Trafford

[Rick_Muller]

In my opinion we lose by 6-7 if Muric is in goal today. He doesn’t make some of the top saves that Trafford does today.

In my opinion at least one, maybe two of the goals we conceded today was as a result on low confidence at the back, which happened far fewer times with Muric last season as he grew in confidence and improved massively over the “Bambi on ice” he was and appeared to be at the start of last season.

My personal gripe is that it was his position to lose, but didn’t have a chance to lose it. It was just gifted to Trafford for what? Because of a transfer fee! Seriously poor reason to drop Muric.

Now Trafford will be the better of the two with time, but right now (and from the start of the season IMO) Muric is the better option.

Unless of course we’ve p!ssed on his chips and he’s also down in confidence as a result - in which case we have serious issues.

The argument that the players in front were also poor is a bit like a catch 22 too, their confidence is fuelled by having faith in the keeper too.

[Vegas Claret]

Ok Vegas , I thought it was not like you

I've no issue someone pointing out when I'm wrong or being a clown, daily occurrence in my house

[123EasyasBFC]

The one in the first half diving to his left, not sure who shot.

But Muric wouldn’t have got to that.

When highlights come out il time stamp

The one in the first half to his left was from Maddison and very keeper in the championship would have made that save, come on you need to do better then that, which other saves?

[Newcastleclaret93]

In my opinion at least one, maybe two of the goals we conceded today was as a result on low confidence at the back, which happened far fewer times with Muric last season as he grew in confidence and improved massively over the “Bambi on ice” he was and appeared to be at the start of last season.

My personal gripe is that it was his position to lose, but didn’t have a chance to lose it. It was just gifted to Trafford for what? Because of a transfer fee! Seriously poor reason to drop Muric.

Now Trafford will be the better of the two with time, but right now (and from the start of the season IMO) Muric is the better option.

Unless of course we’ve p!ssed on his chips and he’s also down in confidence as a result - in which case we have serious issues.

The argument that the players in front were also poor is a bit like a catch 22 too, their confidence is fuelled by having faith in the keeper too.

I think people are getting hung up on the “his shirt to lose” stuff.

I think if Muric performed to the standard VK wanted last season then we wouldn’t have been after a number 1. I personally believe (I know everyone will disagree) that VK decided well into last season that Muric had already lost the shirt and whoever was going to come in (whether Verbruggen or Trafford) was his number 1.

[boatshed bill]

Made a mistake for their 1st.

Made a couple of outstanding point blank stops later and his feet were very good.

Making saves late on when your team are several goals down is almost pointless.
The first goal conceded shapes the game.

[Rick_Muller]

I think people are getting hung up on the “his shirt to lose” stuff.

I think if Muric performed to the standard VK wanted last season then we wouldn’t have been after a number 1. I personally believe (I know everyone will disagree) that VK decided well into last season that Muric had already lost the shirt and whoever was going to come in (whether Verbruggen or Trafford) was his number 1.

That’s a fair comment. I’m not hung up on it though. Performances for Muric did improve massively over the season though, and I feel he deserved a shot.

[jurek]

VK I think felt obliged to start Trafford given the large fee
and possibly for other reasons unbeknown to me.
But it probably wasn't one of his best decisions even though
Trafford hasn't played that badly.

Had Muric started these first 3 games we probably would have lost
them anyway.
But Muric has presence and is clearly better at distributing the ball.
Trafford needs to work on that aspect of his game.

Will VK persevere with Trafford?
Be interesting to see if he does.

[Targetman]

Foe me then. It’s really not difficult.

Apologies for living so far away Targetman il move closer to the turf so I can attend every game

You continue with your rubbish lad, it makes me chuckle!"

[NewClaret]

VK I think felt obliged to start Trafford given the large fee
and possibly for other reasons unbeknown to me.
But it probably wasn't one of his best decisions even though
Trafford hasn't played that badly.

Had Muric started these first 3 games we probably would have lost
them anyway.
But Muric has presence and is clearly better at distributing the ball.
Trafford needs to work on that aspect of his game.

Will VK persevere with Trafford?
Be interesting to see if he does.

