Ian Maatsen

[daveisaclaret]

Do you think we've looked better at left back since Taylor came back?

I feel the only people who can't see that are the ones who said he didn't fit Kompany’s system and Kompany wouldn't select him at left back.

Definitely looked better. He's the only left back we have and I think it was incredibly naive of Kompany to think we could play without one.

But we are also a side that hasn't kept a clean sheet and conceded twice a game while he's been playing. Doesn't feel like the time to run victory laps about not signing last season's left back who is now being linked to Barcelona.

[thehistorylecturer.]

I think that if Ekdal and Beyer were fit, Delcroix would be playing left back ahead of Taylor.

I maintain he doesn’t fit the VK system and he’s only playing because he’s the only option available at the moment.

That might well be true but for me it remains completely inexplicable .. the lad from Belgium doesn't look remotely comfortable or confident .. he even looked unsteady at Salford the other week .

[taio]

Definitely looked better. He's the only left back we have and I think it was incredibly naive of Kompany to think we could play without one.

But we are also a side that hasn't kept a clean sheet and conceded twice a game while he's been playing. Doesn't feel like the time to run victory laps about not signing last season's left back who is now being linked to Barcelona.

I don't understand the point about running victory laps over not signing a left back. I think most people wanted one in the summer - it was and still is repeated by many on here. That didn't happen and Kompany was right to bring Taylor back in and we've looked better in that position for it since.

[daveisaclaret]

I don't understand the point about running victory laps over not signing a left back. I think most people wanted one in the summer - it was and still is repeated by many on here. That didn't happen and Kompany was right to bring Taylor back in and we've looked better in that position for it since.

Can only conclude if you don't understand that point that you haven't read the thread (which is titled Ian Maatsen)

[thehistorylecturer.]

One of the top performers? I’d say he’s one of our biggest problems.

A bigger problem than the inexperienced centre backs or the central midfield players who look completely out of their depth ? I think Taylor is a decent experienced Premier League left back .. unlike our much vaunted borrowed left back of last season whose club don't rate him highly enough to risk playing him there ?

[boatshed bill]

His agent has done him proud.
But would he have been worth £20million to us (not even considering the reported £30m+)?

[taio]

Can only conclude if you don't understand that point that you haven't read the thread (which is titled Ian Maatsen)

I'd have welcomed the signing of Maatsen but I can understand why some supporters were concerned about the financial implications.

[Newcastleclaret93]

A bigger problem than the inexperienced centre backs or the central midfield players who look completely out of their depth ? I think Taylor is a decent experienced Premier League left back .. unlike our much vaunted borrowed left back of last season whose club don't rate him highly enough to risk playing him there ?

Taylor is also a reason the defence doesn’t work. We can’t play how we want because he struggles on the ball.

The whole defensive system is a mess due to our recruitment.

Lb that doesn’t suit the system, inexperienced CBs and a poor midfield

[thehistorylecturer.]

Taylor is also a reason the defence doesn’t work. We can’t play how we want because he struggles on the ball.

The whole defensive system is a mess due to our recruitment.

Lb that doesn’t suit the system, inexperienced CBs and a poor midfield

Agreed to an extent - he does struggle with the ball in this system. But the problem for me is in fact further up the pitch where the midfield is simply nowhere near strong enough to cope at this level . It doesn't matter which one of our inexperienced defenders has the ball at their feet - none of the current midfield line up is quick enough or physically strong enough to do what they did last season at this level . Cullen is a big worry - so central to what we did last season and he is really really struggling

[StayingDown4Ever]

His agent has done him proud.
But would he have been worth £20million to us (not even considering the reported £30m+)?

I’d much rather we’d have spent £20million on him than the £19million we spent on Trafford.

[ksrclaret]

Taylor is also a reason the defence doesn’t work. We can’t play how we want because he struggles on the ball.

The whole defensive system is a mess due to our recruitment.

Lb that doesn’t suit the system, inexperienced CBs and a poor midfield

None of our players are good enough to play how we “want” to play at this level. That’s why they’re our players in the first place.

Trying to out football Villa, Spurs, Chelsea etc is the problem, not one or two individual players.

[taio]

I’d much rather we’d have spent £20million on him than the £19million we spent on Trafford.

Comparing apples with oranges using those figures

[AfloatinClaret]

...I also don't think anyone is saying Charlie Taylor is a better player than Maatsen though

Some of us are and indeed always were. I could see (and accepted) our playing IM in a team that was running away with the Championship, but once we got back into the EPL where we were going to have to defend far more, then Charlie Taylor was going to be our best option. My biggest surprise with our season thus far, was in how long it took before we began playing CT at left back; I can only presume that the management team wanted to try out other options - as we seem to have done in several positions - during those initial 'likely to lose whatever' games that our season's started with?

