I'm usually pretty positive

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 4:59 pm

but that is indefensible.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:01 pm

Not sure where on earth we go from here.

Can't believe how far backwards the team and manager have fallen.

KefkaClaret · Post by **KefkaClaret** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:02 pm

Need Ekdal and Beyer back desperately. I thought the idea of Cork playing was desperate but he genuinely couldn't do worse than what we saw today.

claret2018 · Post by **claret2018** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:02 pm

I think the worst thing we did was win the league last year. We got promoted far too early.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:04 pm

I just hope VK fronts this up honestly tonight.

Just admit today was nothing like acceptable, and try to move on from there. Glossing over that today shouldn't be happening.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:04 pm

If the lineup next week is even close to resembling todays, then Kompany really is in trouble.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:05 pm

KefkaClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:02 pm
Need Ekdal and Beyer back desperately. I thought the idea of Cork playing was desperate but he genuinely couldn't do worse than what we saw today.

Cork has more of a football brain than anyone else in the squad. Hi legs may not be what they were but his experience would help this team no end.

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:07 pm

claret2018 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:02 pm
I think the worst thing we did was win the league last year. We got promoted far too early.

No way was it way too early, ripping the squad apart and playing the wrong players is the issue

jedi_master · Post by **jedi_master** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:07 pm

It would be a fallacy for any poster to attempt to defend it, usual stance on the status of the liquid in their glass regardless. Today was a firm reality check and underlined the concern I’ve had for ages whilst many said “We’re only playing good teams at the moment” etc. The team is now faced with such pressure on these fixtures.

They lack any confidence and are wilting before our eyes. They start out a game with beans and hope, and then before our eyes they wither and fall to bits. This happens hand in hand with the atmosphere and is precisely the reason a drum would make no difference to our issues. The team has no balls and no fight. It still amazes me we somehow scored at Luton after their equaliser.

Luppy · Post by **Luppy** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:08 pm

We’ve spent a shed load of money and - hand on heart - I don’t think we have improved a single position

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:08 pm

Less than 6 months ago many on here were wetting themselves that VK may be on his way to Tottenham

ervi34 · Post by **ervi34** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:09 pm

The biggest mistake was our transfer window where we decided to spend a large amount of money on young players who are not experienced enough and play in similar positions. I have already written once that we were too focused on "players" instead of "position". We signed Odobert because our recruitment team thought he can improve us and be sold for profit in a few years, not because we needed wingers.

Wokingclaret · Post by **Wokingclaret** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:10 pm

jedi_master wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:07 pm
It would be a fallacy for any poster to attempt to defend it, usual stance on the status of the liquid in their glass regardless. Today was a firm reality check and underlined the concern I’ve had for ages whilst many said “We’re only playing good teams at the moment” etc. The team is now faced with such pressure on these fixtures.

They lack any confidence and are wilting before our eyes. They start out a game with beans and hope, and then before our eyes they wither and fall to bits. This happens hand in hand with the atmosphere and is precisely the reason a drum would make no difference to our issues. The team has no balls and no fight. It still amazes me we somehow scored at Luton after their equaliser.

It's like the Mannagement team weren't prepared for it and didn't know what we needed to even have a chance of staying up

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:10 pm

Big test of our board but for me we stick with Vincent long term 100%.

If we go down, he’ll have no takers, but will easily get us back again. If we stay up, his growth will be huge, as with the players, and we should kick on.

If we sack him, who would ever want to come? Our reputation for loyalty would be over. That, would be the beginning of the end of this glorious era I suspect.

So tonight, we stick together. That’s the key. I know this message-board won’t concur, but it should.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:11 pm

jedi_master wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:07 pm
It would be a fallacy for any poster to attempt to defend it, usual stance on the status of the liquid in their glass regardless. Today was a firm reality check and underlined the concern I’ve had for ages whilst many said “We’re only playing good teams at the moment” etc. The team is now faced with such pressure on these fixtures.

They lack any confidence and are wilting before our eyes. They start out a game with beans and hope, and then before our eyes they wither and fall to bits. This happens hand in hand with the atmosphere and is precisely the reason a drum would make no difference to our issues. The team has no balls and no fight. It still amazes me we somehow scored at Luton after their equaliser.

and our "leadership group" is either on the bench or in the stands. We are this seasons Southampton

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:11 pm

DCWat wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:05 pm
Cork has more of a football brain than anyone else in the squad. Hi legs may not be what they were but his experience would help this team no end.

It sounds utterly laughable after spending £100M, but I’d rather play Cork in the back four to help marshal it than the dross that was on display today.

