Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
Apology and Ref dropped after Utd keeper wipes out Wolves player,what happened when Krull wiped out Vydra ? Sweet F___k All.
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
Still furious about that. The most blatant of pens I have ever seen. Relegated us ultimately.
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
I don’t get why it’s so bad?
We can all see it as it happens………..
You rarely see the same, if any similar mistakes in rugby or cricket……..
It’s almost like a cricketer dropping a catch, but the umpire dismissing the batsman and Hawkeye saying nothing…….
We can all see it as it happens………..
You rarely see the same, if any similar mistakes in rugby or cricket……..
It’s almost like a cricketer dropping a catch, but the umpire dismissing the batsman and Hawkeye saying nothing…….
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
All well and good apologising but Wolves have still been denied a penalty which could have given them a point and yet again a "big" club benefit from scandalously bad refereeing;quite a common thing at Old Trafford.
IMO obviously!
IMO obviously!
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
I seem to vaguely remember a similar challenge a couple of years back - dead cert pen and sending off.
Was it v Norwich?
Memory is not what it was.
Was it v Norwich?
Memory is not what it was.
Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
Pictures circulating of Moss, Webb and Atkinson in United's hospitality suite at the game last night.... Don't upset the big boys!!!
Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
Completely pointless since the damage has been done
Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
Why would the ref be dropped, my understanding was that var didn’t tell him to go and look at the monitor, assuming he had a decent view he didn’t think there was anything in it. Wouldn’t var at that point tell him to go and have a look and wouldn’t Hooper be saying to var immediately after it happened “ what did it look like to you” or words to that effect, don’t forget Hooper would only see it in for a split second in real time, no replays and his view would depend on where he was stood at that time.
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
I think the quick and decisive action by the PGMOL along with the apology is a good step forward. If I had a penny for how many times people on here moaned about the refs sticking up for their own I'd have a lot of bloody pennies so we should recognise and welcome the PGMOL response as a real improvement and good step forward.
Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
The argument was the Krull had got the slightest of touches on the ball and therefore it wasn’t a foul. Replays showed it may have grazed his glove but there was no mention that maybe the keeper walloping two fists into a players head may just be dangerous and cause serious injury. Keepers seem to get away with a lot.
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
VAR is quite expensive to clubs and often fails to do it's job properly.
Clubs should stop funding it until they put the incidents on the big screen, with footage of the VAR making the decision.
Or you will still hear allegations of corruption every week.
Clubs should stop funding it until they put the incidents on the big screen, with footage of the VAR making the decision.
Or you will still hear allegations of corruption every week.
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
THE VAR and refs need to be mic'd up as we need far greater transparency for this to be sustainable.
At the moment it feels like the "checking club badge..." meme is spot on
At the moment it feels like the "checking club badge..." meme is spot on
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
The first rule of VAR appears sometimes to be "what is the colour of the shirt." I think VAR can eliminate this risk by a few changes.Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:37 pmI think the quick and decisive action by the PGMOL along with the apology is a good step forward. If I had a penny for how many times people on here moaned about the refs sticking up for their own I'd have a lot of bloody pennies so we should recognise and welcome the PGMOL response as a real improvement and good step forward.
VAR does not watch the game. Instead AI is used to create an "anonymised" video clip of the incident: anonymised so that VAR doesn't know which team is which, just "team 1" and "team 2" also Player A, Player B etc. AI would replace the actual team colours with shirt/shorts/socks that only distinguishes two teams and respective players - similarly, goalies identified by gloves/shorts/socks. Then VAR asked to judge "did player A for team 1 commit an offense" and so on - similar to the step by step lbw process in cricket. VAR conclusion converted to text and shared with the whole ground and the match referee at the same time. Ref then asked to make their decision - again similar to cricket umpire "stick with your call/change your call" etc.
It would be interesting sports science research to look at VAR decisions and see if an anonymised view of the same incident would come up with the same decisions as VAR/ref made during actual games.
And, for goodness sake, let's get some pundits who actually know the laws of the games - rather than ex-pros who make them up as they go along.
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
All 3 deemed not good enough for a week or so in the Prem but some poor soul in the Championship will end up with them officiating in some capacity you can bet
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
Good work PW got to admit you've totally out-nonsensed me on this topic without even tryingPaul Waine wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 4:14 pmThe first rule of VAR appears sometimes to be "what is the colour of the shirt." I think VAR can eliminate this risk by a few changes.
VAR does not watch the game. Instead AI is used to create an "anonymised" video clip of the incident: anonymised so that VAR doesn't know which team is which, just "team 1" and "team 2" also Player A, Player B etc. AI would replace the actual team colours with shirt/shorts/socks that only distinguishes two teams and respective players - similarly, goalies identified by gloves/shorts/socks. Then VAR asked to judge "did player A for team 1 commit an offense" and so on - similar to the step by step lbw process in cricket. VAR conclusion converted to text and shared with the whole ground and the match referee at the same time. Ref then asked to make their decision - again similar to cricket umpire "stick with your call/change your call" etc.
It would be interesting sports science research to look at VAR decisions and see if an anonymised view of the same incident would come up with the same decisions as VAR/ref made during actual games.
And, for goodness sake, let's get some pundits who actually know the laws of the games - rather than ex-pros who make them up as they go along.
