Tactics

[Belgianclaret]

Our young manager made a mistake by playing Vitinho against Sterling, and by not addressing at half time.
Not helped either by poor Tresor in front of him.
One danger man given far too much space…

VK still has a lot of credit in the bag though and I doubt he’ll make this mistake again.

UTc

[Clive 1960]

Our young manager made a mistake by playing Vitinho against Sterling, and by not addressing at half time.
Not helped either by poor Tresor in front of him.
One danger man given far too much space…

VK still has a lot of credit in the bag though and I doubt he’ll make this mistake again.

UTc

I hope you're right because he's making big mistakes in this league and it's unforgiving, why after beating Luton make so many changes when international break is next up . I like Vincent but he's starting to worry me.

[ervi34]

What are our tactics going forward? Today we created 1 decent chance, simply not enough for a team who wants to be play attacking and leaks so many goals.

[Lord Beamish]

Kompany seems a little out of his depth at this level.

[Pickles]

Last season - when we started slowly - I was confident and optimistic it'd come good. Because it was clear we had the right sort of players and there was an indication of style, idea, tactics.

This season - so far - I've struggled to see what the plan is. Yes, the fixtures have been tough. But we don't seem set up or prepared to try and get something from these games. And I wasn't convinced even against Luton.

[BurnleyFC]

I’m not sure we can fix this with tactics.

We’re so naive and it’s still baffling how we approached the transfer window.

The personnel are all wrong.

[Foshiznik]

Don’t think the tactics have been wrong personally. It’s the personnel he’s picked to play it that either aren’t or worst case scenario can’t execute it

[SalisburyClaret]

He’s too focused on keeping all the young players happy.

We need experience alongside the youth

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

With Beyer and Ekdal to come back I would class both those as first choice moving forward and pray that keeps us up.

[Neil]

The tactics are the same as last season but unfortunately we're not good enough to execute them in the prem.
As for the OP, did you see Sterling destroy roberts for pace for the fourth goal? Would have made no difference who played at right back against Sterling today.
Kompany needs to understand we can't go toe to toe yet and if not give up on his philosophy, at least tweak it.

[DCWat]

The first half display was pretty positive, I thought.

Offensively, Vitinho had done well. A couple of lapses in concentration, including what was a scabby first and we are two one down.

The second half followed what is becoming a bit of a worrying trend. We became ragged, devoid of many ideas and the passing got worse and worse.

Kompany has suggested that solving the defensive issues is easier than creating / scoring. At the moment, I’d happily forgo a few goals in favour of some defensive stability and an extra point or two.

We have a hell of a lot of inexperience in the squad and we’re probably too reliant on those players.

The summer dealings, whilst exciting, didn’t look have addressed key areas and to date, I’ve seen nothing much to change that view.

Survival this season will probably depend upon not falling too far behind between now and January (we have a more favourable run coming up now) and a winter transfer window that addresses various shortcomings (full backs, midfield, striker and perhaps even a more commanding centre half).

[Vegas Claret]

Kompany seems a little out of his depth at this level.

it's his first season at this level as a manager, folks would do well to remember just like the players he is also enduring a steep learning curve with an incredibly young side

[KlyBfc]

We are abysmal.
The summer transfer policy, the players performances and the tactics.

I don’t care who we have played, we have conceded 3,3,5,1,4 in our home games. This side playing the way it is at home will NOT stay up, it’s pathetic.

[Carwin261]

It cost 3 goals indirectly today by trying to play out from the back ,he needs a more experienced keeper who knows when to play long,Foster wins more than his fair share of headed duels and even if he doesnt win at least the balls away from our goal,I loved it last year when Muric used to toy with the oppositions forwards but it’s like water torture watching the back 3 and Trafford trying to play from the back .

[Newcastleclaret93]

it's his first season at this level as a manager, folks would do well to remember just like the players he is also enduring a steep learning curve with an incredibly young side

All jokes aside we literally used to take the **** out of Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard for performances like this.

