I still believe

[Newcastleclaret93]

You can't be this dumb

I just have no idea what the hell you are on about

[CoolClaret]

No idea what you’re on about for your last paragraph in all honesty. - clearly

Well done in making absolutely 0 points backed by anything substantial, just random, subjective assertions

[Vegas Claret]

Well done in making absolutely 0 points backed by anything, just random assertions.

I've made every point and they are crystal crystal clear
There was a reason Taylor wasn't picked - do your research
There was a reason Brownhill wasn't picked - do your research
There is a reason our team currently struggles to compete with the top teams that massively outspend us to add to their squads that have been together for seasons

It's really not difficult to see what's going on. The warning signs were there last season when Saints did the whole young inexperienced thing in the PL, if you chose to ignore that and didn't see the comparable risk for us then there's nothing any of us will say that will help you grasp it.

[NewClaret]

This is the most competitive league on the planet. Every team is supposed to compete with every team.

We have spent over 100m this summer (top ten spend in world football I believe). If we can’t compete against the teams towards the top end of the table after spending that not sure we ever will.

You miss a crucial fact out here - all that was spent on kids. Kids with lots of potential, but barely a game at professional level amongst them - Trafford, Koleosho, Ramsey, Amdouni, etc, etc - and certainly not in the “most competitive league in the world” as you say.

You simply cannot compare that spend to if it had been spent on 4 or 5 experienced players. You can argue it should’ve been, only time will tell.

My perspective is we’ve bought some real talent but that there’s a lot of work to do to realise their potential that can only be realised by playing games and gaining experience.

In the meantime we’ll be miles and miles off the top 8 teams. I mean we have a GK who was a teen a few months ago & spent last season in league one, as an example. And a winger that hadn’t played outside a B team. I think we’d both agree they look huge talents though.

I think we’ll be okay against the bottom ten and towards the end of the season more competitive against the bigger clubs. I think we’ll grow. We did Bournemouth 4-2 last year, for example. My only concern is whether the rhythm of getting well beaten inbetween will damage our confidence so significantly we turn up to the winnable games low on confidence.

[Big Vinny K]

The next 5 fixtures are absolutely crucial, starting with Luton.. we simply cannot lose.

Of course we can lose…..and there is a good chance we will.

Our season is not defined by a result at the beginning of October whether we win, lose or draw.

[CoolClaret]

I've made every point and they are crystal crystal clear
There was a reason Taylor wasn't picked - do your research
There was a reason Brownhill wasn't picked - do your research
There is a reason our team currently struggles to compete with the top teams that massively outspend us to add to their squads that have been together for seasons

It's really not difficult to see what's going on. The warning signs were there last season when Saints did the whole young inexperienced thing in the PL, if you chose to ignore that and didn't see the comparable risk for us then there's nothing any of us will say that will help you grasp it.

Aren’t you making my point here?

I don’t understand why we’ve decided to spend relatively big on so many young wingers/attacking midfielders/goalkeeper, for a lot of them no better than some of our starters from last season, then started this season with the new signings over a lot of the players that got us promoted last year in the hope that they’ll eventually gel and improve then wondering why we look totally disjointed?

I don’t think in a pivotal season we can afford to experiment and throw games away, absolutely no game in this league is a given and we should be able to ruffle a few feathers and make it difficult for teams to come to the turf - no matter the quality of them.

The fact that we’re 6 games in and no one really has a clue what our best team is says it all imo.

I think we have metaphorically tried to run before we can walk - see the attempted Kortrijk acquisition for more confirmation into that belief.

My overriding point is that I simply don’t agree with the view that our performances are getting better - we’re making the same mistakes game in game out and keep making it too easy for the opposing team.

It simply has to change or we will be relegated.

[JarrowClaret]

Some quite odd comments on here after only 6 games I didn’t expect many more points than what we have currently once the Luton game was called off. Parts of the performances have been okay at times I was disappointed in the Villa and Spurs performance but had thought we would get only 1 point in them games anyway so not much damage. Forest we were excellent and deserved much more and Utd we deserved a point as well so it isn’t all doom and gloom YET. There has been gradual improvement in performances if not results clearly we need to start picking up points though. Bournemouth and Forest were written off last season much later than where we are now they are still
In our division. I think we will be fine, the next 5 games will tell us a lot though, if by the end we are still struggling with only 2 or 3 points more then I would start to get concerned as well.

