Amdouni

[aggi]

Looked an exciting signing when we got him but, from the limited amount I've seen, it's a bit unclear exactly what role he is playing and trying to fit him in is upsetting the balance of the team a bit.

Assuming Foster is starting and we're playing two wingers then can we afford another very much attacking player? Particularly if Tresnor comes in and starts drifting into the same kind of spaces. Any thoughts from those who have seen more than me as to how he will fit in?

[ClaretTony]

Looked an exciting signing when we got him but, from the limited amount I've seen, it's a bit unclear exactly what role he is playing and trying to fit him in is upsetting the balance of the team a bit.

Assuming Foster is starting and we're playing two wingers then can we afford another very much attacking player? Particularly if Tresnor comes in and starts drifting into the same kind of spaces. Any thoughts from those who have seen more than me as to how he will fit in?

We’ve also got Ramsey to come into that area too.

[lesxdp]

As a non " technical " football fan, I would just say I think we have the potential to score goals from many players. Just need to stop some going in the other end. How we do that I will leave to someone more knowledgable who is no doubt we'll paid to provide the answers. UTC.

[arise_sir_charge]

I think he looks excellent and will come into his own when we play some lesser teams. Baptism of fire this first 3 league games.

[RVclaret]

Looks like he can play any role in those forward areas.

His roles so far have been:

City - central forward
Villa - right sided 8/10
Spurs and Forest - more central 10 / second striker

Some fair points regarding affording another attacking player, given how open we’ve been centrally. If we are playing two wingers perhaps his position could be taken by Brownhill for now, at least in tougher games.

Still an exciting player and signing for me - ability is clear. Not sure we have any other players capable of playing centrally, on the half-turn and sliding balls through (beaut to Foster on Saturday).

[claretonthecoast1882]

Muric
Larsen Berg Tresor Ramsey
Benson Zaroury Odobert Koleosho
Amdouni
Foster

Switching between inverted wingers, false 2s and 3s defensive 4s and offensive 5s, roaming 6 and 8s and high line nines

[Quicknick]

I think Amdouni and Foster look like a great partnership.

[Jakubs Tash]

He really does look like a very good footballer who can make things happen. He was excellent in the 20 minutes or so he played v Forest last Wednesday - we seemed to revert back to the same shape we played last season and he played as one of the forward thinking midfielders on the right hand side.

But, I agree that right now, we need to be more pragmatic and if we need to play a midfield three of Cullen, Berge and Brownhill, for example, then that might mean a front three of Zaroury, Foster and Tresor which means no room for Amdouni to start just at the moment. And with the way the first three league games have gone I'm all for it.

[summitclaret]

I like him. For now if he starts he needs to be instead of one of the 2 wingers. We need a proper nr 10, i.e. an attacking midfielder in a 3 man cm.

So it's either him on the centre right with Foster down the middle. Or him down the middle with Foster on the centre left.

Take you pick from our many wingers, assuming 2 will play half games each approx.

The attacking midfield is one of Ramsey, Berge, JBG and Brownhill, if the latter is not further back.

[claretandy]

He's a luxury at the minute, we need 3 in midfield,he will be needed when we play the bottom teams at home.

[Pickles]

Has to be a central midfield three and he's probably the one to take out to make it happen.

[Quickenthetempo]

He has scored Vs forest and in the 2 friendlies against Man U and Dundee.

It's great to have 2 forwards in goalscoring form.

Where he plays is upto Vinny, he has a problem in the midfield being over run, but that's his job to solve.

[ClaretTony]

He's a luxury at the minute, we need 3 in midfield,he will be needed when we play the bottom teams at home.

I'd agree with that, as good as he's looked at times. We've been far too open against teams and Amdouni doesn't offer too much when we haven't got the ball as talented as he clearly is.

[equinox]

........................................Muric................................

.................O'Shea*...........Beyer.........Al-Dakhil.........

Roberts......Brownhill.....Cullen......Berge..........Taylor.......

