My concerns…

[CoolClaret]

I’ve slept on it and rewatched the extended highlights again from the game yesterday -

I just can’t shake this feeling that we’ve made a colossal f***k up on our entire approach to this season.

I feel like we’ve massively over thought our transfer policy; I strongly believe that Maatsen was available early in the window for 20 ish, Tella was available early on for 12-15 or so and THB is available for 15.

Now, I’d have said that’s a lot of money for three players but given we’ve been happy to spend a similar amount for individuals such as Odobert and Trafford then I have to ask why we wouldn’t get these deals done?

It’s ok claiming that we’re looking to sell on at a profit - but you know what else makes you money? Staying in the Premier league…

We went up as 101 point champions last year with Brownhill who captained the side a lot last year, in the champ TOTY has been dropped for the shiny new thing - same with Muric and for what?

I feel like we’ve lost our identity - yesterday looked everything like a team of mercenaries playing together - like a Watford team of their latter premier league days - who also got relegated with Sarr, Dennis & João Pedro (an extremely talented front three) after they lost the sort of steel they had with Doucoure & Capoue in the middle.

Yesterday was a masterclass in how to lose a game of football in the Premier league.

Tons of floaty wingers coming on and interchanging position whilst Villa happily sat back and tore us to pieces on the counter attack.

This four at the back becoming a three in possession - as soon as we lost the ball we weren’t in on them pressing, they simply bypassed our midfield in one simple pass then got it out to the flanks and in doing so totally caught us out of position all over the place, pulled our centre halves out and then put the ball back across goal multiple times for a few great goals and some more chances.

You look at the images attached - what were we thinking? It’s borderline criminal to set up like that against Villa, who’s bread and butter is counter attacking at pace in the channels - a complete hiding to nothing.

It’s all well and good being a purist and believing in your philosophy - a bit of pragmatism.

Looking like we’re signing Tresor which would have been fantastic earlier in the window - do we really need yet another floaty left winger/10 type now? Where are our fullbacks? What happens if Roberts gets a knock - we gonna keep playing centre halves out of position?

It’s all well and good claiming we need time to gel but 10 games to gel in the PL and you may as well kiss your season goodbye, it’s practically a third of the way in.

We had a proper team last season that simply needed a few additions, not the entire playbook ripping up and starting again.

[ClaretsPadiham]

Cheers the tactics circles Gary.

[Vincent'sCap]

2 games in the support of some is turning against,Pace VINCENT and the team.
Unbelievable

[taio]

2 games in the support of some is turning against,Pace VINCENT and the team.
Unbelievable

Exactly. And two games including one against the best side in the world and one against Villa who could easily challenge for top 6 this season under Emery. Some massive overreactions

[eastcoastclaret]

I’ve slept on it and rewatched the extended highlights again from the game yesterday -

I just can’t shake this feeling that we’ve made a colossal f***k up on our entire approach to this season.

I feel like we’ve massively over thought our transfer policy; I strongly believe that Maatsen was available early in the window for 20 ish, Tella was available early on for 12-15 or so and THB is available for 15.

Now, I’d have said that’s a lot of money for three players but given we’ve been happy to spend a similar amount for individuals such as Odobert and Trafford then I have to ask why we wouldn’t get these deals done?

It’s ok claiming that we’re looking to sell on at a profit - but you know what else makes you money? Staying in the Premier league…

We went up as 101 point champions last year with Brownhill who captained the side a lot last year, in the champ TOTY has been dropped for the shiny new thing - same with Muric and for what?

I feel like we’ve lost our identity - yesterday looked everything like a team of mercenaries playing together - like a Watford team of their latter premier league days - who also got relegated with Sarr, Dennis & João Pedro (an extremely talented front three) after they lost the sort of steel they had with Doucoure & Capoue in the middle.

Yesterday was a masterclass in how to lose a game of football in the Premier league.

Tons of floaty wingers coming on and interchanging position whilst Villa happily sat back and tore us to pieces on the counter attack.

This four at the back becoming a three in possession - as soon as we lost the ball we weren’t in on them pressing, they simply bypassed our midfield in one simple pass then got it out to the flanks and in doing so totally caught us out of position all over the place, pulled our centre halves out and then put the ball back across goal multiple times for a few great goals and some more chances.

You look at the images attached - what were we thinking? It’s borderline criminal to set up like that against Villa, who’s bread and butter is counter attacking at pace in the channels - a complete hiding to nothing.

It’s all well and good being a purist and believing in your philosophy - a bit of pragmatism.

