those institutions and people is to assail god, which is to assail the sentiment itself, a sentiment people enjoy the experience of more than they hate its unreason. To deviate from church doctrine/the conduct expected of true believers (fans) laid out by scripture (football tradition) is considered a heresy, and heretics are to be cast down in order to preserve the purity of the church.
Sometimes this primitive sentiment finds form in football, sometimes it's in personality cults (including online ones), sometimes it's in political movements, but the fact remains that it never dies, even in a secular environment. This thread has been nothing short of a collective religious spasm. Bear all this in mind the next time someone appears to be grossly overreacting to any kind of fair criticism of the club.
This user liked this post: CoolClaret
-
- Posts: 23343
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
- Been Liked: 8058 times
- Has Liked: 4714 times
- Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing
Re: Mission to Burnley
I fully respect your religion but it isn't mine, and my visit to SLC 25 years ago remains as unsettling now as it was then
That is my experience unfortunately
Course, it has to be said (because one of my resident trolls has joined in and I know from bitter experience that you have to put context in or they jump all over it) that has absolutely nothing to do with whether Alan Pace is good chairman of BFC and would never be used by me as a reason to think otherwise
This user liked this post: CoolClaret
Re: Mission to Burnley
Just for the sake of not being misunderstood, let me clarify that a Mormon owning Burnley is 100% fine by me. With the notable exception of the contentious way in which the club was acquired (and of course the form of this upcoming doc which I expect to find cringeworthy), Alan Pace has otherwise been a very good chairman for us and seems like a thoroughly likeable man.
This user liked this post: 123EasyasBFC
-
- Posts: 7467
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
- Been Liked: 2259 times
- Has Liked: 2174 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
I’ll also add that so far Pace has gotten all the big decisions correct and seems to be doing really well for Burnley - which is great.
That doesn’t mean that things that I deem inappropriate can be glossed over because of the aforementioned positives.
I won’t go into it much further but I’m highly skeptical of any cross promotion of religion like this - it’s a sly tactic and I think Spiral is accurate in his assessment.
I’ll leave one of my favourite Philosophical concepts here from Karl Popper - ‘The Paradox of Tolerance’
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
That doesn’t mean that things that I deem inappropriate can be glossed over because of the aforementioned positives.
I won’t go into it much further but I’m highly skeptical of any cross promotion of religion like this - it’s a sly tactic and I think Spiral is accurate in his assessment.
I’ll leave one of my favourite Philosophical concepts here from Karl Popper - ‘The Paradox of Tolerance’
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Last edited by CoolClaret on Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 623
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:51 am
- Been Liked: 289 times
- Has Liked: 312 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
I think you’ve completely missed my point.CoolClaret wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:08 pmI know what you’re saying and agree to an extent but when certain faiths have practices and doctrines that deem certain sects of society as inferior or lesser then I think that’s a distinctive line in the sand.
Equating them all is a bit of a cop out, imo.
-
- Posts: 7467
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
- Been Liked: 2259 times
- Has Liked: 2174 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
I haven’t , I know exactly what you’re saying. At the core of all religions is a bit of dogma that’s critical to the faith and in that essence they’re all dogmatic. I understand that viewpoint completely.
-
- Posts: 3126
- Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2022 11:09 pm
- Been Liked: 622 times
- Has Liked: 184 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
You are entitled to say people need to be wary of how the documentary is portrayed but isn’t it better for everyone to actually watch the documentary first to see the final outcome of it all before making comments. Wouldn’t leaving it at be vigilant be better than having back and fourths with people.Spiral wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:20 pmThe sentimentality of the mind that leads people to invent religion probably will never be extinguished from the human mind. It can be moderated and sublimated if handled carefully, and in secular environments those feelings are usually channelled into something else. That primitive sentiment finds a root in football fandom for sure. If you look at this thread, you have people wilfully missing the points I'm making and tacitly accusing me of being prejudiced against Mormons, which is not the case. To spell it out clearly, my issue (to be honest it's not so much an issue as a warning to be vigilant) is with Burnley FC being yoked into a religious film without any fan consent. People are arguing live and let live without realising that through the film there is very likely to be an gentle imposition of actual religious belief happening by proxy of Burnley FC, which while not designed explicitly to convert, I imagine will be used to present Mormonism in a different light from the one it usually stands in. The religion needs to lay respectable grounds on which to base its mission. This activity takes it beyond live and let live and into the realm of evangelism (evangelism proceeds by degrees of intensity, and this activity is a low intensity version of it, but it appears to have the hallmarks of evangelism nonetheless). This is contrary to a live and let live approach. A live and live approach, this private quietism a lot of people seem to imagine when they say it, if followed sincerely would not admit to religious exposition. The argument being made is lousy.