[CoolClaret]

Taylor is also a reason the defence doesn’t work. We can’t play how we want because he struggles on the ball.

The whole defensive system is a mess due to our recruitment.

Lb that doesn’t suit the system, inexperienced CBs and a poor midfield

He hasn't struggled with the ball anymore than the rest of the defenders (and goalkeeper) has.

Good distribution both games against Forest and against United

[ClaretTony]

The worry is that we offered so much for him in the first place.

We didn’t. Don’t believe the figures. The agreed fee with Chelsea was way, way, way below the quoted figures.

[Juan Tanamera]

Anybody that thinks Charlie Taylor is a better player than Ian Maatsen is best ignored.

Having Charlie Taylor at left back is a major issue for us as a unit.

I think some are suggesting that Charlie Taylor is a better defender than Ian Maatsen, which he is.

[Nori1958]

Have I missed something
Has Maatsen started a Premier League game for Chelsea
Some journal decides to put out a story that Barcelona are moving heaven and earth to sign him next summer
More likely his agent is starting to spread rumours to get him an improved offer anywhere next summer
As for Charlie Taylor,
He is all we have got (thanks to recruitment) and actually, I don't think he is doing a bad job
Given our current start to the season I think Maatsen would have made our defense even weaker

Chelsea don't think he's a defender either.... Yet some would have you believe he's the best left back ever

[JimmyRobbo]

He’s similar to Brownhill, in hes played a lot of games at premier league level. But I think there’s an argument to suggest if it wasn’t for Burnley they wouldn’t have played any games at this level.

They'd have both played for Leeds at this level. They are obviously both premier league level, albeit near the bottom, which is where we are. Nothing wrong with seeking better at both positions.

They're both good enough to be in the squads of those around us fighting for survival.

[4midable]

Agreed to an extent - he does struggle with the ball in this system. But the problem for me is in fact further up the pitch where the midfield is simply nowhere near strong enough to cope at this level . It doesn't matter which one of our inexperienced defenders has the ball at their feet - none of the current midfield line up is quick enough or physically strong enough to do what they did last season at this level . Cullen is a big worry - so central to what we did last season and he is really really struggling

He ***** about with the ball, taking until the very last second to release it and doesnt get forward enough (turns back). For me hes not good enough for the prem. We need a powerful forward thinking left back that does the defensive side too. Maatsen is the type of player that fits that build to help retain a premier league status for next season

[thehistorylecturer.]

He ***** about with the ball, taking until the very last second to release it and doesnt get forward enough (turns back). For me hes not good enough for the prem. We need a powerful forward thinking left back that does the defensive side too. Maatsen is the type of player that fits that build to help retain a premier league status for next season

Because he doesn't trust what's in front of him and neither do the rest of the back four ..

Maatsen spent most of last season out of position he wouldn't get away with it this season .. the opposition is entirely different to the level we faced last year

[KRBFC]

It’s all subjective of course. Taylor is a traditional type of defender, better at defending than Maatsen but not as effective further up the pitch.
We got away with not defending very well last year with Maatsen and co in the team, because we were so dominant in the middle of the park and banging goals in for fun.
This year because we are short of defenders who can actually defend and a fairly weak midfield in front of them we are getting torn apart with regularity. I’m just waiting patiently for Ekdal and Beyer to be fit and paired together. Charlie Taylor will be fine playing in defence with these two.
Good luck to Maatsen, he isn’t the finished article yet, but will be when he can defend properly.

I’m not sure what the subjective part is, I think it’s pretty clear that without a left back like Maatsen, the whole team identity has had to change (for the worst), Ian’s role was enormous in how the team played.

[BurnleyFC]

Anybody that thinks Charlie Taylor is a better player than Ian Maatsen is best ignored.

Having Charlie Taylor at left back is a major issue for us as a unit.

He’s not a better player, but he’s a better defender. Always has been and always will be.

Maatsen is a class player, though.

[taio]

I’m not sure what the subjective part is, I think it’s pretty clear that without a left back like Maatsen, the whole team identity has had to change (for the worst), Ian’s role was enormous in how the team played.

Subjective elements, for example, are opinions about the extent to which Maatsen would be able replicate his excellent form from last season in the Championship, compared to the significant step up to the Premier, and similarly whether we as a team we'd be able to adopt such an attacking system, again, in a league that is much more difficult.

[RicardoMontalban]

Because he doesn't trust what's in front of him and neither do the rest of the back four ..

Maatsen spent most of last season out of position he wouldn't get away with it this season .. the opposition is entirely different to the level we faced last year

If Maatsen had spent most of last season playing ‘out of position’ he would have been dropped. More likely, such was our dominance, he was able to play a much more progressive role than a traditional left back. One that season we don’t have the luxury of incorporating into our game.