Spot on.

I’m hopeful VK will be ruthless and see what we can all see - we need Muric’ distribution. He’s absolutely clearly a better all round player (at the moment).

Trafford has shipped 11, not all his own fault, but needs taking out of the spotlight and to develop at his own pace.

[JimmyRobbo]

Making saves late on when your team are several goals down is almost pointless.
The first goal conceded shapes the game.

You're talking out your backside. Making saves is never pointless. What are you on about. Have you just got back in from watching Liam Smith rolling around on his ankles, at the pub?

He made a mistake in that game. All keepers do. He's learning. He has massive potential. Don't get on at players with some naff agenda. Get behind young lads and create an atmosphere of growth.

Have you never played sport?

[roperclaret]

I’ve a suggestion for you. Let him play without constantly getting on his back. He’s good enough to be Kompany’s choice.
Your opinion doesn’t matter , like others you like to dress your criticism up

That’s a crock. Not once have I criticised him. I just think Muric is better. Like I thought Heaton was better than Hart and look what happened to results when Dyche eventually made the change

[roperclaret]

I think people are getting hung up on the “his shirt to lose” stuff.

I think if Muric performed to the standard VK wanted last season then we wouldn’t have been after a number 1. I personally believe (I know everyone will disagree) that VK decided well into last season that Muric had already lost the shirt and whoever was going to come in (whether Verbruggen or Trafford) was his number 1.

Maybe, but I watched Verbruggen tonight and he looks way way better than Trafford

[Sheedyclaret]

Maybe, but I watched Verbruggen tonight and he looks way way better than Trafford

Agreed Trafford looks raw no way ready for this level but I guess his fee means he plays

[dsr]

In my opinion at least one, maybe two of the goals we conceded today was as a result on low confidence at the back, which happened far fewer times with Muric last season as he grew in confidence and improved massively over the “Bambi on ice” he was and appeared to be at the start of last season.

I agree that the defence last season looked more confident against the likes of Sheffield United and Luton than it has this year against Man City, Villa and Spurs. But I wonder if there is another factor in that apart from the change of goalkeeper?

[Benson]

I think people are getting hung up on the “his shirt to lose” stuff.

I think if Muric performed to the standard VK wanted last season then we wouldn’t have been after a number 1. I personally believe (I know everyone will disagree) that VK decided well into last season that Muric had already lost the shirt and whoever was going to come in (whether Verbruggen or Trafford) was his number 1.

More fool Kompany then.

[Wembley09]

Agreed Trafford looks raw no way ready for this level but I guess his fee means he plays

Maybe it's not even the fee, don't players have a certain playing role stipulation in their contracts.
Maybe he signed because he had a clause that he would be our first choice League keeper, hence why Muric started in the cup.

[Jakubclaret]

I don't think much of a difference would be accountable whoever played in goal given the margin of defeats so far, fair enough if you are losing by the odd goal & clear mistakes are made contributing to that but that's not the case. The distribution argument might well have worked in the championship but that's gone for the time being & to change the fortunes simply replacing 1 goalkeeper for another who hasn't done much wrong won't work.

[aggi]

It looks like Trafford is going to be number one but if that's the case then we need to adapt to it.

We can't play like we did last season with the goalkeeper playing as another outfield player and knocking the ball around, he's just not capable of that at the moment. We saw under Dyche how you can exploit a weakness there and the goals it can cost.

[Neil]

I don't think much of a difference would be accountable whoever played in goal given the margin of defeats so far, fair enough if you are losing by the odd goal & clear mistakes are made contributing to that but that's not the case. The distribution argument might well have worked in the championship but that's gone for the time being & to change the fortunes simply replacing 1 goalkeeper for another who hasn't done much wrong won't work.

Exactly. We're facing a high press against top quality players, not West Brom, Blackpool or Hull. His distribution is ok, he doesn't panic and he's pretty accurate. Muric is probably better at it but it's marginal. Seen some rubbish posted about the defence not having faith in him!! It's more a case of the defence and midfield being under far more pressure when they receive the ball than they did last season. Honestly, the keeper is the least of our worries at the moment.

