Looks like we are buying Tresor

[boatshed bill]

.



We had the largest operating budget in the league last season (which we used to maximum effect) , and again this year have spent very well. After 10 games there isn’t much to cheer about and it’s becoming Groundhog Day.

Perhaps we had the biggest operating budget in the EFL last season, I don't know, but it was generated through player sales so it's not like a giant sum with which to strengthen an existing squad.
Our net spend under VK is comparative peanuts for a PL club.
We may not see the best from some of our new recruits for some time, but to believe that we had a budget to put a top PL squad together is a tad unrealistic.

[KRBFC]

Nottingham Forest got promoted in similar fashion with a team full of loan players, they stuck with Cooper after a poor slow start and survived comfortably. Wolves were bottom of the PL at Christmas and survived comfortably.

It’s almost like people on here just don’t watch football.

[Quicknick]

Nottingham Forest got promoted in similar fashion with a team full of loan players, they stuck with Cooper after a poor slow start and survived comfortably. Wolves were bottom of the PL at Christmas and survived comfortably.

It’s almost like people on here just don’t watch football.

I think we will survive, KR.

[CoolClaret]

Perhaps we had the biggest operating budget in the EFL last season, I don't know, but it was generated through player sales so it's not like a giant sum with which to strengthen an existing squad.
Our net spend under VK is comparative peanuts for a PL club.
We may not see the best from some of our new recruits for some time, but to believe that we had a budget to put a top PL squad together is a tad unrealistic.

It was - never suggested it wasn’t… still, following on from 6/7 seasons in the big time we were a big player for the league.

No one is saying that we should be a ‘top PL side’ or suggesting the moneh suggests that - more for the spend we should be more competitive.

Nottingham Forest got promoted in similar fashion with a team full of loan players, they stuck with Cooper after a poor slow start and survived comfortably. Wolves were bottom of the PL at Christmas and survived comfortably.

It’s almost like people on here just don’t watch football.

Forest scraped up through the playoffs and hadn’t been in the PL for 20 years.

They were also not conceding like we are every game

[boatshed bill]

It was - never suggested it wasn’t… still, following on from 6/7 seasons in the big time we were a big player for the league.

No one is saying that we should be a ‘top PL side’ or suggesting the moneh suggests that - more for the spend we should be more competitive.



Forest scraped up through the playoffs and hadn’t been in the PL for 20 years.

They were also not conceding like we are every game

I don't know much about Forest's transfer activity, but do you know how they spent their budget?
We have invested in very inexperienced players who are undoubtedly finding the PL very difficult at present. Could change in time and we will be OK.

[mdd2]

Bargain

Are we really paying 18millionEuros for him?

[Devils_Advocate]

It was - never suggested it wasn’t… still, following on from 6/7 seasons in the big time we were a big player for the league.

No one is saying that we should be a ‘top PL side’ or suggesting the moneh suggests that - more for the spend we should be more competitive.

Kompany took a relegated side not good enough for the Premier League and lost around £70m worth of our best talent. He then used around £40m spend to replace it so its no wonder we are going to struggle cos you cant replace that amount of experience and talent so quickly and expect to be anything other than a team battling to stay up.

I think we have spent enough this summer (especially if we spend more in January) to expect to survive and be disappointed it we don't but Im definitely not surprised of how difficult we are finding it for the first part of this season

17th would be a brilliant result this season and all the better cos the majority of our players are just going to improve and get better with experience, age and coaching but its just can we do what Villa did under Dean Smith when they took this kind of approach and just survive that first season.

Villa stayed up by the skin of their teeth and a lot of people on here criticised their transfer policy and said they had wasted a lot of money but in their second season a lot of those player came good and Villa came 11th the second season

[CoolClaret]

Kompany took a relegated side not good enough for the Premier League and lost around £70m worth of our best talent. He then used around £40m spend to replace it so its no wonder we are going to struggle cos you cant replace that amount of experience and talent so quickly and expect to be anything other than a team battling to stay up.