Let’s hope VK isn’t just another player that had a good career but isn’t a top level manager

[cockneyclaret]

We are abysmal.
The summer transfer policy, the players performances and the tactics.

I don’t care who we have played, we have conceded 3,3,5,1,4 in our home games. This side playing the way it is at home will NOT stay up, it’s pathetic.

Best you find another team to support or come back on here in a few months

[brexit]

Vk doesn't have tactics as such he relies on his players to make good decisons. Unfortuately there was no-one the pitch today who could complete a pass.

[CoolClaret]

Doesn’t know his best team (which you wouldn’t do with a ton of new players) and keeps tinkering.

Seriously strange business in the summer - just hope it doesn’t come back to bite us on the arse.

[Vegas Claret]

All jokes aside we literally used to take the **** out of Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard for performances like this.

Let’s hope VK isn’t just another player that had a good career but isn’t a top level manager

yep, that's the risk and the journey we are on though. I'd still rather have this than have a Chris Wilder type though. My fear (and I posted it on here before a ball was kicked) was that we don't have enough experience in the starting 11, we are less experienced than Southampton and that's a lesson we haven't learned from with our recruitment. I feel it was a mistake to not sign Townsend for example. Time will tell, but I'm 100% behind Kompany no matter what division we are in

[Newcastleclaret93]

yep, that's the risk and the journey we are on though. I'd still rather have this than have a Chris Wilder type though. My fear (and I posted it on here before a ball was kicked) was that we don't have enough experience in the starting 11, we are less experienced than Southampton and that's a lesson we haven't learned from with our recruitment. I feel it was a mistake to not sign Townsend for example. Time will tell, but I'm 100% behind Kompany no matter what division we are in

I don’t know, I’m really struggling with VK this season.

He just doesn’t know his best team (which leads me to think he recruited poorly) and his tactics have poor at best.

We are a better team than our performances are showing us. I am really starting to think he is not the level of manager the vast majority thought.

For example I have no doubt in my mind Dyche keeps this squad up and I’m not sure I can say the same about VK.

(Although looking at our rivals for relegation we might only need 32-33 points to stay up)

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

We look like a more clueless version of Norwich at the moment from minute 41, before that we were well on top.
The og absolutely killed our confidence , needs looking at that.

hopefully the injured players make us look a lot better and we get Cork back in the middle seeing as he has so much more experience than the rest. He might be old but at least he can pick a pass and not give the ball away.

Brownhill and Ramsey offering absolutely nothing in the middle. No point them playing but they get chosen time and time again. George Boyd’s with no output. Both can’t pick a pass or tackle.

[CoolClaret]

Last season - when we started slowly - I was confident and optimistic it'd come good. Because it was clear we had the right sort of players and there was an indication of style, idea, tactics.

This season - so far - I've struggled to see what the plan is. Yes, the fixtures have been tough. But we don't seem set up or prepared to try and get something from these games. And I wasn't convinced even against Luton.

Agreed.

It was also a transformative year last season which was well needed.

I’m not so sure why we have approached the season like we have.

I don’t buy this writing 10-15 games off because we’re bedding talent in.

Championship is different - 46 games is significantly more than the 38 of the PL.

16 goals shipped at home in 5 matches just isn’t good enough and isn’t sustainable.

[Vegas Claret]

I don’t know, I’m really struggling with VK this season.

He just doesn’t know his best team (which leads me to think he recruited poorly) and his tactics have poor at best.

We are a better team than our performances are showing us. I am really starting to think he is not the level of manager the vast majority thought.

For example I have no doubt in my mind Dyche keeps this squad up and I’m not sure I can say the same about VK.