........................Andouni.....................................................

................................................Foster................................


*Ekdal when fit.

This team would work, every player playing in a position they'd be comfortable in. It's never going to happen though and we're just going to get continually over run and caught out.

[DCWat]

It looks and feels very much like a window that didn’t quite deliver on what was needed in order to accommodate all of the players that we’ve brought in.

Based on what we know now, I wouldn’t have made one or two of the signings if it meant that we could fill other areas as a priority.

I suspect that January will see us recruit at least a left back, possibly a defensive central midfielder and maybe even another striker.

I just hope that we can at least keep pace before then - it’s not going to be easy, based on what we have seen so far, although admittedly against very strong opposition.

It’s a difficult puzzle to solve with the pieces available and I do wonder just how much of it was our own making. Did we focus too much on offensive positions or too much on certain individuals that we expected to sign?

On one hand it was a great transfer window but can it really be classed as such if key areas haven’t been addressed that will make the system work?

Saying all of that, it won’t at all surprise me, if in a half a dozen games time, Kompany has solved the current conundrum.

[equinox]

I just hope that we can at least keep pace before then - it’s not going to be easy, based on what we have seen so far, although admittedly against very strong opposition.

Villa aren't/weren't that good and we took the lead against Spurs.

[ksrclaret]

A talented footballer but for me I’d have him and Foster competing for the striker role in a 4231 system, and then Brownhill and Ramsey competing for the slightly more advanced midfield role.

A genuine number 10 is far too much of a luxury at the moment.

[claretandy]

........................................Muric................................

.................O'Shea*...........Beyer.........Al-Dakhil.........

Roberts......Brownhill.....Cullen......Berge..........Taylor.......

........................Andouni.....................................................

................................................Foster................................


*Ekdal when fit.

This team would work, every player playing in a position they'd be comfortable in. It's never going to happen though and we're just going to get continually over run and caught out.

So none of our 10 wingers ?

[Spiral]

Muric
Roberts O'Shea Beyer Delcroix
Berge Cullen Brownhill (Josh just in front of Berge and Cullen)
Winger Foster Amdouni

That team looks fairly balanced to me. Of the team that started against Spurs I think JBG is the one to make way for Brownhill. We lose out on a more creative passer in attack, whether that's JBG or whichever fourth attacker we play, in exchange for Brownhill whose positional sense and intensity between CDM and attack makes us more robust defensively (because he's not defensively lazy) and more able to sustain attacks effectively because the space between the midfield and defensive lines is closed by Brownhill. So with all that, having a ball carrier in Amdouni seems essential because it means we can have a more compact shape which we break out of with a dribbler rather than needing an expansive shape with players positioned to receive penetrating passes, and while we've got some good dribblers (Benny, Zaroury, Koleosho) I think Amdouni looks like the most natural and willing dribbler we have (based on the players we've seen).

[Spiral]

*sorry, space between the midfield and offensive lines is closed by Brownhill I should say, not midfield and defensive lines.

[Devils_Advocate]

Muric
Roberts O'Shea Beyer Delcroix
Berge Cullen Brownhill (Josh just in front of Berge and Cullen)
Winger Foster Amdouni

This would be similar to my team except im undecided on keeper and Id have Amdouni with Ramsey on the bench as game changers and then two from Tresor, Koleosho, Benson and Zaroury on the wings.

Also Id have Brownhill a little deeper and give Berge the free license to get forward

[equinox]

So none of our 10 wingers ?

Until they except some defensive responsibilities, no.

[Hedontplayforyou]

Shapes similar to this to develop during the game .

Cullen dropping deep as per last season to collect the ball. Brownhill alongside him and covering the right side of the pitch when Roberts tucks in.

Zaroury/ Tresor/Benson as other options for Koleosho and Amdouni.

But for Amdouni and Foster to remain fluid and drift wide/ deep we must have Brownhill in there to cover the grass when we lose the ball.

The variations of this are endless really with the different types of wide player we have now.