We are seriously lacking leaders all over the pitch, but more than anything we need a calming influence at the back.

northernpowerhouse · Post by **northernpowerhouse** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:13 pm

Yep, I've tried to stay positive until now but let's face it we're terrible. We don't create any chances, except for the opposition. Hard to see where we go from here but I've got a few suggestions:

1. Drop the passengers. Odobert and Tresor aren't ready for the league so don't play them.

2. Go more direct when we need to. We're not good enough to play out from the back against PL teams who press well so mix it up a bit.

3. Figure out what to do with Amdouni. He's been one of our better players but what's his role in this team? He's not a striker, he's not a winger and I don't think playing him as a number 10 works. Go back to last seasons 433 even if it means dropping Amdouni for now.

jedi_master · Post by **jedi_master** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:13 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:11 pm
and our "leadership group" is either on the bench or in the stands. We are this seasons Southampton

Said it on another thread but I firmly believe if we’d simply bought THB, Maatsen and Tella when all three were available and in budget and used Benson, Zaroury, Muric etc we’d be mid table from pure riding of the crest of a wave. We only needed to add a bit last summer, could have signed the likes of Odobert, Koleosho and Berge perhaps to supplement it. We needed a replacement for Cork either way though, that’s the massive miss.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:14 pm

Today should put to bed the idea that we’re falling short because of the odd selection ie Muric for Trafford. The whole thing needs a rethink from an overhaul of the system and a totally different team selection which includes some Premier League experience - Cork and Redmond for starters.

The team has no identity, no passion, no fight, no leadership, no footballing intelligence. I knew this season would be a battle but I really thought we would at least go toe to toe against teams like Brentford. This is far worse than I imagined.

Sadly I think the damage has already been done by what is looking like a more disastrous transfer window as each week passes. No idea how we’ll turn this around unless a miracle happens when the players have their 100th coaching session.

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:14 pm

jedi_master wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:13 pm
Said it on another thread but I firmly believe if we’d simply bought THB, Maatsen and Tella when all three were available and in budget and used Benson, Zaroury, Muric etc we’d be mid table from pure riding of the crest of a wave. We only needed to add a bit last summer, could have signed the likes of Odobert, Koleosho and Berge perhaps to supplement it. We needed a replacement for Cork either way though, that’s the massive miss.

% agree

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:18 pm

claret2018 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:02 pm
I think the worst thing we did was win the league last year. We got promoted far too early.

No such thing

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:20 pm

ervi34 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:09 pm
The biggest mistake was our transfer window where we decided to spend a large amount of money on young players who are not experienced enough and play in similar positions. I have already written once that we were too focused on "players" instead of "position". We signed Odobert because our recruitment team thought he can improve us and be sold for profit in a few years, not because we needed wingers.

Bang on.

Looking at getting any player if they believe (using data) that they may 'improve' the position.

As if team building is that simple.

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:21 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:10 pm
Big test of our board but for me we stick with Vincent long term 100%.

If we go down, he’ll have no takers, but will easily get us back again. If we stay up, his growth will be huge, as with the players, and we should kick on.

If we sack him, who would ever want to come? Our reputation for loyalty would be over. That, would be the beginning of the end of this glorious era I suspect.

So tonight, we stick together. That’s the key. I know this message-board won’t concur, but it should.

I agree - and even more importantly this is Vincent's squad - he's built it and shaped it to do what he wants. Bringing a new manager in for these players isn't likely to make much difference. Then we end up in an Everton/Utd situation where new managers come in sign a few more them leave (rinse repeat) - we would be bankruptcy in 2-3 seasons

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:28 pm

We’re a squad of talented young players with bright futures but we lack any kind of cohesion, it’s like the team hasn’t played together before, that’s because it hasn’t.

Some of the players are struggling with the adjustment and quick step up, it will clearly take time for players to adapt and learn roles. Then VK has to find the best team and system from that.

There’s clearly going to be poor performances and players making mistakes along the way, they’re a young team and young manager in the toughest league in the world. I don’t think the injuries to Ekdal and Beyer is helping at all.

Also people are calling for players from last season but I think Al Dakhil, Roberts and Cullen have arguably struggled the most. Amdouni is clearly an incredibly talented player but with Cullen/Berge/Brownhill all struggling to control we can’t quite get Zeki in his ideal best role (ahead of 2 man pivot)

boyyanno · Post by **boyyanno** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:29 pm

I'm not sure why people think we will romp the championship if we go down. We look worse right now than last year, losing Maatsen, Tella, THB, and to some extent the experience of Barnes (not to mention Cork who is sat on the bench) has made us much worse as a team in my opinion. If we took them out of our team last year would we have still romped it? I'm not sure. Redmond could add some of that and I'm sure he'd have given us a better output than we've seen from others but he's barely getting minutes. I'm backing Kompany long term but he's got to change this system, we can't compete playing it.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:30 pm

boyyanno wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:29 pm
I'm not sure why people think we will romp the championship if we go down. We look worse right now than last year, losing Maatsen, Tella, THB, and to some extent the experience of Barnes (not to mention Cork who is sat on the bench) has made us much worse as a team in my opinion. If we took them out of our team last year would we have still romped it? I'm not sure. Redmond could add some of that and I'm sure he'd have given us a better output than we've seen from others but he's barely getting minutes. I'm backing Kompany long term but he's got to change this system, we can't compete playing it.

