Inept and spineless

[KRBFC]

Luton beat a team with 69 years of top flight experience today , how does that fit with your argument

Also we didn’t bounce back with the same group of players last season, that just makes no sense

I meant after the first Dyche PL season we were relegated and kept together the majority of the side (bar Tripps and Ings) and bounced back with largely the same group.

Keeping the same group wasn’t possible last season, we needed the cash to rebuild, contracts were ending, players got old and the good ones wanted to leave.

[Carwin261]

I started a thread a week or two back, quoting VK stating that we may have to have one bad season in order to have ten good ones (or words to that effect). I'm not saying for a minute that there was a lack of effort today, but it does make you wonder if psychologically, the team and management are looking much longer term before we're a team to be reckoned with at this level.

He also said that we’d get better every game unfortunately today that has been put to bed.

[kentonclaret]

How long have Palace been in the PL though? Must be over 10 years in a row? We are year 1.

Plus, how long has Roy Hodgson been managing at the highest level? Burnley knew they were taking a gamble in appointing a rookie manager, which came off spectacularly in the Championship but is perhaps being exposed during his first season at this level. Frank Lampard played for many seasons in the PL and at international level but that didn’t make him a great manager.

[Vegas Claret]

I started a thread a week or two back, quoting VK stating that we may have to have one bad season in order to have ten good ones (or words to that effect). I'm not saying for a minute that there was a lack of effort today, but it does make you wonder if psychologically, the team and management are looking much longer term before we're a team to be reckoned with at this level.

of course they are hence the reason we hardly signed any experience. Long term looks good imho as long as VK stays - also need to remember VK is still learning and despite playing at this level it's his first season as a manager at it and for a fair chunk of the fixtures he's up against vastly more experienced guys who have far better players to chose from. If it was as easy as some are suggesting (those that don't seem to be able to comprehend that a footballer who cost 50 million will be better than the one who cost 5 million 99% of the time ) then we might as well have saved 80 million and fielded the Barrowford Celtic first 11

[Spijed]

I meant after the first Dyche PL season we were relegated and kept together the majority of the side (bar Tripps and Ings) and bounced back with largely the same group.

Keeping the same group wasn’t possible last season, we needed the cash to rebuild, contracts were ending, players got old and the good ones wanted to leave.

With moneyball being how we operate, is it going to be possible to keep players this season as well? A few are likely to attract bids and if they meet a certain threshold they will leave. It's how we have to operate to meet our financial commitments, unless we stay up, in which case the PL payments take care of any debt we have. But I suspect we'll still sell players.

The risk is we'll never have a settled squad, regardless of whether we survive or not.

[ksrclaret]

Plus, how long has Roy Hodgson been managing at the highest level? Burnley knew they were taking a gamble in appointing a rookie manager, which came off spectacularly in the Championship but is perhaps being exposed during his first season at this level. Frank Lampard played for many seasons in the PL and at international level but that didn’t make him a great manager.

Lampard got worse the more he managed in the PL.

Let’s hope VK fares a little better.

[ClaretLoup]

Fifth clean sheet in succession for the Mags underlines how tough it was to get at Newcastle and even if you break through Nick Pope fills the goal as he did with that early chance and then made a brilliant save from that header in the second half.

One thing that stood out for me was that before the goal we were making it difficult for the Mags to play out from the back, after the goal the shoe was on the other foot and they made it hard going even to get out of our own half. In the second half about 50% of the plays out from the back by Trafford were long punts. Either way after the first goal the ball seemed to end up very quickly in Newcastle’s possession. Given Popey’s lack of ability with his feet Newcastle were allowed to stroll out with the ball from the back with comparative comfort. I think Foster will make a big difference re this factor.

I also agree with those mystified by not putting a winger up against Trippier.

[timshorts]

Against a Newcastle side that have only lost once at home in 2023…

Well, to be fair, they threw that one away against 10 men.

[fidelcastro]

He also said that we’d get better every game unfortunately today that has been put to bed.

As others have alluded to, you have to take into account the quality of the opposition. Especially ones who are owned by oil rich countries.

