what are our tactics?
what are our tactics?
We're clearly no longer a passing team, we were out passed by one of the most direct teams in the league today and that has been the case most matches.
We're not direct, we don't press, we don't go down the wings and whip crosses in or slip balls through the middle.
What is the plan?
We're not direct, we don't press, we don't go down the wings and whip crosses in or slip balls through the middle.
What is the plan?
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Re: what are our tactics?
Pass back to Traff , kick it into touch at half way, rinse and repeat
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Re: what are our tactics?
I think Kompany probably knows, or at least I hope he does, but I’m pretty certain the players don’t.
Re: what are our tactics?
The plan is to get 120 meeting and trading sessions in to the players then we'll become Barcelona and move up the league.
Can you not see it?
Can you not see it?
Re: what are our tactics?
Dyche got slated but the football this season has been far worse
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Re: what are our tactics?
I'm genuinely excited to see which poster will post the same thing the most times on different threads this evening. Go for it, lads.
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Re: what are our tactics?
We are mixing up our play more I’d say but I think the biggest issue is a lack of cohesion across the board. There’s a lot of talk about last seasons 11 being better etc but that team in the first 10 games in the Champ would also have been slaughtered in these games. Guess my point is that I’m hoping things ‘click’ a lot faster than they appear to be as I still back the manager and his tactics. I will say Constantly changing the starting 11 doesn’t help.
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Re: what are our tactics?
We have tactics?
Re: what are our tactics?
What are our tactics? That question implies we have tactics,only tactics we have is
1 Don’t pick Muric,Cork,Zaroury ,or Larsen in the starting 11
2 If we’re losing bring on a winger
3 If we’re still losing bring on another winger
4 If we’re being overrun in midfield bring on another winger.
1 Don’t pick Muric,Cork,Zaroury ,or Larsen in the starting 11
2 If we’re losing bring on a winger
3 If we’re still losing bring on another winger
4 If we’re being overrun in midfield bring on another winger.
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Re: what are our tactics?
At least with Dyche we'd lump it in the box and try create somethingSuperjohnnyfrancis wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:35 pmWe are not “that bad” just yet but we are close. Like a passing backwards version of that.
Least we was organised it was dull at the end but this is so draining to watch, I'll admit I've never liked watching your man city or arsenal back in the day I'd rather watch a man Utd under Fergie or a Liverpool under klopp.
Possession football done slow is boring
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Re: what are our tactics?
At least some fans realise that making a few reactionary saves doesn’t make Trafford a good keeper.Superjohnnyfrancis wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:32 pmPass back to Traff , kick it into touch at half way, rinse and repeat
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Re: what are our tactics?
I don’t miss westwoods punts into the stratosphere they were more depressing than today. Anyhow we can’t play any worse so that’s a bonus. Onwards and upwards!bumba wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:39 pmAt least with Dyche we'd lump it in the box and try create something
Least we was organised it was dull at the end but this is so draining to watch, I'll admit I've never liked watching your man city or arsenal back in the day I'd rather watch a man Utd under Fergie or a Liverpool under klopp.
Possession football done slow is boring
Re: what are our tactics?
If there are 100 replies to this thread, there won't be any agreeing apart from "we don't have a plan".
VK has gone backwards this season, no doubt, but I still can't believe he would send the team out without a plan and to be so abject.
I can only conclude the plan is so complicated the players just haven't the foggiest how to go about implementing it.
This magical 100th coaching session needs marking with white smoke so we all know when we can expect the team to know what the hell they're doing.
VK has gone backwards this season, no doubt, but I still can't believe he would send the team out without a plan and to be so abject.
I can only conclude the plan is so complicated the players just haven't the foggiest how to go about implementing it.
This magical 100th coaching session needs marking with white smoke so we all know when we can expect the team to know what the hell they're doing.
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Re: what are our tactics?
Up to Vinny now to front up his mistake and quickly
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Re: what are our tactics?
We're still trying to be a passing team, we're just not good enough to do it in the PL where teams are more physical and press us rather than sit back.
Watch the first half today and we were clearly trying to pass it out from the back, it just didn't work at all.