I think we have spent enough this summer (especially if we spend more in January) to expect to survive and be disappointed it we don't but Im definitely not surprised of how difficult we are finding it for the first part of this season

17th would be a brilliant result this season and all the better cos the majority of our players are just going to improve and get better with experience, age and coaching but its just can we do what Villa did under Dean Smith when they took this kind of approach and just survive that first season.

Villa stayed up by the skin of their teeth and a lot of people on here criticised their transfer policy and said they had wasted a lot of money but in their second season a lot of those player came good and Villa came 11th the second season

Again - Villa were a playoff team not a 9/10 point clear title winning side.

He did do amazingly with the budget last season no question.

The lack of continuity though and the imbalance of the squad is actively harming us, imo. We look absolutely dreadful

[CoolClaret]

I don't know much about Forest's transfer activity, but do you know how they spent their budget?
We have invested in very inexperienced players who are undoubtedly finding the PL very difficult at present. Could change in time and we will be OK.

It could do yeah but we’ve made a rod for our own back with unnecessary signings.

We have 13 players in our squad that have played on the wing for Burnley at one point in 2023

That’s crazy no matter which way one looks at it.

[Jamesy]

Settling in a new country is one thing, but it doesn’t stop you beating the first man from a corner or putting the effort in.

At least with Foster last season you could see he was trying - almost too hard at times.

Yes if he had the enthusiasm that Foster shows then he may win a few fans over. Right now I wouldn’t pay his wages in washers. And don’t start me off on his corner taking ability, or lack of.

[boatshed bill]

It could do yeah but we’ve made a rod for our own back with unnecessary signings.

We have 13 players in our squad that have played on the wing for Burnley at one point in 2023

That’s crazy no matter which way one looks at it.

Wingers or just forwards in a front 3?

[Big Vinny K]

Saying we should be a big player in this league because one summer of spend is just completely ignoring the facts of our own financial transformation and that of all the other clubs too.
There are too many examples of clubs spending more than us and still struggling to lift but a few recent ones where clubs either got relegated or very nearly did include Fulham, Forest and Sheffield United.
How many of those clubs in the season prior to spending a £100m plus lost their best players ?
How many of those clubs in the season before reduced their wage bill by anywhere near the amount we did ?

I know when it comes to Burnley there is a myopic view from some fans but you have to look at what other clubs have done as everything is relative in the premier league.
There is no doubt about it that the league is changing very quickly in terms of the wealth of the big 7 or 8 clubs, the wealth of the next 6 or 7 clubs and then those few left which are fallen further and further behind and will often be left scrapping our relegation.
Of course there’s always the odd exception and we have been one under Dyche but the exceptions are becoming fewer and the gap bigger.

Spending £100m in one transfer window may seem astronomical for Burnley - but it’s nothing now in this league and especially when so little has been spent in previous years.

It’s the first old Harry Redknapp transfer strategy for most clubs - if you throw enough cash at it 1 out of every players you but might turn out good !! As a club that won’t work for us so if we have got it wrong this window it’s going to be hard (oh and being relegation does not equate to getting it wrong if we go back up next years and the players develop)

[agreenwood]

We knew we had an obligation to buy him. It was reported at the time.

Good opportunity to slag him off and beat the club up on a new thread tho. As you were.

[CoolClaret]

Wingers or just forwards in a front 3?

Does it matter? One man’s winger is another wide forward

The point is every week we have been leaving someone out of the squad that cost a significant amount of money.

That’s an indictment on the strange transfer window.

Twist it all you want but it’s facts.

There’s still time yet but we need a rapid improvement to have any chance of staying up.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Thought this thread started off fairly supportive but it has now become more childlike again.

I’m not a believer in criticising effort or attitude. People say that about Berge too, just because he has that lumbering style akin to Yaya Toure, who wasn’t a bad player.