So why the ludicrous pushback to this all being pointed out by me? Because as I've said, the sentiment that leads people to invent and practice religion has been channelled into football. Without being consciously aware of it, people are exaggerating the insult of me pointing this out and working themselves up into a ridiculous state because retaliating to an imagined insult allows them to feel the sensation of holiness and demonstrate to themselves and their 'brothers' their piety. In this scenario I am a heretic saying heretical things. This unconscious desire to seek out heresy is part of a primitive religious sentiment that has been channelled into football. Any thing that can be perceived as at attack on the club/church and its owners/clergymen is fought hard under the misplaced belief that to assail church practices and its leaders is to assail the metaphysical and cosmological belief systems on which the club/church owes its corporeal existence. If religious sentiment leads people to invent god, and god lives through the church, it's buildings and its leaders, to assail those institutions and people is to assail god, which is to assail the sentiment itself, a sentiment people enjoy the experience of more than they hate its unreason. To deviate from church doctrine/the conduct expected of true believers (fans) laid out by scripture (football tradition) is considered a heresy, and heretics are to be cast down in order to preserve the purity of the church.
Sometimes this primitive sentiment finds form in football, sometimes it's in personality cults (including online ones), sometimes it's in political movements, but the fact remains that it never dies, even in a secular environment. This thread has been nothing short of a collective religious spasm. Bear all this in mind the next time someone appears to be grossly overreacting to any kind of fair criticism of the club.
I’m sure if people watch it and don’t like the way the documentary comes across then people will come back on here and say you had a point.
End of the day we as fans are getting to see nearly 4 hours worth of behind the scenes stuff that we would never normally get to see, so until it’s be on we should just be excited about it
-
- Posts: 623
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:51 am
- Been Liked: 289 times
- Has Liked: 312 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
Right. That’s the only point I was making. I wasn’t making any comment on the relative merits of any religion, groovy or otherwise. All the stuff about lines in the sand etc is superfluous to my original flippant observation.CoolClaret wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:36 pmI haven’t , I know exactly what you’re saying. At the core of all religions is a bit of dogma that’s critical to the faith and in that essence they’re all dogmatic. I understand that viewpoint completely.
Anyway, I’m looking forward to the series, and, with the exception of 2001 when I put Jedi, I’ve always ticked no religion on the census form.
This user liked this post: CoolClaret
-
- Posts: 7070
- Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:50 pm
- Been Liked: 2176 times
- Has Liked: 3110 times
- Location: Praha
- Contact:
-
- Posts: 7467
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
- Been Liked: 2259 times
- Has Liked: 2174 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
May the force be with you.RicardoMontalban wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:44 pmRight. That’s the only point I was making. I wasn’t making any comment on the relative merits of any religion, groovy or otherwise. All the stuff about lines in the sand etc is superfluous to my original flippant observation.
Anyway, I’m looking forward to the series, and, with the exception of 2001 when I put Jedi, I’ve always ticked no religion on the census form.
-
- Posts: 7070
- Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:50 pm
- Been Liked: 2176 times
- Has Liked: 3110 times
- Location: Praha
- Contact:
Re: Mission to Burnley
Spiral wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:20 pmThe sentimentality of the mind that leads people to invent religion probably will never be extinguished from the human mind. It can be moderated and sublimated if handled carefully, and in secular environments those feelings are usually channelled into something else. That primitive sentiment finds a root in football fandom for sure. If you look at this thread, you have people wilfully missing the points I'm making and tacitly accusing me of being prejudiced against Mormons, which is not the case. To spell it out clearly, my issue (to be honest it's not so much an issue as a warning to be vigilant) is with Burnley FC being yoked into a religious film without any fan consent. People are arguing live and let live without realising that through the film there is very likely to be an gentle imposition of actual religious belief happening by proxy of Burnley FC, which while not designed explicitly to convert, I imagine will be used to present Mormonism in a different light from the one it usually stands in. The religion needs to lay respectable grounds on which to base its mission. This activity takes it beyond live and let live and into the realm of evangelism (evangelism proceeds by degrees of intensity, and this activity is a low intensity version of it, but it appears to have the hallmarks of evangelism nonetheless). This is contrary to a live and let live approach. A live and live approach, this private quietism a lot of people seem to imagine when they say it, if followed sincerely would not admit to religious exposition. The argument being made is lousy.
So why the ludicrous pushback to this all being pointed out by me? Because as I've said, the sentiment that leads people to invent and practice religion has been channelled into football. Without being consciously aware of it, people are exaggerating the insult of me pointing this out and working themselves up into a ridiculous state because retaliating to an imagined insult allows them to feel the sensation of holiness and demonstrate to themselves and their 'brothers' their piety. In this scenario I am a heretic saying heretical things. This unconscious desire to seek out heresy is part of a primitive religious sentiment that has been channelled into football. Any thing that can be perceived as at attack on the club/church and its owners/clergymen is fought hard under the misplaced belief that to assail church practices and its leaders is to assail the metaphysical and cosmological belief systems on which the club/church owes its corporeal existence. If religious sentiment leads people to invent god, and god lives through the church, it's buildings and its leaders, to assail those institutions and people is to assail god, which is to assail the sentiment itself, a sentiment people enjoy the experience of more than they hate its unreason. To deviate from church doctrine/the conduct expected of true believers (fans) laid out by scripture (football tradition) is considered a heresy, and heretics are to be cast down in order to preserve the purity of the church.
