Why the panic?

[Conroy92]

Seen a lot of posts after yesterday's defeat talking about the poor recruitment, the style, the selection, everything. There's a very early feeling that we have looked poor and naive.

When the fixtures came out, a few of us posters tried to point out the run of the first 7-8 games were tough. Subsequently the Luton game was moved and the first run of 7 games looked even harder. Realistically after playing City, Villa and Spurs we are in the position many thought we would be in. It took as some time before getting up and running last season. I know we didn't get the left back in we required but we have made some strong additions and the window has been a positive. There is a chance of getting something at Forest and then for me there's another 3 games against top sides to find our way before the season starts for us a with a consistent run of fixtures we can realistically take points from. Obviously this is football and you never know what suprise results crop up but I challenge anyone to look at our run of first 7 games (excluding Luton) and see where anything more than 3 points would have come from.

Expectations of some posters maybe have left them feeling slightly demotivated, there was quite a few who thought we were comfortably going to be mid table, people claiming top ten. I think it's important people realign themselves to survival is the key this season.

The main thing for me is that we all stay collectively bought into this for now, we have seen in the past how negativity can wash over a club and bog it down.

Long way to go and results against city's, villas and spurs will not shape our season so why the panic?

Let's stay behind the team and Vinnie. UTC.

[StayingDown4Ever]

Seen a lot of posts after yesterday's defeat talking about the poor recruitment, the style, the selection, everything. There's a very early feeling that we have looked poor and naive.

Probably because we have been poor and naive.

[summitclaret]

Can't see any panicking. Just amazement at the naiveness so far. It's not the results. The last 2 PL performances have shown that we have learnt nothing and persist with set ups and tactics that are not going to work.

[Swizzlestick]

It’s that old cliche - it’s not the defeats, it’s the manner of them.

[brexit]

Lots of vested interests popping up i.e.
1. ALK are making the club a financial cripple
2. Charlie Taylor should be playing
3. We should have bought maatsen, tella and THB regardless of cost
4. We should never have sacked Dyche
5. Kompany is tactically naive

But
The panic is amongst a small number of vocal posters on this board who will always push their own agendas.
No-one I spoke to yesterday was panicking rather noting we have played 3 top 6 teams. The consensus was wait until the forest match that wil be a better indicator of our prospects for this year.
We don't have to be the best in the league this year just better than three other clubs in our mini-league of eight.

[Casper2]

Lots of vested interests popping up i.e.
1. ALK are making the club a financial cripple
2. Charlie Taylor should be playing
3. We should have bought maatsen, tella and THB regardless of cost
4. We should never have sacked Dyche
5. Kompany is tactically naive

But
The panic is amongst a small number of vocal posters on this board who will always push their own agendas.
No-one I spoke to yesterday was panicking rather noting we have played 3 top 6 teams. The consensus was wait until the forest match that wil be a better indicator of our prospects for this year.
We don't have to be the best in the league this year just better than three other clubs in our mini-league of eight.

Top 6 ?
Villa finished 7th and Spurs 8th last season.

[Pickles]

There's a very early feeling that we have looked poor and naive.

Wonder where that feeling comes from. We've been dreadful.

[Carwin261]

Unfortunately we need to play with 2 wingers,which leaves a very open midfield and we haven’t got the strength in midfield to out muscle the opposition who all seem to be built like brick sheds.

[Belial]

The only panic is with the bedwetters on here that have nothing better to do and clearly think they know better than someone with decades of first hand experience of top level football

FWIW in answer to the above post - the tactics and set up may be ok (and I guess we'll see when we play 'lesser' teams) however the execution hasn't been good enough as yet. We're playing ourselves into trouble and leaving far too much space for some of the best players in the league to exploit. It all needs tightening up but there's no need to panic... we're 3 games in FFS!

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

It’s been a dreadful start. Too many changes to the team that did so well last season leading to a lack of identity and leadership. Thankfully a break now for Kompany to have a major rethink on personnel and tactics.

[Hibsclaret]

Villa are 2nd to City in form since their manager arrived. Spurs have a manager that plays to their strengths more than last season’s manager.

There are at least 12 teams worse than them and we will be fine against most of them.

[CardyTheClaret]

Top 6 ?
Villa finished 7th and Spurs 8th last season.

I think the OP was talking about where they are this season, or where he thinks they'll be - and I don't think he's wrong.

[Casper2]

I think the OP was talking about where they are this season, or where he thinks they'll be - and I don't think he's wrong.