[Vegas Claret]

With moneyball being how we operate, is it going to be possible to keep players this season as well? A few are likely to attract bids and if they meet a certain threshold they will leave. It's how we have to operate to meet our financial commitments, unless we stay up, in which case the PL payments take care of any debt we have. But I suspect we'll still sell players.

The risk is we'll never have a settled squad, regardless of whether we survive or not.

not harmed Brighton much but they are way further along their journey. If we bring young lads in and sell them on to bigger and better things that helps us attract the next one as they see a route to a big club.

[Newcastleclaret93]

not harmed Brighton much but they are way further along their journey. If we bring young lads in and sell them on to bigger and better things that helps us attract the next one as they see a route to a big club.

Vegas Brighton didn’t do we are doing.

They only started the so called money ball tactic after they became a settled premier league side.

[kentonclaret]

Kindly explain how Wolves managed to win today

Reading Pep’s comments in the media over the past few days, Wolves won because the City players are exhausted and their squad is down to the bare bones.

Ditto for Manchester United and Ten Haag.

[Vegas Claret]

Vegas Brighton didn’t do we are doing.

They only started the so called money ball tactic after they became a settled premier league side.

" but they are way further along their journey"..............this bit. Not harmed them being bankrolled either but the point was more about rate of squad turnover which is something they have done consistently for at least 5 years

[Newcastleclaret93]

" but they are way further along their journey"..............this bit. Not harmed them being bankrolled either but the point was more about rate of squad turnover which is something they have done consistently for at least 5 years

Honestly not sure I agree.

22-23 season was the first year I think they dramatically changed there recruitment policy and that was funded by selling a home grown player for ridiculous money (Ben white).

[Spijed]

not harmed Brighton much but they are way further along their journey. If we bring young lads in and sell them on to bigger and better things that helps us attract the next one as they see a route to a big club.

But isn't that where Tony Bloom's money helped them to prop-up any financial shortfall?

We have to sell out of necessity to meet our financial obligations, whereas his money allowed them far more leeway in that respect.

[Jakubclaret]

If we go through the season without picking up a point against the top ten then we will almost certainly be relegated. These games are all ridiculously tough, but we will need the odd freak result or backs to the wall performance. Or even to take advantage of a ‘top ten’ team when they’re miles off their best like we could have done against Man Utd.

That's not entirely true but in fairness you did include the word almost. Survival is possible also providing we win most of our games against lower placed sides without needing to win or draw against the higher placed sides. It's unlikely such a scenario would happen anyway & over the course of the season you would expect the odd upset.

[Vegas Claret]

Honestly not sure I agree.

22-23 season was the first year I think they dramatically changed there recruitment policy and that was funded by selling a home grown player for ridiculous money (Ben white).

they must have signed 30 players and let them go without them making any impact at all, they've had a big turnover of players. Anyway, **** Brighton back to Burnley !

[warksclaret]

I have to confess to being confused.Obviously want to support my team after a sensational season last year, and lots of positives so far. But the PL is a whole different world as witnessed by some unstoppable goals against us which the team and Trafford had absolutely no chance of stopping there has been a great degree of gifting and naievity in most of these. But in just about every game, the mistakes continue. We have exciting build up play through Koleosho and at times Amoundi but no end product, with no one in that 6 yard box.The Burnleyof the last decade has beaten every PL side and with a number of less gifted player We keep talking about our original fixtures and how tough they are, and yes 5 of our first 6 games have been against the top 10. However if we are to stay up we do at times need to beat and as a minimum draw against some of the top sides. I am at Luton on Tuesday and I am certain that is going to be a barometer of this seasons fortunes

[Nori1958]

We all have our different points of view ,does it really need a comment like that?

As much as I disagree with your original post, and said so.... Personal abuse such as that is unacceptable, but goes unpunished far too often on here, which is why it continues

[Carwin261]

Looking at your previous post Vincent’s Cap it appears that bellend is a term you frequently used ,it’s happen a case of monkeys smell their own muck first ,and very appropriately the cap definitely fits you my friend.

[Elizabeth]

If we go through the season without picking up a point against the top ten then we will almost certainly be relegated. These games are all ridiculously tough, but we will need the odd freak result or backs to the wall performance. Or even to take advantage of a ‘top ten’ team when they’re miles off their best like we could have done against Man Utd.