[roperclaret]

I don't think much of a difference would be accountable whoever played in goal given the margin of defeats so far, fair enough if you are losing by the odd goal & clear mistakes are made contributing to that but that's not the case. The distribution argument might well have worked in the championship but that's gone for the time being & to change the fortunes simply replacing 1 goalkeeper for another who hasn't done much wrong won't work.

Well I think your wrong. Remember back in 2018 when Hart was in goal? We were losing pretty much every week and yet Hart was getting decent scores on here and similar comments ‘not his fault’ ‘not doing much wrong’. After getting stuffed 5-1 at home by Everton, Dyche finally brought Heaton back in. Guess what? We won 5 and drew 3 of the next 8 games and stayed up comfortably. All because we replaced 1 keeper with another.

[Hibsclaret]

If anyone thinks the defeat yesterday was because of the goalkeeper they need to watch the game again. Nobody saves the goals yesterday.

You can argue the toss about who is better than who and whether it was Muric’s shirt to lose but Kompany has made similar decisions with outfield players (such as starting Koleosho instead of Zaroury against City). The only reason Kompany will be playing Trafford is because he thinks he is at least as good as Muric already and can get even better than Muric with development.

[Hipper]

I saw the match on Sky's 'Game of the Day'.

Trafford did little wrong. He made some solid saves, handled the ball safely and couldn't be faulted for the goals. The idea that he could save Maddison's goal is strange - the player was given the freedom of Turf Moor to line up that shot and he did it to perfection.

His distribution was probably as good as it could be. The reason he often missed our own players was because he was often under pressure from awkward back passes. Outfield players did no better I would say.

And of course our defending was woeful. From the TV games I've seen Spurs looked OK but not exceptional and Son, amongst others, looked ineffective.
Yesterday Spurs were rampant and Son a world beater. Although Spurs had made changes I suggest the fact that they now looked good was down to our failures.

[Jakubclaret]

Well I think your wrong. Remember back in 2018 when Hart was in goal? We were losing pretty much every week and yet Hart was getting decent scores on here and similar comments ‘not his fault’ ‘not doing much wrong’. After getting stuffed 5-1 at home by Everton, Dyche finally brought Heaton back in. Guess what? We won 5 and drew 3 of the next 8 games and stayed up comfortably. All because we replaced 1 keeper with another.

You'll have to remind Vincent of that because right now he's the one who's in charge & seeing him on a regular basis in training & still selecting him so he's obviously seeing something that some of us are missing.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I saw the match on Sky's 'Game of the Day'.

Trafford did little wrong. He made some solid saves, handled the ball safely and couldn't be faulted for the goals. The idea that he could save Maddison's goal is strange - the player was given the freedom of Turf Moor to line up that shot and he did it to perfection.

His distribution was probably as good as it could be. The reason he often missed our own players was because he was often under pressure from awkward back passes. Outfield players did no better I would say.

And of course our defending was woeful. From the TV games I've seen Spurs looked OK but not exceptional and Son, amongst others, looked ineffective.
Yesterday Spurs were rampant and Son a world beater. Although Spurs had made changes I suggest the fact that they now looked good was down to our failures.

I agree 100%. We have considerably bigger issues than which keeper starts. I don’t even understand why this is a topic of discussion. I’m sure our management team are not even looking at the keeper position.

[mikeS]

Trafford wasn't to blame for the goals
Son and Maddison were given way too much room.
When pressed Tottenhams defence looked shaky.

[SalisburyClaret]

Leave a world class striker unmarked in the penalty area three times - and its the keeper’s fault?

Muric is great at short distribution - yesterday that would just have bought us more trouble

Trafford has been good so far, the problems are elsewhere

[ecc]

I've no issue someone pointing out when I'm wrong or being a clown, daily occurrence in my house

You're lucky, Vegas. It's every two minutes in my house.

[dougcollins]

The fee thing- 'So we've paid all this money, why aren't you playing him?'

Is that really going to happen?

[JimmyRobbo]

It's a tough one. I think Muric is the better keeper, full stop. I did from what I witnessed in pre-sseason, which was only a few games on the net.

