Dignity and respect…

[Middle-agedClaret]

Those are the qualities the Irish and Scottish team’s displayed in their Rugby World Cup crunch match tonight.
It was a “must win” game for the Scots. (spoiler alert - they lost).
It was a rugged, ferocious match, played with energy, commitment and determination.
And no-one feigned injury, argued with the ref, tried to cheat, or disrespected their opponent.(well - one bit of petulance from a Scottish player excepted)
I do love football.
But I often think the game, and its players, could learn a lot from rugby.
COYBIG
and UTC.

[DCWat]

Those are the qualities the Irish and Scottish team’s displayed in their Rugby World Cup crunch match tonight.
It was a “must win” game for the Scots. (spoiler alert - they lost).
It was a rugged, ferocious match, played with energy, commitment and determination.
And no-one feigned injury, argued with the ref, tried to cheat, or disrespected their opponent.(well - one bit of petulance from a Scottish player excepted)
I do love football.
But I often think the game, and its players, could learn a lot from rugby.
COYBIG
and UTC.

I’ve never got rugby, never liked either of the codes as a sporting spectacle. From the little that I’ve seen / had been forced upon me, I couldn’t agree more though - football can be, and often is, something of an embarrassment.

The behaviours that we see week in week out, in the “Premier” League, are a long, long way from demonstrating being a role model to the future generations.

[Rowls]

Feel exactly the same as DCWat.

[tarkys_ears]

Yeah whatever

File along with the German trains are cheap and always on time myth

[ChrisG]

Yeah whatever

File along with the German trains are cheap and always on time myth

German trains are frequently late, but bloody hell they are incomparably cheaper.

[Shaggy]

Football is as corrupt as the current POTUS set up and with the money on offer the players cheat. They are told
To cheat to gain an advantage. The governing bodies in football allow all this to happen because they are also corrupt and it’s in their interests to keep the big teams at the top.

I think if they allowed more physical play it would end all the diving and cheating and whinging. Rugby is a purer sport, you could add the likes of Ice hockey into that list too. The full contact play and when someone steps over the line and the ref calls it there’s no drama. Everyone has respect and just gets on with it. Football players are just spoilt brats

[ralph8]

Is it only me who fines a users name offensive- Tarkys Ears.
I was brought up in the 60s so don't come back with all the usual.

[timshorts]

Rugby var got two decisions "wrong" yesterday when it wasn't clear that the match official had got it wrong in play. Zammo try that wasn't and a line call where an Irish foot touched the white line.
Generally, though, their system works a lot better than ours and it is about time that those in charge of ours took some notice and started to behave like grown-ups when administering it. I get the feeling that the reason that they won't want to get miked up is less about the bad language - which is constant but probably would be less so if everybody heard it - and more about the ineptitude.

[Blyclaret]

Rugby. A thugs game played by gentlemen.
Soccer. A gentleman’s game played by thugs.

[dougcollins]

Apart from the little punch up. Not much respect when the Irish player was tipped over the advertising hoarding.

[scamander]

Played it only for a year when I couldn't play football and joined a vets team. It's easier to vent frustrations and the like in rugby as it's physical. However, as for the whining/moaning etc the game is on a different level.

One game was against a local rival, I was on the wing and a kick was put through, just me and the line. Easy stuff. Except the whistle goes, and it's a scrum to us. Turned out that the ref hadn't played the advantage, one which would have seen me score a try. In short it was the ref's error. I pipe up and swear, didn't criticise the ref but made my annoyance clear.

Our captain wandered over to me and said he'll give me the benefit of the doubt as I was a footballer but anything like that again would mean I wouldn't be welcome playing for them again.

Comparing VAR in rugby isn't that easy as often it's used when the ball is dead. As football fans we are in the bubble, though it's absurd how players who often spend most of the game either cheating or trying to deceive/influence the ref have toddler meltdowns when the ref isn't 'fair' to them.

Sky and the lot love to chum the waters when it comes to controversy, they could do the opposite and provide clarity. They could also reinforce the notion that if a ref doesn't give a decision it may not be because they don't agree - it could be because the ref didn't see it.

[LeadBelly]

Apart from the little punch up. Not much respect when the Irish player was tipped over the advertising hoarding.

