Mission to Burnley (including spoilers from page 9)

[Spiral]

But I thought I was a chatbot? Is it schoolchild or robot?

[Rileybobs]

Lots of sensitive souls on here. I’m not sure whether they are intentionally missing the point or really don’t understand it. I think for most it’s the former.

[Spiral]

The look at me one I think. There will be more of this unfortunately until the schools go back in September.

Also, you draw attention to yourself when you post only to accuse someone of attempting to draw attention to themselves. You do the thing you accuse me of doing. It's the same song, just a different key. It's kind of like how a *tut* in public is as much for the tutter's gratification as it is to publicly admonish the tuttee. The *tut* is designed to be heard by all around, drawing attention to the tutter.

[Spiral]

One thing that could be interesting as suggested by the synopsis, the line about building a football dynasty in Burnley and beyond. We might get some info straight from the horse's mouth about Burnley's place in the wider sports group ALK seem interested in building.

Of course, forgive me Father for I have sinned. It has been six months since my last confession. I have sinned, Father, I have made an inference about possible content in a documentary based on its synopsis; I confess, Father, that I had impure thoughts about Burnley FC being a part of a wider, global sports group. I know I need to follow the scripture and 'wait and see how it pans out'. I shall promise never to make such a prediction ever again. I surrender my foresight and wits and imagination to the Lord.

[THEWELLERNUT70]

Fkin told you all, but nah, everyone was like 'overreaction, let's wait and see'. Front loading the synopsis with ALK, Pace and religion, the comment in the second paragraph about football being a religion itself is a call-back to the reference to religion in the first paragraph, that's gonna be a recurring theme. I told everyone, most people thought I was reading too much into it. Clear as mud what form this doc is going to take. It's not a Burnley FC doc, it's a doc about ALK/Pace/Mormon missionaries. Pace is the subject of the doc, Burnley is an object within it. Not a doc about Burnley, we just happen to be there. I deduced that from the title and trailer alone because my media literacy is apparently better than most people on here, but I expect literally zero people to turn around and say, "you know what Spiral, you were actually right, soz, and yeah, it's embarrassing to see our club used as a vehicle for some low-key religious fluffing".

So here's what happens. People now recalibrate from their original hopes of what we're getting and pretend this form of doc was their expectation all along, because they're still too excited to see some juicy behind the scenes footage and don't want to concede that they were wrong in calling me crazy when I first started entertaining myself by ranting about this around the time of the original announcement, title and trailer.

I hope your right, it could convert me

[NottsClaret]

Now I want to watch it more than before. Reliving last season will be fun anyway, but I must have seen nearly every goal from every angle already, as well as seeing a good part of it live.

But the oddbod religious stuff is always fascinating. A behind the scenes look at one of our most enjoyable ever seasons and a bit of a Louis Theroux type look at the bizarre American cultists running it. What’s not to like?

[arise_sir_charge]

One thing that could be interesting as suggested by the synopsis, the line about building a football dynasty in Burnley and beyond. We might get some info straight from the horse's mouth about Burnley's place in the wider sports group ALK seem interested in building.

Of course, forgive me Father for I have sinned. It has been six months since my last confession. I have sinned, Father, I have made an inference about possible content in a documentary based on its synopsis; I confess, Father, that I had impure thoughts about Burnley FC being a part of a wider, global sports group. I know I need to follow the scripture and 'wait and see how it pans out'. I shall promise never to make such a prediction ever again. I surrender my foresight and wits and imagination to the Lord.

Someone call a medic.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Having read a bit more it does seem there will be a lot of focus on religion, the bit that stood out for me was the titles of each episode especially episode 2 which is titled "prayforspiral"

[Clovius Boofus]

The Thor's hammer symbol has been appropriated by neo-nazis, the b@stards.

For the least couple of years, Professor Alice Roberts has been wearing one while presenting her TV documentaries, along with other Norse jewellery.

I believe that people can wear what they like, and it is the same with the religion they choose to worship. You, by your own words on here, clearly don't, yet you're the one banging on about 'nazis'. How ironic.

[Bosscat]

Having read a bit more it does seem there will be a lot of focus on religion, the bit that stood out for me was the titles of each episode especially episode 2 which is titled "prayforspiral"

[Targetman]

Someone call a medic.

