Trafford

[claretspice]

As a world class defender and organiser whilst playing I'd have expected VK to be a little more aware of the dangers of such a high line against a side like Villa with such an inexperienced back line.

Yes. But Kompany was always playing in teams that were successful - Anderlecht finished either first and second in his time there, Hamburg 4th in Bundesliga when he was there, City we know all about. It's a different ball game when man for man you are inferior to 70%+ of the teams you'll play, and hes not experienced it as a manager either. That is something he's going to have to adapt to.

[boatshed bill]

I’ll admit, in real time I thought why hasn’t he moved his feet, watching it back I did see that as a factor, yes

I still think the major points about him going to ground too soon looking small and punching rather than catching make him look more like a keeper Danny Wards size than a 6ft 5” young lad who should have Zebeddee legs still apply

I'm going to cut him a fair bit of slack.
A young goalkeeper making what is basically a 2 division jump in standard may very well take a while to adjust.
Add to that a defence with virtually no PL experience.

[Spijed]

I'm going to cut him a fair bit of slack.
A young goalkeeper making what is basically a 2 division jump in standard may very well take a while to adjust.
Add to that a defence with virtually no PL experience.

We really could do with some experience!

[Swizzlestick]

I'm going to cut him a fair bit of slack.
A young goalkeeper making what is basically a 2 division jump in standard may very well take a while to adjust.
Add to that a defence with virtually no PL experience.

Isn’t the entire point that starting a young keeper with only League One experience ahead of a keeper who at least has international / top league experience and was our number one last season a little premature, to say the least? Giving him minutes in the cup and challenging Muric would, to me, make more sense.

[boatshed bill]

Isn’t the entire point that starting a young keeper with only League One experience ahead of a keeper who at least has international / top league experience and was our number one last season a little premature, to say the least? Giving him minutes in the cup and challenging Muric would, to me, make more sense.

Very likely, yes.
But I draw the line at some of the criticism I've read on here.
BTW, I'm a massive Muric fan, but totally support young Trafford.

[Swizzlestick]

Very likely, yes.
But I draw the line at some of the criticism I've read on here.
BTW, I'm a massive Muric fan, but totally support young Trafford.

We all support him, I’m sure - I think he has the potential to be top class. I’m just hoping we haven’t thrown in him too quickly but I trust VK to assess things as the season goes on.

[Jakubclaret]

He's a young lad learning & with that comes mistakes he will get better, any goalkeeping coach worth their salt will be analysing his mistakes & working on his weaknesses with him.

[helmclaret]

We don’t have the luxury of time.

I think Muric needs to come back in. Muric’s long range passing is far better than Trafford and is useful when hitting teams on the break. Trafford can hardly hit the half way line off the ground.

[KRBFC]

A little bit of revisionism here. Trafford got caught in two minds, which is a big no no as a keeper. Just inexperience and confidence.

He will get there for sure, the question is whether we will have the luxury of giving him that time.

But is he really supposed to anticipate such an awful touch from Watkins which actually turned out to be the perfect touch.

[burnleymik]

But is he really supposed to anticipate such an awful touch from Watkins which actually turned out to be the perfect touch.

He was caught in no man's land. Our line was very high and his positioning caused him problems. He then tried to get back and hesitated before coming to Watkins.

As others have said there were lots of other factors at play in that goal, but we can't deny he made errors.

I am not writing him off, plenty of potential, but I think we should have given him a chance to earn the shirt before being chucked in at the deep end and although it's early in the season we know how ruthless the Premier League is.

[KRBFC]

He was caught in no man's land. Our line was very high and his positioning caused him problems. He then tried to get back and hesitated before coming to Watkins.

As others have said there were lots of other factors at play in that goal, but we can't deny he made errors.

I am not writing him off, plenty of potential, but I think we should have given him a chance to earn the shirt before being chucked in at the deep end and although it's early in the season we know how ruthless the Premier League is.

I do miss the craziness of Muric, I think we’ve missed his positioning outside of the box which hasn’t been mentioned, Muric is absolutely excellent at sweeping up and likely would’ve been close to outside of his box when McGinn chips the ball through to Watkins.

