Mixing it up a bit

[claret3561]

Looking at the first 3 games I think teams are really taking advantage of our dithering at the back, we need to start mixing it up a bit getting it up the pitch quicker, in foster we have a player who can win headers and hold it up allowing for the speed of our wingers and hopefully the skills and guile of amdouni and tresor. No way am I suggesting we go back to dycheball, just saying I think we need to play over other teams high press to relieve the pressure a bit more often. Thoughts.

[BabylonClaret]

Well it's what they all did to us

[cblantfanclub]

Absolutely Babylon felt like we just ignored any lessons we should have learn't - from Villa in particular.

[agreenwood]

Just we didn’t start pumping long balls last season when we made a slow start, there no chance VK is going to start “mixing it up” this season after 3 games.

[Spijed]

Brentford currently seem to have a good balance of no nonsense defending but very fluid counter attacking.

[FCBurnley]

Just watching Liverpool v Villa. Interesting that McGinn who completely dominated us has barely had a kick at Anfield !

[summitclaret]

We couldn't play long ball even if we wanted. Without THB and Muric, we don't have the skill set.

[CoolClaret]

Be decent if we had a keeper in net with an absolute rocket on him and a player that was very good at running in behind and controlling the ball over the top and finishing it first time…

Oh wait. Ones on the bench, the other is in Leverkusen

[Neil]

Be decent if we had a keeper in net with an absolute rocket on him and a player that was very good at running in behind and controlling the ball over the top and finishing it first time…

Oh wait. Ones on the bench, the other is in Leverkusen

Yeah all Premier league defences are vulnerable to long punt from the keeper

[Spijed]

Be decent if we had a keeper in net with an absolute rocket on him and a player that was very good at running in behind and controlling the ball over the top and finishing it first time…

Oh wait. Ones on the bench, the other is in Leverkusen

Foster looks like he could do that

[Newcastleclaret93]

Be decent if we had a keeper in net with an absolute rocket on him and a player that was very good at running in behind and controlling the ball over the top and finishing it first time…

Oh wait. Ones on the bench, the other is in Leverkusen

Unfortunately Coolclaret that tactic only works with defences as open as ours

[Granny WeatherWax]

Will take time. Has to play a midfield 3 and has to be less dogmatic about playing out from the back against the better sides.

[CoolClaret]

Unfortunately Coolclaret that tactic only works with defences as open as ours

If a team is pressing us high in our own box then there’s a direct out ball somewhere.

I’d back Luca and Foster to be able to get in behind most defenders in the league not named Kyle Walker.

Got a bloke on the bench that can find them with those sort of low trajectory rockets. Far from a Brian Jensen esque hoof

[CoolClaret]

Yeah all Premier league defences are vulnerable to long punt from the keeper

I think Leicester won the league doing exactly that, no?

[Newcastleclaret93]

If a team is pressing us high in our own box then there’s a direct out ball somewhere.

I’d back Luca and Foster to be able to get in behind most defenders in the league not named Kyle Walker.

Got a bloke on the bench that can find them with those sort of low trajectory rockets. Far from a Brian Jensen esque hoof

That’s the point though Coolclaret, I’m watching two teams right now that we hope to beat this season.

Neither Palace or Wolves are allowing any space in behind. They don’t have all there players on the half way line like we did for Sons first yesterday.

[BleedingClaret]

Just we didn’t start pumping long balls last season when we made a slow start, there no chance VK is going to start “mixing it up” this season after 3 games.

It’s not pumping long balls
It’s playing measured balls over the high press or into space over the top to utilise our pace as Muric did for Tella

[Newcastleclaret93]

It’s not pumping long balls
It’s playing measured balls over the high press or into space over the top to utilise our pace as Muric did for Tella

That’s in the championship though?

That just doesn’t happen in the premier league. And even if they do get the ball over the defenders there’s a sweeper keeper they’re ready to deal with it.

We are playing at a different level, stuff like this just doesn’t work

[Neil]

I think Leicester won the league doing exactly that, no?

Bit more to it than that. And the league has evolved and improved a hell of a lot since then.

[CoolClaret]

Bit more to it than that. And the league has evolved and improved a hell of a lot since then.

Granted but footy is still footy. If a team plays a high line then you can beat them in behind.

Principles do not change.

That’s the point though Coolclaret, I’m watching two teams right now that we hope to beat this season.

Neither Palace or Wolves are allowing any space in behind. They don’t have all there players on the half way line like we did for Sons first yesterday.

Well it’s kinda not, if a team presses you up high in your own half then there HAS to be a gap somewhere past their press. It’s about finding it.

Otherwise if a team is playing off a bit then we can play out without getting pressed into giving the ball away in disastrous areas.

The thread title was ‘mixing it up’ remember?

[Neil]

Granted but footy is still footy. If a team plays a high line then you can beat them in behind.

Principles do not change.



Well it’s kinda not, if a team presses you up high in your own half then there HAS to be a gap somewhere past their press. It’s about finding it.

Otherwise if a team is playing off a bit then we can play out without getting pressed into giving the ball away in disastrous areas.

The thread title was ‘mixing it up’ remember?