Sometimes this primitive sentiment finds form in football, sometimes it's in personality cults (including online ones), sometimes it's in political movements, but the fact remains that it never dies, even in a secular environment. This thread has been nothing short of a collective religious spasm. Bear all this in mind the next time someone appears to be grossly overreacting to any kind of fair criticism of the club.
Re: Mission to Burnley
Human beings are capable of forming judgements on events that are hypothetical but have not yet happened. The entire concept of a thought experiment rests on this idea. We do it so often, almost daily, and so trivially, that it goes unremarked. Your point (and the same point made by others) can be condensed to the idea that you want to defer judgement. You have that right, but recognise that you are asking that of me. You're attempting to plead with the 'heretic'. The way this is expressed by some on here has the mark of the phenomenon I spelled out in the post you quoted. The demand to reserve judgement is a defence of the church. Anyone NOT of this disposition, this state of mind, this religious sentiment (expressed through football) would, I highly suspect, be more relaxed about my judgement, so uninterested in putting up a defence of the church that they'd be not remotely inclined to bother attacking my point at all. It is precisely because people on here are so full of this sentimentality I describe that their rebuttals are so passionate, it is precisely because of this sentimentality that they plead with me/demand I defer judgement, because this premature judgement is believed to harm the church. At this moment, this is the most convenient ground on which to reject what I'm saying, but please do understand that it springs from the sentiment I describe. I think some people who place themselves above religion would be slightly embarrassed to find out they are still being led by a sublimated religious sentiment that exists in all people (even me).123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:36 pmYou are entitled to say people need to be wary of how the documentary is portrayed but isn’t it better for everyone to actually watch the documentary first to see the final outcome of it all before making comments. Wouldn’t leaving it at be vigilant be better than having back and fourths with people.
I’m sure if people watch it and don’t like the way the documentary comes across then people will come back on here and say you had a point.
End of the day we as fans are getting to see nearly 4 hours worth of behind the scenes stuff that we would never normally get to see, so until it’s be on we should just be excited about it
-
- Posts: 1071
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:19 pm
- Been Liked: 385 times
- Has Liked: 16 times
Re: Mission to Burnley
Look at me everyone,Spiral wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:20 pmThe sentimentality of the mind that leads people to invent religion probably will never be extinguished from the human mind. It can be moderated and sublimated if handled carefully, and in secular environments those feelings are usually channelled into something else. That primitive sentiment finds a root in football fandom for sure. If you look at this thread, you have people wilfully missing the points I'm making and tacitly accusing me of being prejudiced against Mormons, which is not the case. To spell it out clearly, my issue (to be honest it's not so much an issue as a warning to be vigilant) is with Burnley FC being yoked into a religious film without any fan consent. People are arguing live and let live without realising that through the film there is very likely to be an gentle imposition of actual religious belief happening by proxy of Burnley FC, which while not designed explicitly to convert, I imagine will be used to present Mormonism in a different light from the one it usually stands in. The religion needs to lay respectable grounds on which to base its mission. This activity takes it beyond live and let live and into the realm of evangelism (evangelism proceeds by degrees of intensity, and this activity is a low intensity version of it, but it appears to have the hallmarks of evangelism nonetheless). This is contrary to a live and let live approach. A live and live approach, this private quietism a lot of people seem to imagine when they say it, if followed sincerely would not admit to religious exposition. The argument being made is lousy.
So why the ludicrous pushback to this all being pointed out by me? Because as I've said, the sentiment that leads people to invent and practice religion has been channelled into football. Without being consciously aware of it, people are exaggerating the insult of me pointing this out and working themselves up into a ridiculous state because retaliating to an imagined insult allows them to feel the sensation of holiness and demonstrate to themselves and their 'brothers' their piety. In this scenario I am a heretic saying heretical things. This unconscious desire to seek out heresy is part of a primitive religious sentiment that has been channelled into football. Any thing that can be perceived as at attack on the club/church and its owners/clergymen is fought hard under the misplaced belief that to assail church practices and its leaders is to assail the metaphysical and cosmological belief systems on which the club/church owes its corporeal existence. If religious sentiment leads people to invent god, and god lives through the church, it's buildings and its leaders, to assail those institutions and people is to assail god, which is to assail the sentiment itself, a sentiment people enjoy the experience of more than they hate its unreason. To deviate from church doctrine/the conduct expected of true believers (fans) laid out by scripture (football tradition) is considered a heresy, and heretics are to be cast down in order to preserve the purity of the church.
Sometimes this primitive sentiment finds form in football, sometimes it's in personality cults (including online ones), sometimes it's in political movements, but the fact remains that it never dies, even in a secular environment. This thread has been nothing short of a collective religious spasm. Bear all this in mind the next time someone appears to be grossly overreacting to any kind of fair criticism of the club.
Look at me!
Re: Mission to Burnley
You're doing the same thing by posting that.