Past v Present ....

[Clarets4me]

Following on from my Lionesses post, it got me thinking ....

If the England 1966 World Cup team could be transported magically to the modern day and turned out tomorrow, where would they fit as a Club team, against the modern standards of fitness, diet, height etc ? Bottom end of the Premier League ? Mid level Championship ? Or would they struggle in League 1 ?

[mdd2]

League one

[mdd2]

Mind you some of today's players would struggle on the 1960 pitches and the ball in the second halves of rain sodden matches

[Cirrus_Minor]

League one

So Bobby's Charlton and Moore, Alan Ball, Geof Hurst, Martin Peters, ... would only be good enough for League 1? Really?

[kentonclaret]

A nice heavy leather ball with laces and dubbin on the boots and the modern day player would struggle.

The only grease they apply these days is either on their hair or their shirts before taking to the field.

[daveisaclaret]

With the condition of maintaining the fitness etc. they wouldn't be able to compete at any level of professional football.

[Cooclaret]

I have this discussion with my dad and his pals;

I think a current Kyle Walker is a better play than any of the older superstars…

As mentioned above; diet, training, and so make it valid

[CoolClaret]

Tough to say.

The game is jsut so much more professional - match prep, tactics, strength/conditioning & nutrition etc

A team way less talented could beat them with organisation and conditioning.

Give them a preseason/year with modern training techniques and tactics they’d play top level for sure.

Right now? I honestly cannot say

[kentonclaret]

Would Don Bradman and Len Hutton be still scoring centuries in the modern era or would they be found out by “wobble seam” or “back of the hand” deliveries?

[ClaretTony]

So difficult to answer really simply because players back then wouldn't have been anything like as fit as today's players. They generally played a different game too. I always think that if we got our 1959/60 team up to today's fitness levels, the two players who would fit seamlessly into today's game would be John Connelly and Ray Pointer.

[Cooclaret]

Would Don Bradman and Len Hutton be still scoring centuries in the modern era or would they be found out by “wobble seam” or “back of the hand” deliveries?

They’d be found out.

[Tricky Trevor]

No comparison. Look at Athletics world records from the 60s against today. Stars of their era, leave it at that.

[Fretters]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4CXY6TVBMc

[kentonclaret]

No comparison. Look at Athletics world records from the 60s against today. Stars of their era, leave it at that.

So, you don’t think Ali would have beaten Joshua?

[Quickenthetempo]

Not sure our defence would cope with Jimmy Greaves at his peak.

The greats would adapt and prosper.

Just look at Joe Root changing his game for 20/20 from being no.1 Test batter in the world.

[Clarets4me]

Would Don Bradman and Len Hutton be still scoring centuries in the modern era or would they be found out by “wobble seam” or “back of the hand” deliveries ?

I think Cricketers would be some of the Sportsmen most able to make the change, it's still a bloke with a ball and a bloke with a bat .. the fielding has improved beyond recognition though.

[mdd2]

So difficult to answer really simply because players back then wouldn't have been anything like as fit as today's players. They generally played a different game too. I always think that if we got our 1959/60 team up to today's fitness levels, the two players who would fit seamlessly into today's game would be John Connelly and Ray Pointer.

You missed out Angus Elder Adamson Miller Seith McIlroy Robson Pilkington.
And if you disagree CT I have a certain Adam Blacklaw to add to those to see fair play and I am sure if Adam said as it was Bryan Douglas and his 31 teeth would agree

[Goobs]

So, you don’t think Ali would have beaten Joshua?

Different sport and not sure standards have moved on in boxing the same as Athletics, cycling or football to name but 3.

Fitness and conditioning is massive in those if comparing to satrs of the 60's where as technique and strength are possibly as big if not bigger players in boxing.

[bobinho]

So, you don’t think Ali would have beaten Joshua?

Any light heavyweight upwards, from any era would beat Joshua.

Would he beat Fury? Yeah, at his prime, on points.

[Hipper]

Not only general fitness and nutrition but add smoking and drinking, plus the psychological side.

[ClaretTony]

You missed out Angus Elder Adamson Miller Seith McIlroy Robson Pilkington.
And if you disagree CT I have a certain Adam Blacklaw to add to those to see fair play and I am sure if Adam said as it was Bryan Douglas and his 31 teeth would agree

Angus wouldn't drop into today's football - he was a full back that never went over the half way line. Never saw Seith but I'm not sure any of the others would either.

[Spijed]

Would Don Bradman and Len Hutton be still scoring centuries in the modern era or would they be found out by “wobble seam” or “back of the hand” deliveries?

Imagine Boycott trying to play Bazball

[Hipper]

Angus wouldn't drop into today's football - he was a full back that never went over the half way line. Never saw Seith but I'm not sure any of the others would either.

... apart from when he decided to 'deal' with Terry Paine, if I recall correctly.

[mdd2]

Really surprised you left Mac out. Of all the players we had he could turn on a sixpence and hit a long range pass better than any in that side and on surfaces today's players would struggle on

[kentonclaret]

In team sports like cricket and football it is not just fitness levels and dietary needs that have improved but technology and computer analytics plays a huge part in modern day sports. Every opposition batsman and bowler is analysed for strengths and weaknesses even before teams take to the field. Likewise in football.