It may work once in a hundred times but the key is to play around and beat the press. Unfortunately we're too light in midfield and the central midfield are receiving the ball with someone up their backside and facing their own goal. Also our defence looks less comfortable on the ball this season, both because they are more pressured and personnel wise (I'm thinking O'Shea instead of thb particularly)

[CoolClaret]

That’s in the championship though?

That just doesn’t happen in the premier league. And even if they do get the ball over the defenders there’s a sweeper keeper they’re ready to deal with it.

We are playing at a different level, stuff like this just doesn’t work

You wanna see how many goals Klopp’s Liverpool has scored from a long ball from Allison to Salah/Mane running in behind.

Of course it works City have stung us with it with Ederson in the past with a ping over the top.

[CoolClaret]

It may work once in a hundred times but the key is to play around and beat the press. Unfortunately we're too light in midfield and the central midfield are receiving the ball with someone up their backside and facing their own goal. Also our defence looks less comfortable on the ball this season, both because they are more pressured and personnel wise (I'm thinking O'Shea instead of thb particularly)

Yeah but guess what?

If you have an in behind threat then teams that are smart will be aware of that and then not leave as much space in behind. It’s complimentary.

Or they believe in their style at all cost and perhaps concede a few in doing so.

If all you do is play out (poorly) and never pump one over the top then teams will press you high all day long

[Commy]

We need Muric in the goals. How many managers and players last year said it was like playing against 11 outfield players. I listened to an interview with Jed Wallace and he said West Brom had their plan and it all went out of the window because we had an extra outfield man with Muric. We might see some half way line goals against us but it might give us the sweeper we need.

[Commy]

You wanna see how many goals Klopp’s Liverpool has scored from a long ball from Allison to Salah/Mane running in behind.

Of course it works City have stung us with it with Ederson in the past with a ping over the top.

A few seasons ago, Liverpool had more long balls than we did under Dyche. The difference was that ours were classed as long balls but theirs were long passes .

[CoolClaret]

A few seasons ago, Liverpool had more long balls than we did under Dyche. The difference was that ours were classed as long balls but theirs were long passes .

Exactly this.

Not to mention ours probably did look like punts up wide/upfield because we had Nick Pope who for all his shot stopping and cross catching ability is light years away from Aro at passing a football and we often played games with Pieters on the wing and Barnes/Wood up top.

A far cry from the speedsters that we have at present!

[BleedingClaret]

That’s in the championship though?

That just doesn’t happen in the premier league. And even if they do get the ball over the defenders there’s a sweeper keeper they’re ready to deal with it.

We are playing at a different level, stuff like this just doesn’t work

Well it’s worked against us
It worked for Larson from Muric against Forest
And measured balls to Berge whose behind a retreating Cullen or Amdouni coming deep or Koleosho or Foster deep or over the top can work and are better than Roberts or AlDak getting the ball chest height on the touchline level with the edge of our box with a defender about to attempt to dispossess them and every out ball they can see covered

[Ric_C]

We do need a plan B. Remember City pumping a lot of long balls from Ederson when we went man for man up top

[Taffy on the wing]

It’s not pumping long balls
It’s playing measured balls over the high press or into space over the top to utilise our pace as Muric did for Tella

Trafford doesn't seem to be able to do this & yesterday most of our passes out from the back went straight to one of theirs....... Muric next game for me.

[Fretters]

I keep thinking about a performance by Norwich at the Turf, just after they'd been promoted by winning the Championship under Farke. They persevered with playing out from the back and we just pressed them, using our power to beat them easily, and they were mocked by our fans (on here too) for trying to keep playing like that.

I fear that's now us, so I agree with the OP.

[BleedingClaret]

Trafford doesn't seem to be able to do this & yesterday most of our passes out from the back went straight to one of theirs....... Muric next game for me.

100% agree

[Down_Rover]

That’s in the championship though?

That just doesn’t happen in the premier league. And even if they do get the ball over the defenders there’s a sweeper keeper they’re ready to deal with it.

We are playing at a different level, stuff like this just doesn’t work

We could do that if our sweeper keeper was on the pitch not on the bench

[NewClaret]

We need Muric in the goals. How many managers and players last year said it was like playing against 11 outfield players. I listened to an interview with Jed Wallace and he said West Brom had their plan and it all went out of the window because we had an extra outfield man with Muric. We might see some half way line goals against us but it might give us the sweeper we need.

Or he releases an extra man to play in midfield?

[aggi]

Just we didn’t start pumping long balls last season when we made a slow start, there no chance VK is going to start “mixing it up” this season after 3 games.

We did start mixing it up a lot more as the season progressed last year. After the Blackpool match in particular there was a marked difference.

[CoolClaret]

Anyone see the Liverpool game either live or on MOTD last night?

What did they do against Villa’s (unusual) high line?

I rest my case

[jlup1980]

I keep thinking about a performance by Norwich at the Turf, just after they'd been promoted by winning the Championship under Farke. They persevered with playing out from the back and we just pressed them, using our power to beat them easily, and they were mocked by our fans (on here too) for trying to keep playing like that.

I fear that's now us, so I agree with the OP.

I've said as much on another thread. We're a combination of Norwich under Farke and Leeds under Bielsa.
I remember we pushed on against Norwich and the game was over after about 10 minutes. They were embarrassingly bad at playing out from back and kept getting caught out. That's definitely us now. We're not good enough to do it against the best yet.