Yes there was a big "set to" at one stage following a trip (after the whistle had gone) by a Scot, a retaliatory neck grab by Sexton. The general fracas involved a Scot grappling an Irishman over the surround wall. Of course, it all settled down with just a yellow card shown

I'm a (both-codes) rugby fan though & do agree that there are some things that footy could pick up from rugby. Respect for the ref being the main one - I really hate to see groups of footy players from both sides surrounding & intimidating the ref - all gobbing off and arm waving/finger wagging etc.

[JohnMac]

Rugby Referee's manage the game better because they know how it works, direct the play to a large extent and dictate the laws as it progresses.

Football Referee's spend most of the time trying to keep up with what is going on especially when play is switched from one side to the other and at speed. They also have to contend with the constant and often blatant cheating.

[Devils_Advocate]

There isnt the money and more importantly their isnt the obsessive passion in the fans like football which makes it a lot more easy for things to be accepted. You can have ago at the footy players about dignity and respect but show me a rugby teams fans forum where they are as biased and pathetic as people on here and there you have your answer.

Rightly or wrongly football just matters more and before people berate the players, the manager, the officials, the pundits have a look a bit closer to home as we are just as bad if not worse than any of the groups ive just mentioned.

To give just one example there's a poster on here agreeing with the OP who spent half a day arguing that a referee was corrupt cos he abandoned a game due to snow.

[quoonbeatz]

The biggest problem with rugby is that it's not football.

[Winstonswhite]

There isnt the money and more importantly their isnt the obsessive passion in the fans like football which makes it a lot more easy for things to be accepted. You can have ago at the footy players about dignity and respect but show me a rugby teams fans forum where they are as biased and pathetic as people on here and there you have your answer.

Rightly or wrongly football just matters more and before people berate the players, the manager, the officials, the pundits have a look a bit closer to home as we are just as bad if not worse than any of the groups ive just mentioned.

To give just one example there's a poster on here agreeing with the OP who spent half a day arguing that a referee was corrupt cos he abandoned a game due to snow.

There’s plenty of internet forums where rugby fans slag off and call the ref corrupt with big club bias blah blah blah, so your argument falls down at the first hurdle.

[Devils_Advocate]

There’s plenty of internet forums where rugby fans slag off and call the ref corrupt with big club bias blah blah blah, so your argument falls down at the first hurdle.

Rubbish, nothing like to the extent of football and you wont have a Sky Sports program dedicated to analysing and explaining every contentious decision a rugby ref made.

[tarkys_ears]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... eille.html

[Bullabill]

It was a “must win” game for the Scots. (spoiler alert - they lost).

How is that a spoiler "alert"? It's just a bloody spoiler!

[GetIntoEm]

Love it when rugby gets thrown about as a "gentlemens sport", there was more trouble at games this weekend both on and off the pitch than youd get at a normal Premier League game

[claretonthecoast1882]

Rugby players and supporters are also shown more respect by officials than in football, you have officials not afraid to explain their decisions to everyone. It works both ways.

[Rowls]

To give just one example there's a poster on here agreeing with the OP who spent half a day arguing that a referee was corrupt cos he abandoned a game due to snow.

My argument was that the game could (should) have gone ahead because it was clear and sunny by KO time.

I postulated he’d been leant on by Spurs who had several players missing but the simple point was, the game should have gone ahead because the weather was fine.

It’s amazing how long you and a few others are able to half-remember things I said and misrepresent them.

If people cannot see a clear culture difference between football and rugby then that’s up to them. “It matters more” doesn’t make sense to me. Does anyone imagine England’s rugby players care any less about winning than England’s football players? There’s a big disparity in the wages after all.

You’re much better when you remember you’re a novelty account and don’t try to be “serious”. You seem to have forgotten that lately DA.

Perhaps you should start a second account with a real name for these apparently sincere posts?

[Rowls]

Love it when rugby gets thrown about as a "gentlemens sport", there was more trouble at games this weekend both on and off the pitch than youd get at a normal Premier League game

Their laddish drinking culture is worse than football. They’re liable to start brawls and fights.

But they don’t normally back-chat referees and there isn’t constant dissent and cheating when playing the game.

Rugby culture is far from perfect but in terms of accepting the referees decision, curtailing dissent and playing the game in the right spirit they are light years ahead of football.

Their referees accordingly have the confidence to go out and referee the game in a reciprocal manner of openness and honesty.

Football referees (especially at the highest level) are often cowed and frightened from the off. They’re constantly trying to referee “by consent” like a supply teacher attempting to negotiate with an unruly classroom.

There’s a reason football referee’s microphones aren’t broadcast live like in rugby.