Villa are 8th

[mdd2]

Personally our position is always where I expected up to be but felt we may get a point from Villa or even beat Spurs as we have a good premiership record at home against Spurs
I feared our style of play carrying on from last season could be a problem and it clearly is
Recruitment
Had I known we VK seemed to have a budget of £100 million the first three or four on the must get were BeyerTHB Tella and maybe Maatsen
To spend up to £20mill on a keeper and not be prepared to get Tella and apparently offer up to £30 mill for Maatsen shocked me and to end the window with no LB apart from Taylor was a real shock
VK did a great job last season whilesale changes to squads rarely come good first season
I really worry for this season
We lost to those thee clubs but the way we have lost in midfield and defence so easily is a big worry
There are two or three players to me who have done well and they are OShea Foster and number 30
IMO we are leaving too much premier league experience on the bench or not even on the bench
If I were a Prem league manager I would smarten up my wingers and attack our left side which will remain an open gate
I think when fit we have 25 plus 8 under 21 and presently seem to be not playing our best Keeper a couple of full backs who aren’t full backs and an inexperienced midfield at this level with the experience on the bench
A better functioning MF and defence is a must by the time we play Forest
United seem to be a team we should get a result from given they have it this season trotting

[Hedontplayforyou]

Anyone remember the start of last season? When we played some good stuff at times but kept conceding shabby goals , and it wasn’t quite clicking.

Well we are in that transition again with lots of new players , and lots learning the demands of the league. Some strange decisions yesterday like but let’s start again after international break

[IanMcL]

Getting smashed every week and looking clueless, in a variable system, is not the way to learn and develop.

[summitclaret]

Anyone remember the start of last season? When we played some good stuff at times but kept conceding shabby goals , and it wasn’t quite clicking.

Well we are in that transition again with lots of new players , and lots learning the demands of the league. Some strange decisions yesterday like but let’s start again after international break

Sorry but this is nothing like last season. We were playing well from day 1, picking up points virtually every week. We had one issue then, conceding late goals from set pieces. As of now, we can't defend after we attack.

[CardyTheClaret]

Villa are 8th

For clarity, where I stated 'they'll be' that was refering to the end of the season. Just an opinion, but they are a very good side. I noticed you didn't mention Spurs position.

[MT03ALG]

I have just worked out our position after 38 games:
Played 38
Won 14
Drawn 7
Lost 17
Points 49
Position 10th.
Onwards and upwards (literally)

[123EasyasBFC]

People need to understand the difference between panic and obvious flaws in the first three games

[Boss Hogg]

Can't see any panicking. Just amazement at the naiveness so far. It's not the results. The last 2 PL performances have shown that we have learnt nothing and persist with set ups and tactics that are not going to work.

This. Men against boys so far. The power, athleticism and speed of thought of the other teams looks streets ahead. That’s before we get on to technical ability. We have far too many young players in at once ( who will be excellent in the future). We should have introduced one or two gradually and used 2 or three top quality PL ready signings to strengthen last years team.

[Newcastleclaret93]

The panic comes from the way we have been playing.

You can take three losses if the games are competitive and we look like getting something.

Let’s not kid ourselves, we were steamrolled by all three teams. You can understand city as they steam roll everyone. But we should at least be competitive against spurs and Villa.

I’ve got faith things will turn around but my lord that backline almost needs a miracle at this point

[MT03ALG]

No panic from Vincent.
He now has two weeks to work out what went wrong so far.
Note improvement after Rovers game and World Cup break last season.....

[Hedontplayforyou]

Sorry but this is nothing like last season. We were playing well from day 1, picking up points virtually every week. We had one issue then, conceding late goals from set pieces. As of now, we can't defend after we attack.

We’ve played the best team in the world, a team in some serious from since Emery took over , and a team on the up with a new manager playing good attacking football, who are also likely to be top 7-8.

It’s disappointing to see the way we’ve conceded but the boys just need supporting through it. The comparison with last season is the slow start, not the way we are playing but we did still concede goals. You could see a goal coming before half time yesterday a mile off, better game management and a bit more leadership is required .

[BleedingClaret]

It’s that old cliche - it’s not the defeats, it’s the manner of them.

Well we’re conceding goals like I expected
Thought City would hit 5 and the other two 2 maybe 3
Didn’t think we’d have such daft defences or a Kindergarten Keeper so about par
Thought we’d be overrun in midfield with a 3 or 4 and we are with a 2!
Thought we’d struggle for goals but we look dangerous
Play a solid system and we have the players to compete

[Marvins Van]

I think I will have a chop for my tea.

[kentonclaret]

Prior to the Manchester City game Vincent Kompany said “You will see the worst of my team today and from there on in we will improve game by game”.

Has that proved to be the case?

[pauliopaulio]

The only panic is with the bedwetters on here that have nothing better to do and clearly think they know better than someone with decades of first hand experience of top level football

FWIW in answer to the above post - the tactics and set up may be ok (and I guess we'll see when we play 'lesser' teams) however the execution hasn't been good enough as yet. We're playing ourselves into trouble and leaving far too much space for some of the best players in the league to exploit. It all needs tightening up but there's no need to panic... we're 3 games in FFS!