(Although looking at our rivals for relegation we might only need 32-33 points to stay up)

First half we competed really really well with a 1 billion quid team and were unfortunate to go in at 1-1, second half was awful and there is no denying that. Dyche wouldn't keep this team up - don't forget we got smashed 5-1 by a crap Everton under Dyche. It happens at this level to teams like us. Forest spent loads more than we did last season and only just stayed up after having a terrible start. Keep the faith

[CoolClaret]

yep, that's the risk and the journey we are on though. I'd still rather have this than have a Chris Wilder type though. My fear (and I posted it on here before a ball was kicked) was that we don't have enough experience in the starting 11, we are less experienced than Southampton and that's a lesson we haven't learned from with our recruitment. I feel it was a mistake to not sign Townsend for example. Time will tell, but I'm 100% behind Kompany no matter what division we are in

It isn’t necessarily a binary choice between the two styles though. There’s a nice middle ground that Thomas Frank has found with Brentford.

I’m behind Kompany but think our recruitment and the fact we use his analytics company is a bit strange.

The players he brought in last year for the most part he had knowledge of because he either played with/against or managed against for a few seasons.

[Vegas Claret]

It isn’t necessarily a binary choice between the two styles though. There’s a nice middle ground that Thomas Frank has found with Brentford.

I’m behind Kompany but think our recruitment and the fact we use his analytics company is a bit strange.

The players he brought in last year for the most part he had knowledge of because he either played with/against or managed against for a few seasons.

you mean like Tresor, Delcroix, Larsen, Berge and Redmond ?

[Newcastleclaret93]

First half we competed really really well with a 1 billion quid team and were unfortunate to go in at 1-1, second half was awful and there is no denying that. Dyche wouldn't keep this team up - don't forget we got smashed 5-1 by a crap Everton under Dyche. It happens at this level to teams like us. Forest spent loads more than we did last season and only just stayed up after having a terrible start. Keep the faith

The 1 billion pound comment is just strange.

Chelsea have been crap for ages and today we made them look excellent.

I just can’t see it with VK, the tactics are just all over the place. Without being too critical (as I do appreciate he is going) I just don’t even understand what we are supposed to be?

Are we a possession based team? Counter attacking?

[Vegas Claret]

The 1 billion pound comment is just strange.

no, it's accurate

[Newcastleclaret93]

no, it's accurate

It’s accurate but only being used to deter from the bad performance.

Chelsea are not a top team, they obliterated us today

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

When we made the 3 subs I’m not sure anyone in the ground could say what formation we were attempting to play.

[spt_claret]

With Beyer and Ekdal to come back I would class both those as first choice moving forward and pray that keeps us up.

They should but Ekdal never has been for some reason - his 9 games last season were while Bellis was out. MOTM debut, never a less than good game but straight back out once Bellis was fit and only in the cup this season, after a good preseason.
I still back Kompany but like any manager he's not flawless or infallible, and his team selection is baffling at times, he also definitely seems to have certain favourites/unfavoured.

[RVclaret]

The 1 billion pound comment is just strange.

Chelsea have been crap for ages and today we made them look excellent.

I just can’t see it with VK, the tactics are just all over the place. Without being too critical (as I do appreciate he is going) I just don’t even understand what we are supposed to be?

Are we a possession based team? Counter attacking?

Adaptable is what we are meant to be. Today was defending deeper and playing more on the counter (see our goal and Chelsea having 70% possession first half without really threatening). Two awful errors and our heads seem to go/plan out the window.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Adaptable is what we are meant to be. Today was defending deeper and playing more on the counter (see our goal and Chelsea having 70% possession first half without really threatening). Two awful errors and our heads seem to go/plan out the window.

I don’t think adaptable is a style RV.

At this level you can’t be a Jack of all trades.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

They should but Ekdal never has been for some reason - his 9 games last season were while Bellis was out. MOTM debut, never a less than good game but straight back out once Bellis was fit and only in the cup this season, after a good preseason.
I still back Kompany but like any manager he's not flawless or infallible, and his team selection is baffling at times, he also definitely seems to have certain favourites/unfavoured.

Weird init looks like Tony Adam’s to me the way he plays, dangerous from corners too.