I think everything has to be put in context. We are a side in the early stages of PL development and have been challenged with an exceptionally tough early fixture list.
So while your points would normally apply I think we all need to be patient and realise that Kompany is instilling a method of playing that will pay off for us.
I believe that will happen sooner rather than later and that what you are asking for has a much better chance of happening in the second half of the season.
Meanwhile I think what we have now is good enough to beat enough teams outside the top 8 now to prevent us getting cut adrift

[Alan Young]

No concerns over losing at Newcastle.

My main issue is that I can’t see us beating any teams in the top half at present. We’re trying to match up against teams with better players and getting found out.

Dycheball was becoming tiresome but at least the clash of styles always gave us a chance of causing the odd upset here and there. Granted that wained as time went on and player quality diminished.

Ultimately that puts a lot of pressure on us beating the teams around us (twice) if we’re to get enough points to survive and why Luton almost becomes a must win game so early

[boatshed bill]

I don’t expect us to get any points from the top ten. If we don’t get many points from the bottom ten then we will go down. Playing players that aren’t good enough will not do us much good in the long run.

So do we have any better players?

[Longsidejono]

Maybe a unpopular opinion but Cullen is not strong enough for the prem, unbelievable last year but not getting a hold of the ball this year

Berge playing in the defensive midfield role so much more presence

Trafford
Roberts Al dakhil Beyer Taylor
Berge
Ramsey Tresor

Zaroury zeki or foster koleosho

Ramsey and tresor more intricate players not wingers stop wasting subs on playing them there tresor is not as exciting as benson coming of the bench on the wing

Utilise benson brunn Larsen oderbert for impact

[Rileybobs]

I think everything has to be put in context. We are a side in the early stages of PL development and have been challenged with an exceptionally tough early fixture list.
So while your points would normally apply I think we all need to be patient and realise that Kompany is instilling a method of playing that will pay off for us.
I believe that will happen sooner rather than later and that what you are asking for has a much better chance of happening in the second half of the season.
Meanwhile I think what we have now is good enough to beat enough teams outside the top 8 now to prevent us getting cut adrift

Fair points, and I think we’re only a couple of points below par at this stage. The Man Utd game was the missed opportunity so far, and of course Forest where we were denied by a poor refereeing decision.

[It Is What It Is]

Losing what made us soooo good last season...possession, patience, possession, patience, possession ...seems to have gone back to hoof ball when under pressure. If we have the ball... they can't score. Simple. Need to get back to VKs basics.

[Jamesy]

Losing what made us soooo good last season...possession, patience, possession, patience, possession ...seems to have gone back to hoof ball when under pressure. If we have the ball... they can't score. Simple. Need to get back to VKs basics.

Yes but in this division we are not allowed possession and patience. We can’t keep the ball as well against better teams with better players. Don’t forget that once we settled last season, average Championship teams were scared of us, and on the whole we were better than them hence more possession.
Having said that, all is not lost just yet. We should have beaten Forest but for another inept VAR decision. 4 points from next two games is definitely achievable.

[ClaretTony]

As much as I disagree with your original post, and said so.... Personal abuse such as that is unacceptable, but goes unpunished far too often on here, which is why it continues

Sorry but it doesn’t go unpunished. Some that I’ve seen and removed today has been shocking but I’ve said many times we need people to help and report it and not respond to it.

[Swizzlestick]

Losing what made us soooo good last season...possession, patience, possession, patience, possession ...seems to have gone back to hoof ball when under pressure. If we have the ball... they can't score. Simple. Need to get back to VKs basics.

I thought we looked more like our old selves against United, in this sense, just missing that final third ruthlessness, which of course United had. Newcastle very adept at overpowering teams and snuffing them out as we saw last week, plus I think that's five clean sheets in a row for them. I'm keeping the faith.

[ClaretLoup]

I thought we looked more like our old selves against United, in this sense, just missing that final third ruthlessness, which of course United had. Newcastle very adept at overpowering teams and snuffing them out as we saw last week, plus I think that's five clean sheets in a row for them. I'm keeping the faith.

