Has VK Lost the dressing room?

[daveisaclaret]

101 points last season, instant promotion back to the top flight and the fans have turned in November despite being out in your thousands outside the town hall celebrating VK in May. But the saviour got all the time in the world while signing Will Norris and Dale Stephens, one of the worst fanbases in the country Burnley.

I would think that standing with the manager while our signings were Norris and Stephens would indicate the fanbase is loyal rather than one of the worst in the country

[jedi_master]

I can smell this turning into another anti-Dyche thread.

You'd have thought after tonight of all bloody nights that this bizarre sub-culture that exists on this forum would be silent, but no, they're instead criticising him for spending (let me see...), £750,000 total on two backup players who played less than 10 games in the league for us between them. Whether he wanted them for his entire tenure is utterly irrelevant! He tried to sign Stephens initially when he would have been a really good player for us, as he went on to prove for Brighton in the period in this league before we signed him. He came as a backup midfielder who was lucky if he made the bench, hardly worthy of scorn being poured on the manager. Pour it on Mike Garlick who gave the manager **** all transfer budget so that he could fatten the goose and flog the club to Pace.

It's almost becoming like a political alignment this with the sides. Just like politics, I try to see things from a subjective view and can analyse that both Dyche and Kompany have done a superb job for us - one at this stage more than the other overall due to his time at the club and RIDICULOUS achievements in lieu of finance. Some are just too entrenched in their view to ever see things clearly, or give respect where it is due.

Wish we could all just chill the **** out with this point scoring and segmentation between the fanbase. It saddens me - things are crap enough right now without all that too. Moving on....

[SGr]

If you think Dyche dictated how much to spend in a window then let’s not bother.

Wildly known he was at loggerheads with Garlick for these exact reasons

Garlick not signing the players was the primary issue.

But Dyche wanted bad footballers.

Both can be true at the same time.

[Milltown1882]

I would think that standing with the manager while our signings were Norris and Stephens would indicate the fanbase is loyal rather than one of the worst in the country

VK was in the council building in May saying we’ll need your support now more than ever. Fast forward the clock that’s going well.

[agreenwood]

I get the impression that some of you are almost willing him to get the sack. From Town Hall hero to the town pariah in a matter of months. What a fickle bunch of embarrassing plastics we have become.

There’s definitely a clear distinction for me between those expressing genuine concern or disappointment and those mainly just revelling in the misery of it all. I’ve just figured out that the biggest whopper on here is also the same whopper who has negative tourettes over on Twitter.

[Blatherwickstattoo]

Before I answer the question, what does “lost the dressing room” mean?

Are we talking about the players not liking VK? Not respecting him? Not believing in his methods?

And if we are talking about any of the above, is the logical extension that it’s impacting their performance or effort levels to the extent that they’d torpedo their own progress or finances in pursuit of seeing him sacked?

I ask all of the above in the context that not very long ago several of the existing squad were very complimentary about VK & his staff’s approach and a regular theme when we sign players is how impressive a character he is to deal with. Has all that changed for the majority of the “dressing room” with less than a third of the season played?

Just wondering if the wholesale changes to the squad has created a friction within the dressing room thats all. It’s a massive part of success or failure in elite sports. If you upset a few then groups form . Standards drop and inevitably results are worse. I’ve played football at a far lower level and I got promoted one season, they brought in players who they thought were better the season after and it all went tits up.

Just curious as if this is the case we are witnessing

[Conroy92]

The Championship winning team has been dismantled right in front of our eyes and replaced with what I fear are young potential players who fit our business model rather than our imminent football requirements..

This is the season summed up

[Bordeauxclaret]

There’s definitely a clear distinction for me between those expressing genuine concern or disappointment and those mainly just revelling in the misery of it all. I’ve just figured out that the biggest whopper on here is also the same whopper who has negative tourettes over on Twitter.

That’s very true. It’s depressing being a claret at the moment and people are searching for answers but there are some that absolutely revel in it and have done all season.

[Jakubclaret]

Before I answer the question, what does “lost the dressing room” mean?

Are we talking about the players not liking VK? Not respecting him? Not believing in his methods?