Brownhill can’t even pass to his own player at this level but plays every week.

Managers just discriminate against some players usually to the detriment of the team it seems.

[Pickles]

Adaptable is what we are meant to be.

For a team in the Premier League, adaptable should be the bare minimum.

[Vegas Claret]

It’s accurate but only being used to deter from the bad performance.

Chelsea are not a top team, they obliterated us today

second half. We should have gone in at least 1 up at half time and you can't just forget the first half

No idea what happened second half though, it's was bizarre and for me our worst 45 of the season

[Owdsyker]

It might help if we picked our best team. Does anybody out there seriously think that Trafford is better than Muric?

[bumba]

Our young manager made a mistake by playing Vitinho against Sterling, and by not addressing at half time.
Not helped either by poor Tresor in front of him.
One danger man given far too much space…

VK still has a lot of credit in the bag though and I doubt he’ll make this mistake again.

UTc

You mean the same mistakes he keeps making in every single game?

[Carwin261]

I think VK needs to swallow his pride and restore Muric and also ditch the mantra of taking playing out from the back to the nth degree,last season teams were frightened of us but now they’re all over us like a rash ,employ a few of Sean Dyche’s tactics get the ball to Foster who showed again today that he’s good at holding the ball up.

[Claretmisterg]

The own goal visibly deflated us and Ekdal going off totally unbalanced us. Chelsea increased the press after going behind and quickly realised we were vulnerable to it. We’ve got a team of young skilful players, without doubt, but we’re lacking some real steel when required.

[Robbie_painter]

The own goal visibly deflated us and Ekdal going off totally unbalanced us. Chelsea increased the press after going behind and quickly realised we were vulnerable to it. We’ve got a team of young skilful players, without doubt, but we’re lacking some real steel when required.

Ekdal???

[CoolClaret]

you mean like Tresor, Delcroix, Larsen, Berge and Redmond ?

apologies meant to have written ‘played or managed against/ with extensively’.

No qualms with filling the squad with known and somewhat unfancied players for relatively small fees….

Though I think pretty much 50 mill on Traff, Ramsey, Odebert and O’Shea is right now bad business.

That’s not a slight on Odebert/Ramsey/Traffs ability or potential ability btw but given the context of the rest of the squad and other players that we had I just don’t understand it.

Definitely believed that we’ve tried to run before we’re even walking.

Anyway I don’t want to fear monger too much but it’s concerning - we have to compete more at home and stop rolling over.

No shock that Brunn Larsen once again did some good work when he came on the park. His decision making was miles above what we had seen since the goal.

[steve1264b]

Doesnt matter what tactics you deploy if you keep passing to the opposition in your own half.

I dont know how you do this but we must give the ball away in our half more than any other team.

[Rileybobs]

The main concern is that the performances are becoming more disjointed and less cohesive. I was really hoping that things would be starting to click by now. Having started to have a settled back 5, why with the forced absence of Beyer did we also drop Roberts? Why did we drop both wingers? The team is never going to gel with so much tinkering - and part of me is thinking that we’re looking to give minutes to as many players as possible - but if this is the case we’re throwing away games where picking up points is entirely feasible.

I think we’ve made a bit of a hash of the transfer window, I was always sceptical of those who were wetting their pants at all these unknown young talents - and admittedly we do have some ‘sexy footballers’. But we are starting games with 2 sub-standard full backs, have an inexperienced goalkeeper and centre backs, lots of very ‘samey’ wide players and just one realistic option at centre forward.

I’m chilled about going down, if indeed we do, but with the money invested in this squad we’re going to miss a massive opportunity. VK has presumably had a large say in the signings made this summer so he needs to find a way to get them playing as a team, because right now we look anything but.

[Vegas Claret]

apologies meant to have written ‘played or managed against/ with extensively’.

No qualms with filling the squad with known and somewhat unfancied players for relatively small fees….

Though I think pretty much 50 mill on Traff, Ramsey, Odebert and O’Shea is right now bad business.