[KRBFC]

Subjective elements, for example, are opinions about the extent to which Maatsen would be able replicate his excellent form from last season in the Championship, compared to the significant step up to the Premier, and similarly whether we as a team we'd be able to adopt such an attacking system, again, in a league that is much more difficult.

But he never said any of that

[arise_sir_charge]

Taylor’s lack of ability with the ball is a major issue and means we have to defend more as a result.

It’s nothing to do with not trusting what’s in front of him, it’s simply that he’s limited with the ball at his feet.

He may be better defensively than Maatsen but we’d be a better side now with Maatsen in, a bit like I think we’d be better with Muric in even though I personally don’t think Trafford has done much wrong as a keeper, but his use of the ball is much poorer than Muric’s.

This all means that the likes of Cullen don’t get the ball when they should. The keeper and full backs are taking too long to move it.

I think the opposition have worked out that Trafford can’t ping the ball, play the pass into the middle or get it out to full backs quick enough and that left back in particular we simply don’t move the ball quick enough and end up going backwards.

Also, just because he’s playing doesn’t mean he first VK’s system, he doesn’t and I think he will be left out at the first opportunity.

To add, when discussing Taylor early season I said we’d sign a left back I’d be amazed if we didn’t. I remain amazed that we didn’t sign a left back.

[taio]

But he never said any of that

He said Taylor is better at defending and Maatsen is better at attacking. He also alluded to it being easier last season because we were in the Championship. The extent to which those to things apply is subjective.

[taio]

Taylor’s lack of ability with the ball is a major issue and means we have to defend more as a result.

It’s nothing to do with not trusting what’s in front of him, it’s simply that he’s limited with the ball at his feet.

He may be better defensively than Maatsen but we’d be a better side now with Maatsen in, a bit like I think we’d be better with Muric in even though I personally don’t think Trafford has done much wrong as a keeper, but his use of the ball is much poorer than Muric’s.

This all means that the likes of Cullen don’t get the ball when they should. The keeper and full backs are taking too long to move it.

I think the opposition have worked out that Trafford can’t ping the ball, play the pass into the middle or get it out to full backs quick enough and that left back in particular we simply don’t move the ball quick enough and end up going backwards.

Also, just because he’s playing doesn’t mean he first VK’s system, he doesn’t and I think he will be left out at the first opportunity.

To add, when discussing Taylor early season I said we’d sign a left back I’d be amazed if we didn’t. I remain amazed that we didn’t sign a left back.

Most of this including your point about Cullen is due to the significant step up in standards of the PL and the opposition. Taylor does have some limitations, as do all our players at this level, but he's the best left back we have right now and, of course, Maatsen didn't want to rejoin us so it's a bit of a moot point. But, yes, we should've signed a left back, which I think the vast majority agree with.

[arise_sir_charge]

Most of this including your point about Cullen is due to the significant step up in standards of the PL and the opposition. Taylor does have some limitations, as do all our players at this level, but he's the best left back we have right now and, of course, Maatsen didn't want to rejoin us so it's a bit of a moot point. But, yes, we should've signed a left back, which I think the vast majority agree with.

Step up in standard is obvious, my point is though that we’d be better with Muric and a more suitable left back that fits our preferred system.

[taio]

Step up in standard is obvious, my point is though that we’d be better with Muric and a more suitable left back that fits our preferred system.

I can appreciate the case for Muric, but who would you want to play left back instead of Taylor from our current squad, bearing in mind the performances in that position so far this season and that you see Taylor as one of our biggest problems?

[thehistorylecturer.]

If Maatsen had spent most of last season playing ‘out of position’ he would have been dropped. More likely, such was our dominance, he was able to play a much more progressive role than a traditional left back. One that season we don’t have the luxury of incorporating into our game.

Watch back how often we conceded down his wing .. he has no idea how to defend which is why Chelsea deploy him elsewhere ?!

[boatshed bill]

I’d much rather we’d have spent £20million on him than the £19million we spent on Trafford.

I totally agree, Trafford is a lousy option at left wing-back

But seriously, we couldn't buy Maatsen for £20m when we tried to. He held all the cards and it looks like he's making the most of the situation at Chelsea by running his contract down.
Like I said, good work by his agent if he ends up at Barcelona.

[arise_sir_charge]

I can appreciate the case for Muric, but who would you want to play left back instead of Taylor from our current squad, bearing in mind the performances in that position so far this season and that you see Taylor as one of our biggest problems?

I think VK will move to Delcoix once he has more options at centre half. It’s still not ideal though.

[daveisaclaret]

Watch back how often we conceded down his wing .. he has no idea how to defend which is why Chelsea deploy him elsewhere ?!

The left backs ahead of him at Chelsea both cost about 50 million quid. It's crazy to say him not getting into the Chelsea team is any reflection on whether he's good enough for Burnley.