[Hipper]

I saw the Bracknell -Dagenham FA Cup match on BBC iPlayer. It wasn't a particularly good match but there was little feigning of injuries, the ref was very good, the game flowed well. Basically it was well fought by both sides. It was played on an artificial pitch but you wouldn't have noticed.

I also saw the Wolves-Liverpool match on TV which was also played in a good spirit and was a superb match.

It can be done. It's just that some particular teams don't want to (Wolves used to be like that but Gary O'Neil seems to have changed things). In the end it's down to the manager. He is responsible and they should be taken to task over it.

[AfloatinClaret]

...I really hate to see groups of footy players from both sides surrounding & intimidating the ref - all gobbing off and arm waving/finger wagging etc.

The laws of rugby state that only the team captains may speak to the referee; plus of course there's the rule which allows a referee to advance a penalty by ten yards (I guess metres nowadays) should the penalised team argue/show dissent to that decision - that's one I'd love to see introduced to Association football too.

[Rowls]

It can be done. It's just that some particular teams don't want to (Wolves used to be like that but Gary O'Neil seems to have changed things). In the end it's down to the manager. He is responsible and they should be taken to task over it.

Good post Hipper. It can be done.

I find it's more likely to be played in the correct spirit the further you go down the leagues. The professionals at the very top seem to be well drilled when it comes to intimidating referees by surrounding them, just as they are superbly well trained at "going down" when they "feel contact" as well as outright diving.

The problem I have with the PL is that the referees are seemingly beholden to the players. If the players don't want to play in the right spirit then the referees don't seem to have the right mentality, authority or characer to challenge that.

[Big Vinny K]

The laws of rugby state that only the team captains may speak to the referee; plus of course there's the rule which allows a referee to advance a penalty by ten yards (I guess metres nowadays) should the penalised team argue/show dissent to that decision - that's one I'd love to see introduced to Association football too.

And this happens at all levels of rugby so that’s it’s very much a cultural thing. Went to watch clitheroe rugby on Saturday and penalty was given for dissent.

It seems the opposite in all levels of football. Again it’s cultural for players to treat the referee and officials like sh-it and the common persona of most officials is that they are like wet lettuces. You don’t think that about rugby officials.

How about we swap the officials for one weekend between rugby and football. We can then watch Bruno Fernandes be bollocked by a referee and marched off the pitch.
In the rugby games the referees even though they’d probably make horrendous mistakes would still be treated with respect !!

[Rowls]

How about we swap the officials for one weekend between rugby and football. We can then watch Bruno Fernandes be bollocked by a referee and marched off the pitch.
In the rugby games the referees even though they’d probably make horrendous mistakes would still be treated with respect !!

I imagine that there would be ridiculous levels of bookings and reds for second yellows.

Football teams take it in turn to dissent at the referee to share these bookings around.

The pundits would bemoan the referee and claim he had "lost control" by implementing bookings for dissent.

This is something the referees need to do in order to regain proper control of football.

[Big Vinny K]

I imagine that there would be ridiculous levels of bookings and reds for second yellows.

Football teams take it in turn to dissent at the referee to share these bookings around.

The pundits would bemoan the referee and claim he had "lost control" by implementing bookings for dissent.

This is something the referees need to do in order to regain proper control of football.

Aye no doubt that’s correct.
Unfortunately the fact that it’s deep rooted and cultural in the respective sports means it’s very unlikely that it’s going to change in football. The only people in football it seems like who actually want the change are the fans and it’s a few decades since their opinion counted for much.

Even those pundits like Keane, Shearer, Souness who often say the game has gone soft if you see any old footage of any of these players yes they weren’t play acting or diving but all of them were in the face of referees and officials all the time !!

It’s endemic. As I get older i am beginning to enjoy other sports more like golf, cricket, rugby and professional football less. Given football is a game that I have watched and played for nearly 50 years now it’s pretty sad that I would probably choose to go for a round of golf than watch Burnley in the Premier League right now.

[ChrisG]

The laws of rugby state that only the team captains may speak to the referee; plus of course there's the rule which allows a referee to advance a penalty by ten yards (I guess metres nowadays) should the penalised team argue/show dissent to that decision - that's one I'd love to see introduced to Association football too.

The 10 yard thing was trialled in football in the late 90s I seem to recall. I think it got scrapped because being 10 yards closer to goal isn't the same advantage as 10 yards closer to the try line. It could actual hinder you in a few circumstances such as a direct free kick.