We look worse right now because we’re now playing in the toughest league in the world not the Championship.

Pearcey · Post by **Pearcey** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:32 pm

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:30 pm
We look worse right now because we’re now playing in the toughest league in the world not the Championship.

Please stop with the common sense immediately!

Casper2 · Post by **Casper2** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:32 pm

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:30 pm
We look worse right now because we’re now playing in the toughest league in the world not the Championship.

We look worse now , because we are worse .

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:34 pm

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:30 pm
We look worse right now because we’re now playing in the toughest league in the world not the Championship.

he's not wrong, it's very very rare for me to accuse a team of not putting it in

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:35 pm

We won’t beat Derby’s record at this rate. The worst I’ve seen us play for a long time, including the lacklustre Dyche pre-sacking performances. Literally nothing positive to take from the match, along with an absolute soaking on the way home as well as some bellend pulling the alarm on the train this delaying everyone..

Terry Cochrane · Post by **Terry Cochrane** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:36 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:10 pm
Big test of our board but for me we stick with Vincent long term 100%.

If we go down, he’ll have no takers, but will easily get us back again. If we stay up, his growth will be huge, as with the players, and we should kick on.

If we sack him, who would ever want to come? Our reputation for loyalty would be over. That, would be the beginning of the end of this glorious era I suspect.

So tonight, we stick together. That’s the key. I know this message-board won’t concur, but it should.

For sure I concur. And I won’t be alone. It would be madness to think about changing him. He is still learning and I know that’s a cliche but it is. 8 games doesn’t define his tenure and he has time to put this right. No way the club needs to act.

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:37 pm

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:30 pm
We look worse right now because we’re now playing in the toughest league in the world not the Championship.

Why didn't we sign players for the league we are in then instead of players incapable of playing in the higher league?
We look worse because we are worse, the fight is worse, the style is worse, the tactics are worse, the players are worse, decisions are worse, goal scoring is worse, goals conceded is worse.
Sick of hearing about sticking with VK because it's the best football we'll ever see, sorry but this is the worst we could ever see there is no style to it it's just poor really really poor

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:41 pm

Luppy wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:08 pm
We’ve spent a shed load of money and - hand on heart - I don’t think we have improved a single position

It's actually hard to argue with that, astonishing though it may be.

boyyanno · Post by **boyyanno** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:42 pm

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:30 pm
We look worse right now because we’re now playing in the toughest league in the world not the Championship.

I disagree.

We are playing against much better opposition but I think Maatsen, Tella and the experience we are missing this year has made us a worse team overall. We don't have any sort of spine and Maatsen made a massive difference on that left hand side.

We've got a lot of flashy players but not enough output. Last year we had a far better balance.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:48 pm

bumba wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:37 pm
Why didn't we sign players for the league we are in then instead of players incapable of playing in the higher league?
We look worse because we are worse, the fight is worse, the style is worse, the tactics are worse, the players are worse, decisions are worse, goal scoring is worse, goals conceded is worse.
Sick of hearing about sticking with VK because it's the best football we'll ever see, sorry but this is the worst we could ever see there is no style to it it's just poor really really poor

I don’t think the players are worse at all.

I don’t think some of these players are incapable of playing in this league either, some might not be ready yet.

We got promoted with a young inexperienced team, there was no telling who would step up and who wouldn’t immediately.

We are 8 games in with a new young side and you’re surprised we’re struggling? It’s clearly going to take time for players to adapt and gain experience, a lot of poor performances and mistakes along the way.

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:50 pm

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:48 pm
I don’t think the players are worse at all.

I don’t think some of these players are incapable of playing in this league either, some might not be ready yet.

We got promoted with a young inexperienced team, there was no telling who would step up and who wouldn’t immediately.

We are 8 games in with a new young side and you’re surprised we’re struggling? It’s clearly going to take time for players to adapt and gain experience, a lot of poor performances and mistakes along the way.

I'm not surprised we are struggling but I'm surprised in the manner of it, I'm surprised at how quickly VK pushed aside players despite himself saying it takes so long to learn his system.
Surely the sensible option would be to persist with the team who know the system ride the wave of momentum then buy your your potential and ease them in?