That’s not a slight on Odebert/Ramsey/Traffs ability or potential ability btw but given the context of the rest of the squad and other players that we had I just don’t understand it.

Definitely believed that we’ve tried to run before we’re even walking.

Anyway I don’t want to fear monger too much but it’s concerning - we have to compete more at home and stop rolling over.

No shock that Brunn Larsen once again did some good work when he came on the park. His decision making was miles above what we had seen since the goal.

like I said to Newcastle earlier, I feared our lack of PL experienced signings would come back to haunt us just as it did with Southampton. It is a concern but i'm hanging my hopes on a similar slow start last season and our results against Forest and Luton so far this, at some point we will need to start taking the odd points off the bigger sides though. I expected a long tough season and one we would massively struggle in, none of what I've seen is a surprise (sadly)

edit: Yes, Larsen deserves to start, you see his experience in his decision making

[KlyBfc]

Best you find another team to support or come back on here in a few months

Weird take. Why would I go support another team. I’ve continued to follow Burnley from the depths of division 4 up the leagues and down and back up again. I continued to watch many abysmal side we have produced week in week out. My take on how pathetic we were today and the the majority of our home games has no impact on my following of the team. Please don’t judge me by your own standards, and if you think today or any other home game (first half utd aside) has been good enough then you are in denial or deluded.

[Robbie_painter]

For me once we go behind in a game I have very little faith in this group of players turning it around,It’s more or less game over.

[Vegas Claret]

apologies meant to have written ‘played or managed against/ with extensively’.

I'll add, the decision to not sign Andros Townsend was a huge mistake, he was exactly what we lack.

[spt_claret]

Adaptable is what we are meant to be. Today was defending deeper and playing more on the counter (see our goal and Chelsea having 70% possession first half without really threatening). Two awful errors and our heads seem to go/plan out the window.

The errors thing comes with a young team. They're inexperienced and mostly will be used to standing out at youth level and winning, rather than a relegation battle against a team of internationals. No wonder their heads go.

Adaptability I disagree on we aren't that adaptable. Most of our players have the same profile, we tweak rather than adapt or set up differently- and yes I acknowledge that pretty much the only manager ever who truly sets up with different tactics is Carlo Ancelotti, but even if you start one way you need B and C plans. We rarely had them under Dyche and even when we did employ them we rarely tried again- switching to 433 with Vydra/Jay/Cornet against Chelsea in his last season nearly won us the game and we never did it again. But Kompany is the same, look how long it took to put an actual leftback in instead of fixating on his player mould. We tend to swap like for like, the only players in truly different moulds to the standard XI for their position are Jay/Cork who are all but done, Taylor (who's now in by default) and JBG who's fought his way in repeatedly due to sheer versatility. We don't have a different mould of winger mostly, a different type of forward, we can't switch to a front 2 or big strong centre forward and looping high crosses in or fizz ones low because we don't have the widemen or forwards for those roles (although Larsen looks like he might have enough tools in his locker to mix it up,and Zaroury put those balls in for the first half of last season but is AWOL now and without a target man to aim for). It's why I'll forever maintain we should have retained Weghorst as a bench option because he is tangibly different.
And we didn't really adapt to hit on the break or counter today because we still repeatedly tried to play steadily through the lines and just kept losing the ball, our adaptation was a tweak to slightly increase pace but not approach which failed. If we'd done as you suggest I'd have expected Muric in purely for his proven ability to launch counter attacks as he did for Tella last season.
We've got a lot of rotation options but not a lot of approaches.

[Claretmisterg]

Ekdal???

Sorry Al-Dakhil.

I just hope at least 2 from Beyer, Ekdal and Al-Dakhil are fit and available for the Brentford game.

[Rileybobs]

I'll add, the decision to not sign Andros Townsend was a huge mistake, he was exactly what we lack.

I think the problems currently are far greater than one player who may have played 60 minutes per game at the most.