I think its got beyond that now!

[aggi]

I think Mormonism and a few others take the proverbial biscuit tbh.

It’s genuinely bonkers - like frighteningly bonkers.

They aren’t open with their deepest beliefs from the off, you only get them when you’ve already drunk the koolaid.

The origin story is hilarious yet simultaneously very sad.

South Park episode on it (series 7, episode 12) is actually completely accurate - the south park writers also wrote the famous play ‘The Book of Mormon’.

In defence of Spiral here it is worth mentioning that Pace and family have also featured in the BBC documentary ‘The Mormons are coming’

I guess it depends how you define bonkers. They don't seem as big on killing people who disagree with them compared to some of the major religions.

[fatboy47]

I wonder if any Mormons think some of the stuff we've been teaching our kids here in Britain for the last few hundred years is a bit bonkers.

[ŽižkovClaret]

Fkin told you all, but nah, everyone was like 'overreaction, let's wait and see'. Front loading the synopsis with ALK, Pace and religion, the comment in the second paragraph about football being a religion itself is a call-back to the reference to religion in the first paragraph, that's gonna be a recurring theme. I told everyone, most people thought I was reading too much into it. Clear as mud what form this doc is going to take. It's not a Burnley FC doc, it's a doc about ALK/Pace/Mormon missionaries. Pace is the subject of the doc, Burnley is an object within it. Not a doc about Burnley, we just happen to be there. I deduced that from the title and trailer alone because my media literacy is apparently better than most people on here, but I expect literally zero people to turn around and say, "you know what Spiral, you were actually right, soz, and yeah, it's embarrassing to see our club used as a vehicle for some low-key religious fluffing".

So here's what happens. People now recalibrate from their original hopes of what we're getting and pretend this form of doc was their expectation all along, because they're still too excited to see some juicy behind the scenes footage and don't want to concede that they were wrong in calling me crazy when I first started entertaining myself by ranting about this around the time of the original announcement, title and trailer.

I'm going to do something quite shocking, and reserve judgement until i've actually watched the bloody thing.

[Lancasterclaret]

I am struggling to link Pace with the Mormons at the HQ in Salt Lake City I have to be honest

Visiting that place was up there as one of the most unsettling things I've seen

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Having read a bit more it does seem there will be a lot of focus on religion, the bit that stood out for me was the titles of each episode especially episode 2 which is titled "prayforspiral"

Episode 3 is titled ‘Spiral’s tin foil hat’.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I'm going to do something quite shocking, and reserve judgement until i've actually watched the bloody thing.

You and your barmy ideas aren’t welcome here

[GetIntoEm]

As a practicing Mormon i can say that there are many unsettling things in this world, but our religion isnt one of us. We are transparent if asked.

[bfcjg]

I'm always uncomfortable when people's religion and religious views are ridiculed. Religions should always be questioned but if people find a spiritual or other need fulfilled by their religion and they don't harm or try to indoctrinate others then they should be let to live as they want.

[ŽižkovClaret]

As a practicing Mormon i can say that there are many unsettling things in this world, but our religion isnt one of us. We are transparent if asked.

Always?

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/21/busi ... index.html

[Venkys4eva]

Always?

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/21/busi ... index.html

Don't you know God always needs a lot of money? Its a theme running through all religions. Its almost if someone just makes them up for wealth and power..

I dont care about anyones religious beliefs as long as they don't bother me or interfere in real world problems i.e. Politics, health etc. As soon as they cross that line they are fully open to scrutiny and ridicule.

[Chester Perry]

Don't you know God always needs a lot of money? Its a theme running through all religions. Its almost if someone just makes them up for wealth and power..

I dont care about anyones religious beliefs as long as they don't bother me or interfere in real world problems i.e. Politics, health etc. As soon as they cross that line they are fully open to scrutiny and ridicule.

There is increasing reference to football being a religion, particularly in this part of the world - even in that sky blurb

[GetIntoEm]

its no different to the hidden wealth the catholic church have, or the church of england for example.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

its no different to the hidden wealth the catholic church have, or the church of england for example.

Speaking of the CoE, they charge adults £16 to get into Canterbury cathedral
I settled for a picture of the outside and moved on

[Clockwork Claret]

its no different to the hidden wealth the catholic church have, or the church of england for example.