I see Tresor as working hard, doing a few too many tricks in his own half, but he has never been one to fly into 50/50 tackles, he does though run. That Brentford goal from Mbuemo he made his way all the way back into our box and probably ran more to defend that move than any other player. Let's lay off calling him disinterested or not trying after only playing 220 minutes. It’s insulting and doesn’t reflect well on the poster.

[CoolClaret]

Saying we should be a big player in this league because one summer of spend is just completely ignoring the facts of our own financial transformation and that of all the other clubs too.

That was never said, not sure why it’s been repeated.

[Jamesy]

Thought this thread started off fairly supportive but it has now become more childlike again.

I’m not a believer in criticising effort or attitude. People say that about Berge too, just because he has that lumbering style akin to Yaya Toure, who wasn’t a bad player.

I see Tresor as working hard, doing a few too many tricks in his own half, but he has never been one to fly into 50/50 tackles, he does though run. That Brentford goal from Mbuemo he made his way all the way back into our box and probably ran more to defend that move than any other player. Let's lay off calling him disinterested or not trying after only playing 220 minutes. It’s insulting and doesn’t reflect well on the poster.

Fair points. However, we are about to pay 18 million Euros for him.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Do we have a receipt?

In fairness to him though he has time to improve. I would have liked to have seen us at least try to replace Cork with a younger version ,if such a player exists.

This is two managers now that think we are ok in centre midfield when clearly we are not.

[DCWat]

Fair points. However, we are about to pay 18 million Euros for him.

And we have to trust that we’ve seen plenty to warrant such a fee.

The lad needs time - he’s had little more than cameos or been played on the wrong wing.

This, alongside playing with new players in a team that has far from settled, moving to a new country, new league and playing against better players.

It might take months, it might be next season, but let’s not write players off so quickly.

[Hedontplayforyou]

We all knew it was happening, we’ve seen nothing of him really. I fully expect him to come good. Needs playing in the right position to be effective

[boatshed bill]

Does it matter? One man’s winger is another wide forward

The point is every week we have been leaving someone out of the squad that cost a significant amount of money.

That’s an indictment on the strange transfer window.

Twist it all you want but it’s facts.

There’s still time yet but we need a rapid improvement to have any chance of staying up.

Yes it does matter.
I'm not twisting anything by asking a straight question.
One of your "wingers" will no doubt be Foster, and another Obafemi. Neither are wingers.

[Jakubclaret]

We all knew it was happening, we’ve seen nothing of him really. I fully expect him to come good. Needs playing in the right position to be effective

He'll only come good by selecting him to play more often & in his proper position, but if you think that's going to happen anytime soon under VK you have more faith in that than me.

[Casper2]

I want us to win on Saturday just to stop the constant whinging and negativity on every single thread

Strange reason, I wants us to win because we need the points , talk about agendas.

[Hipper]

I get the point that we (and it seems VK) have no idea what our best team is. That's the one hope we have. Sheffield United know what their best team is and are playing it!!!!!!

[CoolClaret]

Yes it does matter.
I'm not twisting anything by asking a straight question.
One of your "wingers" will no doubt be Foster, and another Obafemi. Neither are wingers.

They aren’t ‘wingers’ but they’ve played there -

The point being you shouldn’t have that many players in the squad that have played that role in a what 25 game stretch or something.

It’s not like they’ve played there when we’ve had an injury crisis - it means they’re valid options… meaning that no matter what someone is missing out.

When we’re short elsewhere it’s just bizarre and a poor use of funds/wages.

[ksrclaret]

I remember someone on here over the summer swearing blind that Burnley weren't stockpiling wingers.

2 warehouses later...

[boatshed bill]

They aren’t ‘wingers’ but they’ve played there -

The point being you shouldn’t have that many players in the squad that have played that role in a what 25 game stretch or something.

It’s not like they’ve played there when we’ve had an injury crisis - it means they’re valid options… meaning that no matter what someone is missing out.