Looking like we’re signing Tresor which would have been fantastic earlier in the window - do we really need yet another floaty left winger/10 type now? Where are our fullbacks? What happens if Roberts gets a knock - we gonna keep playing centre halves out of position?

It’s all well and good claiming we need time to gel but 10 games to gel in the PL and you may as well kiss your season goodbye, it’s practically a third of the way in.

We had a proper team last season that simply needed a few additions, not the entire playbook ripping up and starting again.

Agree, should have kept the spine and added young players to bring on over the course of the season. I think we will gel eventually but could well be playing catch up, which in this league may be too late.

[Sheedyclaret]

I suggest you have another sleep

[DCWat]

I don’t think that the support is turning. The OP has raised some valid points, worthy of discussion without being accused of not supporting the team or being negative.

The space left in our right back position was exploited again and again yesterday and needs addressing.

I’m really intrigued to see what our last bits of business will be in this window, they could make or break our season.

[RVclaret]

Agree, should have kept the spine and added young players to bring on over the course of the season. I think we will gel eventually but could well be playing catch up, which in this league may be too late.

Forest took 6 points from the first 11 games last season and stayed up. Wolves were the first team in PL history to be bottom at Christmas and stay up. Both were quite comfortable in the end.

[123EasyasBFC]

Exactly. And two games including one against the best side in the world and one against Villa who could easily challenge for top 6 this season under Emery. Some massive overreactions

I think the overreactions come from the simplicity of the goals conceded, villas 2nd goal was 20 passes and tore through us so fair enough but the only 5 goals conceded are so easily avoided but the team is a working progress

[GetIntoEm]

i think you should send this analysis to Vincent

[TPClaret]

I’ve slept on it and rewatched the extended highlights again from the game yesterday -

I just can’t shake this feeling that we’ve made a colossal f***k up on our entire approach to this season.

I feel like we’ve massively over thought our transfer policy; I strongly believe that Maatsen was available early in the window for 20 ish, Tella was available early on for 12-15 or so and THB is available for 15.

Now, I’d have said that’s a lot of money for three players but given we’ve been happy to spend a similar amount for individuals such as Odobert and Trafford then I have to ask why we wouldn’t get these deals done?

It’s ok claiming that we’re looking to sell on at a profit - but you know what else makes you money? Staying in the Premier league…

We went up as 101 point champions last year with Brownhill who captained the side a lot last year, in the champ TOTY has been dropped for the shiny new thing - same with Muric and for what?

I feel like we’ve lost our identity - yesterday looked everything like a team of mercenaries playing together - like a Watford team of their latter premier league days - who also got relegated with Sarr, Dennis & João Pedro (an extremely talented front three) after they lost the sort of steel they had with Doucoure & Capoue in the middle.

Yesterday was a masterclass in how to lose a game of football in the Premier league.

Tons of floaty wingers coming on and interchanging position whilst Villa happily sat back and tore us to pieces on the counter attack.

This four at the back becoming a three in possession - as soon as we lost the ball we weren’t in on them pressing, they simply bypassed our midfield in one simple pass then got it out to the flanks and in doing so totally caught us out of position all over the place, pulled our centre halves out and then put the ball back across goal multiple times for a few great goals and some more chances.

You look at the images attached - what were we thinking? It’s borderline criminal to set up like that against Villa, who’s bread and butter is counter attacking at pace in the channels - a complete hiding to nothing.

It’s all well and good being a purist and believing in your philosophy - a bit of pragmatism.

Looking like we’re signing Tresor which would have been fantastic earlier in the window - do we really need yet another floaty left winger/10 type now? Where are our fullbacks? What happens if Roberts gets a knock - we gonna keep playing centre halves out of position?

It’s all well and good claiming we need time to gel but 10 games to gel in the PL and you may as well kiss your season goodbye, it’s practically a third of the way in.

We had a proper team last season that simply needed a few additions, not the entire playbook ripping up and starting again.

Let’s get rid of VK. Your the man for the job by the sounds it

[taio]

I think the overreactions come from the simplicity of the goals conceded, villas 2nd goal was 20 passes and tore through us so fair enough but the only 5 goals conceded are so easily avoided but the team is a working progress

Clearly work in progress requiring realism and patience.

[Claretnick]

Just scan down the squad list and see the youthfulness of our players, huge change from the past.
These lads need fans who encourage, not constant criticism. They will learn from the manager and his team, who themselves are on a learning curve. No doubt videos of yesterday's game are being examined frame by frame today at Gawthorpe.
Let's cut a bit of slack after game number 2..