We looked fine against both teams mentioned above until, against the run of play on both occasions, the opposition scored. Subsequently, passes went astray etc and we were unable to build any forward momentum against superior well organised teams.

[Jamesy]

We looked fine against both teams mentioned above until, against the run of play on both occasions, the opposition scored. Subsequently, passes went astray etc and we were unable to build any forward momentum against superior well organised teams.

Fair point.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

So do we have any better players?

Nope , if we don’t try to Strengthen the centre mid in Jan we are doomed . We are looking at a miracle to improve that area but if Brighton can sign caceido for 4.5m it’s all down to the scouts to pull a rabbit out of a hat.

I hope we actually try to sign someone better than Brownhill.

If we buy yet another winger then we’ll all know we’re going down.

[Jamesy]

Nope , if we don’t try to Strengthen the centre mid in Jan we are doomed . We are looking at a miracle to improve that area but if Brighton can sign caceido for 4.5m it’s all down to the scouts to pull a rally out of a hat.

If we buy yet another winger then we’ll all know we’re going down.

Brighton had an excellent team of scouts and they found many gems. I believe the main talent scout at Brighton has now been poached by today’s opponents Newcastle.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Brighton had an excellent team of scouts and they found many gems. I believe the main talent scout at Brighton has now been poached by today’s opponents Newcastle.

Let’s hope they aren’t looking for the wrong players for January. We might be able to put out a full team of wingers soon.

Newcastle are like a less annoying version of Man City but there is time yet

[Carwin261]

My original post wasn’t posted to cause controversy however watching The Clarets for over 65 yrs and seen the highs and the lows too many times to count I have along with tens of thousand of other fans loved the last 16 mths watching our brave new Clarets steamrolling everyone before them ,I expected it to be a really tough season and unfortunately due to the horrendous set of fixtures we’ve had to endure the chickens have come home to roost ,it’s nobodies fault but I would have thought with the experience VK and Craig Bellamy have they would have realised we’d need to become a tougher side to beat ,looking back I suppose inept and spineless was a bit harsh but for 70% have the game today I thought we were chasing shadows ,and personally I thought we weren’t even chasing ,however as long as I live and breath I’ll be screaming for the Clarets we’ve had a lot of darker days than this ( Teasdale out ,Bob Lord out ,Mullen out Laws out) I’m sure everyone is behind AP,VK et al let’s all see where we are after the next ten games which will give a true representation of whether we’re punching above our weight or not.

[Jamesy]

My original post wasn’t posted to cause controversy however watching The Clarets for over 65 yrs and seen the highs and the lows too many times to count I have along with tens of thousand of other fans loved the last 16 mths watching our brave new Clarets steamrolling everyone before them ,I expected it to be a really tough season and unfortunately due to the horrendous set of fixtures we’ve had to endure the chickens have come home to roost ,it’s nobodies fault but I would have thought with the experience VK and Craig Bellamy have they would have realised we’d need to become a tougher side to beat ,looking back I suppose inept and spineless was a bit harsh but for 70% have the game today I thought we were chasing shadows ,and personally I thought we weren’t even chasing ,however as long as I live and breath I’ll be screaming for the Clarets we’ve had a lot of darker days than this ( Teasdale out ,Bob Lord out ,Mullen out Laws out) I’m sure everyone is behind AP,VK et al let’s all see where we are after the next ten games which will give a true representation of whether we’re punching above our weight or not.

To be fair to you, I think the OP was a knee jerk reaction? It’s not always easy but best to just calm down and reflect after a defeat, prior to analysing what went wrong. UTC.

[Clive 1960]

Got to get a settled team on the pitch, by now Vincent should have a good idea who plays chopping and changing won't help the players. Big test comes next week against Luton lose against them we could be in for a long season trying to stop up which i still feel we can if we get a settled team.