Clearly, VK thinks Trafford has a higher ceiling and must feel he'll reach it sooner rather than later. You have to trust that perspective even though it may not seem right at this stage of the season.

[getbennyon]

It looks like Trafford is going to be number one but if that's the case then we need to adapt to it.

We can't play like we did last season with the goalkeeper playing as another outfield player and knocking the ball around, he's just not capable of that at the moment. We saw under Dyche how you can exploit a weakness there and the goals it can cost.

This has been the fundamental problem in 3 games so far, ******* about at the back against teams that are better than us. We had this nonsense go for us last season against Norwich and Blackburn to name two. It's fine playing out at the back against Rotherham and Bristol City but against the big guns of English football you simply have to change or you'll be punished.

[123EasyasBFC]

It's a tough one. I think Muric is the better keeper, full stop. I did from what I witnessed in pre-sseason, which was only a few games on the net.

Clearly, VK thinks Trafford has a higher ceiling and must feel he'll reach it sooner rather than later. You have to trust that perspective even though it may not seem right at this stage of the season.

I think the fact Trafford probably does have a higher ceiling than muric, where a conversation should of taken place when Trafford said to singed to say look we want you as our number one but muric has earned the right to have the shirt at the start of the season

[JimmyRobbo]

This has been the fundamental problem in 3 games so far, ******* about at the back against teams that are better than us. We had this nonsense go for us last season against Norwich and Blackburn to name two. It's fine playing out at the back against Rotherham and Bristol City but against the big guns of English football you simply have to change or you'll be punished.

Absolutely correct, if we're maximising our results.

If we're looking at long-term growth of young players with potential, it might be the case that you learn systems and how not to do things against those who will punish you. With the right attitude to it, you learn the most from it.

We weren't very good at this stage last year. It might take even longer this time round. Sometimes, it's bettter to lose and learn. Can they learn, though? In the required time?

I think we have to commit to the learning process and remain committed. Enjoying that ride may not be easy following such a successful promotion year.

[Elizabeth]

Absolutely correct, if we're maximising our results.

Can they learn, though? In the required time?

Two good points.

We all have experienced good, bad and indifferent teachers. People will either have been inspired or de- motivated. They will have already made up their own mind about Kompany and the team he has around him.

There are 38 games this season and we have many players with International experience and young enough to be willing to learn . The learning process has already started against 3 excellent sides with exceptional players. I'm confident that if all things stay equal by the time the half way stage is reached we will be ready to press on during the second half of the season and put that learning into practice

[Vincent'sCap]

Great Keeper he will go on and play for England,
Persevere

[Newcastleclaret93]

Interesting discussion on sky right now.

The general consensus is once a keeper has been made number 1, they don’t get dropped unless they want to sell him in the next window.

So looks like Trafford will start every game

[Elizabeth]

Interesting discussion on sky right now.

looks like Trafford will start every game

I can just see the Headlines in large print on the main street

' Trafford to start every game'

I do think we go too far as fans sometimes

[123EasyasBFC]

Interesting discussion on sky right now.

The general consensus is once a keeper has been made number 1, they don’t get dropped unless they want to sell him in the next window.

So looks like Trafford will start every game

So because of a discussion on sky that now means Trafford will start every game

[burnleymik]

Interesting discussion on sky right now.

The general consensus is once a keeper has been made number 1, they don’t get dropped unless they want to sell him in the next window.

So looks like Trafford will start every game

Did that happen with Muric? He was brought in as our Number 1 keeper. He was dropped after poor performances early on and wasn't sold next window....

I am sure Kompany will make any changes he deems neccessary, no matter what discussion happens on Sky Sports.

[Vegas Claret]

You're lucky, Vegas. It's every two minutes in my house.

brilliant !

[Carlos the Great]

Muric is only 24

[dvalley69]

This has been the fundamental problem in 3 games so far, ******* about at the back against teams that are better than us. We had this nonsense go for us last season against Norwich and Blackburn to name two. It's fine playing out at the back against Rotherham and Bristol City but against the big guns of English football you simply have to change or you'll be punished.