[Jakubclaret]

We didn’t beat them because they didn’t roll over and make it easy for us? The exact thing that I’m wanting us to do right now?

No idea what you’re on about for your last paragraph in all honesty.

The simple fact of the matter is we have been heavily thumped in all but one game and performances simply have to improve otherwise we will be relegated (that’s fine, I’m not normally arsed) BUT we have spent an awful lot of money and speculated on young players hoping that we can develop them and turn them into prized assets…

That’s good and all but it won’t happen if we continue to perform poorly.

Even if we do relegated our standout performers won't go unnoticed by the other clubs the vultures will still circle for the 1s that are prem quality, it just means we won't be developing them for as long as we'd like & the price will be reduced.

[CoolClaret]

Of course we can lose…..and there is a good chance we will.

Our season is not defined by a result at the beginning of October whether we win, lose or draw.

Then what the hell will define our season?

Being rock bottom of the league with 1 point after 7 games and a minimum possible goal difference of -12 would be a disastrous start… not to mention that we’d also be 6 points behind Luton. Would you have taken that after securing promotion last season?

We finished 21 points infront of Luton last season, for reference.

[Spijed]

Here are the comparable tables for the last five seasons when we were in the Prem and where we acquired the points.

We've got to ensure we do take a few points off the top sides, otherwise we'll end up like Norwich.

[Big Vinny K]

Then what the hell will define our season?

Being rock bottom of the league with 1 point after 7 games and a minimum possible goal difference of -12 would be a disastrous start… not to mention that we’d also be 6 points behind Luton. Would you have taken that after securing promotion last season?

We finished 21 points infront of Luton last season, for reference.

“For reference”…..last season is now completely irrelevant.

Not sure if you are being deliberately stupid but one game versus Luton in early October does not define where we finish at the end of the season. It’s really not that difficult to understand.

Are you saying we should get rid of VK if we lose on Tuesday ? Because if that game defines our season and we are in such a disastrous position then it sounds like you are.

[Vegas Claret]

Aren’t you making my point here?
no

I don’t understand why we’ve decided to spend relatively big on so many young wingers/attacking midfielders/goalkeeper, for a lot of them no better than some of our starters from last season, then started this season with the new signings over a lot of the players that got us promoted last year in the hope that they’ll eventually gel and improve then wondering why we look totally disjointed?
How do you know they are no better than our team from last year ? none of them played in the Championship

I don’t think in a pivotal season we can afford to experiment and throw games away, absolutely no game in this league is a given and we should be able to ruffle a few feathers and make it difficult for teams to come to the turf - no matter the quality of them.

I expect we will given time

The fact that we’re 6 games in and no one really has a clue what our best team is says it all imo.
Doesn't matter what we think out team best team is in all honesty, as an example I'd have Muric back in, only opinions that matter are those of VK and his staff, they know more about football than every person on this messageboard.

I think we have metaphorically tried to run before we can walk - see the attempted Kortrijk acquisition for more confirmation into that belief.
I probably agree with you there and I'm surprised we spent as much as we did BUT none of us know the level of backing we truly have

My overriding point is that I simply don’t agree with the view that our performances are getting better - we’re making the same mistakes game in game out and keep making it too easy for the opposing team.

Well, we've conceded 4 in 3 games, so the stats prove you are wrong

It simply has to change or we will be relegated.
Like we did under Dyche then bounced back stronger.

Don't forget - VK is still learning as he goes, he has never managed at this level and he is up against (for the most part) vastly experienced managers with vastly better players to pick from.

Long term looks very promising for us, don't get too disheartened with the now at the moment - we are still the 19th best team in the country and that isn't to be sniffed at.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Here are the comparable tables for the last five seasons when we were in the Prem and where we acquired the points.

We've got to ensure we do take a few points off the top sides, otherwise we'll end up like Norwich.

If anything them tables highlight that our failure to take any points from top 8 teams was one of the reasons we were relegated that season.

Shows how important it is to be competitive against the top teams

[Vegas Claret]

Even if we do relegated our standout performers won't go unnoticed by the other clubs the vultures will still circle for the 1s that are prem quality, it just means we won't be developing them for as long as we'd like & the price will be reduced.