IAmAClaret · Post by **IAmAClaret** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:51 pm

Usually, you'd expect the momentum of winning the league the way we did to return some points - but because we changed so much, we lost that.

I think we should stay with kompany, for many reasons, and lots mentioned on this thread, but we've all watched the documentary - The board were not happy, almost confused, when we began so poorly last season. This time, they've net spent £100m+... They will be getting a little worried, and they have form for doing things against expectations.

I really do feel we need to get some experience in the 11, and the added benefit of playing our best 11. We can't carry people, and we are doing.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:51 pm

boyyanno wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:42 pm
I disagree.

We are playing against much better opposition but I think Maatsen, Tella and the experience we are missing this year has made us a worse team overall. We don't have any sort of spine and Maatsen made a massive difference on that left hand side.

We've got a lot of flashy players but not enough output. Last year we had a far better balance.

There’s no evidence to suggest Maatsen and Tella would’ve successfully made the huge step up though.

Tresor or Tella, most would have picked the full Belgian international who had the most assists in Europe last season.

Now Tresor has struggled in a few games everyone wants to play the hindsight game.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:52 pm

The miss by Koleosho epitomised exactly where we are at this season.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:53 pm

bumba wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:50 pm
I'm not surprised we are struggling but I'm surprised in the manner of it, I'm surprised at how quickly VK pushed aside players despite himself saying it takes so long to learn his system.
Surely the sensible option would be to persist with the team who know the system ride the wave of momentum then buy your your potential and ease them in?

I don’t disagree with you but some of the biggest under performers have been players we had last season. Roberts and Taylor were abysmal today. Dakhil is making costly errors every game.

So the players we had last season are struggling to step up, so you want more of them playing? We’re just hoping they don’t struggle?

Taffy on the wing · Post by **Taffy on the wing** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:53 pm

Murger wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:04 pm
If the lineup next week is even close to resembling todays, then Kompany really is in trouble.

It'll have Trafford in goal again & the game will follow a similar pattern to today...probably.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:53 pm

bumba wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:50 pm
I'm not surprised we are struggling but I'm surprised in the manner of it, I'm surprised at how quickly VK pushed aside players despite himself saying it takes so long to learn his system.
Surely the sensible option would be to persist with the team who know the system ride the wave of momentum then buy your your potential and ease them in?

^^^^^^^^ nail firmly twatted on the head

boyyanno · Post by **boyyanno** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:55 pm

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:51 pm
There’s no evidence to suggest Maatsen and Tella would’ve successfully made the huge step up though.

Tresor or Tella, most would have picked the full Belgian international who had the most assists in Europe last season.

Now Tresor has struggled in a few games everyone wants to play the hindsight game.

I'm not sure they would have made the step up either, but I do know they were part of a successful team that had a good balance to it. We've completely ripped that apart. I appreciate we've signed some good players, absolutely no doubt about it, but that's not what being a team is about. We haven't got the right personal to play the system and style we want to play and we don't have any experience or fight in the 11.

The reason Dyche was successful is because having 11 talented footballers is sometimes not as good as 11 players in a proper team. We are falling short at the moment and I feel we are short of where we finished last season.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:56 pm

I do agree with you though Bumba, id have Muric, Ekdal, Beyer, Benson and Zaroury in this team instantly. The problem is 3 of them are injured.

Les Lawrence · Post by **Les Lawrence** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:56 pm

Need a leader in team,Barton type in midfield or centre half.Get Redmond in for Amdouni,and give Trafford a rest.Sorted

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:57 pm

nobody can defend that nobody can defend, you struggle to find this amount of space in League Two
https://x.com/TheBurnleyWay/status/1715 ... 25168?s=20

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:58 pm

I’d have loved Maatsen back too but he obviously didn’t want to come back here.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 6:05 pm

Les Lawrence wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:56 pm
Need a leader in team,Barton type in midfield or centre half.Get Redmond in for Amdouni,and give Trafford a rest.Sorted

How is that “sorted”?

You’ve highlighted an issue (that I don’t disagree with) and then proceeded to swap the keepers over and bring a winger in for a central forward.

Les Lawrence · Post by **Les Lawrence** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 6:10 pm

What would you change DC, I'm keen to know.Too many people's arse falling out,after a bad start.

Burnley1989 · Post by **Burnley1989** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 6:11 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:10 pm
Big test of our board but for me we stick with Vincent long term 100%.

If we go down, he’ll have no takers, but will easily get us back again. If we stay up, his growth will be huge, as with the players, and we should kick on.

If we sack him, who would ever want to come? Our reputation for loyalty would be over. That, would be the beginning of the end of this glorious era I suspect.

So tonight, we stick together. That’s the key. I know this message-board won’t concur, but it should.

100%