In that situation Muric is 100% committed to sprinting towards the ball and whatever happens, happens.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I do find it really strange that Trafford and Berge have been targeted for criticism yet two of last years favourites that have been worse in my opinion are getting away Scott free.

For what it’s worth I think two of our worst players so far have been Al Dakhil and Cullen. Both have struggled to adapt to the physicality and pace of this league.

[burnleymik]

I do find it really strange that Trafford and Berge have been targeted for criticism yet two of last years favourites that have been worse in my opinion are getting away Scott free.

For what it’s worth I think two of our worst players so far have been Al Dakhil and Cullen. Both have struggled to adapt to the physicality and pace of this league.

Maybe because they weren't such high-value signings, which obviously comes with expectations.

I also think it is because many people felt Muric earned the right to start the campaign in the Prem. due to his good form and huge improvement last season.

I think most people here would have started with Al Dakhil and Cullen for that Villa game, but the opinions seemed more divided on Berge and Trafford, hence why there is more discussion around it IMO.

[Carlos the Great]

Given the choice would you have signed Trafford and Berge or Vykores and Archer who both went to Sheffield Utd

[Newcastleclaret93]

Maybe because they weren't such high-value signings, which obviously comes with expectations.

I also think it is because many people felt Muric earned the right to start the campaign in the Prem. due to his good form and huge improvement last season.

I think most people here would have started with Al Dakhil and Cullen for that Villa game, but the opinions seemed more divided on Berge and Trafford, hence why there is more discussion around it IMO.

Fair point, in terms of individual performances I don’t believe any of the new signings performed worse than some of the existing.

[CoolClaret]

I do find it really strange that Trafford and Berge have been targeted for criticism yet two of last years favourites that have been worse in my opinion are getting away Scott free.

For what it’s worth I think two of our worst players so far have been Al Dakhil and Cullen. Both have struggled to adapt to the physicality and pace of this league.

Cullen has has absolutely 0 help in midfield and Al Dakhil has been on a hiding to nothing being moved around like that.

[RicardoMontalban]

Given the choice would you have signed Trafford and Berge or Vykores and Archer who both went to Sheffield Utd

Vykores? Sheff Utd? Err….

Given one of those players isn’t even real I think we got the better deal.

[Healeywoodclaret]

Defintely potential there, but think we should have started the season with Muric and let Trafford take the shirt on merit, especially as Muric was so crucial to our style of play last season. Feels like he has been thrown in at the deep end and possbly to justify his price tag.

I think in time he will be better than Muric by a country mile when he gets a decent defence in front of him. Yes he’s out of his depths at the moment and the price tag was hefty which raises expectations and puts the lad under pressure. He looks brave which is a great attribute for a keeper which is more than can be said for Muric. Give him a chance.

[CoolClaret]

I think in time he will be better than Muric by a country mile when he gets a decent defence in front of him. Yes he’s out of his depths at the moment and the price tag was hefty which raises expectations and puts the lad under pressure. He looks brave which is a great attribute for a keeper which is more than can be said for Muric. Give him a chance.

How can you say Muric isn’t brave?

Wtf?

[Swizzlestick]

Given the choice would you have signed Trafford and Berge or Vykores and Archer who both went to Sheffield Utd

If you mean Gyokeres, he went to Sporting Lisbon for something like £20m despite only having a year left. Archer had two good Championship loan spells but again was about £18m and is fairly unproven at this level. I’ve always been ‘jury’s out’ on Berge but it’s clear he wasn’t in a comfortable position against Villa particularly first half.

[Healeywoodclaret]

How can you say Muric isn’t brave?

Wtf?

At the start of last season, against far less calibre opposition, he looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights. Never rated Muric. Too slow by far. Nowhere near a Premier League keeper.

Trafford is quicker and brave because he’s clearly getting dogs abuse by so called “fans” like you!

Give him a chance he will be a Class Keeper.