2ps worth here.

I'm not comfortable with any group being ridiculed on a message board. Challenged fine but there is a line.

There are plenty worse things in society. Gambling, drugs abuse. The list is endless.

[CoolClaret]

I'm always uncomfortable when people's religion and religious views are ridiculed. Religions should always be questioned but if people find a spiritual or other need fulfilled by their religion and they don't harm or try to indoctrinate others then they should be let to live as they want.

I agree to an extent and I live and let live until views are aired and promoted, which is what is going to happen with this documentary, it’s ultimately giving air time to Mormonism (on the back of BFC), and therefore in a free society I think it’s fair that I’m allowed to have my opinion on why I’m against said promotion.

What disturbs me so much about Mormonism is the levels of evangelism that they attempt and other questionable practices such as the baptism of the dead which they regularly do.

I mean, they literally train their youth how to effectively evangelise then send them on missions around the world when 18 to try and convert people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_missionary

It’s an incredibly dogmatic religion, with a strict ‘doctrine of obedience’ - in their faith blind repetition of scripture is really promoted and honed in on. Complete and utter brainwashing.

They aren’t quiet about their faith because they want to drop little nuggets here and there and let it fester, let it try and get to you and convert you.

I encourage people to look up more of the doctrines that they believe in and especially the origin story and their ‘prophet’ (convicted conman) Joseph Smith.

It’s a very judgmental, insular and exclusionary ‘faith’

[ŽižkovClaret]

2ps worth here.

I'm not comfortable with any group being ridiculed on a message board. Challenged fine but there is a line.

There are plenty worse things in society. Gambling, drugs abuse. The list is endless.

I'd say if these groups can't stand up to a little message board japery, they ain't all that steady

[claretonthecoast1882]

I agree to an extent and I live and let live until views are aired and promoted, which is what is going to happen with this documentary, it’s ultimately giving air time to Mormonism (on the back of BFC), and therefore in a free society I think it’s fair that I’m allowed to have my opinion on why I’m against said promotion.

What disturbs me so much about Mormonism is the levels of evangelism that they attempt and other questionable practices such as the baptism of the dead which they regularly do.

I mean, they literally train their youth how to effectively evangelise then send them on missions around the world when 18 to try and convert people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_missionary

It’s an incredibly dogmatic religion, with a strict ‘doctrine of obedience’ - in their faith blind repetition of scripture is really promoted and honed in on. Complete and utter brainwashing.

They aren’t quiet about their faith because they want to drop little nuggets here and there and let it fester, let it try and get to you and convert you.

I encourage people to look up more of the doctrines that they believe in and especially the origin story and their ‘prophet’ (convicted conman) Joseph Smith.

It’s a very judgmental, insular and exclusionary ‘faith’

Being opposed to being judgmental it is good that you haven't judged something you haven't watched yet.

[RicardoMontalban]

Aren’t all religions dogmatic?

[IanMcL]

I'm going to do something quite shocking, and reserve judgement until i've actually watched the bloody thing.

That's radical!

[CoolClaret]

Aren’t all religions dogmatic?

To an extent but it’s how they’re practiced and the doctrine and culture determines how dogmatic individuals of certain faiths tend to be.

Being trained how to evangelise and to be sent on missions as a youngster, for example is a bit different to someone that’s been baptised to get into a local CofE school or whatever.

For the record I have never been christened/baptised

[RicardoMontalban]

To an extent but it’s how they’re practiced and the doctrine and culture determines how dogmatic individuals of certain faiths tend to be.

Being trained how to evangelise and to be sent on missions as a youngster, for example is a bit different to someone that’s been baptised to get into a local CofE school or whatever.

For the record I have never been christened/baptised

I’ll save you the word salad and say yes, religions are dogmatic by their very nature.

You’re talking about fundamentalism.

[CoolClaret]

I’ll save you the word salad and say yes, religions are dogmatic by their very nature.

You’re talking about fundamentalism.

I actually disagree re all are dogmatic - some give a lot more leaning to individual learning and interpretation rather than blind obedience

- Buddhism, Taoism, Baha’i, could even through Quakerism and Hunduism in there.