“Bedwetters”

We were terrible against Villa and even worse yesterday. A spade is still a spade no matter how optimistic you are.

I believe we’ll get better but to do so we’ve got to change how we play

[9thMay1987]

Not a panic but a concern.

In the last 3 home games the rival manager has taken off their star players after 70-75 mins, believing the game is up ,and giving the squad a run out.

Doesn't matter what I think or any of us think but their manager has seen enough.

Loved it last season when we could give players a taste of action, this season nothing depresses me more than the opposotion doing it to us.

[ksrclaret]

I have concerns because:

1. I liken our summer recruitment to sending the kids into the supermarket to do the big shop. They’d likely go straight to chocolate, crisps, and biscuits, and pick up plenty of them, with little thought for the balanced diet they would need throughout the week to remain healthy. We may have picked up some very good players individually, Koleosho in particular is a star, but as a collective we’re left with a completely unbalanced squad in both a positional sense and an experience sense.

2. We’ve gone away from the 4231 system that had us looking so bloody amazing last season when we won 10 in a row. We were never going to get close to repeating that but to rip it up entirely is surely the wrong move. The players look like they’re scrambling during every part of the game and it’s not surprising we’re shipping goals as a result. VK has also chosen to ignore his only true left back after the recruitment balls up meant he had to become more pragmatic.

[Burnley Ace]

Top 6 ?
Villa finished 7th and Spurs 8th last season.

The point being proved.

[RVclaret]

The panic comes from the way we have been playing.

You can take three losses if the games are competitive and we look like getting something.

Let’s not kid ourselves, we were steamrolled by all three teams. You can understand city as they steam roll everyone. But we should at least be competitive against spurs and Villa.

I’ve got faith things will turn around but my lord that backline almost needs a miracle at this point

We were definitely competitive against Spurs first half, Villa second half and City first half. Unfortunately you can’t go from competitive to switching off for 20 minutes against those teams as they will eat you up. The xG yesterday was 1.67 v 2.17, I wouldn’t call that completely uncompetitive.

And here you are with your usual hyperbole about ‘miracles’ being needed for a backline that’s come up against 3 very good attacking teams. What about the clean sheet at Forest?

[Pickles]

Prior to the Manchester City game Vincent Kompany said “You will see the worst of my team today and from there on in we will improve game by game”.

Has that proved to be the case?

Very much the opposite. It seemed a giddy comment back then and it's proving to be a daft one since. We've been more clueless and unfit with every ninety plus minutes we've played. Long way to go yet though and you've got to imagine we will improve.

[Newcastleclaret93]

We were definitely competitive against Spurs first half, Villa second half and City first half. Unfortunately you can’t go from competitive to switching off for 20 minutes against those teams as they will eat you up. The xG yesterday was 1.67 v 2.17, I wouldn’t call that completely uncompetitive.

And here you are with your usual hyperbole about ‘miracles’ being needed for a backline that’s come up against 3 very good attacking teams. What about the clean sheet at Forest?

Come on RV surely if you can see that back line is all of the place.

We conceded 20 shots yesterday. That’s a shot nearly every 4 mins.

We will not keep many clean sheets at all if we keep playing like that.

Come on we can’t use a clean sheet against Forrest reserves in a nothing match as a guide. We had clean sheets in pre season it means nothing

[RVclaret]

We’ve gone away from the 4231 system that had us looking so bloody amazing last season when we won 10 in a row.

We had the 4-2-3-1 / 4-4-2 shape in the first half yesterday to be fair.

[Casper2]

For clarity, where I stated 'they'll be' that was refering to the end of the season. Just an opinion, but they are a very good side. I noticed you didn't mention Spurs position.

I did ,they finished 8th

[brexit]

Top 6 ?
Villa finished 7th and Spurs 8th last season.

I am predicting this season apols

[kentonclaret]

We were definitely competitive against Spurs first half, Villa second half and City first half. Unfortunately you can’t go from competitive to switching off for 20 minutes against those teams as they will eat you up. The xG yesterday was 1.67 v 2.17, I wouldn’t call that completely uncompetitive.

And here you are with your usual hyperbole about ‘miracles’ being needed for a backline that’s come up against 3 very good attacking teams. What about the clean sheet at Forest?

An EFL Cup match featuring 2 much changed starting 11’s is hardly a template for the rest of the season. Forest restored their key players and got a result at Chelsea.
As Blackburn discovered yesterday having demolished Harrogate 0-8 just a few days earlier.

[Casper2]

The only panic is with the bedwetters on here that have nothing better to do and clearly think they know better than someone with decades of first hand experience of top level football

FWIW in answer to the above post - the tactics and set up may be ok (and I guess we'll see when we play 'lesser' teams) however the execution hasn't been good enough as yet. We're playing ourselves into trouble and leaving far too much space for some of the best players in the league to exploit. It all needs tightening up but there's no need to panic... we're 3 games in FFS!