When we’re short elsewhere it’s just bizarre and a poor use of funds/wages.

Short definitely at LB, but I genuinely believe we thought we'd get Maatsen, and in the end it was too late to go for another choice.
RB is a bit weak, but like everywhere else on the pitch we have at least 2 options.
You clearly struggle to see the difference between an outright (or left ) winger and a left or right sided forward, and you are basing a rather flimsy argument on 2 years of football... 2 years of rapid change and redevelopment.

[CoolClaret]

Short definitely at LB, but I genuinely believe we thought we'd get Maatsen, and in the end it was too late to go for another choice.
RB is a bit weak, but like everywhere else on the pitch we have at least 2 options.
You clearly struggle to see the difference between an outright (or left ) winger and a left or right sided forward, and you are basing a rather flimsy argument on 2 years of football... 2 years of rapid change and redevelopment.

I really don’t struggle at all.

My overriding point still stands. Wasted cash when we needed upgrades/better depth elsewhere

[kaptin1]

I remember someone on here over the summer swearing blind that Burnley weren't stockpiling wingers.

2 warehouses later...

Makes a change to stockpiling dry powder

[summitclaret]

Makes a change to stockpiling dry powder

Yes. Unfortunately you can still use dry powder to fill gaping holes.

[boatshed bill]

I really don’t struggle at all.

My overriding point still stands. Wasted cash when we needed upgrades/better depth elsewhere

Wasted cash? Depends on how thing pan out.

[boyyanno]

Saying we should be a big player in this league because one summer of spend is just completely ignoring the facts of our own financial transformation and that of all the other clubs too.
There are too many examples of clubs spending more than us and still struggling to lift but a few recent ones where clubs either got relegated or very nearly did include Fulham, Forest and Sheffield United.
How many of those clubs in the season prior to spending a £100m plus lost their best players ?
How many of those clubs in the season before reduced their wage bill by anywhere near the amount we did ?

I know when it comes to Burnley there is a myopic view from some fans but you have to look at what other clubs have done as everything is relative in the premier league.
There is no doubt about it that the league is changing very quickly in terms of the wealth of the big 7 or 8 clubs, the wealth of the next 6 or 7 clubs and then those few left which are fallen further and further behind and will often be left scrapping our relegation.
Of course there’s always the odd exception and we have been one under Dyche but the exceptions are becoming fewer and the gap bigger.

Spending £100m in one transfer window may seem astronomical for Burnley - but it’s nothing now in this league and especially when so little has been spent in previous years.

It’s the first old Harry Redknapp transfer strategy for most clubs - if you throw enough cash at it 1 out of every players you but might turn out good !! As a club that won’t work for us so if we have got it wrong this window it’s going to be hard (oh and being relegation does not equate to getting it wrong if we go back up next years and the players develop)

I've seen you post the same stuff on multiple threads and I find your logic flawed. When asked how we will be financially okay you produce the reduced wage bill as evidence and the fact we made money due to player sales.

How can you then say relegation wouldn't be a failure if those players will develop and get us back up? How on earth can players that have been sold to reduce the wage bill and bring money into the club develop and play for us on the pitch?

We would have to do the same as this year, reinvest the money and hope we go up first time of asking, which is a gamble. So we'd have a different team again, and no experience that we had last year. It wouldn't put us further forwards, at best it puts us back to square one.

How can you honestly believe otherwise?

[CoolClaret]

I've seen you post the same stuff on multiple threads and I find your logic flawed. When asked how we will be financially okay you produce the reduced wage bill as evidence and the fact we made money due to player sales.

Worth mentioning that the players that we did make a few quid on (Wood, McNeil, Cornet, Pope, Collins) also had shown a lot more than our current crop have done (Foster aside) in the same league.

That can obviously change but I wouldn’t see many going for much more than we paid for them.