And if we are talking about any of the above, is the logical extension that it’s impacting their performance or effort levels to the extent that they’d torpedo their own progress or finances in pursuit of seeing him sacked?

I ask all of the above in the context that not very long ago several of the existing squad were very complimentary about VK & his staff’s approach and a regular theme when we sign players is how impressive a character he is to deal with. Has all that changed for the majority of the “dressing room” with less than a third of the season played?

Things have changed very rapidly part of the nucleus that contributed to our success last season have left & new players have arrived. It’s not difficult to imagine (without proof) that not everybody gets on. It’s an exaggeration to conjure up the scenarios that you have listed because it wouldn’t really jeopardise (not in their mindset) the players futures as there are contracted, oddly enough you could raise the counter argument that their situations would improve forcing kompany out if that’s the intention because right now the evidence in front of our eyes cuts 1 of stagnation & regression.

[CoolClaret]

Garlick not signing the players was the primary issue.

But Dyche wanted bad footballers.

Both can be true at the same time.

Not sure if you’re aware but you can’t really get top PL players for 750 grand mate

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

I think he has lost himself inbetween buying players for the future and some weird trading system with pace and going on about having a £100m footballer on his hands.

Better to keep quiet before we have achieved anything like that I would have thought.

Too many luxury players in the lineup for me that aren’t putting a shift in.

[agreenwood]

Just wondering if the wholesale changes to the squad has created a friction within the dressing room thats all. It’s a massive part of success or failure in elite sports. If you upset a few then groups form . Standards drop and inevitably results are worse. I’ve played football at a far lower level and I got promoted one season, they brought in players who they thought were better the season after and it all went tits up.

Just curious as if this is the case we are witnessing

It comes down to belief. If most of the players and coaching staff believe they’ve got a decent chance of improving and collecting more points, he’s not lost the dressing room.

I think there’s a difference between things not going well and someone having genuinely “lost” the players. The latter implies a sense of permanency that they can’t/wont recover from. It also has implications for all the players who will likely be taking pay cuts and seeing their own development stifled.

If there is such a thing as losing a dressing room i suspect it’s far more likely to happen with a manager who comes in without the right reputation or to replace a popular leader. For Kompany to lose a dressing room after 10 games with a squad he’s either just got promoted with or persuaded to join us, seems very unlikely.

[KRBFC]

Fans are willing us to lose to say “I told you so” on here. It’s sad that fans are split, some don’t want to give the project time because they’ve already made their stance clear and don’t want to be wrong.

It’s clearly a long term project, we might get relegated but we’ll be in a position to bounce back. Seriously which manager is turning a back four of Delcroix AAD Dara Vitinho into a PL level one? It’s a defence that is not good enough.

[KRBFC]

There was only one way to find out if Cullen AAD were good enough for this level, we’re finding out the hard way unfortunately.

[SGr]

Not sure if you’re aware but you can’t really get top PL players for 750 grand mate

European football. Asked the owner to sign Sam Clucas. Owner couldn’t even do it.

Bad combo.

[Blatherwickstattoo]

It comes down to belief. If most of the players and coaching staff believe they’ve got a decent chance of improving and collecting more points, he’s not lost the dressing room.

I think there’s a difference between things not going well and someone having genuinely “lost” the players. The latter implies a sense of permanency that they can’t/wont recover from. It also has implications for all the players who will likely be taking pay cuts and seeing their own development stifled.

If there is such a thing as losing a dressing room i suspect it’s far more likely to happen with a manager who comes in without the right reputation or to replace a popular leader. For Kompany to lose a dressing room after 10 games with a squad he’s either just got promoted with or persuaded to join us, seems very unlikely.

I understand your angle on it but I’m talking more
about losing the ethos of the dressing room and its character . Not necessarily individual players and players not liking VK.

[jedi_master]

There was only one way to find out if Cullen AAD were good enough for this level, we’re finding out the hard way unfortunately.

Sadly agree on Cullen - and I was his biggest fan last season.

Al-Dakhil though, I disagree. I think he’s just utterly shot for confidence and should not be starting. Still a player there IMO, I think in a team with its chests puffed out he would look a different proposition. Worth persevering with IMO, just…not in the first eleven right now.