[taio]

My original post wasn’t posted to cause controversy however watching The Clarets for over 65 yrs and seen the highs and the lows too many times to count I have along with tens of thousand of other fans loved the last 16 mths watching our brave new Clarets steamrolling everyone before them ,I expected it to be a really tough season and unfortunately due to the horrendous set of fixtures we’ve had to endure the chickens have come home to roost ,it’s nobodies fault but I would have thought with the experience VK and Craig Bellamy have they would have realised we’d need to become a tougher side to beat ,looking back I suppose inept and spineless was a bit harsh but for 70% have the game today I thought we were chasing shadows ,and personally I thought we weren’t even chasing ,however as long as I live and breath I’ll be screaming for the Clarets we’ve had a lot of darker days than this ( Teasdale out ,Bob Lord out ,Mullen out Laws out) I’m sure everyone is behind AP,VK et al let’s all see where we are after the next ten games which will give a true representation of whether we’re punching above our weight or not.

I recommend the use of full stops.

[Burnley87]

Goals change games

Amdouni has had three brilliant opportunities to give us the lead in the last two games and not taken them. That’s the difference at this level. The level of quality means if you aren’t taking your chances you are vulnerable to a world class strike at this level.

We were second best mainly in the midfield. The issue with youth and inexperience is we make massive mistakes in games and that’s costs you

[taio]

Goals change games

Amdouni has had three brilliant opportunities to give us the lead in the last two games and not taken them. That’s the difference at this level. The level of quality means if you aren’t taking your chances you are vulnerable to a world class strike at this level.

We were second best mainly in the midfield. The issue with youth and inexperience is we make massive mistakes in games and that’s costs you

It wasn't mainly in midfield - it was everywhere.Newcastle are just a better side. And to add to that Howe's tactics were impressive. We couldn't handle their pressing.

[burnleymik]

A few problems I see:

In every game we have created some brilliant chances, the problem is we aren't taking them as we need to at this level.

Sloppiness when being pressed. Some of our simple passing has been poor, especially in the midfield area and defence. We have created so many of our own problems. I do think this will improve as players play with each other more and VK works on it.

When being pressed high we have no outlet for the long balls. Opponents are capitalising on this and Newcastle did this especially well yesterday.

I still think we are going to keep improving, but this has been a baptism of fire for all concerned and maybe a good thing as it will focus minds, especially coming off the back of so much success last season.

I don't care if we don't survive this season, VK is building something for the long term here and we need to be patient and support these young lads, they are going to need the fans behind them.

[Jimmymaccer]

I think the team had made their mind up on the coach to the ground ,VK’s seems great at bringing subs on but doesn’t seem to react to what the other manager does Koleosho started really brightly ,but Howe but 2 men on him and nullified his threat ,so we should have had a spare man somewhere but we didn’t react .

Didn’t he have 3 on him at one stage?!

[Jakubclaret]

I recommend the use of full stops.

Why?

[taio]

Why?

To make it easier to read.

[Dark Cloud]

We had a great early chance yesterday and didn't take it and that stuff makes all the difference, and that's especially true in the PL.

[Spijed]

I don't care if we don't survive this season, VK is building something for the long term here and we need to be patient and support these young lads, they are going to need the fans behind them.

The issue with that sentiment is that some think that if we get relegated we are guaranteed to make an automatic return to the Prem.

Whilst it's highly probable, nothing is guaranteed in football and to think we have 100% chance of going straight back up is a bit daft.

[ksrclaret]

The issue with that sentiment is that some think that if we get relegated we are guaranteed to make an automatic return to the Prem.

Whilst it's highly probable, nothing is guaranteed in football and to think we have 100% chance of going straight back up is a bit daft.

Spot on Spijed.

I’m shocked at how many posts I’ve read recently almost taking another instant promotion for granted if we drop this season.

There are absolutely no guarantees as you say.

[Carwin261]

To make it easier to read.

My grammar is deteriorating as I was recently slagged off for using too many commas ,now I don’t my a—-e from my elbow.

[andyh]

On the summer recruiting i think we were unlucky in that there were players who turned us down that would have strengthened where we are weak. We did buy a shedload of wingers but every one of them looks like they have something about them and we are very likely to turn a profit on them. If we can get 12 points from the next 12 games we can hopefully strengthen the spine a little and we should make it to mid 30s points…. And this year that may be enough.

[Jakubclaret]

My grammar is deteriorating as I was recently slagged off for using too many commas ,now I don’t my a—-e from my elbow.

I don't have any problems reading what you post it's not a problem for me to adapt to how people wish to compose messages/text.