On fundamentalism, yes you are correct that is what I meant.

[RicardoMontalban]

I actually disagree re all are dogmatic - some give a lot more leaning to individual learning and interpretation rather than blind obedience

- Buddhism, Taoism, Baha’i, could even through Quakerism and Hunduism in there.

On fundamentalism, yes you are correct that is what I meant.

I think they are dogmatic, in the sense that there are core principles upon which the faith stands. That’s the dogma. There is obviously a wide scope as to what that may be from religion to religion, but they all share that much in common.

[Elizabeth]

As a practicing Mormon i can say that there are many unsettling things in this world, but our religion isnt one of us. We are transparent if asked.

This has been stirred up by one or two posters and is beyond acceptance as a talking point.

[CoolClaret]

I think they are dogmatic, in the sense that there are core principles upon which the faith stands. That’s the dogma. There is obviously a wide scope as to what that may be from religion to religion, but they all share that much in common.

I know what you’re saying and agree to an extent but when certain faiths have practices and doctrines that deem certain sects of society as inferior or lesser then I think that’s a distinctive line in the sand.

Equating them all is a bit of a cop out, imo.

[Spiral]

There is increasing reference to football being a religion, particularly in this part of the world - even in that sky blurb

The sentimentality of the mind that leads people to invent religion probably will never be extinguished from the human mind. It can be moderated and sublimated if handled carefully, and in secular environments those feelings are usually channelled into something else. That primitive sentiment finds a root in football fandom for sure. If you look at this thread, you have people wilfully missing the points I'm making and tacitly accusing me of being prejudiced against Mormons, which is not the case. To spell it out clearly, my issue (to be honest it's not so much an issue as a warning to be vigilant) is with Burnley FC being yoked into a religious film without any fan consent. People are arguing live and let live without realising that through the film there is very likely to be an gentle imposition of actual religious belief happening by proxy of Burnley FC, which while not designed explicitly to convert, I imagine will be used to present Mormonism in a different light from the one it usually stands in. The religion needs to lay respectable grounds on which to base its mission. This activity takes it beyond live and let live and into the realm of evangelism (evangelism proceeds by degrees of intensity, and this activity is a low intensity version of it, but it appears to have the hallmarks of evangelism nonetheless). This is contrary to a live and let live approach. A live and live approach, this private quietism a lot of people seem to imagine when they say it, if followed sincerely would not admit to religious exposition. The argument being made is lousy.

So why the ludicrous pushback to this all being pointed out by me? Because as I've said, the sentiment that leads people to invent and practice religion has been channelled into football. Without being consciously aware of it, people are exaggerating the insult of me pointing this out and working themselves up into a ridiculous state because retaliating to an imagined insult allows them to feel the sensation of holiness and demonstrate to themselves and their 'brothers' their piety. In this scenario I am a heretic saying heretical things. This unconscious desire to seek out heresy is part of a primitive religious sentiment that has been channelled into football. Any thing that can be perceived as at attack on the club/church and its owners/clergymen is fought hard under the misplaced belief that to assail church practices and its leaders is to assail the metaphysical and cosmological belief systems on which the club/church owes its corporeal existence. If religious sentiment leads people to invent god, and god lives through the church, it's buildings and its leaders, to assail those institutions and people is to assail god, which is to assail the sentiment itself, a sentiment people enjoy the experience of more than they hate its unreason. To deviate from church doctrine/the conduct expected of true believers (fans) laid out by scripture (football tradition) is considered a heresy, and heretics are to be cast down in order to preserve the purity of the church.

Sometimes this primitive sentiment finds form in football, sometimes it's in personality cults (including online ones), sometimes it's in political movements, but the fact remains that it never dies, even in a secular environment. This thread has been nothing short of a collective religious spasm. Bear all this in mind the next time someone appears to be grossly overreacting to any kind of fair criticism of the club.

[Lancasterclaret]

As a practicing Mormon i can say that there are many unsettling things in this world, but our religion isnt one of us. We are transparent if asked.