My thoughts exactly and pretty simple really. At the moment, we are not good enough to play this kind of football. We were caught out by ******* Blackpool for god's sake last season, and many more average Championship sides!! It's not even naive, it's stupid with the opposotion we're facing! Add in the fact we've half a new team who don't know each other, and they are not exaclty world beaters either, it's no wonder we're being battered!!

Edit: We need to be smarter!

[Commy]

Muric does two jobs as he also helps out the defence by playing as sweeper. How many of those balls over the top did he cut out last season. I think he headed one against Preston on the half way line. We would probably see some half way line goals but he might stop more with coming out.

[Newcastleclaret93]

So because of a discussion on sky that now means Trafford will start every game

No but hearing ex premier league keepers talk about the number 1 position surely gives us an insight?

They all agreed that a number 1 is the only position on the pitch that doesn’t change personnel in the league. If someone is selected as number 1 they stay number 1.

[karatekid]

The fee thing- 'So we've paid all this money, why aren't you playing him?'

Is that really going to happen?

If Muric had started the season and was playing really well everyone would be asking why we paid so much for a second keeper and yet there were other positions that needed strengthening. If Trafford came in for one million or on loan Muric would be starting.

[Darthlaw]

If Muric had started the season and was playing really well everyone would be asking why we paid so much for a second keeper and yet there were other positions that needed strengthening. If Trafford came in for one million or on loan Muric would be starting.

If Muric concedes 11 goals against Man City, Aston Villa and Tottenham I wonder how many are clamoring for Trafford to start?

Hopefully the guy who kept out the mighty Cardiff, sunderland and Wigan gets a shot soon though, eh? Especially coz he could pick a pass against them, so I’m sure he can replicate that against Man U and Chelsea

[Swizzlestick]

No but hearing ex premier league keepers talk about the number 1 position surely gives us an insight?

They all agreed that a number 1 is the only position on the pitch that doesn’t change personnel in the league. If someone is selected as number 1 they stay number 1.

Well it isn’t always the case though is it? Brighton changed to Steele, and subsequently to Verbruggen because it suited their style better. West Ham switched to Areola from the Polish lad whose name escapes me

[Murger]

Fabianski.

[dsr]

What I don't get is why people think Trafford looked nervous with the ball. I thought he looked very confident - probably too confident - in his ability to draw the forward and then play a pass to a man on the edge of the box who is marked. It didn't cost us a goal, but it gave me more kittens than Muric ever did!

Trafford played some excellent passes to the wingers towards the half way line as well.

[boatshed bill]

No but hearing ex premier league keepers talk about the number 1 position surely gives us an insight?

They all agreed that a number 1 is the only position on the pitch that doesn’t change personnel in the league. If someone is selected as number 1 they stay number 1.

True in most cases.
but we saw it change when Hart got left out when we were conceding too many goals and losing too often.

[Anthonini]

What I don't get is why people think Trafford looked nervous with the ball. I thought he looked very confident - probably too confident - in his ability to draw the forward and then play a pass to a man on the edge of the box who is marked. It didn't cost us a goal, but it gave me more kittens than Muric ever did!

Trafford played some excellent passes to the wingers towards the half way line as well.

I agree he made very few mistakes and did some excellent interventions. The conceded goals were difficult balls to catch. Good finishes one absolute bomb.

Vinnie sees them every day at training and he should decide. I could imagine that Trafford is an incredible linekeeper with a bring it on attitude. Decent footwork and still young, lot's of potential for improvement. Good decision-making. Overal he just looks more focussed like a top keeper than Muric who's a bit nonchalant looking. From a keeper you want him to win matches for you with great saves. Obviously if you can win a European championship without conceding a single goal you've proven that you can be that lucky charm kind of guy.

So I think it's logical Kompany gives Trafford time and patience to become that guy for us that wins games for us. It might take a month or two but will benefit the team enormously in the future.
I also see it in him. I think he does many things just right. He's performing well. Great talent for his age that can become way better.

Benching him would make him stagnate and he might lose confidence... Muric might get exposed against high level opponents and then you have two keepers that lost confidence. Better to stick with it now. And keep the pressure off a 20 year old lad will you he's a claret.