[taio]

I think one thing that's almost certain is that Maatsen would have started if we'd have signed him, but unfortunately he didn't want to come here.

[boatshed bill]

I think one thing that's almost certain is that Maatsen would have started if we'd have signed him, but unfortunately he didn't want to come here.

Exactly.

[Hipper]

Some interesting points but we have an example. Roberts was able to move around pretty freely, like Maatsen, last season, but he can't fully do it this year. Obviously he's not good enough to do it at this level and his defensive frailties are being shown up too as we probably knew from the relegation season. Whilst Maatsen is younger there is no evidence that he would cope any better then Roberts this season. All there is is the possibility he could.

To pay £30+ million for a player who might work out is ridiculous for our club and I'm glad that never happened. I would have like to see him on loan this season to see if he could improve but no more commitment.

[thehistorylecturer.]

The left backs ahead of him at Chelsea both cost about 50 million quid. It's crazy to say him not getting into the Chelsea team is any reflection on whether he's good enough for Burnley.

The point being they see him in a different role altogether... if they thought he was a good enough left back they would play him there.

[thehistorylecturer.]

Some interesting points but we have an example. Roberts was able to move around pretty freely, like Maatsen, last season, but he can't fully do it this year. Obviously he's not good enough to do it at this level and his defensive frailties are being shown up too as we probably knew from the relegation season. Whilst Maatsen is younger there is no evidence that he would cope any better then Roberts this season. All there is is the possibility he could.

To pay £30+ million for a player who might work out is ridiculous for our club and I'm glad that never happened. I would have like to see him on loan this season to see if he could improve but no more commitment.

This

[RVclaret]

As has been said several times we were not paying anything close to £30m for him. Football transfers just won’t sink in for some will they.

[Darnhill Claret]

Maatsen has an ability to follow the ball due to his reading of the game and his stamina a nd makes an extra man wherever he happens to be on the pitch. He is an attacking player rather than a left back. When he played, we played without a left back,with Maatsen the player to fill that role when we had to defend. Until we play our system better we will get caught out by in-form wide men such as Sterling as we gave him too much time and space. Our biggest problem at the moment is getting the balance right between our system and being tight when out of possession.

[FeedTheArf]

Charlie Taylor is a professional with 300 games under his belt - the majority of which have been in the Premier League.

Maatsen is just at the start of his career and has absolute bags of potential but is still very young. A more exciting, attacking player.

We’re trying to compare two very different players.

[Nori1958]

I’d much rather we’d have spent £20million on him than the £19million we spent on Trafford.

We haven't spent 19m on Trafford..... How many times do people need telling!!!!

[boatshed bill]

We haven't spent 19m on Trafford..... How many times do people need telling!!!!

And he's definitely not a left back

[Wokingclaret]

Jesus wept, I can see its the international week.

Taylor, we are lucky still to have him, the Chelsea result wasn't on him and we have seen how bad we are without him.

If you are to blame anyone then it's the recruitment which has left us with babies in this league and short in a few positions

[boatshed bill]

Jesus wept, I can see its the international week.

Taylor, we are lucky still to have him, the Chelsea result wasn't on him and we have seen how bad we are without him.

If you are to blame anyone then it's the recruitment which has left us with babies in this league and short in a few positions

I think the babies will grow into the job.
We have had a particularly tough start, and have been clearly better than the two lower rated teams we've played.
People need to cut down on the over-reaction and start to look forward to the rest of the season.

[dsr]

Definitely looked better. He's the only left back we have and I think it was incredibly naive of Kompany to think we could play without one.

But we are also a side that hasn't kept a clean sheet and conceded twice a game while he's been playing. Doesn't feel like the time to run victory laps about not signing last season's left back who is now being linked to Barcelona.

Four of the eight goals were against Chelsea, and it's hard to imagine how any left back could have made a difference with Sterling on the opposite side.

[Vegas Claret]

I think it says it all about Maatsen that the more experienced manager refuses to play him at left back.....

[RicardoMontalban]

Watch back how often we conceded down his wing .. he has no idea how to defend which is why Chelsea deploy him elsewhere ?!

Given how last season we conceded the fewest and scored the most in our division, it’s not unreasonable to suggest that in how the manager wished him to play defending wasn’t his sole, (or even primary?) purpose. This season that’s probably going to be different.

Not saying Maatsen would be the answer to our prayers, just last season was something of an anomaly.

[Nori1958]

And he's definitely not a left back

I know... But he replaced the kiddies favourite player, and they Carnt let go

I hope we end up paying 19m for him..... Because we'll have had several unspoilt years in the Premier league, a few top ten finishes and Trafford will have played for England at least 10 times

Anything else and we paid less than 7m for England's under 21 goalkeeper, judged by many as a top prospect

Now... As for a left back... Not Trafford and not Maatsen