[CoolClaret]

At the start of last season, against far less calibre opposition, he looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights. Never rated Muric. Too slow by far. Nowhere near a Premier League keeper.

Trafford is quicker and brave because he’s clearly getting dogs abuse by so called “fans” like you!

Give him a chance he will be a Class Keeper.

Complete horseshit.

Muric has a stone cold demeanour and is extremely calm with the ball at his feet and has an absolute ping on him - made some massive saves last season to keep us in it early doors and later to seal the league - Penalty save against boro anyone?

The only reason Traff is getting this hype is because he’s English, City academy and did well with the U21s. Completely blown up by the media.

He might become a top keeper eventually but we also have to pick up some points you know - Southampton tried this with a league one keeper last year and it failed miserably.

[CoolClaret]

Find me a keeper not named Allison or Ederson that can do this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5omj4Ply38&t=160s

It’s at the correct time stamp but if it’s not then @ 02:40

West Brom away.

[claretonthecoast1882]

It is good to see we know who the target is going to be this season.

I can imagine the kind of comments I would be reading on here if Trafford made an error then claimed he has to go off as he is injured, then do exactly the same again a game or 2 later.

[jlup1980]

I've no doubt he'll be a good GK in the future but right now he's not PL standard and you cannot blood a young GK in the PL, simple as that. He has time on his side and should have started as back-up to Muric, with an eye on him taking the number 1 jersey in 12 months time.

[RVclaret]

Find me a keeper not named Allison or Ederson that can do this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5omj4Ply38&t=160s

It’s at the correct time stamp but if it’s not then @ 02:40

West Brom away.

Seen as though we are time stamping moments I was curious to think what descriptive language you would use for this:

https://youtu.be/JFNaR_bpwTU?si=IZ27Bir_ngNfxd56

Given you thought Trafford was ‘horrific’ for the goal on Saturday, it would be interesting to hear.

[CoolClaret]

Seen as though we are time stamping moments I was curious to think what descriptive language you would use for this:

https://youtu.be/JFNaR_bpwTU?si=IZ27Bir_ngNfxd56

Given you thought Trafford was ‘horrific’ for the goal on Saturday, it would be interesting to hear.

Aye that was a glaring cock up he made -

Still, showed him at his best, not many in world footy can do that imo- could be perfect for finding Koleosho in behind.

Worth mentioning that I’m very supportive of Trafford on the games as I am with all the team.

Just doesn’t feel right to me to make so many changes to last years team.

[Hipper]

Another long winded go at defending Trafford on the first goal.

The goal starts as we lose the ball, it’s passed to Watkins who comes back to receive it followed by Al Dakhil. Watkins then lays the ball off to McGinn and immediately turns and starts his run. A-D almost stands still facing the ball. McGinn is surrounded by four Burnley players but they are not close enough to interfere.

At the moment McGinn passes the ball forward the positions are:

+Trafford is static 25m from goal (assuming each grass stripe is 5m).
+Watkins is already starting his run; Al Dakhil is facing ball practically standing still.
+Diaby starting to run; O’Shea already started run and managing situation.
+Cash starting to run; Delcroix already started run and managing situation.

As the ball is passed, Trafford dithers slightly then decides that he cannot reach the ball before Watkins so retreats. Watkins is already accelerating fast and, whilst I can’t be sure, it seems likely that Trafford could not accelerate quickly enough to go for the ball, so I would say this is a correct judgement.

There is a question of whether Trafford should have been further from goal with our high line. Well I guess that’s something he would be instructed on. Of course the further out he is the more likely a short pass to Watkins could have seen him lob Trafford. 25m from goal, half way between the goal and half-way line seems reasonable to me. What does Ederson do at Man City?

O’Shea and Delcroix have assessed the situation well and are where they should be. A-D has messed up and is practically out of the play now.

At the moment the ball first bounces at 29m from goal:

+Trafford back pedalling. He’s moved 8m to be 17m from goal.
+Watkins 32m from goal, 3m from ball and closing in for his first touch, having travelled 18m. A-D well behind him.
+O’Shea well positioned with Diaby.
+Delcroix well positioned with Cash.