[Culmclaret]

Just a different game. Today’s players would not have been able to cope in the game of the 60s and 70s (balls, pitches, laws etc) and players of that era would look like carthorses in today’s game.

[DCWat]

A big factor might be who was refereeing, and whether they were doing so with the leniency of yesteryear, or the stricter game management and focus on player safety, of the game we see today.

I can just imagine the guys from ‘66 reaction to the inevitable diving and feigning injury. Conversely, playing under a modern referee, the ‘66 team would probably have half the team sent off!

Given access to today’s training, medical advances and sports science, I see no reason why the best players of years gone by wouldn’t be the best players of today.

They still had a God given talent that the rest of us can only dream of.

[Quicknick]

Just a different game. Today’s players would not have been able to cope in the game of the 60s and 70s (balls, pitches, laws etc) and players of that era would look like carthorses in today’s game.

Steve Kindon would have been a very fast carthorse.

[Culmclaret]

Agree on the refereeing. The old refs would simply have ignored screaming and rolling around and the crowds would have just laughed at antics we take for granted now.

[mdd2]

A big factor might be who was refereeing, and whether they were doing so with the leniency of yesteryear, or the stricter game management and focus on player safety, of the game we see today.

I can just imagine the guys from ‘66 reaction to the inevitable diving and feigning injury. Conversely, playing under a modern referee, the ‘66 team would probably have half the team sent off!

Given access to today’s training, medical advances and sports science, I see no reason why the best players of years gone by wouldn’t be the best players of today.

They still had a God given talent that the rest of us can only dream of.

Suspect that is spot on. Yesteryear players as were playing now would be toast
Take today's players as are on the pitches, balls and officials of yesteryear and maybe they would be toast
I mean in 66 the 11 that started finished if not sent off or injured

[Culmclaret]

Steve Kindon would have been a very fast carthorse.

He would definitely have been a horse that preferred heavy ground!

[Spijed]

A big factor might be who was refereeing, and whether they were doing so with the leniency of yesteryear, or the stricter game management and focus on player safety, of the game we see today.

I can just imagine the guys from ‘66 reaction to the inevitable diving and feigning injury. Conversely, playing under a modern referee, the ‘66 team would probably have half the team sent off!

In the early 70's Franny Lee was famed for his diving so that's not something that has crept into the game in recent times.

[DCWat]

In the early 70's Franny Lee was famed for his diving so that's not something that has crept into the game in recent times.

Before my time… My first real memory of diving was when Klinsmann arrived in the Premier League, though I’m not surprised to hear it was happening before that, perhaps just not on the industrial level we see today.

[Culmclaret]

In the early 70's Franny Lee was famed for his diving so that's not something that has crept into the game in recent times.

Even our own Harry Potts was an exponent of diving but it was very different to what we see today. I remember seeing Lee at Ipswich in what I think was his least game for Derby. Two Ipswich players had handfuls of his shirt but he just ploughed on into the penalty area dragging them in his wake and scored. Can’t see anyone doing that now.

[gtclaret]

Any light heavyweight upwards, from any era would beat Joshua.

Would he beat Fury? Yeah, at his prime, on points.

Both Joshua an Fury are more than 4 stone heavier than Ali in his prime.Ali would now be a cruiser weight.Although Ali was a far better boxer,both Joshua and Fury would have too much power

[superdimitri]

Some of the best players of recent years like Messi and Ronaldo have said without doubt the top players of the past would be top today.
Sure, they may not have been as fit back then or played the same game, but if they were born the same age as players today they would have been.

You either have it or you don't.

[Rowls]

Agree with those who think that even Charlton, Peters, Hurst, Greaves, McIlroy etc wouldn't be anywhere near the top flight if they were magically transported from the 60s to modern football.

But ... and it's a big BUT...

If those guys had 18 months of modern training, modern diet and sport science they'd fly up the leagues until they were all top players in the top flight.

Those guys were winners because they were winners. They found a way to be better back then and they'd do the same today.

[gtclaret]

I'm 66 now and can honestly say thaty football standard is exactly the same as when I was 26,as you rightly said you either have it or you don't.I will let you guess which one applies to me

[Paul Waine]

No comparison. Look at Athletics world records from the 60s against today. Stars of their era, leave it at that.

Yes, athletics illustrates the difference between 1960s and 60 years later. Give the players of the 1960s the same nutrition, fitness levels and training as the players today and most would still be top footballers. Ok, they'd also have to give up cigarettes and cut out the nights out the night before the match to be on a par, but I've no doubt that the players of the 60s would still be top players today.

[AGENT_CLARET]

So Bobby's Charlton and Moore, Alan Ball, Geof Hurst, Martin Peters, ... would only be good enough for League 1? Really?

The question was TEAM not individual player's

[nil_desperandum]

Imagine Boycott trying to play Bazball

I think that Khawaja countered "bazball" quite effectively in the Ashes series playing very much what might be called "Boycottbat"

[gandhisflipflop]

The attackers would adapt better than defenders and have more joy because they would get more protection from referees. The only think that matters is the ability with the ball. If a player was good in the 60s and had the footballing brain he would play today because he would get the same nutrition and fitness coaching as everyone else. You could argue they may be better.

In answer to your question, I reckon mid table PL because fro reading about that side, it was very much a team rather than individuals that won that WC so I think they would do well.

[Carlos the Great]

They would all more than likely get sent off in the first half