[brexit]

I find it strange that posters on this board always judge players instead of focusing on the manager. When I put together the team for the EU JCU, I was given a set of goals. I then made a project that would meet those goals. I then agreed to it with the commission. Not only that, but I then recruited the team to do it. We met the deadline in June, the only bad thing was that I had to leave Strasbourg and go to expensive Brussels, but I got a pay rise and an increased living allowance.
Many of the posters on here will recognise this process. Some people won't because of politics, work history, or a strong belief in their own opinions.
Tresor was bought to fit into a system, and that system doesn't seem to be working right now. A good manager (in any business) realises the plan comes first, and then you fit the personnel in.
An effective manager will adjust the plan to fit the circumstances. Inflexible managers are fired if they don't achieve the objectives.
My only question is: What goals has VK been set for this year? EPL survival or squad resale value increase? Does one require the other?

[boatshed bill]

Worth mentioning that the players that we did make a few quid on (Wood, McNeil, Cornet, Pope, Collins) also had shown a lot more than our current crop have done (Foster aside) in the same league.

That can obviously change but I wouldn’t see many going for much more than we paid for them.

Cornet and Collins?
I don't think they did much.

[boyyanno]

Worth mentioning that the players that we did make a few quid on (Wood, McNeil, Cornet, Pope, Collins) also had shown a lot more than our current crop have done (Foster aside) in the same league.

That can obviously change but I wouldn’t see many going for much more than we paid for them.

I'm in agreement with that and I'd also add that people seem to forget we accrued some of those players over a few years in the PL, so last year was in part built off a base of previous success.

Currently I can only say that Koleosho and Foster have increased in value this season. Koleosho because he cost very little and Foster because he has playing well and scoring.

You have to wonder if other PL clubs would be interested in the players we have for the price we paid for them, I can't think of many that will retain their value if we go down. We found it easy to reduce the wage bill and bring money in last time for the reasons you've said above.

The bottom line is if we go back down we will have to sell, no matter what revenue is generated we would still have to get a new set of players and try again, that's not progress in my eyes.

Alternatively if we keep the same group and they do all improve and we go back up then great, but you'd have to be a massively optimistic to think this will be the case.

[CoolClaret]

Cornet and Collins?
I don't think they did much.

Cornet bagged 9 in 26 and was basically the only bright spark of a full season - some absolutely top class goals.

Collins though some costly mistakes levels above anything that we’ve seen from our centre halves other than Beyer this season.

[boyyanno]

Cornet and Collins?
I don't think they did much.

Cornet didn't do much, I've heard it all!

[CoolClaret]

I'm in agreement with that and I'd also add that people seem to forget we accrued some of those players over a few years in the PL, so last year was in part built off a base of previous success.

Currently I can only say that Koleosho and Foster have increased in value this season. Koleosho because he cost very little and Foster because he has playing well and scoring.

You have to wonder if other PL clubs would be interested in the players we have for the price we paid for them, I can't think of many that will retain their value if we go down. We found it easy to reduce the wage bill and bring money in last time for the reasons you've said above.

The bottom line is if we go back down we will have to sell, no matter what revenue is generated we would still have to get a new set of players and try again, that's not progress in my eyes.

Alternatively if we keep the same group and they do all improve and we go back up then great, but you'd have to be a massively optimistic to think this will be the case.

I agree - last season was absolutely built on the back of the previous regime’s sustained period in the top flight. No question about it.

It’s a shame that Garlick started withdrawing investment and it’s a damned shame that we had the leveraged buyout because we’d be further ahead now if Garlick maybe brought in one or two more players and if we didn’t have money taken out of the club in the way it has been. That’s done now so it is what it is.

Agreed on Koleosho & Foster - you could say the same about Manuel Benson and Zaroury despite not seeing much of them this year.

Going down given these circumstances is going backwards to me at worst, or at best back to the end of the 2022 season.

Players would have to go to facilitate our decreased revenue and we still have transfers to pay off.