[ClaretAL]

I think everyone needs to think back to the beginning of last season where we had the same issue around the team gelling, and what VK's system was, and and some posters advising of league 1 status and definite relegation. At he same point Bastien et al were our main staters and it didn't take long for VK to shuffle the pack, and it clicked, the rest is history. Keep the faith, we are playing the elite, and will be punished for mistakes until it clicks, I a fairly sure the backroom staff are working relentlessly on sorting this out.

[arise_sir_charge]

I know I’ve said this before, but I find it quite comical that Coolclaret is anything but cool.

[claptrappers_union]

We just need time for the team to gel. We’ll get there.

[CoolClaret]

I know I’ve said this before, but I find it quite comical that Coolclaret is anything but cool.

Being cool is not giving a ******** about what lemons think just fyi

[Newcastleclaret93]

I get the concern, this is a very unique situation.

I think we have to have faith that VK knows what he is doing. It’s going to be a rough couple of months. I suspect we might only have 4-5 points by mid October.

However, I do genuinely believe there is enough quality in this team to stay up. VK needs time to bed in this team

[CoolClaret]

Just scan down the squad list and see the youthfulness of our players, huge change from the past.
These lads need fans who encourage, not constant criticism. They will learn from the manager and his team, who themselves are on a learning curve. No doubt videos of yesterday's game are being examined frame by frame today at Gawthorpe.
Let's cut a bit of slack after game number 2..

When you’re the 9th highest spenders in world football then you get rightfully criticised and questioned

[Spike]

Of course we are disappointed
I change my watch when we’ve lost 2 games in quick succession and haven’t had to change for yonks
I can’t criticise the Manager because we did great things last season. It does cross one’s mind that too many changes can’t be good but we started last season with so many changes
We need to be very selective in this last week of the window and fill the obvious gaps not just buy players with future expectations
In Vincent we trust!

[bobinho]

Thankfully, your concerns aren’t mine. Far far too early to be putting so much thought into why we haven’t managed to beat the best team in world football, and another team who are riddled with top quality established PL players that will likely finish in the top six.
We are building, and we are starting with the foundations. 17th this season will do.
Gotta be honest, I thought he’d get more than two defeats in before the “experts” came out to play…

[CoolClaret]

2 games in the support of some is turning against,Pace VINCENT and the team.
Unbelievable

No one is infallible. Call a spade a spade.

Yesterday was an Eddie Howe Burnley performance

[CoolClaret]

Thankfully, your concerns aren’t mine. Far far too early to be putting so much thought into why we haven’t managed to beat the best team in world football, and another team who are riddled with top quality established PL players that will likely finish in the top six.
We are building, and we are starting with the foundations. 17th this season will do.
Gotta be honest, I thought he’d get more than two defeats in before the “experts” came out to play…

Never said we should be beating City and Villa.

Vincent said post City that ‘this is the worst we will be all season’ well, against Villa we were levels below that first performance and looked poor.

It’s not losing - it’s the manner of the defeats

[Vegas Claret]

Look at who we've just played, look at this table - there's a reason why we've struggled

[Newcastleclaret93]

Thankfully, your concerns aren’t mine. Far far too early to be putting so much thought into why we haven’t managed to beat the best team in world football, and another team who are riddled with top quality established PL players that will likely finish in the top six.
We are building, and we are starting with the foundations. 17th this season will do.
Gotta be honest, I thought he’d get more than two defeats in before the “experts” came out to play…

I will also say Bobinho comments like “experts” arnt helpful. It’s a messageboard for fans to share there views.

Coolclaret has some pretty legitimate concerns, he’s not concerned about the defeats but rather the manner of them.

I am concerned about just how far ahead a team like villa looked. However I am confident that we will quickly turn around our form and step up a level. There were definitely flashes yesterday where we looked like we will be competitive at this level

[Claretnick]

When you’re the 9th highest spenders in world football then you get rightfully criticised and questioned

When have we ever been the 9th highest spenders in world football?
If we were doing that sort of spending season after season then fair enough for the constant criticism and questioning. We are in new territory here and, in my opinion, as fans we should be keeping quiet and watching on patiently....

[Boss Hogg]

I think everyone needs to think back to the beginning of last season where we had the same issue around the team gelling, and what VK's system was, and and some posters advising of league 1 status and definite relegation. At he same point Bastien et al were our main staters and it didn't take long for VK to shuffle the pack, and it clicked, the rest is history. Keep the faith, we are playing the elite, and will be punished for mistakes until it clicks, I a fairly sure the backroom staff are working relentlessly on sorting this out.