I fully respect your religion but it isn't mine, and my visit to SLC 25 years ago remains as unsettling now as it was then

That is my experience unfortunately

Course, it has to be said (because one of my resident trolls has joined in and I know from bitter experience that you have to put context in or they jump all over it) that has absolutely nothing to do with whether Alan Pace is good chairman of BFC and would never be used by me as a reason to think otherwise

[Spiral]

Just for the sake of not being misunderstood, let me clarify that a Mormon owning Burnley is 100% fine by me. With the notable exception of the contentious way in which the club was acquired (and of course the form of this upcoming doc which I expect to find cringeworthy), Alan Pace has otherwise been a very good chairman for us and seems like a thoroughly likeable man.

[CoolClaret]

I’ll also add that so far Pace has gotten all the big decisions correct and seems to be doing really well for Burnley - which is great.

That doesn’t mean that things that I deem inappropriate can be glossed over because of the aforementioned positives.

I won’t go into it much further but I’m highly skeptical of any cross promotion of religion like this - it’s a sly tactic and I think Spiral is accurate in his assessment.

I’ll leave one of my favourite Philosophical concepts here from Karl Popper - ‘The Paradox of Tolerance’

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

[RicardoMontalban]

I know what you’re saying and agree to an extent but when certain faiths have practices and doctrines that deem certain sects of society as inferior or lesser then I think that’s a distinctive line in the sand.

Equating them all is a bit of a cop out, imo.

I think you’ve completely missed my point.

[CoolClaret]

I think you’ve completely missed my point.

I haven’t , I know exactly what you’re saying. At the core of all religions is a bit of dogma that’s critical to the faith and in that essence they’re all dogmatic. I understand that viewpoint completely.

[123EasyasBFC]

The sentimentality of the mind that leads people to invent religion probably will never be extinguished from the human mind. It can be moderated and sublimated if handled carefully, and in secular environments those feelings are usually channelled into something else. That primitive sentiment finds a root in football fandom for sure. If you look at this thread, you have people wilfully missing the points I'm making and tacitly accusing me of being prejudiced against Mormons, which is not the case. To spell it out clearly, my issue (to be honest it's not so much an issue as a warning to be vigilant) is with Burnley FC being yoked into a religious film without any fan consent. People are arguing live and let live without realising that through the film there is very likely to be an gentle imposition of actual religious belief happening by proxy of Burnley FC, which while not designed explicitly to convert, I imagine will be used to present Mormonism in a different light from the one it usually stands in. The religion needs to lay respectable grounds on which to base its mission. This activity takes it beyond live and let live and into the realm of evangelism (evangelism proceeds by degrees of intensity, and this activity is a low intensity version of it, but it appears to have the hallmarks of evangelism nonetheless). This is contrary to a live and let live approach. A live and live approach, this private quietism a lot of people seem to imagine when they say it, if followed sincerely would not admit to religious exposition. The argument being made is lousy.

So why the ludicrous pushback to this all being pointed out by me? Because as I've said, the sentiment that leads people to invent and practice religion has been channelled into football. Without being consciously aware of it, people are exaggerating the insult of me pointing this out and working themselves up into a ridiculous state because retaliating to an imagined insult allows them to feel the sensation of holiness and demonstrate to themselves and their 'brothers' their piety. In this scenario I am a heretic saying heretical things. This unconscious desire to seek out heresy is part of a primitive religious sentiment that has been channelled into football. Any thing that can be perceived as at attack on the club/church and its owners/clergymen is fought hard under the misplaced belief that to assail church practices and its leaders is to assail the metaphysical and cosmological belief systems on which the club/church owes its corporeal existence. If religious sentiment leads people to invent god, and god lives through the church, it's buildings and its leaders, to assail those institutions and people is to assail god, which is to assail the sentiment itself, a sentiment people enjoy the experience of more than they hate its unreason. To deviate from church doctrine/the conduct expected of true believers (fans) laid out by scripture (football tradition) is considered a heresy, and heretics are to be cast down in order to preserve the purity of the church.

Sometimes this primitive sentiment finds form in football, sometimes it's in personality cults (including online ones), sometimes it's in political movements, but the fact remains that it never dies, even in a secular environment. This thread has been nothing short of a collective religious spasm. Bear all this in mind the next time someone appears to be grossly overreacting to any kind of fair criticism of the club.