Watch the first half today and we were clearly trying to pass it out from the back, it just didn't work at all.
Re: what are our tactics?
I've thought that every weekSuperjohnnyfrancis wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:41 pmI don’t miss westwoods punts into the stratosphere they were more depressing than today. Anyhow we can’t play any worse so that’s a bonus. Onwards and upwards!
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Re: what are our tactics?
As General Melchett would say, doing what we did in the previous 8 defeats is the last thing the opposition will expect......
Whateer the tactics have been lately, they haven't worked. Yet we haven't tried to do anything different. Changing the odd player is pointless, unless we come up with a different solution.
Whateer the tactics have been lately, they haven't worked. Yet we haven't tried to do anything different. Changing the odd player is pointless, unless we come up with a different solution.
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Re: what are our tactics?
Start with 4/5 floaty interchangeable attacking mids/wingers
Concede, replace them with a few more, rinse repeat.
No structure, no plan b. Crap
We are crying out for a Muric long ball to Tella in behind. Absolutely crying out for it.
Concede, replace them with a few more, rinse repeat.
No structure, no plan b. Crap
We are crying out for a Muric long ball to Tella in behind. Absolutely crying out for it.
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Re: what are our tactics?
Gonna die on this Muric long ball to Tella hill aren’t youCoolClaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 6:11 pmStart with 4/5 floaty interchangeable attacking mids/wingers
Concede, replace them with a few more, rinse repeat.
No structure, no plan b. Crap
We are crying out for a Muric long ball to Tella in behind. Absolutely crying out for it.
In all seriousness I can think of 4/5 occasions (WBA away and Wigan away spring to mind) it actually had a meaningful impact last season and that was against opponents significantly worse. I do take your point but I think you are overstating it quite a bit. Way bigger issues (midfield and tactics).
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Re: what are our tactics?
We pass out from the back to invite the opposition to press, but we struggle to pass and receive under pressure.
Nobody wants to win headers though, so best not launch it.
Nobody wants to win headers though, so best not launch it.
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Re: what are our tactics?
Yeah I certainly am - also off the top of my head Hull, Boro, Watford to an extent.RVclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 6:13 pmGonna die on this Muric long ball to Tella hill aren’t you
In all seriousness I can think of 4/5 occasions (WBA away and Wigan away spring to mind) it actually had a meaningful impact last season and that was against opponents significantly worse. I do take your point but I think you are overstating it quite a bit. Way bigger issues (midfield and tactics).
Definitely more than 4/5 games - and a lot of them teams were playing with a lower block; we just managed to catch them out on an odd attack.
The threat in behind definitely helped our play, teams had to respect it.
Re: what are our tactics?
I thought today, we nearly got it right for some of the time, but our younger players are tactically naive when things aren't going to plan.
1st half we were stumped when up against Brentfords hard press and more lively, aggressive play.
They couldn't keep that pace up, and didn't, but although we started the 2nd half well we didn't defend well enough and got suckered on a counter.
It's a long season and we can yet come good.
1st half we were stumped when up against Brentfords hard press and more lively, aggressive play.
They couldn't keep that pace up, and didn't, but although we started the 2nd half well we didn't defend well enough and got suckered on a counter.
It's a long season and we can yet come good.
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Re: what are our tactics?
Those Westwood punts with his back to goal, shuddering at the thoughtSuperjohnnyfrancis wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:41 pmI don’t miss westwoods punts into the stratosphere they were more depressing than today. Anyhow we can’t play any worse so that’s a bonus. Onwards and upwards!
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Re: what are our tactics?
Defour £8m
Brady £13m
Cork £10m
Hendrick £10m
Pope £1m
Gray £9m
Guddy £1m
Right back £1m
Tarks £3m
Chris wood £15m
Vydra £10m
Westwood £5m
Ward £500k?
Brownhill £7m
£93.5m
can’t remember his other buys so maybe more than those.
I get what you mean but saying he had no spend is misleading. This looks a lot more value than we have on the pitch at present.
This was before stupidly high fees though.
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Re: what are our tactics?
Hope.
Pray.
Wicca Rituals.