You could clearly see what he was trying to do after the first game last season. Even when we were drawing and throwing away leads you could feel confident it would come good. Yesterday was far off it and I don’t see how it will work setting up like that with the same players. The OP has a fair point. We needed to keep the bulk of what we had last season with strengthening in 2 to three key positions not blood a whole load of youngsters at once and bin half the team from last year from the off

[eastcoastclaret]

Forest took 6 points from the first 11 games last season and stayed up. Wolves were the first team in PL history to be bottom at Christmas and stay up. Both were quite comfortable in the end.

Let's hope we can replicate those teams then. There are many more examples that didn't survive with those starts.

As I've said. I think we will gel, but it's how long that takes and how far behind we might be that concerns me.

[CaptainKirk]

The number of football "experts" on here is staggering at times.
How do you know the strengths and weaknesses of obscure Belgian second division players?
When did you all become experts in deciding who is a good No 10, 6, 8 or 4 whatever that means.
What is a "pivot"?
What does "inverted" mean?
How do you know when 442 should be 433 or 235 or 42431???
What makes you think you know better than our professional coaches?
The usual suspects were all saying the same rubbish this time last year if I recall.
You are clearly in the wrong jobs!
How about you buy your ticket and then go and watch and enjoy the ride (or not).

I am definately no expert, but a blind man on a galloping horse can work out that it will take until Sep/Oct to finalise our match day squad out of what we will have by then and will then take until November for them to gel into a team.
Then we will see how we get on and that will leave plenty of time to get points on the board.

If in doubt, just remember - they are professionals and you, by comparison, know nothing!

[CoolClaret]

Worth mentioning that last year is completely different because we had accepted a rebuild was needed

What we didn’t need this season is 2/3 of our new starting XI being players that got us promoted as runaway champions.

Forest is different- they came up through the playoffs after a late season push.

Lol @ posters questioning my commitment. Never once booed at a game, super vocal trying to create an atmosphere at all times where a lot of folk are sat twiddling their thumbs

[CoolClaret]

The number of football "experts" on here is staggering at times.
How do you know the strengths and weaknesses of obscure Belgian second division players?
When did you all become experts in deciding who is a good No 10, 6, 8 or 4 whatever that means.
What is a "pivot"?
What does "inverted" mean?
How do you know when 442 should be 433 or 235 or 42431???
What makes you think you know better than our professional coaches?
The usual suspects were all saying the same rubbish this time last year if I recall.
You are clearly in the wrong jobs!
How about you buy your ticket and then go and watch and enjoy the ride (or not).

I am definately no expert, but a blind man on a galloping horse can work out that it will take until Sep/Oct to finalise our match day squad out of what we will have by then and will then take until November for them to gel into a team.
Then we will see how we get on and that will leave plenty of time to get points on the board.

If in doubt, just remember - they are professionals and you, by comparison, know nothing!

Just because some people like to actually learn about the game in depth doesn’t mean that you can throw snide comments at them.

Do you have an opinion on politics? Do you have to be a Politician to do so?

It’s hardly advanced nuclear science is it. There’s enough happening in front of a viewer and enough accessible data to come to conclusions about what you’ve just paid to watch.

[Spijed]

Forest took 6 points from the first 11 games last season and stayed up. Wolves were the first team in PL history to be bottom at Christmas and stay up. Both were quite comfortable in the end.

Here are the tables after 11 matches and at the end of the season

[FCBurnley]

Not going to name names but imo we had 4 /5 new signings who did not look premier league standard yesterday . 2/3 of those have potential to become good enough and 2/3 imo are downgrades from last season. I also thought it was interesting that when JRod came on he created two very good chances by making runs into space on the edge of the box. Sadly he missed both
It is crystal clear that we are missing Tella THB and Maatsen big time.

[iw1961]

A really good OP. My main concern is that we don't appear to have a leader on the pitch. At times I thought they looked lost. Cash had the freedom of the right in the first half, gaps everywhere. There is not enough experience on the pitch to see the problems and address them. We desperately need a Barton/Mee character that can gel the team together on the pitch. Brownhill would be my choice from the current squad
I went to a sportsman's dinner years ago. Grahame Souness was on our table. He spoke about taking over at Liverpool and how he had inherited an ageing side and he had brought in lots of players, it didn't work. He said clubs evolve into great sides, they are not the product of a revolution.
I appreciate it takes time to sort things out and truth be told we are in a mini league of the 7 clubs at the wrong end of the table. If we finish 17th it will be job done and a successful season.