I suspect the way Southampton conducted their business in the summer will be a lesson, we wont be giving players away

[Newcastleclaret93]

“For reference”…..last season is now completely irrelevant.

Not sure if you are being deliberately stupid but one game versus Luton in early October does not define where we finish at the end of the season. It’s really not that difficult to understand.

Are you saying we should get rid of VK if we lose on Tuesday ? Because if that game defines our season and we are in such a disastrous position then it sounds like you are.

I wouldn’t get rid of him yet, but I think loose to Luton and VK starts to come under pressure. It wouldn’t actually surprise me if he was favourite for the sack if we lose to Luton

[Spijed]

If anything them tables highlight that our failure to take any points from top 8 teams was one of the reasons we were relegated that season.

Shows how important it is to be competitive against the top teams

The table at the bottom are the Norwich results. We managed to take points off the top teams in every season, just not enough off the bottom sides in our relegation season.

[Vegas Claret]

I wouldn’t get rid of him yet, but I think loose to Luton and VK starts to come under pressure. It wouldn’t actually surprise me if he was favourite for the sack if we lose to Luton

wow, what a plumb

[Newcastleclaret93]

I suspect the way Southampton conducted their business in the summer will be a lesson, we wont be giving players away

Apart from Lavia did Southampton actually sell any other players they spent over 150m on the season before?

Nearly all there sales came from signings made in previous years (at least two years of prem football)

[Newcastleclaret93]

wow, what a plumb

It’s not an opinion it’s a fact.

VK will no doubt come under pressure, so far he’s had a fairly easy run of it with the media. Lose to Luton and he will no doubt be one of the favourites for the sack and the media will likely turn on him.

[CoolClaret]

“For reference”…..last season is now completely irrelevant.

Not sure if you are being deliberately stupid but one game versus Luton in early October does not define where we finish at the end of the season. It’s really not that difficult to understand.

Are you saying we should get rid of VK if we lose on Tuesday ? Because if that game defines our season and we are in such a disastrous position then it sounds like you are.

No - i’m not into sacking managers like that but if we have another poor performance then it will be a massive indictment and will again be in contradiction to the notion that the performances are improving.

[Vegas Claret]

Apart from Lavia did Southampton actually sell any other players they spent over 150m on the season before?

Nearly all there sales came from signings made in previous years (at least two years of prem football)

I'm not sure tbh mate, I just know they got the values they said they would and more as we found out with Tella

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

It’s not an opinion it’s a fact.

VK will no doubt come under pressure, so far he’s had a fairly easy run of it with the media. Lose to Luton and he will no doubt be one of the favourites for the sack and the media will likely turn on him.

‘The media will likely turn on him’. Who will be first the Burnley Express or Lancashire Telegraph? Exciting times.

[Vegas Claret]

It’s not an opinion it’s a fact.

VK will no doubt come under pressure, so far he’s had a fairly easy run of it with the media. Lose to Luton and he will no doubt be one of the favourites for the sack and the media will likely turn on him.

So he'll come under pressure from the media ? Who gives a flying **** what tin pot journos who write click bait stuff think ?.
We spent 9 years watching some absolute dogshit football under Dyche and very rarely (after the first 6 months) did the crowd turn on him until the last year and even then the majority seemed supportive or kept quiet. The football under Kompany is light years ahead, last season was the best I've seen for 40 years. I'd be staggered if anyone who supports the club would want him gone. I just hope Pace and Co have more ******** than some of our 'fans', time will tell.

[Jakubclaret]

I suspect the way Southampton conducted their business in the summer will be a lesson, we wont be giving players away

A variety of different circumstances will come into play which will dictate if we are in a position to play hardball, such as if players are content stopping & contracts, we don't know if players have relegation clauses attached, hopefully it won't come to that.

[Newcastleclaret93]

‘The media will likely turn on him’. Who will be first the Burnley Express or Lancashire Telegraph? Exciting times.