Eventually I think we may see Foster and Amdouni fighting for the one role up top. Remains to be seen but there’s a lot of interesting ways to see us set up. For me it tends to all revolve around us going with technically 3 centre backs sat back once Roberts moves central.

[123EasyasBFC]

Foster from the left when we are defending but when we are attacking foster and Amdouni next to each other is the only way to accommodate them both. But we all know when it comes to forest game it will be a 2 man midfield again

[claretspice]

Looked an exciting signing when we got him but, from the limited amount I've seen, it's a bit unclear exactly what role he is playing and trying to fit him in is upsetting the balance of the team a bit.

Assuming Foster is starting and we're playing two wingers then can we afford another very much attacking player? Particularly if Tresnor comes in and starts drifting into the same kind of spaces. Any thoughts from those who have seen more than me as to how he will fit in?

A personal view is that this is a fair analysis. In the old Dyche 442 days, it's absolutely obvious where Amdouni would fit in - just behind the striker and ahead of the 2 banks of 4. But that's not how we play now and there are relatively few teams who can afford to play with a genuine front 2 and 2 attacking wingers. You need a hell of a midfield 2 to accommodate it and I don't think it's a slight on our options to say they aren't at that level.

At present I think he has to play up front for us as a 9, which would mean Foster playing off the left. I didn't think Amdouni was effective off the right when he went there on Saturday and there's noone else. Whether that is the best balanced team, given Tresor and Zaroury also favour the left, is another matter.

That does mean the jury is out on whether he makes our most effective team. It is a little like Trafford: he's undoubtedly a good player but it isn't yet obvious that he's what the team needed to step up a level.

[Spiral]

At present I think he has to play up front for us, which would mean Foster playing off the left.

Foster 100% has the qualities to do this. You won't see him hugging the touchline, but he's definitely comfortable making those inside runs from wide, driving at the centre half or wrestling off the fullback/beating him in a foot race. I've got a memory of him beating Kyle Walker (I think it was) down our left when Walker went in for the sliding tackle, and Foster's stride was enormous, he just clipped it over the tackle.

[Colburn_Claret]

Amdouni looks fine
I think we need to play 4 4 2, with him and Foster playing off each other.
The problem he has is nobody is picking up his runs along the line and playing the right ball for him
Still learning of course, but teams are punishing us with early balls over the top, while we're still trying to walk the ball into the net.

[Nonayforever]

Amdouni is clearly a talent, but he doesn't fit in at the moment.
Foster is the focal point, of that there is no doubt. It's how VK decides to supply him.
Whether that is with wingers or with through balls decides the rest of the team.
We have a plethora of wingers but I think we can only accommodate one in the PL.

[summitclaret]

Amdouni is clearly a talent, but he doesn't fit in at the moment.
Foster is the focal point, of that there is no doubt. It's how VK decides to supply him.
Whether that is with wingers or with through balls decides the rest of the team.
We have a plethora of wingers but I think we can only accommodate one in the PL.

Agreed, but it makes you wonder why we have signed so many when we have no left back that VK wants to start.

[Nonayforever]

Agreed, but it makes you wonder why we have signed so many when we have no left back that VK wants to start.

Yes, strange one is the LB position. Can only assume Vitinho is the shoe in for that role and VK is confident in his ability.

[Carwin261]

Can’t image VK leaving Tresor out after he’s been chasing him for so long,also think they’ll be a place for the lad from Bristol City ,anyone who thinks we’ll become more defensive has another think coming ,I reckon we’ll be the 2023 version of Keegan’s Newcastle .

[summitclaret]

Yes, strange one is the LB position. Can only assume Vitinho is the shoe in for that role and VK is confident in his ability.

More than I am. We were spoit we IM. Without him we need a different set up.

[summitclaret]

Can’t image VK leaving Tresor out after he’s been chasing him for so long,also think they’ll be a place for the lad from Bristol City ,anyone who thinks we’ll become more defensive has another think coming ,I reckon we’ll be the 2023 version of Keegan’s Newcastle .