[warksclaret]

Watched the extended highlights too, and our shape was all over the place. Our back four was playing like they had never played together before and looked short of a leader. I suspect Villa will not have an easier game. Plenty for VK to work on and I suspect he will be all over it like a rash. Lets hope we see some improvements in the way we set up v Spurs, who like Villa are a much improved team and will test us to the limit

[jrgbfc]

Yet again anybody daring to have an opinion that goes against the herd or deviates from "everything about the club is wonderful" is criticised.
I think the OP raises some good points. Lads like Brownhill and Muric had earned the right to start the season, can't have done much for team spirit to see the likes of Trafford and Berge go straight in ahead of them.

[CoolClaret]

Yet again anybody daring to have an opinion that goes against the herd or deviates from "everything about the club is wonderful" is criticised.
I think the OP raises some good points. Lads like Brownhill and Muric had earned the right to start the season, can't have done much for team spirit to see the likes of Trafford and Berge go straight in ahead of them.

It’s more that my actual points haven’t been refuted properly (because they’re accurate) more just attack with snide comments or trying to accuse me of being a **** supporter for the reason you mentioned.

No one can honestly come off that game yesterday and think ‘yep, unlucky there, battled hard but the best team win’

We got battered.

[123EasyasBFC]

Watching the game back the 2 jay rod chances at the end are massive, they aren’t half chances they really really good chances, first one comes at 85min and the second at 88min, either one of those goes in and makes the 5min added time have a totally different feel

[AfloatinClaret]

2 games in the support of some is turning against,Pace VINCENT and the team.
Unbelievable

Yeah, but be fair it was similar at the beginning of last season and if/when it comes good, those same posters will all be back again to tell us how they knew all along.

[RVclaret]

Not going to name names but imo we had 4 /5 new signings who did not look premier league standard yesterday . 2/3 of those have potential to become good enough and 2/3 imo are downgrades from last season. I also thought it was interesting that when JRod came on he created two very good chances by making runs into space on the edge of the box. Sadly he missed both
It is crystal clear that we are missing Tella THB and Maatsen big time.

You are the same poster who wrote off the likes of Muric early doors last season. I think the only thing crystal clear here is that we can trust the manager.

[NewClaret]

I think we’ve signed some very talented players, but I think Vincent has been a bit naive in expecting such young teams to take on City and Villa - two of the best teams in the division.

The only explanation I can imagine is that he wants these players to learn from their mistakes (hopefully quickly). I actually massively admire his faith in them but it’s clearly going to be nervy while we wait to see if that is well placed.

I’d personally have put some experience in the team for both games. Muric, Taylor, Brownhill. Maybe Cork.

Doubt it’d have changed either result but certainly protected the younger guys a bit.

[bobinho]

It’s more that my actual points haven’t been refuted properly (because they’re accurate) more just attack with snide comments or trying to accuse me of being a **** supporter for the reason you mentioned.

No one can honestly come off that game yesterday and think ‘yep, unlucky there, battled hard but the best team win’

We got battered.

Apart from the first 15 minutes or so of the second half when we played some very good stuff and got amongst em.

[CoolClaret]

Apart from the first 15 minutes or so of the second half when we played some very good stuff and got amongst em.

Rotherham, Blackpool and Reading had spells against us last season where they caused us a lot of problems mate.

One 15 minute spell with a few half chances doesn’t change the fact that we got absolutely schooled.

[evensteadiereddie]

When you’re the 9th highest spenders in world football then you get rightfully criticised and questioned

Not after just two games you don't.

[CoolClaret]

Not after just two games you don't.

If we were undone by individual brilliance that would be one thing.

When it’s systematically tore apart like we were yesterday then it’s different.

If we lineup like that against Spurs we will get smoked

[Blue Skies]

If you are that worried then lump on relegation at 3/1. There are five other teams below us in the betting.

[evensteadiereddie]

If we were undone by individual brilliance that would be one thing.

When it’s systematically tore apart like we were yesterday then it’s different.

If we lineup like that against Spurs we will get smoked

And that will be you judging us to be failures after just three games.
Mad.

[RMutt]

I made many of the same points as CoolClaret at the game yesterday. A of the optimism towards this year was built on the way the team performed last year. But it’s like we have an almost completely different team this year.
Some of that is out of the club’s control, last year’s loan players etc. but other aspects are within the club’s control.
I do wonder how much the requirement to turn young potential into saleable assets is dictating things. If it is built into the financial model we are following it makes Kompany’s job a more difficult balancing act.
Obviously early days so I’m not overly worried yet.

[BillyHamilton9]

My only concern is that you assume others would be concerned to hear about your concerns..

[CoolClaret]

And that will be you judging us to be failures after just three games.
Mad.

Yeah if we lineup the same way and get tore apart in transition against Spurs then it’ll be further indictment that we’re being extremely naive.

How is that mad?

What’s mad is setting up like that against one of the best counter attacking teams in the league