Human Sacrifices.
Pray.
Wicca Rituals.
Human Sacrifices.
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Re: what are our tactics?
Our tactics in the championship till Feb were more cautious than our tactics this season. Cork and Cullen allowing the rest to play more free.
Cork isn’t the long term answer but surely he’s still able to play one game a week
Cork isn’t the long term answer but surely he’s still able to play one game a week
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Re: what are our tactics?
Not sure, but whatever they are we had an equal share of possession today.
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Re: what are our tactics?
Superjohnnyfrancis wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 6:49 pmDefour £8m
Brady £13m
Cork £10m
Hendrick £10m
Pope £1m
Gray £9m
Guddy £1m
Right back £1m
Tarks £3m
Chris wood £15m
Vydra £10m
Westwood £5m
Ward £500k?
Brownhill £7m
£93.5m
can’t remember his other buys so maybe more than those.
I get what you mean but saying he had no spend is misleading. This looks a lot more value than we have on the pitch at present.
This was before stupidly high fees though.
This, and I'm guessing some serious wages.
People need to understand that we have built this squad on what is now a shoestring by EPL standards.
Re: what are our tactics?
Not sure about tactics.....but I used to love those little liquorice tictacs, are they still around, haven't seen them in ages.
Re: what are our tactics?
I don't remember signing all those in the same summerSuperjohnnyfrancis wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 6:49 pmDefour £8m
Brady £13m
Cork £10m
Hendrick £10m
Pope £1m
Gray £9m
Guddy £1m
Right back £1m
Tarks £3m
Chris wood £15m
Vydra £10m
Westwood £5m
Ward £500k?
Brownhill £7m
£93.5m
can’t remember his other buys so maybe more than those.
I get what you mean but saying he had no spend is misleading. This looks a lot more value than we have on the pitch at present.
This was before stupidly high fees though.
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Re: what are our tactics?
He never got a summer like VK had especially when VK got a clean slate to bring his own squad last summer.
The summer window and players pushed aside just looks more and more baffling as it's gone that horribly wrong it's as though VK is now being too stubborn to bring them back in
The summer window and players pushed aside just looks more and more baffling as it's gone that horribly wrong it's as though VK is now being too stubborn to bring them back in
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Re: what are our tactics?
It seems to me at the moment it's to concede as many goals as possible.
Re: what are our tactics?
Last season when we started a bit ropey it was clear there was a gameplan, an aim, an identity, a way to win games. It was clearer that things would come together.
This season? I have absolutely no idea what we're trying to be, and worryingly I'm not so sure Kompany or the players do. Do we keep the ball? Do we play with wingers? Counter attack? Direct?
Answers on a one hundred million pound postcard please.
This season? I have absolutely no idea what we're trying to be, and worryingly I'm not so sure Kompany or the players do. Do we keep the ball? Do we play with wingers? Counter attack? Direct?
Answers on a one hundred million pound postcard please.
Re: what are our tactics?
We're committed to playing out from the back, but we're not good enough to do it now, anyone good at pressing has us beat. Taylor's worse than Maatsen at it, Trafford's not as confident as Muric. Roberts is struggling in possession at PL level, as is O'Shea. Cullen's our only good CM for receiving the ball playing out, but if he's marked we've no good options. It's not Brownhill's game and Berge and Ramsey have been a liability coming deep. Another issue there is that it's not like Roberts, Taylor, Brownhill or Berge are of an age where they'll quickly develop into good players for playing it out under pressure.
We could use Berge and Brownhill to play direct though, Berge good in the air, Brownhill good for a second ball, Foster has looked decent in the air (but was dominated today).
When were playing a good pressing side (Brentford definitely are that, especially at home) accept we don't have players to play out from the back and go direct.
We could use Berge and Brownhill to play direct though, Berge good in the air, Brownhill good for a second ball, Foster has looked decent in the air (but was dominated today).
When were playing a good pressing side (Brentford definitely are that, especially at home) accept we don't have players to play out from the back and go direct.
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Re: what are our tactics?