[KRBFC]

Sadly agree on Cullen - and I was his biggest fan last season.

Al-Dakhil though, I disagree. I think he’s just utterly shot for confidence and should not be starting. Still a player there IMO, I think in a team with its chests puffed out he would look a different proposition. Worth persevering with IMO, just…not in the first eleven right now.

I agree with you about AAD, huge potential still but he’s just not ready but we have no other option so he’s left exposed.

[IAmAClaret]

Al-Dakhil has never recovered from the game where he played right back and Roberts, inexplicably, played left back (with Taylor on the bench). Another mind boggling 11, which didn't work.

But, he played all the big games last season, and looked very promising. Selected in the recent Belgian squad too. Needs time out.

[Burnley1989]

Write the season off now, but VK should still be at the helm next season.

I agree fully, let him learn. The grass isn’t always greener, tbf, I hate the premier league anyway

[spt_claret]

101 points last season, instant promotion back to the top flight and the fans have turned in November despite being out in your thousands outside the town hall celebrating VK in May. But the saviour got all the time in the world while signing Will Norris and Dale Stephens, one of the worst fanbases in the country Burnley.

Norris didn't play, Stephens was a 2 year two late signing made by Garlick as a spite move and we had people calling Dyche out after every loss even after we made Europe. But aye he got all the time in the world.

I'm not even calling for Kompanys head but **** me there's been desperate revisionism about the Dyche era in every aspect possible to try fluff things since.

[lucs86]

If he keeps sending them out to play the same way every week then it won't be long til he he's lost the dressing room. All these ambitious young players we've brought in are here to use us as a stepping stone, if we continue to play this toothless, no shots, no excitement style that's making all of them (bar none) look crap they're going to check out.
VK keeps talking about not changing style, on the evidence of the last fortnight he absolutely needs to. Even with Beyer, Ekdal, Muric in the side no-one in the PL is going to let Roberts, Taylor, Cullen, Brownhill stroke it around while we decide whether or not to attack.
We need to be ugly, play direct, battle, stay in games. Foster and Berge are good enough out balls from defence. Brownhill is decent for picking up second balls. The wingers and Berge have enough talent for the odd bit of magic. The defence can play compact.
IF we get 2 fullbacks and a CM in January then maybe we can try the possession game again, but it's utterly pointless at this stage, the available players don't have the required attributes.

[ervi34]

We will take a hit this season and come back up.
And be better for it.
As it is, well have to put up with more and more "fans" on here chucking their toys out of the pram for a few more months yet.

I'm sorry but where's the correlation between your sentence and the original post? I definitely think Kompany still has some credit in the bank but to say that we will take a hit after spending 100 million only to become worse is not really acceptable to me.

I also can't believe people are comparing this season to Dyche's first PL season. He spent peanuts and still nearly managed to stay up while we were destined to go down from the start. At least players put an effort in every single game which unfortunately can't be said today.

[Wile E Coyote]

my guess is he probably has THE most unified changing room anywhere.
This is a manager that has won his stripes against the best for numerous seasons. VK is a tough nut, the very idea that his players can't , or will not buy into that is ludicrous.

[mybloodisclaret]

No, he hasn't lost the dressing room, nor should he lose our support. The man is a winner with a philosophy and a very young squad.

It is very hard at the moment, but I think the players are still with him.

As fans we really need to be. We can sort this out.

[Enola Gay]

I feel like I've lost the team a little too. Without being ridiculed let me explain. Last year the connection between the players and the fans was incredible, led by loan players giving their all for the shirt..last minute winners, never say die attitude, straining every last sinew for the cause and clearly loving every minute. You could pick the side pretty much, and consistency both with selection and performance was there.

This year is the polar opposite. Yes it's easier when you're winning obviously, and playing in a lesser division but I feel the vast majority of these players just don't have last year's spirit. As has been mentioned THB's no nonsense defending, Tella's pace and infectious enthusiasm, Barnes love for the club, his spirit and experience has all gone.

The Championship winning team has been dismantled right in front of our eyes and replaced with what I fear are young potential players who fit our business model rather than our imminent football requirements..