More than likely sky sports etc…

[Newcastleclaret93]

So he'll come under pressure from the media ? Who gives a flying **** what tin pot journos who write click bait stuff think ?.
We spent 9 years watching some absolute dogshit football under Dyche and very rarely (after the first 6 months) did the crowd turn on him until the last year and even then the majority seemed supportive or kept quiet. The football under Kompany is light years ahead, last season was the best I've seen for 40 years. I'd be staggered if anyone who supports the club would want him gone. I just hope Pace and Co have more ******** than some of our 'fans', time will tell.

Do you think Pace will stick with him if we get relegated?

[Vegas Claret]

A variety of different circumstances will come into play which will dictate if we are in a position to play hardball, such as if players are content stopping & contracts, we don't know if players have relegation clauses attached, hopefully it won't come to that.

our most sale-able assets bar Brownhill (I think) are all on decent length contracts, we'll be fine either way. Everyone agrees Benson and Zaroury are really decent players, we've already brought in 2 that could replace them for relative peanuts. Our scouting is next level now, zero concern from me about getting money in for players if we have to. If Newcastle want Koleosho it's 50 million to start, if Chelsea want him it's 70 million

[Vegas Claret]

Do you think Pace will stick with him if we get relegated?

100%, no question at all.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

More than likely sky sports etc…

Right will look out for it. I wonder which presenter it will be.

[CoolClaret]

Don't forget - VK is still learning as he goes, he has never managed at this level and he is up against (for the most part) vastly experienced managers with vastly better players to pick from.

Long term looks very promising for us, don't get too disheartened with the now at the moment - we are still the 19th best team in the country and that isn't to be sniffed at.

I can’t quote your quoted reply of mine - but no the underlying stats aren’t particularly showing that we’re improving (xG, chances created etc)

I’m not particularly into the ‘argument from authority’ that VK and his staff know more therefore any criticism and difference of opinion is therefore irrelevant.

When the criticism is factual in nature and the data/results support it then it’s absolutely fair game.

Yeah we did bounce back stronger under Dyche after being relegated but again - he never had a 100 mill + pot to throw at signings

We signed George Boyd and Michael Keane of any significant financial outlay and made Kightly a permanent signing.

Again I’m not fussed about going down, what I am fussed about is going down owing lots of money and if we do go down continuing with the sort of performances that we have been showing then I can’t see many teams coming in ready to pay big money for our players.

The next run of games are crucial.

We just cannot be hovering on 1-5 points after 10 games have been played.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Right will look out for it. I wonder which presenter it will be.

Bein sports started with the digs, I suspect sky sports will follow if we lose to Luton.

Let’s hope we don’t

[Vegas Claret]

More than likely sky sports etc…

Not sure I'll cope when TalkSport start calling him names. Come on, you can't possibly think a multi-million pound business would make a decision based on what the media say - after all, the media told us to keep Dyche.........and I'm still delighted we got rid

[Vegas Claret]

Bein sports started with the digs, I suspect sky sports will follow if we lose to Luton.

Let’s hope we don’t

Keys and Gray

**** me, you've got some balls to quote them

[Newcastleclaret93]

100%, no question at all.

I would be absolutely amazed if Pace sticks with him. I suspect what happened to Dyche will happen. If it looks like we are going down he will make the change.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Keys and Gray

**** me, you've got some balls to quote them

They did dig at him? Not sure what’s wrong about that

[RVclaret]

We just cannot be hovering on 1-5 points after 10 games have been played.

Forest had 6 points from the first 11 games last season with just one win. Two home defeats to the other two promoted teams Bournemouth and Fulham. They made a lot of summer changes too. They ended up staying up comfortably. Wolves became the first team bottom at Christmas(!!) to stay up (I may add very comfortably).

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

I for one shall never watch Bein sports again. They have ruddy crossed the line by having digs over Kompany. Sky sports better take note.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I for one shall never watch Bein sports again. They have ruddy crossed the line by having digs over Kompany. Sky sports better take note.

Very strange response.

[CoolClaret]

Forest had 6 points from the first 11 games last season with just one win. Two home defeats to the other two promoted teams Bournemouth and Fulham. They made a lot of summer changes too. They ended up staying up comfortably. Wolves became the first team bottom at Christmas(!!) to stay up (I may add very comfortably).

It’s an exception though not a norm.

They also scraped their way up through the playoffs with even more loan signings making up large parts of their squad and key players!

