VAR (Forest fan)

[Mist rollin in]

I despise what VAR is doing to the game, so whenever an incident crops up involving Forest, I always think its worthwhile giving a genuine opinion of the decision.

Most like-minded Forest fans will think we were extremely lucky, I've seen it a few times and whist on some angles you can see that the ball hit his arm, I don't believe its deliberate and the point of contact is quite high (its almost on his shoulder). The goal simply should have stood. With the red card VAR decision, tbh Foster has been a bit foolish.

The problem with VAR is that its analysing decisions in every detail, if they want to find something wrong, they will. It was meant to be introduced for overturning 'clear and obvious' errors. It's taking away too much enjoyment from the game, Burnley fans rightly celebrating a winning goal and then all that enjoyment has been taken away.

Looking forward to the trip to Turf Moor, I wouldn't be too downbeat with your start to the season; lot of teams near the bottom currently struggling, 3 points gets you out the mix at this stage of the season.

[Gordaleman]

Thank you.

Please send a copy of your post to the Premier League.

[Falcon]

Good post, balanced.

[jlup1980]

I despise what VAR is doing to the game, so whenever an incident crops up involving Forest, I always think its worthwhile giving a genuine opinion of the decision.

Most like-minded Forest fans will think we were extremely lucky, I've seen it a few times and whist on some angles you can see that the ball hit his arm, I don't believe its deliberate and the point of contact is quite high (its almost on his shoulder). The goal simply should have stood. With the red card VAR decision, tbh Foster has been a bit foolish.

The problem with VAR is that its analysing decisions in every detail, if they want to find something wrong, they will. It was meant to be introduced for overturning 'clear and obvious' errors. It's taking away too much enjoyment from the game, Burnley fans rightly celebrating a winning goal and then all that enjoyment has been taken away.

Looking forward to the trip to Turf Moor, I wouldn't be too downbeat with your start to the season; lot of teams near the bottom currently struggling, 3 points gets you out the mix at this stage of the season.

It's ruining any enjoyment of the game and needs to be addressed before it seriously turns people off. There's no point celebrating a goal anymore as you know the VAR officials are looking for a reason to chalk the goal off. VAR got involved 5 times last night:

1. Hudson-Odoi goal checked for offside
2. Hudson-Odoi goal checked for handball
3. Disallowed goal
4. The penalty check just before the Foster red card
5. Foster red card

The Foster red card is correct but in my opinion there was no need to even review the first 4 incidents and had none of them been reviewed I don't think anyone would be saying the officials had made a mistake. It's interfering for the sake of it.

[Sozturf7]

I despise what VAR is doing to the game, so whenever an incident crops up involving Forest, I always think its worthwhile giving a genuine opinion of the decision.

Most like-minded Forest fans will think we were extremely lucky, I've seen it a few times and whist on some angles you can see that the ball hit his arm, I don't believe its deliberate and the point of contact is quite high (its almost on his shoulder). The goal simply should have stood. With the red card VAR decision, tbh Foster has been a bit foolish.

The problem with VAR is that its analysing decisions in every detail, if they want to find something wrong, they will. It was meant to be introduced for overturning 'clear and obvious' errors. It's taking away too much enjoyment from the game, Burnley fans rightly celebrating a winning goal and then all that enjoyment has been taken away.

Looking forward to the trip to Turf Moor, I wouldn't be too downbeat with your start to the season; lot of teams near the bottom currently struggling, 3 points gets you out the mix at this stage of the season.

Totally agree, as will majority of fans. Get to "Clear and obvious errors" and things will be more like what was invisaged at the outset of VAR.

[bfcjg]

When every pundit,commentator ex and current players are questioning the impartiality of VAR it really does bring its validity into question.

[IPAclaret]

In reply to Forest fan "Mist rollin in''

good to hear an opposing fans views especially one so fair and unbiased ...

Red card for Foster absolutely correct but he is clearly being held / fouled beforehand hence his silly reaction. VAR scrutinize the elbow but not Worrell's foul, why ?? who then goes down like he's been shot

Very harsh to give handball by Berge which was neither a clear and obvious error or deliberate and he was fouled by McKenna just before the handball incident in any case which again is missed by VAR, what a surprise

ridiculous to yellow card Trafford at the start of the game without any warning. If you watch it back, he goes to pass the ball out but the player is then closed down by a Forest player so stops to look for another Burnley shirt, the crowd start whistling and super ref books him. The inconsistency is so annoying, we see obvious time wasting late into the second half that regularly goes unpunished

3 points would have really got us up and running last night and I think we deserved it (just), by hey ho, this is how it was for us in the Prem for a few seasons and no doubt will be again

UTC

[Hipper]

It's ruining any enjoyment of the game and needs to be addressed before it seriously turns people off. There's no point celebrating a goal anymore as you know the VAR officials are looking for a reason to chalk the goal off. VAR got involved 5 times last night:

1. Hudson-Odoi goal checked for offside
2. Hudson-Odoi goal checked for handball
3. Disallowed goal
4. The penalty check just before the Foster red card
5. Foster red card

The Foster red card is correct but in my opinion there was no need to even review the first 4 incidents and had none of them been reviewed I don't think anyone would be saying the officials had made a mistake. It's interfering for the sake of it.