Over how many years?Superjohnnyfrancis wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 6:49 pmDefour £8m
Brady £13m
Cork £10m
Hendrick £10m
Pope £1m
Gray £9m
Guddy £1m
Right back £1m
Tarks £3m
Chris wood £15m
Vydra £10m
Westwood £5m
Ward £500k?
Brownhill £7m
£93.5m
can’t remember his other buys so maybe more than those.
I get what you mean but saying he had no spend is misleading. This looks a lot more value than we have on the pitch at present.
This was before stupidly high fees though.
Re: what are our tactics?
A PL squad Dyche assembled on peanutsboatshed bill wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 7:52 pmThat's because we didn't need to, we hadn't just dismantled a PL squad.
Re: what are our tactics?
This in a nutshell.northernpowerhouse wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:46 pmWe're still trying to be a passing team, we're just not good enough to do it in the PL where teams are more physical and press us rather than sit back.
Watch the first half today and we were clearly trying to pass it out from the back, it just didn't work at all.
Re: what are our tactics?
Last season you can imagine the below average champ manager saying ‘ we need to mark Cullen cos he’s the play maker’ so when Muric played it to Cullen all the numpties would run towards him he would lay it off to either of our fullback and we’d have taken 3 of their players out of the game (simples) Prem managers are slightly more street wise.
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Re: what are our tactics?
Agree about trying to be a passing team. But Trafford’s pass destination is nothing like Muric. It is invariably very short. And none of our back four are accomplished passers, THB was far better than any. So that is a big problem.
The other tactical problem is how we lose our shape. That second goal when we were on top is a case in point. OK, we lost the ball, but Berge despite being one of only two recognised central midfielders was jogging back into the shot when Mbeumo was hitting the net, they were passing it around our box for 5 seconds prior to that. Tresor had sprinted all the way back and was in our box yet the central midfielder was nowhere to be seen. When Cullen had to go to left back to help the back two at the start of that Brentford attack there was a chasm probably 30 yards wide outside our box in central areas. This isn’t just Berge not being a defensive midfielder, it is training, tactics, shape. We are meant to do drills where if one player goes, the other sits. It isn’t working whatever we are trying.
I suspect both these issues are down to personnel, partly in the window, which we cannot solve for now, and partly selection errors. VK distrusts our experience, yet whenever they play we do better. He has to have Brownhill in midfield, Jay upfront as a sub for the last 20. Messengo is an odd omission. Berge can only play in a three and has just played a knackering 180 minutes for Norway. Tresor is being picked out of position, right not left. As is Al Dakhil at LCB. As is Berge. As is Amdouni.
Teams like Man Utd who I’ve watched tonight play like this with gaps everywhere, but they have elite players to rescue situations and / or not give away the ball. Lower sides don’t.
The entire post I’ve written above comes down to manager choices. I’m a massive fan. I think he’ll get there. But very few elite players make it at top level management. Lampard, fail. Gerrard, fail. Keane, fail. Neville(s), fail. Others like Bruce don’t get to the top. It isn’t a given and he is more in danger of his prior knowledge being a burden than a strength because he seems to be asking players to do what they cannot.
The other tactical problem is how we lose our shape. That second goal when we were on top is a case in point. OK, we lost the ball, but Berge despite being one of only two recognised central midfielders was jogging back into the shot when Mbeumo was hitting the net, they were passing it around our box for 5 seconds prior to that. Tresor had sprinted all the way back and was in our box yet the central midfielder was nowhere to be seen. When Cullen had to go to left back to help the back two at the start of that Brentford attack there was a chasm probably 30 yards wide outside our box in central areas. This isn’t just Berge not being a defensive midfielder, it is training, tactics, shape. We are meant to do drills where if one player goes, the other sits. It isn’t working whatever we are trying.
I suspect both these issues are down to personnel, partly in the window, which we cannot solve for now, and partly selection errors. VK distrusts our experience, yet whenever they play we do better. He has to have Brownhill in midfield, Jay upfront as a sub for the last 20. Messengo is an odd omission. Berge can only play in a three and has just played a knackering 180 minutes for Norway. Tresor is being picked out of position, right not left. As is Al Dakhil at LCB. As is Berge. As is Amdouni.