Then we'll have to build for the future because the naivity is not real. We have been sussed already. I like Trafford, but Muric has to play for his long passing to beat the press. Should have got THB instead for the same reason and one of many suitable keeper for nr 2.

[Nonayforever]

After promotion, I was very positive. Strengthen the team, tweak the formation, push on.
With all the new signings ( all good ) I'm now puzzled.
Can see us getting spanked in the league with one team and going on glory runs in the Cups with a second team.
Doesn't bode well for team spirit having all these wannabes.

[warksclaret]

Don't rule out a "free agent" market for a LB

[CoolClaret]

Still think he looked his most dangerous playing as a sort of ‘false 9’ against City in the first match with Foster on off the left -

This could work if Chaz was ever back in the side because Chaz can provide that sort of natural width, get down the byline and put crosses in and it would also work with Roberts stepping into midfield.

The only problem is we have signed a fair bit of talent that can play off the left and I’m pretty sure VK wants Foster predominately playing through the middle.

At the minute given our current predicament I think Amdouni would be best suited coming off the bench, where we can get a few more legs in midfield.

Hopefully Tresor’s introduction and ball playing skill will allow for us to retain possession better in the opponents half / final third and stop us getting countered in the manner that we have been where we keep being found out of possession/shape

I do feel that we’re in a real predicament here with our current lobsided squad and really are weak at the back and in defensive midfield - weak in terms of depth but also weak as in a lack of physicality. I really hope Massengo is the one because we really need someone who can rat about in there and get ‘stuck in’.

[DanH90]

As has already been mentioned, he is a luxury we cannot afford at present. Needs to be provided with good quality service, or he drifts too much out of the game. He’s got good feet and is clearly a technically good footballer, but in our league games so far he looks as though he tries to do too much and struggles a little with the pace of the PL (which will come.)

But it is obvious pragmatism is needed, and we can’t play with a traditional number 10, we need someone in that role who can help the midfield as a 3 when needed to stop teams walking through us the way they have been.

Brownhill and Cullen playing a little deeper, and Berge in the ‘Amdouni’ role as the most advanced of the 3 for me.

[Stevie Morgan]

False 9 with foster off the left, interchanging or impact sub. Central midfield berge, Cullen, Brownhill for now, we'll see where massengo is up to. Left back Taylor for me, not sure Vincent will go with that. Tresor to start. Means kololeosho off the bench which is about right for his stage of development. Loads of options to change it in second half once we have a foothold (hopefully).

[KRBFC]

........................................Muric................................

.................O'Shea*...........Beyer.........Al-Dakhil.........

Roberts......Brownhill.....Cullen......Berge..........Taylor.......

........................Andouni.....................................................

................................................Foster................................


*Ekdal when fit.

This team would work, every player playing in a position they'd be comfortable in. It's never going to happen though and we're just going to get continually over run and caught out.

That team is absolutely pants, to play 5 at the back you need incredibly good attacking full backs which we don’t have

[jurek]

I suspect that whatever 11 we start with will not be the same 11 at the end of a game.
VK likes to mix it up and I'd be surprised if in most games he doesn't bring on
at least 2 or 3 subs possibly more depending how the game is going.

We've got lots of options up front, not so many in midfield and very few in defence.

If Amdouni starts most games then I doubt he'll play the full 90 mins in most.

It's a conundrum for VK but one I suspect he enjoys.

[123EasyasBFC]

More than I am. We were spoit we IM. Without him we need a different set up.

It’s funny how people see the game isn’t it, kompany Maatsen for that inverted role, but I actually think Maatsen was more effective when he was wide as possible and over lapping zaroury

[CoolClaret]

It’s funny how people see the game isn’t it, kompany Maatsen for that inverted role, but I actually think Maatsen was more effective when he was wide as possible and over lapping zaroury

As do I, his ability to play defence splitting passes from deep/wide was a joy to behold, as well as doing bits on the overlap.