Surely VAR checks every goal and presumably any possible serious incident such as the Foster red card. I have no objection to VAR checking these things as I thought that's why it was introduced.

Before VAR we would moan about goals awarded when there was a handball that the officials hadn't seen. Now we moan because VAR finds these errors.

We clearly can't have both. Take the Foster red card. It wasn't spotted, as far as I can see, by any of the officials. All we had was a Forest player in a heap on the ground (and to be fair there wasn't much play acting by either side last night) and Forest players complaining to the ref. Surely no-one can argue that it is not a red card when you see the various televised views. Without VAR Foster gets away with it. Maybe it would have been spotted later in a review but that doesn't help on the night.

Of course VAR still gets things wrong as it is still in the end about opinions. It's not an exact science like some people wish it to be. It is however more exact then match officials alone but that's it.

[Rowls]

Hi Mist Rollin Inn

Are you anything to do with the micro pub up on Alfreton road? If so, it's a nice little boozer and keep up the good work.

[dsr]

Surely VAR checks every goal and presumably any possible serious incident such as the Foster red card. I have no objection to VAR checking these things as I thought that's why it was introduced.

Before VAR we would moan about goals awarded when there was a handball that the officials hadn't seen. Now we moan because VAR finds these errors.

We clearly can't have both. Take the Foster red card. It wasn't spotted, as far as I can see, by any of the officials. All we had was a Forest player in a heap on the ground (and to be fair there wasn't much play acting by either side last night) and Forest players complaining to the ref. Surely no-one can argue that it is not a red card when you see the various televised views. Without VAR Foster gets away with it. Maybe it would have been spotted later in a review but that doesn't help on the night.

Of course VAR still gets things wrong as it is still in the end about opinions. It's not an exact science like some people wish it to be. It is however more exact then match officials alone but that's it.

The problem isn't that VAR checks it, it's that it checks it to the nth degree. Yesterday's VAR ref clearly felt that his job was to disallow the goal if at all possible. That's why he used ultra-slow motion for both Hudson-Odoi's goal and for Foster's goal to try and find some excuse to disallow it. With Foster's goal, he succeeded.

The point of "clear and obvious errors" is that referees' decisions will not be overturned unless the decision is clearly and obviously wrong. You don't change the decision for a "could have gone either way" or a "not really sure" verdict.

Both England and Jones yesterday felt that the decision to allow the goal was clearly and obviously wrong, and by extension they must believe that anyone who disagrees is also clearly and obviously wrong - this includes Keith Hackett, Thomas Frank, and just about everyone else who has commented. The ref and VAR man are so sure of their rightness that they believe no other opinion is reasonable. (At least, they were last night. The fact that no other beggar agrees with them might - I only say might - have made them have another think.)

[dsr]

Of course VAR still gets things wrong as it is still in the end about opinions. It's not an exact science like some people wish it to be. It is however more exact then match officials alone but that's it.

One of the crucial opinions in football is the opinion that you have scored a goal. Why do fans celebrate goals? It's because they have scored. Not, as the VAR aficianados would have it, because they have won a ticket to the VAR lottery which might say they have scored or it might not.

The benefits of (marginally) increased accuracy of VAR, even when it gets it right, aren't worth the costs.

[Goalposts]

Hackett and Halsey have both come out today and said ridiculous decision, for disallowing the goal

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Maybe Howard Webb should be permanently in the var room making decisions, might save him making apologies every week if he reckons he knows what’s what.

[turfytopper]

My take on VAR
No Burnley players thought it was handball.
No Forest players thought it was handball.
No Forest supporters expected it to be disallowed for handball.
No Burnley supporters expected it to be disallowed for handball.

That's the problem with VAR

[ClaretTony]

Hackett and Halsey have both come out today and said ridiculous decision, for disallowing the goal

Anyone with an ounce of sense and any understanding of the game would come out and say it was a ridiculous decision

[bfcmik]

Surely VAR checks every goal and presumably any possible serious incident such as the Foster red card. I have no objection to VAR checking these things as I thought that's why it was introduced.

Before VAR we would moan about goals awarded when there was a handball that the officials hadn't seen. Now we moan because VAR finds these errors.

We clearly can't have both. Take the Foster red card. It wasn't spotted, as far as I can see, by any of the officials. All we had was a Forest player in a heap on the ground (and to be fair there wasn't much play acting by either side last night) and Forest players complaining to the ref. Surely no-one can argue that it is not a red card when you see the various televised views. Without VAR Foster gets away with it. Maybe it would have been spotted later in a review but that doesn't help on the night.