[Hipper]

The laws of rugby state that only the team captains may speak to the referee; plus of course there's the rule which allows a referee to advance a penalty by ten yards (I guess metres nowadays) should the penalised team argue/show dissent to that decision - that's one I'd love to see introduced to Association football too.

In football it's still 10 yards - 9.15m.

[Ampth7]

Someone once said to me that Football is played by Gentlemen and watched by thugs and that Rugby is played by thugs and watched by Gentlemen. No offence to the ladies as this was a long time ago!

I believe that nowadays it’s more of a case of Football is played by toddlers and watched by a significant number of idiots and Rugby is mostly played and watched by Gentlemen (and Ladies).

Joking aside, sadly the governing bodies of Football do nothing to combat the sorts of player behaviours that Rugby simply wouldn’t tolerate! Diving, arguing with the ref, feigning injury to get opponents sent off etc, etc, etc…..Also, football has never really had a respectful approach to referees, whereas Rugby has developed a completely different culture to this going back decades. This won’t change in Football anytime soon.

[claret2018]

If football ever becomes as dull as rugby I’ll be the first to stop watching. Give me prima-Donnas feigning injury and rolling round on the floor trying to trick the ref over Tory American Football any day.

[Ampth7]

If football ever becomes as dull as rugby I’ll be the first to stop watching. Give me prima-Donnas feigning injury and rolling round on the floor trying to trick the ref over Tory American Football any day.

I agree in the sense that I would much rather watch football than rugby, especially up close having been bored to death watching a few live rugby games at Chiefs over the last few years. However, I do wish footy would cut out all the petulant nonsense and I think rugby sets a good example of how to do that.

[dandeclaret]

This myopic view of rugby is sickening….

Blood gate
Eye gouging
Sticking fingers up other players backsides
The Welsh police repeatedly going on record to say that rugby crowds are more difficult to manage than football crowds
Players calling the referee a cheat, or whinging on constantly
A kiwi player telling the ref that an Irish player is a mouthy c***
Fans fighting in the stands this weekend
Regular punch ups and assaults on the pitch

And more than anything a terribly dull sport, lacking in technical ability. Kick it off the pitch and clap…. Dull.

[boatshed bill]

And watched by beer fuelled nutters who don't have a clue about the rules

Oops, that's football too.

[jrgbfc]

If football ever becomes as dull as rugby I’ll be the first to stop watching. Give me prima-Donnas feigning injury and rolling round on the floor trying to trick the ref over Tory American Football any day.

I'm no massive rugby fan but that game between France and South Africa last night was elite sport at its very best.

[CoolClaret]

This myopic view of rugby is sickening….

Blood gate
Eye gouging
Sticking fingers up other players backsides
The Welsh police repeatedly going on record to say that rugby crowds are more difficult to manage than football crowds
Players calling the referee a cheat, or whinging on constantly
A kiwi player telling the ref that an Irish player is a mouthy c***
Fans fighting in the stands this weekend
Regular punch ups and assaults on the pitch

And more than anything a terribly dull sport, lacking in technical ability. Kick it off the pitch and clap…. Dull.

Agreed.

Lot of rugby culture is poor and a lot of ‘rugby lads’ are complete tossers.

Can spot them a mile off in City Centres.

[dsr]

This myopic view of rugby is sickening….

Blood gate
Eye gouging
Sticking fingers up other players backsides
The Welsh police repeatedly going on record to say that rugby crowds are more difficult to manage than football crowds
Players calling the referee a cheat, or whinging on constantly
A kiwi player telling the ref that an Irish player is a mouthy c***
Fans fighting in the stands this weekend
Regular punch ups and assaults on the pitch

And more than anything a terribly dull sport, lacking in technical ability. Kick it off the pitch and clap…. Dull.

You need to watch m ore rugby league. The ref is miked up and fully broadcast on live games, and it's virtually unknown to hear anyone swear at him.

As for rugby crowds being more difficult than football crowds, a few years back Huddersfield played Leeds at football, 20,000 crowd and 300 police there. A week later, Huddersfield played Leeds at rugby league, slightly less than 20,000 crowd and 6 police.

[dandeclaret]

And the wider reported reality of rugby league crowds is….. https://inews.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/ ... es-1565413

[dsr]

And the wider reported reality of rugby league crowds is….. https://inews.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/ ... es-1565413

And perhaps if football had been more concerned with antagonism and violence in football when it was low level, it wouldn't have reached high level.