[123EasyasBFC]

As do I, his ability to play defence splitting passes from deep/wide was a joy to behold, as well as doing bits on the overlap.

Taylor can’t offer us the cominf central and the defence splitting passes but at least he can be a solid defender, good when defending corners and can still get up and down and do the overlap part and be able to cross with his strong feet.
We should have enough other players to play the defence splitting pass

[Sleeping Cat]

Amdouni looks a good player. I think it's been the system around him so far that has let him (and most of the other players) down so far.

I would personally go for 3 man midfield from Cullen, Brownhill, Berge & Cork, which would probably see him start on the bench at the moment, as I don't think we can continue to carry another forward thinking player (assuming a striker & two wingers always start) from a defensive point of view unless JBG starts as one of the wingers and he can "tuck in".

[equinox]

That team is absolutely pants.

Did you type "pants' on purpose?

[BabylonClaret]

Interesting that Amdouni has said how hard the step up is in an article for a Swiss paper
https://sportwitness.co.uk/i-laughed-bu ... -settling/
It's kind of about the unveiling vid but he does say the intensity of the league is a bug difference ...

The biggest difference is the higher intensity, the toughness in the duels. The players are on a different level, that makes it more difficult.

He will get there- just takes some time

[Spiral]

I recall a Swiss football journalist on one of the Burnley podcasts talking about Amdouni, and he sort of anticipated that there's be an effort needed in adjusting to the level. He mentioned something along the lines that double figures in goal contribution this season would represent a good season for him. The way I try to think of this season is that we're probably a season or two ahead of schedule, ahead of where anyone within the club expected or even hoped we'd be. We were net-negative spenders last season if I'm not mistaken, which suggests last season's was a team built to grow, not one built for immediate success. We're a team built to grow that ended up having an enormous growth spurt around late October last year which put us in the position of having to make more signings than a more gradual team development would have necessitated. The benefit of that is we're in the PL which is an opportunity you never turn down, it can never come 'too soon'; the downside is that patience will be needed with every one of our players. You demand instant impact with older players, not so much when about three quarters of the squad are 20-24 years-old because that's not realistic.

[Swizzlestick]

Good post Spiral. I think he’s shown plenty of promise and more than enough that he could be a real asset for us.

[NewClaret]

Great post by Spiral. Completely agree and personally didn’t think we’d be good enough to go up last year but ended up on a great run and well ahead of schedule.

Vinny admitted as much I think in a recent interview, saying we needed to add players to compete in this league.

Think we’ll see what level Amdouni is at and how much of an asset he’ll be when we play more equivalent opponents.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I recall a Swiss football journalist on one of the Burnley podcasts talking about Amdouni, and he sort of anticipated that there's be an effort needed in adjusting to the level. He mentioned something along the lines that double figures in goal contribution this season would represent a good season for him. The way I try to think of this season is that we're probably a season or two ahead of schedule, ahead of where anyone within the club expected or even hoped we'd be. We were net-negative spenders last season if I'm not mistaken, which suggests last season's was a team built to grow, not one built for immediate success. We're a team built to grow that ended up having an enormous growth spurt around late October last year which put us in the position of having to make more signings than a more gradual team development would have necessitated. The benefit of that is we're in the PL which is an opportunity you never turn down, it can never come 'too soon'; the downside is that patience will be needed with every one of our players. You demand instant impact with older players, not so much when about three quarters of the squad are 20-24 years-old because that's not realistic.

The perfect post, the key word is patience. Already we are seeing some start to turn a little and lose patience with some players. We aren't helped by the one direction type fans of Muric who are going to be on Traffords back whenever he plays in goal perfectly shown when some even chanted Muric's name during the game against Spurs. Not once last season did we have a half empty ground with over 20 minutes left of the match.

Will they make mistakes - yes, will we suffer another heavy defeat this season - yes, but I am sure every single player would prefer the full support of the "supporters"