Trafford has made the decision to back pedal and is getting closer to protecting his goal, which is the correct thing to do. This means that when Watkins fumbles his control of the ball, Trafford is about 15m away. He reacts to the new trajectory of the ball but is still not swift enough to get his hands on it. It’s difficult (for me anyway) to see how he could do better from this position.

For some reason Delcroix seems to slow down a touch whilst Cash continues at full pelt. It proves to be a mistake.

As Watkins shoots/crosses.

+Trafford spreads himself to cover the near post and tries to block a cross shot/cross.
+Watkins tries to score but misses. A_D little impact on play.
+O’Shea well placed, on the penalty spot, to deal with a back pass to Diaby.
+Delcroix is now very slightly behind Cash. It means he isn’t quite positioned to deal with the misplaced shot/cross and Cash does the business.

Firstly, this was excellent play be Villa and McGinn, Watkins (although he fumbled control and miss hit his shot) and especially Cash.

We failed because:

1. We played a high line.
2. We lost the ball.
3. Al Dakhil failed to react to the situation quickly enough.
4. Delcroix slightly eased up for some reason meaning he was unable to interfere with the ball just before Cash netted (of course he could have fouled Cash early on in the move and copped a yellow!).

Again though, I fail to see what Trafford did wrong. He was probably positioned where he was told to be. He judged, correctly I think, that he couldn’t reach the ball before Watkins at the first bounce, and then he spread himself enough to stop Watkins scoring.

[Anthonini]

The thing is nobody, neither Watkins, expected his bad finish to become a perfect assist to a player that wasn't even near the ball. Surely we can do things better and improve.

[RVclaret]

Aye that was a glaring cock up he made -

Still, showed him at his best, not many in world footy can do that imo- could be perfect for finding Koleosho in behind.

Worth mentioning that I’m very supportive of Trafford on the games as I am with all the team.

Just doesn’t feel right to me to make so many changes to last years team.

I’m as big a fan of Muric’s ball playing ability as anyone, check all threads from last season. Including defending him when most were slating him! Loved watching him. But by the same token it’s the same here with Trafford, I don’t think he’s done much wrong to be labelled ‘never a PL keeper…out of his depth…kid in sweet shop…league one keeper’.

Like last season with Muric, I just personally do not understand that mentality of a supporter being like that, especially for a new signing who Kompany (who has got a fair bit of credit in the bank) has backed. In my more balanced view, I look at the bigger picture and wonder why Kompany decided he needed to spend big on a keeper (he was after Verbruggen too remember for a similar fee). Particularly because I felt Muric was a key player last season. It suggests to me there is something else at play, either mentality, attitude, or they just don’t feel his keeping is up to it…

[Foshiznik]

Anyone would think Muric was Manuel Neuer the way they go on here.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Theother14
Have posted some interesting stats

Trafford ranks 13th in the league for difference between expected goals and goals.

Pretty impressive given there’s only four other keepers that have had to deal with a higher XG than him (in one more game aswell might I add).

Anyone suggesting he’s no where near the standard required might need a rethink

[AlargeClaret]

Theother14
Have posted some interesting stats

Trafford ranks 13th in the league for difference between expected goals and goals.

Pretty impressive given there’s only four other keepers that have had to deal with a higher XG than him (in one more game aswell might I add).

Anyone suggesting he’s no where near the standard required might need a rethink

In the case of 2 prem games against superior opposition it’s an almost meaningless stat. Now , if after 8/10 games then it starts to get traction and if after a season it’s a very very important stat. Heaton always had great stats in this metric .

[jrgbfc]

Anyone would think Muric was Manuel Neuer the way they go on here.

I'm not as big a Muric fan as some on here, just feel that if you go in and perform you should keep the shirt. Was needless to throw Trafford in at the deep end like we have.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

This playing Trafford has the feel of when Heaton was dropped for Joe hart and SD stubbornly stuck with it until it was nearly too late. Hopefully we don’t get to that point and he either comes good or gets dropped for Muric.