You are entitled to say people need to be wary of how the documentary is portrayed but isn’t it better for everyone to actually watch the documentary first to see the final outcome of it all before making comments. Wouldn’t leaving it at be vigilant be better than having back and fourths with people.

I’m sure if people watch it and don’t like the way the documentary comes across then people will come back on here and say you had a point.

End of the day we as fans are getting to see nearly 4 hours worth of behind the scenes stuff that we would never normally get to see, so until it’s be on we should just be excited about it

[RicardoMontalban]

I haven’t , I know exactly what you’re saying. At the core of all religions is a bit of dogma that’s critical to the faith and in that essence they’re all dogmatic. I understand that viewpoint completely.

Right. That’s the only point I was making. I wasn’t making any comment on the relative merits of any religion, groovy or otherwise. All the stuff about lines in the sand etc is superfluous to my original flippant observation.

Anyway, I’m looking forward to the series, and, with the exception of 2001 when I put Jedi, I’ve always ticked no religion on the census form.

[ŽižkovClaret]

its no different to the hidden wealth the catholic church have, or the church of england for example.

Well, i think you can guess my position on those too.

[CoolClaret]

Right. That’s the only point I was making. I wasn’t making any comment on the relative merits of any religion, groovy or otherwise. All the stuff about lines in the sand etc is superfluous to my original flippant observation.

Anyway, I’m looking forward to the series, and, with the exception of 2001 when I put Jedi, I’ve always ticked no religion on the census form.

May the force be with you.

[ŽižkovClaret]

The sentimentality of the mind that leads people to invent religion probably will never be extinguished from the human mind. It can be moderated and sublimated if handled carefully, and in secular environments those feelings are usually channelled into something else. That primitive sentiment finds a root in football fandom for sure. If you look at this thread, you have people wilfully missing the points I'm making and tacitly accusing me of being prejudiced against Mormons, which is not the case. To spell it out clearly, my issue (to be honest it's not so much an issue as a warning to be vigilant) is with Burnley FC being yoked into a religious film without any fan consent. People are arguing live and let live without realising that through the film there is very likely to be an gentle imposition of actual religious belief happening by proxy of Burnley FC, which while not designed explicitly to convert, I imagine will be used to present Mormonism in a different light from the one it usually stands in. The religion needs to lay respectable grounds on which to base its mission. This activity takes it beyond live and let live and into the realm of evangelism (evangelism proceeds by degrees of intensity, and this activity is a low intensity version of it, but it appears to have the hallmarks of evangelism nonetheless). This is contrary to a live and let live approach. A live and live approach, this private quietism a lot of people seem to imagine when they say it, if followed sincerely would not admit to religious exposition. The argument being made is lousy.

So why the ludicrous pushback to this all being pointed out by me? Because as I've said, the sentiment that leads people to invent and practice religion has been channelled into football. Without being consciously aware of it, people are exaggerating the insult of me pointing this out and working themselves up into a ridiculous state because retaliating to an imagined insult allows them to feel the sensation of holiness and demonstrate to themselves and their 'brothers' their piety. In this scenario I am a heretic saying heretical things. This unconscious desire to seek out heresy is part of a primitive religious sentiment that has been channelled into football. Any thing that can be perceived as at attack on the club/church and its owners/clergymen is fought hard under the misplaced belief that to assail church practices and its leaders is to assail the metaphysical and cosmological belief systems on which the club/church owes its corporeal existence. If religious sentiment leads people to invent god, and god lives through the church, it's buildings and its leaders, to assail those institutions and people is to assail god, which is to assail the sentiment itself, a sentiment people enjoy the experience of more than they hate its unreason. To deviate from church doctrine/the conduct expected of true believers (fans) laid out by scripture (football tradition) is considered a heresy, and heretics are to be cast down in order to preserve the purity of the church.

Sometimes this primitive sentiment finds form in football, sometimes it's in personality cults (including online ones), sometimes it's in political movements, but the fact remains that it never dies, even in a secular environment. This thread has been nothing short of a collective religious spasm. Bear all this in mind the next time someone appears to be grossly overreacting to any kind of fair criticism of the club.

[Spiral]

You are entitled to say people need to be wary of how the documentary is portrayed but isn’t it better for everyone to actually watch the documentary first to see the final outcome of it all before making comments. Wouldn’t leaving it at be vigilant be better than having back and fourths with people.