Anyone who thinks VAR is bad now just remember it could be a whole lot worse and you could have someone like Paul in charge
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
I though you were someone who understood IT, DA. Sorry if I've got that wrong.Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 4:23 pmGood work PW got to admit you've totally out-nonsensed me on this topic without even trying
Anyone who thinks VAR is bad now just remember it could be a whole lot worse and you could have someone like Paul in charge
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
Nope, Im definitely not an IT bod but I do know enough to about both IA and football to know what you're suggesting would be a disaster. Very novel and interesting thoughPaul Waine wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 4:44 pmI though you were someone who understood IT, DA. Sorry if I've got that wrong.
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
I thought PW made some excellent suggestions
I dunno how practical they are. But I enjoyed reading them
I dunno how practical they are. But I enjoyed reading them
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
And the time at Weeds when Ben Mee got flattened by Meslier, unbelievably, a free kick was given to Leeds
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
Agree about that one. The decision by ref Rob Jones that day was simply laughable. Had that been now I’m convinced Howard Webb would have dropped him for a few games.HuncoatClaret wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 5:22 pmAnd the time at Weeds when Ben Mee got flattened by Meslier, unbelievably, a free kick was given to Leeds
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
Salisbury stood down yet again in recent months from VAR duties for a round of PL matches ( the 1st after his car crash performance in the Spurs v Brighton game) where he actually ended up reffing us as punishment
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
United of course once again benefit from an unbelievably awful refereeing decision.How surprising.
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
I thought of this on Saturday when Everton had a goal disallowed after Leno went into the back of Tarkowski. Very similar.HuncoatClaret wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 5:22 pmAnd the time at Weeds when Ben Mee got flattened by Meslier, unbelievably, a free kick was given to Leeds
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
Retired refs in club hospitality? Not sure what that has got to do with it
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
As we all Know, VAR just gives the big club two chances to get the decision they want.
The reffing is worse as a result too. In the brentford b Spurs game at the weekend the ref literally ran away from making a decision, knowing full well if he’d ‘missed’ something - VAR would bail him out.
I used to ref myself and seeing a ref visibly ‘abdicate’ and remove himself from the decision making process was both damning and disgusting.
The reffing is worse as a result too. In the brentford b Spurs game at the weekend the ref literally ran away from making a decision, knowing full well if he’d ‘missed’ something - VAR would bail him out.
I used to ref myself and seeing a ref visibly ‘abdicate’ and remove himself from the decision making process was both damning and disgusting.
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
PGMOL appears like a big boys club who have fantastic relationships with the big boys clubs.
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
A fine line between incompetence and corruption with that United/Wolves decision...
Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
What it needs is a manager to come out and say the referees are deliberately favouring certain clubs.
That would put enormous pressure on the likes of Howard Webb etc.
That would put enormous pressure on the likes of Howard Webb etc.
Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
Really?.... Webb is head of refs now, should really be impartial, and may well be, but not a good look being wined and dined by one of the teams playing that nightGuppyspotter wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:39 pmRetired refs in club hospitality? Not sure what that has got to do with it
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
According to Howard Webb when he was on Talk Sport a weeks back they are not allowed to be mic'd up to the stadium/TV as it goes against IFAB (or FIFA) rules.
Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
There’s a big element of confirmation bias in all of this. Those instances when the ref / VAR get decisions right, or when they go against the big teams, just aren’t as memorable or notable.
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
Yep and this probably manifests itself in two main forms
1/ Decision against big team = "good, its about time they dont get the decision", Decision against big team = "Referee's are bias/corrupt as big teams always get decision. Net outcome is one set of decisions is ignored and forgotten whist the other is completely focused on
2/ Decisions that go for a against a small team against a big team are more likely to have a greater importance. Example if Burnley get a decision when its 0-0 and City go on to win 3-0 no once cares about the decision as City won easily anyhow. If decision goes against Burnley when its 0-0 and City go on to win 3-0 then everyone points back to how important that decision was at 0-0. In reality its one decision each but again one is just forgotten whilst one is remembered and focused on.
I am sure there is unconscious bias involved in refereeing decisions but this will linked to many different factors although not fully excluding who the team is but it will have nowhere near the impact and relevance football fans like most posting on this kind of forum think
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
The problem with this decision though is there was absolutely no way you could look at it and see why no penalty was awarded.
With the Tim Krul foul on Vydra apparently they thought he'd touched the ball before making contact with the player but with regards to the incident at Old Trafford you can watch it over and over again without seeing how the referee nor VAR thought it wasn't a penalty.
That's the shocking aspect of it all. I suspect they've kept quiet because those in charge can't justify their decision either.
With the Tim Krul foul on Vydra apparently they thought he'd touched the ball before making contact with the player but with regards to the incident at Old Trafford you can watch it over and over again without seeing how the referee nor VAR thought it wasn't a penalty.
That's the shocking aspect of it all. I suspect they've kept quiet because those in charge can't justify their decision either.
Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
What is IA ?Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 4:49 pmNope, Im definitely not an IT bod but I do know enough to about both IA and football to know what you're suggesting would be a disaster. Very novel and interesting though
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Re: Hooper ,and VAR ass dropped
Dyslexics Rule KO