As a Clarets fan for 40 years I'll be giving everything to get behind the team on Saturday, as I'm sure the vast majority of fellow clarets will, but deep down that nagging feeling of a lot of wasted hard work is still there...

Yep, this. Absolutely, 100% this.

[Enola Gay]

Fans are willing us to lose to say “I told you so” on here. It’s sad that fans are split, some don’t want to give the project time because they’ve already made their stance clear and don’t want to be wrong.

It’s clearly a long term project, we might get relegated but we’ll be in a position to bounce back. Seriously which manager is turning a back four of Delcroix AAD Dara Vitinho into a PL level one? It’s a defence that is not good enough.

If that back four isn’t a PL level one that’s on Kompany. He signed all four, two of them this summer when we’d already been promoted. If he can’t get a tune out of them at this level why the hell should anyone else be expected to?

As good as he was last season, this one has been a shambles, and that’s as much on Kompany as last season’s success was.

[Woodleyclaret]

Time for us to back VK not slag him off injuries to Benny .Beyer and Ekdal have not helped
Why anyone thought our team without Tella, Maatsen and THB would walk the Premier league is beyond fantasy. When I sang " we'll support you ever more I meant it' OK it's annoying and frustrating that we are not battering teams like we did last year. But turn up and back the lads UTC

[Vegas Claret]

find me an interview, or a passage of play that shows that VK has lost the dressing room.

[KRBFC]

If that back four isn’t a PL level one that’s on Kompany. He signed all four, two of them this summer when we’d already been promoted. If he can’t get a tune out of them at this level why the hell should anyone else be expected to?

As good as he was last season, this one has been a shambles, and that’s as much on Kompany as last season’s success was.

He wasn’t to know AAD wasn’t ready for this level and Vitinho isn’t good enough, there was only one way to find out.

As for Delcroix well he’s clearly been signed as cover.

Our second choice back four isn’t good enough when all playing at the same time, that’s not VKs fault, that’s to be expected.

[JohnMcGreal]

We will take a hit this season and come back up.
And be better for it.
As it is, well have to put up with more and more "fans" on here chucking their toys out of the pram for a few more months yet.

I think that's a completely unrealistic expectation, and doesn't take into account just how bad and how toxic it could get this season. We've got a long, long way to go yet.

You have to wonder just how damaging an entire season of getting taken apart like this every week will be to our chances next season.

There's no guarantee these young players will just be able to brush it off like it never happened and then storm the Championship. It could be an absolute disaster, confidence-wise.

[Carwin261]

He can pick any 11 he wants and we’ll still struggle due to the absolute shortage of any physicality in the team ,he could be sacked this morning and unless we can find a couple of Joey Barton type players in midfield no manager is going to improve our ball playing lightweights.

[Newcastleclaret93]

He wasn’t to know AAD wasn’t ready for this level and Vitinho isn’t good enough, there was only one way to find out.

As for Delcroix well he’s clearly been signed as cover.

Our second choice back four isn’t good enough when all playing at the same time, that’s not VKs fault, that’s to be expected.

VK is the one that has decided to play this system when only them players are available.

A good manager change his tactics to protect the weak areas across the team.

I’m sorry but what ever way you spin it this is solely on VK

[KRBFC]

VK is the one that has decided to play this system when only them players are available.

A good manager change his tactics to protect the weak areas across the team.

I’m sorry but what ever way you spin it this is solely on VK

Changes tactics to what exactly? And with who?

Change all you want a defence of Vitinho AAD Dara Delcroix is getting torn to shreds and exposed at this level. It’s simply not good enough.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Changes tactics to what exactly? And with who?

Change all you want a defence of Vitinho AAD Dara Delcroix is getting torn to shreds and exposed at this level. It’s simply not good enough.

If they’re not good enough why did VK sign them?

3 of them signings specifically mentioned VK as the reason they signed.

From a tactical point of view, why couldn’t he have gone 5 at the back and played cork and cullen sitting in front of them? Anything to sure that back line up would have been better than leaving them exposed again

[KRBFC]

If they’re not good enough why did VK sign them?

3 of them signings specifically mentioned VK as the reason they signed.