Teams like Man Utd who I’ve watched tonight play like this with gaps everywhere, but they have elite players to rescue situations and / or not give away the ball. Lower sides don’t.
The entire post I’ve written above comes down to manager choices. I’m a massive fan. I think he’ll get there. But very few elite players make it at top level management. Lampard, fail. Gerrard, fail. Keane, fail. Neville(s), fail. Others like Bruce don’t get to the top. It isn’t a given and he is more in danger of his prior knowledge being a burden than a strength because he seems to be asking players to do what they cannot.
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Re: what are our tactics?
In my opinion, we are still playing with a passing and possession based approach but the defence and goalkeeper are absolutely killing us.
Last season, when Muric was pressed it was actually brilliant news as he was usually capable of picking out the spare man and we would have an advantage straight away. Trafford quite clearly isn’t capable of doing that and more often than not lumps it forward and it comes straight back.
The times when he isn’t under pressure and passes it out to his back line are just as bad. There is only Roberts who is capable of taking it and playing it with confidence (apart from today obviously!). Taylor - Obviously can’t do it or he would have played more last season.
Al-Dakhil - Consistently takes one too many touches then plays it backwards or sideways creating huge pressure leading to a punt up the pitch.
O’Shea/Delcroix - Neither seem capable to doing what we were doing last season.
We need Muric back in the nets ASAP. We also need to pray for a Beyer recovery as he is more than capable of receiving the ball and doing something with it.
Last season, when Muric was pressed it was actually brilliant news as he was usually capable of picking out the spare man and we would have an advantage straight away. Trafford quite clearly isn’t capable of doing that and more often than not lumps it forward and it comes straight back.
The times when he isn’t under pressure and passes it out to his back line are just as bad. There is only Roberts who is capable of taking it and playing it with confidence (apart from today obviously!). Taylor - Obviously can’t do it or he would have played more last season.
Al-Dakhil - Consistently takes one too many touches then plays it backwards or sideways creating huge pressure leading to a punt up the pitch.
O’Shea/Delcroix - Neither seem capable to doing what we were doing last season.
We need Muric back in the nets ASAP. We also need to pray for a Beyer recovery as he is more than capable of receiving the ball and doing something with it.
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Re: what are our tactics?
Don’t know what our Tactics are but I certainly know that in 4 games we have tried Cullen and berge and then Amdouni acting as a 10 just isn’t working
Re: what are our tactics?
Haven’t played that once123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 9:22 amDon’t know what our Tactics are but I certainly know that in 4 games we have tried Cullen and berge and then Amdouni acting as a 10 just isn’t working
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Re: what are our tactics?
This is worse than anything under DycheSuperjohnnyfrancis wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:35 pmWe are not “that bad” just yet but we are close. Like a passing backwards version of that.
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Re: what are our tactics?
Big difference from last season is lack of width and all our play condensed into the central areas.
There isn’t a pure wing back down the left, either underlapping or overlapping. There isn’t a winger on the touch line on the other side and there isn’t an inverted full back either. We have gone straight to a flat back 4 with the ‘wing backs’ not getting forward often enough and the wingers are far too narrow. Not signing top quality full backs has proven to be very costly and bizarre and it must be addressed in Jan. until then, we need the wingers to play wider and we also need the central midfield to stay compact. At times yesterday there was literally zero central midfielders as Cullen was on a hiding to nothing sat as a defensive mid with berge miles up the pitch. The team needs balance.
There isn’t a pure wing back down the left, either underlapping or overlapping. There isn’t a winger on the touch line on the other side and there isn’t an inverted full back either. We have gone straight to a flat back 4 with the ‘wing backs’ not getting forward often enough and the wingers are far too narrow. Not signing top quality full backs has proven to be very costly and bizarre and it must be addressed in Jan. until then, we need the wingers to play wider and we also need the central midfield to stay compact. At times yesterday there was literally zero central midfielders as Cullen was on a hiding to nothing sat as a defensive mid with berge miles up the pitch. The team needs balance.
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Re: what are our tactics?
No, no it’s not. Sometimes I think some of our fans are goldfish when it comes to memories.
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