I’m not saying that we are absolutely guaranteed to go down either. I’m arguing that we’re making it even harder for ourselves (for reasons outlined in my previous posts) and that I don’t feel like our performances are improving - and I think they are two logical, rational viewpoints based upon our current situation and the data surrounding it.

[Jakubclaret]

I would be absolutely amazed if Pace sticks with him. I suspect what happened to Dyche will happen. If it looks like we are going down he will make the change.

I think he would do eventually if he had to as a last resort, but everything would be weighed up it won't be decision taken lightly with the cost of getting rid & bringing somebody else in when he's already invested heavily in him & seemingly given him free reign in recruitment.

[JarrowClaret]

I would be absolutely amazed if Pace sticks with him. I suspect what happened to Dyche will happen. If it looks like we are going down he will make the change.

What would be the point of sacking him unless this season is a total disaster ie record low points type of thing?

I think it became obvious in the documentary that Dyche was at least partly potted because of the style of Football well that was how I read when they decided against someone as he style of football was too similar. Everyone has said we are ahead of schedule so relegation wouldn’t/ shouldn’t be the end of the world. I reckon actually if we went down (we won’t) we will come back up with a record points total anyway. We have signed lots of young players who will only get better over this season and the following 1s chill out and enjoy the ride.

[boatshed bill]

I would be absolutely amazed if Pace sticks with him. I suspect what happened to Dyche will happen. If it looks like we are going down he will make the change.

I'd be absolutely amazed if he didn't stick with him.

[Jakubclaret]

I'd be absolutely amazed if he didn't stick with him.

I think things would have to be pretty severe for them to part ways. It's when it starts looking like it could become more financially unhealthy than maintaining the relationship you'd expect some sort of shift in change.

[boatshed bill]

I think things would have to be pretty severe for them to part ways. It's when it starts looking like it could become more financially unhealthy than maintaining the relationship you'd expect some sort of shift in change.

Vincent Kompany will ensure our PL survival, I am convinced of this.
Where would we find another manager who could guarantee to do better with the squad we've assembled?

[Jakubclaret]

Vincent Kompany will ensure our PL survival, I am convinced of this.
Where would we find another manager who could guarantee to do better with the squad we've assembled?

Right now it's a question that can't be answered because things aren't that bad but later if & I mean if, if things started looking really bleak perhaps a change would be looked at because later on in the season more managers will be available having already been sacked themselves right now nobody really has lost their jobs because it's too early on, if you are hiring a manager who is available you don't have any compensation payments only the settlement cost of paying the leaving manager.

[boatshed bill]

Right now it's a question that can't be answered because things aren't that bad but later if & I mean if, if things started looking really bleak perhaps a change would be looked at because later on in the season more managers will be available having already been sacked themselves right now nobody really has lost their jobs because it's too early on, if you are hiring a manager who is available you don't have any compensation payments only the settlement cost of paying the leaving manager.

Whilst agreeing with your take on availability I would be very surprised at both VK getting the bullet and any manager coming in doing better with what is a totally hand-picked (by AP and VK) squad.

[Jakubclaret]

Whilst agreeing with your take on availability I would be very surprised at both VK getting the bullet and any manager coming in doing better with what is a totally hand-picked (by AP and VK) squad.

I wouldn't completely rule it out that VKs job is safe under any circumstances but I think things would have to be severe for that course of action to be taken. Pace would roll the dice if another manager was available & things were looking really bad.

[Spindles]

If anything them tables highlight that our failure to take any points from top 8 teams was one of the reasons we were relegated that season.

Shows how important it is to be competitive against the top teams

I think you'll find its the oppposite - far more important to take points off the bottom half teams. When we were relegated we got 4 wins and 7 draws against 11 down.

[Vegas Claret]

They did dig at him? Not sure what’s wrong about that

they are the two biggest football dinosaurs in a pundit chair. Their opinions stopped being of use 15-20 years ago

[CryerBFC]

With you on the title, I can see the Brownhill Cullen Berge partnership getting better. I agree regarding Foster.

But to say we have two of the best CBs in the league, come off it. Maybe in 5 years, but not now. I could name at least 15/20 CBs head and shoulders above our 2 who started on Saturday. I’d argue we’ve got 2 better CBs that aren’t even playing atm in Ekdal and O’Shea.