So we would absolutely have to reload - could it be done again? Maybe… it’s not as simple as some are making out though.

[CoolClaret]

Cornet didn't do much, I've heard it all!

‘Cornet didn’t do much’ but we’re gonna somehow recoup full outlay for rotation wingers that have (so far) done the square root of f all in the PL

[boatshed bill]

Cornet didn't do much, I've heard it all!

Missed a sitter and a penalty which probably would have kept us up had he scored.

[boyyanno]

I agree - last season was absolutely built on the back of the previous regime’s sustained period in the top flight. No question about it.

It’s a shame that Garlick started withdrawing investment and it’s a damned shame that we had the leveraged buyout because we’d be further ahead now if Garlick maybe brought in one or two more players and if we didn’t have money taken out of the club in the way it has been. That’s done now so it is what it is.

Agreed on Koleosho & Foster - you could say the same about Manuel Benson and Zaroury despite not seeing much of them this year.

Going down given these circumstances is going backwards to me at worst, or at best back to the end of the 2022 season.

Players would have to go to facilitate our decreased revenue and we still have transfers to pay off.

So we would absolutely have to reload - could it be done again? Maybe… it’s not as simple as some are making out though.

Yep agree about Garlick, in terms of sustainability we absolutely peaked whilst still under his tenure and in the PL and in terms of business I believe there is a point where you have to try and grow or risk going backwards- Garlick decided to get out which is fair enough but had we used some of the clubs funds, and possibly even waded into getting (and maintaining) a bit of debt I think we could have maybe pushed on another gear while continuing to run the club in a sustainable way. But yep sadly not to be.

I agree. I think we've become accustomed (as a fan base) to good times, and what we've achieved over a long period of time for a club our size is a massive achievement, I don't think we will keep going down and coming back up first time of asking- no one does it three times on the spin as do they? But it feels like that's what a lot expect to happen in the event of relegation. I don't want to "doom monger" I just think its fair to add balance to the people who insist it will be all roses if we go down.

[boyyanno]

Missed a sitter and a penalty which probably would have kept us up had he scored.

Aye that cancels out those 9 bangers, 3-2 winners and point rescuers then.

[CoolClaret]

Aye that cancels out those 9 bangers, 3-2 winners and point rescuers then.

I guess that’s Koleosho done for then after missing an open net. No more profit there

[Luppy]

I’m sure he will come good - but right now, the money we have shelled out for him and Ramsey make the decision not to sign Tella ever more bizarre.

[boatshed bill]

Aye that cancels out those 9 bangers, 3-2 winners and point rescuers then.

I don't really care what you think about him, or my opinion of him.
I obviously didn't rate him as highly as you did.

[Jakubclaret]

Worth mentioning that the players that we did make a few quid on (Wood, McNeil, Cornet, Pope, Collins) also had shown a lot more than our current crop have done (Foster aside) in the same league.

That can obviously change but I wouldn’t see many going for much more than we paid for them.

I'd go as far as saying based on current form we would actually be selling them on at a loss nevermind making.

[Big Vinny K]

Not sure what you are referring to.
I’m saying that the reduced wage bill achieved last year is potentially a big reason why we could afford to spend the money we did last summer (assuming the £100m is paid over 3 or 4 years).
I’m also saying that our finances were helped by the positive net transfer business in VK’s first season.

Points being - we probably can’t spend this amount of money every year !
And we probably could afford to be relegated but would need to be promoted at first attempt (or sell players if we were not)
The rest of my post was about how crazy the premier league has become in terms of what every club are spending with £100m being normal to most other clubs (but astronomical to us)…..so it’s more important to us that we get our transfers correct than other teams and we do not have owners who will just subsidise big losses when they get their transfers wrong.

[Elizabeth]

If it's the case we are buying this player he'll need to show more than he's shown so far. Preferably this season when we need every player to improve on what they've done so far

[StayingDown4Ever]

Ramsey, Trafford and Tresor for £50,000,000.