I’m sure if people watch it and don’t like the way the documentary comes across then people will come back on here and say you had a point.

End of the day we as fans are getting to see nearly 4 hours worth of behind the scenes stuff that we would never normally get to see, so until it’s be on we should just be excited about it

Human beings are capable of forming judgements on events that are hypothetical but have not yet happened. The entire concept of a thought experiment rests on this idea. We do it so often, almost daily, and so trivially, that it goes unremarked. Your point (and the same point made by others) can be condensed to the idea that you want to defer judgement. You have that right, but recognise that you are asking that of me. You're attempting to plead with the 'heretic'. The way this is expressed by some on here has the mark of the phenomenon I spelled out in the post you quoted. The demand to reserve judgement is a defence of the church. Anyone NOT of this disposition, this state of mind, this religious sentiment (expressed through football) would, I highly suspect, be more relaxed about my judgement, so uninterested in putting up a defence of the church that they'd be not remotely inclined to bother attacking my point at all. It is precisely because people on here are so full of this sentimentality I describe that their rebuttals are so passionate, it is precisely because of this sentimentality that they plead with me/demand I defer judgement, because this premature judgement is believed to harm the church. At this moment, this is the most convenient ground on which to reject what I'm saying, but please do understand that it springs from the sentiment I describe. I think some people who place themselves above religion would be slightly embarrassed to find out they are still being led by a sublimated religious sentiment that exists in all people (even me).

[CaptainKirk]

The sentimentality of the mind that leads people to invent religion probably will never be extinguished from the human mind. It can be moderated and sublimated if handled carefully, and in secular environments those feelings are usually channelled into something else. That primitive sentiment finds a root in football fandom for sure. If you look at this thread, you have people wilfully missing the points I'm making and tacitly accusing me of being prejudiced against Mormons, which is not the case. To spell it out clearly, my issue (to be honest it's not so much an issue as a warning to be vigilant) is with Burnley FC being yoked into a religious film without any fan consent. People are arguing live and let live without realising that through the film there is very likely to be an gentle imposition of actual religious belief happening by proxy of Burnley FC, which while not designed explicitly to convert, I imagine will be used to present Mormonism in a different light from the one it usually stands in. The religion needs to lay respectable grounds on which to base its mission. This activity takes it beyond live and let live and into the realm of evangelism (evangelism proceeds by degrees of intensity, and this activity is a low intensity version of it, but it appears to have the hallmarks of evangelism nonetheless). This is contrary to a live and let live approach. A live and live approach, this private quietism a lot of people seem to imagine when they say it, if followed sincerely would not admit to religious exposition. The argument being made is lousy.

So why the ludicrous pushback to this all being pointed out by me? Because as I've said, the sentiment that leads people to invent and practice religion has been channelled into football. Without being consciously aware of it, people are exaggerating the insult of me pointing this out and working themselves up into a ridiculous state because retaliating to an imagined insult allows them to feel the sensation of holiness and demonstrate to themselves and their 'brothers' their piety. In this scenario I am a heretic saying heretical things. This unconscious desire to seek out heresy is part of a primitive religious sentiment that has been channelled into football. Any thing that can be perceived as at attack on the club/church and its owners/clergymen is fought hard under the misplaced belief that to assail church practices and its leaders is to assail the metaphysical and cosmological belief systems on which the club/church owes its corporeal existence. If religious sentiment leads people to invent god, and god lives through the church, it's buildings and its leaders, to assail those institutions and people is to assail god, which is to assail the sentiment itself, a sentiment people enjoy the experience of more than they hate its unreason. To deviate from church doctrine/the conduct expected of true believers (fans) laid out by scripture (football tradition) is considered a heresy, and heretics are to be cast down in order to preserve the purity of the church.

Sometimes this primitive sentiment finds form in football, sometimes it's in personality cults (including online ones), sometimes it's in political movements, but the fact remains that it never dies, even in a secular environment. This thread has been nothing short of a collective religious spasm. Bear all this in mind the next time someone appears to be grossly overreacting to any kind of fair criticism of the club.

Look at me everyone,
Look at me!

[Spiral]

Look at me everyone,
Look at me!

You're doing the same thing by posting that.