Of course VAR still gets things wrong as it is still in the end about opinions. It's not an exact science like some people wish it to be. It is however more exact then match officials alone but that's it.

But the idea of VAR isn't to check to the nth degree it is to check for "clear and obvious" errors. As such this should only be allowed to check the footage IN REAL TIME. Stop frame and slo-mo generally lose their general situational component and do not necessarily show the reality.

[TheFamilyCat]

Hackett and Halsey have both come out today and said ridiculous decision, for disallowing the goal

Good for them. Does us no sodding use though.

[THEWELLERNUT70]

Anyone with an ounce of sense and any understanding of the game would come out and say it was a ridiculous decision

Yet there's a couple of Wally's on here that say it should have been

[FCBurnley]

When the VAR crooks were reviewing the Foster incident could someone please explain why they first did not review Foster being clearly held and hence a penalty to Burnley. As it was they only reviewed Fosters frustrated elbow and rightly issued a red card. It’s not what they say it’s what they don’t say ! That’s how crooked Governments operate. So I guess no reason for PL crooks to be the same. I loved the Championship and I hate the Premier League. I wonder why !!!!! FU Jones

[Mist rollin in]

Really interesting to read the view of opposing fans; post-match view from most Forest fans is that we were very lucky.

General consensus from your responses is that VAR simply isn't working. Like someone pointing out, VAR is currently looking at everything to the nth degree, which wasn't its initial intention. When the official is being referred to the monitor, he's basically being told he's got something wrong; it's very rare that a referee sticks with his on field decision.

If you look at something enough times, you'll find something, so in this case, they searched long enough to find a handball. Yet, bizarrely, in the Man U incident vs Wolves, they don't even overturn a clear and obvious error - its infuriating.

Technology works in Cricket, Rugby and Tennis - yet somehow it's not working in football.

[RicardoMontalban]

Really interesting to read the view of opposing fans; post-match view from most Forest fans is that we were very lucky.

General consensus from your responses is that VAR simply isn't working. Like someone pointing out, VAR is currently looking at everything to the nth degree, which wasn't its initial intention. When the official is being referred to the monitor, he's basically being told he's got something wrong; it's very rare that a referee sticks with his on field decision.

If you look at something enough times, you'll find something, so in this case, they searched long enough to find a handball. Yet, bizarrely, in the Man U incident vs Wolves, they don't even overturn a clear and obvious error - its infuriating.

Technology works in Cricket, Rugby and Tennis - yet somehow it's not working in football.

I think there’s a cultural issue at play with English referees. I heard a comment on a pod that in England it’s used far more in the EPL than foreign leagues and I can’t help feeling that our officials have got into some doom spiral where they are so fixated on getting every minute decision correct, they’re actually overanalysing situations and getting the wrong. If they reduced the usage of VAR in games, accepted that the tightest calls they may not always get right, we’d be in a much better place.

But that won’t happen because of some odd sense of infallibility the PGMOL seems to have about itself.

[BabylonClaret]

My take on VAR
No Burnley players thought it was handball.
No Forest players thought it was handball.
No Forest supporters expected it to be disallowed for handball.
No Burnley supporters expected it to be disallowed for handball.

That's the problem with VAR

You could say the same for Hudson-Odoye's goal. I was surprised to see the check.

[Big Vinny K]

Good to see opposition fans posting such unbiased and reasonable comments.
If the disallowed goal would have been scored by Forest or any other team then I think the vast majority of our fans would agree that we had been extremely fortunate.
There seems to be a very wide consensus that the goal should not have been disallowed.

After initially being quite supportive of VAR I now think it’s grown into something that is ruining the game with far too many grey areas combined with an inconsistency amongst officials which is beyond belief.
The officials between them seem to have decided what they think VAR should look like - their own definition of clear and obvious which is the direct opposite of these 2 words ; unwritten rules around being summoned to the monitor which in 99% of cases is nothing more than a pointless gesture to everyone that they are following a process (when in reality referees have been told not to think for themselves and change the VAR recommended decision).

As for the bias that still remains with certain big managers and big teams I hear people saying these have always been there before VAR with the likes of Sir Alex, Wenger etc. That is undoubtedly the case but the big difference now is that surely that was one of the things VAR was supposed to resolve. At least before you could fabricate that a referee was incompetent or had made a genuine mistake - how can you say this now when it’s multiple officials checking each other and still getting it f’in wrong ?

[IanMcL]

Good poster. A football fan, not a forensic detective!

[PaintYorkClaretnBlue]

Var should look at incidents from all angles in real time, if you can’t see anything obviously wrong in real time then the referees decision stands.

Slowing everything down distorts the image and makes things less clear in certain circumstances. In any case, the game isn’t played in slow motion, things should be assessed in real time only.

[turfytopper]

You could say the same for Hudson-Odoye's goal. I was surprised to see the check.

exactly....again everyone in the stadium accepted the goal.
So the only surprise was it was checked by VAR. At least that one was given as a goal. But then you'd have to ask why bother?