From a tactical point of view, why couldn’t he have gone 5 at the back and played cork and cullen sitting in front of them? Anything to sure that back line up would have been better than leaving them exposed again

VK signed them as cover, not to all play at once. It’s like playing 4 Kevin Longs at once, you can get away with 1 if he’s next to Mee.

Cullen and Berge were sat infront of the back four, Cullens also struggling.

[Newcastleclaret93]

VK signed them as cover, not to all play at once. It’s like playing 4 Kevin Longs at once, you can get away with 1 if he’s next to Mee.

Cullen and Berge were sat infront of the back four, Cullens also struggling.

He specifically said that O’Shea was going to be good enough for a top 6 team.

Why’s he saying that about a reserve?

[daveisaclaret]

We signed O'Shea for £7 million 5 months ago and it's somehow a defence of VK to say he's not good enough and basically a Kevin Long. Mad that

[jrgbfc]

He wasn’t to know AAD wasn’t ready for this level and Vitinho isn’t good enough, there was only one way to find out.

As for Delcroix well he’s clearly been signed as cover.

Our second choice back four isn’t good enough when all playing at the same time, that’s not VKs fault, that’s to be expected.

Tbf Vitinho was average in the league below. Most people on here could have predicted if he was starting games for us at this level we'd be in trouble.

[bfcjg]

I posted after the Bournemouth debacle that I think there is a schism between last seasons players and the new signings who are obviously getting preferential treatment. VK and Bellamy have a massive job now to build a better team spirit.

[RicardoMontalban]

I posted after the Bournemouth debacle that I think there is a schism between last seasons players and the new signings who are obviously getting preferential treatment. VK and Bellamy have a massive job now to build a better team spirit.

I guess the question here is, of last season’s players that are available, or at least have been consistently, who do we think are the players that are missing out?

Muric is an obvious one and has been done to death. Zaroury? Picked up that red which probably knocked him down the pecking order. Has featured more in recent weeks but hasn’t looked any better.

Other than that I’m struggling to think who has been cast aside that realistically should be in the starting 11.

[jlup1980]

Without being in the dressing room nobody can answer this question with any accuracy.

What I will say is that the lack of leaders, experience and know how is telling on the pitch. The players heads drop the second we go two behind in every single game. The decision to release Barnes, not play Cork and not sign many players over the age of 23 or so appears a massive, possibly irredeemable error by the club. I say club as opposed to Kompany, as this is partly borne from Pace's strategy of wanting to flip for profit.

Kompany has a job till he decides to leave if it was up to me, relegation or not. I said the same for Dyche. I doubt Pace will feel the same way sadly, as he has already shown he will not remain patient if relegation is on the horizon.

The lack of leaders is stark. We've gone from Dyche signing men to Kompany signing boys and its showing.

[Blatherwickstattoo]

How much of a catalyst was Ashley Barnes last season? He set the standard and showed the newer players what it meant to play for this club.

[KRBFC]

Tbf Vitinho was average in the league below. Most people on here could have predicted if he was starting games for us at this level we'd be in trouble.

Tell Conor Roberts not to be an idiot and get sent off then we won’t need to see Vitinho at right back.

[Pickles]

Tell Conor Roberts not to be an idiot and get sent off then we won’t need to see Vitinho at right back.

The whole season with just one right back then? Another position overlooked in the summer.

[KRBFC]

We signed O'Shea for £7 million 5 months ago and it's somehow a defence of VK to say he's not good enough and basically a Kevin Long. Mad that

The defence combined cost less than £10m and it shows. Dara might come good but not in a makeshift back four like last night. Not a single one of those four gets into our strongest possible back four, combined it’s a nightmare.

[KRBFC]

The whole season with just one right back then? Another position overlooked in the summer.

Agreed

[Terry Cochrane]

It is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL we keep VK. What keeping SD on after relegation last time taught us is that continuity brings its rewards.

[KRBFC]

He specifically said that O’Shea was going to be good enough for a top 6 team.

Why’s he saying that about a reserve?

He might be, I think Al Dakhil has a bright future too, he just isn’t there yet and shouldn’t be starting games week in week out. We just haven’t got anyone else atm

[Jakubclaret]

You haven't a clue about anything, Jakub.
Shut up.

I know far more than you realise.