Do you call everyone who has a different point of view a bedwetter ?

[Casper2]

I am predicting this season apols

Can you predict the lottery numbers also , cheers

[RVclaret]

Come on RV surely if you can see that back line is all of the place.

We conceded 20 shots yesterday. That’s a shot nearly every 4 mins.

We will not keep many clean sheets at all if we keep playing like that.

Come on we can’t use a clean sheet against Forrest reserves in a nothing match as a guide. We had clean sheets in pre season it means nothing

We have to change things against the better teams I agree.

It’s a big ask of O’Shea, as an example, to go from a low ish block for West Brom in the Champ to a high line against Son/Watkins et al.

But that wasn’t really the point, you said we haven’t been competitive at all and I disagree, I think we’ve been pretty good in parts against very good teams. 20 shots isn’t that relevant, the quality of chances was pretty close as the xG suggests. I’m with Kompany on that and trusting as the team progresses, there is more cohesion with the press and defence (basically exactly like last season).

[BabylonClaret]

Come on RV surely if you can see that back line is all of the place.

We conceded 20 shots yesterday. That’s a shot nearly every 4 mins.

We will not keep many clean sheets at all if we keep playing like that.

Come on we can’t use a clean sheet against Forrest reserves in a nothing match as a guide. We had clean sheets in pre season it means nothing

Well I wouldn't call a competitive cup game a nothing game so the clean sheet is promising - its also with some of our 'reserves' too. Hopefully that augurs we can picknup points against the less offensively gifted teams.

But our performance at times in the last 2 games reminds me a lot of how we were under Coyle in 2009 and that's worrying.

[GaryClaret]

I’m just sick of getting thrashed tbh. Weirdly there was a warning with the FA cup quarter final last season. We played far too open and idealistically. We hide behind it being against City etc but any team can do better than 5-2, 6-0 etc.

Yesterday was tactically inept given the warnings we have received so far this season. I don’t understand why he has turned his back on a lot of last year’s team. But whatever personnel play the balance between defence and attack has to be addressed. Playing centre backs as full backs for god’s sake.

It’s just all so overthought.

[ksrclaret]

We had the 4-2-3-1 / 4-4-2 shape in the first half yesterday to be fair.

Have you got one of those average positions graphics?

I was really struggling to work out how we were playing first half but at least if the shape resembles something from last season it gives hope we can get things right eventually.

[RVclaret]

An EFL Cup match featuring 2 much changed starting 11’s is hardly a template for the rest of the season.
As Blackburn discovered yesterday having demolished Harrogate 0-8 just a few days earlier.

Harrogate are in League 2. Forest made 7 changes and brought most first teamers on at 60 minutes. Silly comparison.

[Newcastleclaret93]

We have to change things against the better teams I agree.

It’s a big ask of O’Shea, as an example, to go from a low ish block for West Brom in the Champ to a high line against Son/Watkins et al.

But that wasn’t really the point, you said we haven’t been competitive at all and I disagree, I think we’ve been pretty good in parts against very good teams. 20 shots isn’t that relevant, the quality of chances was pretty close as the xG suggests. I’m with Kompany on that and trusting as the team progresses, there is more cohesion with the press and defence (basically exactly like last season).

The problem with your competitive thesis is that games don’t span 20 mins.

It’s like last year we blew teams away to the point where the games were not competitive, but in the games the teams had 20 min spells where they were decent.

That’s our problem over the full duration of the games I don’t think we have been competitive. As another poster said the opposition managers have felt so comfortable there star players have been pulled at the 70 min mark in our last two games

[CombatClaret]

I'm not panicking yet, I've got patience for VK to have time to get the team ticking.

The league looks a high standard this year, teams who have a wobble season in them every year or so eg: West Ham, Wolves, Palace etc have had good results or long spells in games. Even Sheffield were unlucky not to get a point vs City.

Yes, we have had a very tough start but we need to pick up some points against tough teams. In the unlikely event we beat 20th - 17th home and away it still only nets us 24 points. Console ourselves too much with 'They will finish/have finished top half' and our efforts and expectations will soon be focused on too few teams and too few points.

[RVclaret]

Have you got one of those average positions graphics?

I was really struggling to work out how we were playing first half but at least if the shape resembles something from last season it gives hope we can get things right eventually.

Big gaps in the middle again with that passing network is what I see. That’s the ‘in possession’ shape.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Big gaps in the middle again with that passing network is what I see. That’s the ‘in possession’ shape.

The interesting thing it shows me, is our full backs are way to high up the pitch. No wonder the CBS looked so isolated when defending

[colner]

Conroy92 has nailed it