Personally I would have liked to have seen the guy that got us promoted keep his place and Trafford to be waiting in the wings if he slipped up, not the other way around.

[Elizabeth]

Trafford is like one or two others who have been in the starting line up for these early league games.
I’m sure I’m not the only one who recognises that Kompany is throwing them in at the deep end against the top sides to accelerate their learning.
It really makes sense when you think a little deeper

[ClaretsPadiham]

Didn’t need to come rushing out for the first goal. Iv seen nothing at all to say he’s anywhere near good enough.

[Vegas Claret]

This playing Trafford has the feel of when Heaton was dropped for Joe hart and SD stubbornly stuck with it until it was nearly too late.

I agree with this to an extent in terms of feel but it's still early days. So far he's done nothing at all to justify his place over Muric BUT we are giving him no protection at all.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Didn’t need to come rushing out for the first goal. Iv seen nothing at all to say he’s anywhere near good enough.

Seriously did you watch the game today?

It would have been a cricket score if it wasn’t for some of his saves.

As the commentators said on numerous occasions. VK and the outfield have hung the keeper out to dry.

You could have put Peak Buffon in goal today and it would have still been 5 or 6

[Vegas Claret]

Seriously did you watch the game today?

It would have been a cricket score if it wasn’t for some of his saves.

As the commentators said on numerous occasions. VK and the outfield have hung the keeper out to dry.

You could have put Peak Buffon in goal today and it would have still been 5 or 6

not just about his saves though, you can't be blind to his distribution versus Muric

[NewClaret]

Given the choice would you have signed Trafford and Berge or Vykores and Archer who both went to Sheffield Utd

I agree Trafford was an absolute luxury and as it turns out, we’d have been better investing in a ball winning CM.

Berge is being played out of position in my opinion.

[ClaretAL]

Guys the lad is young and looks like he is carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders and we are all adding to it. I get the Joe Hart comparisons but Trafford has had no protection at all players can walk right through our midfield and defence to the point where one of the 3 of them can score. The midfield and defence needs sorting fast

[Newcastleclaret93]

not just about his saves though, you can't be blind to his distribution versus Muric

I honestly don’t get that point at all.

It’s clear as day VK has instructed him to go long today to beat the press

It also doesn’t help when the outfield players are just not with it at all. How many times did Al Dakhil give a simple pass away from Trafford today

[Dark Cloud]

I honestly don't think he did much wrong today. Last week against Villa I had a few questions tbf, but today he was pretty much let down by those in front of him. Having said that, I'd like to see Muric getting a gig and I did think maybe Muric would have distributed the ball better, especially when we were being squeezed, but I'm not sure.

[Vegas Claret]

I honestly don’t get that point at all.

clearly

Joking aside, yes the outfield aren't helping but I'm not having he was instructed to hoof it into no mans land 7 times out of 10, it's not how we play

[CoolClaret]

It wasn’t the signing we needed but we’re not helping him with our setup.

120 mill window and no fullbacks

[AGENT_CLARET]

I honestly don't think he did much wrong today. Last week against Villa I had a few questions tbf, but today he was pretty much let down by those in front of him. Having said that, I'd like to see Muric getting a gig and I did think maybe Muric would have distributed the ball better, especially when we were being squeezed, but I'm not sure.

Over 70% of his kicking (the way we are set up to play) either went out or to a Spurs player

[Elizabeth]

Focus is back on Trafford I see.

People are looking in the wrong direction after today's defeat

[burnleymik]

Time to give Muric a try and give this lad a rest. Think it was a mistake to start the season with Trafford after the way Muric developed and finished last season.

Let him earn the shirt, instead of just being handed it and then dropped in at the deep end.

The morale of two keepers is now destroyed.

Unless there is something going on behind the scenes, then on performance alone, Muric should be playing.

[Vegas Claret]

Focus is back on Trafford I see.

People are looking in the wrong direction after today's defeat

It's a thread about Trafford. You'll have to explain who you thought we would be discussing ?