Today’s football 5.11

[Newcastleclaret93]

Luton 0.9 xG v 3.6 Liverpool. Absolute battering, as a wise man told me when using this data post our Villa defeat. Luton very lucky to get a point.

Standard RV haha

[Rileybobs]

Luton 0.9 xG v 3.6 Liverpool. Absolute battering, as a wise man told me when using this data post our Villa defeat. Luton very lucky to get a point.

You’re obsessed with finding meaningless statistics to prove a point. Liverpool had enough good chances to win the game, of course they did. But Luton weren’t absolutely battered. They performed well and weren’t lucky to draw the game. Fortunately games aren’t decided on xG, even more so in our case!

[Boss Hogg]

Luton did well. Enjoyed watching that more than the last home game I attended. Plenty of fight, resilience and experience. Good young manager who always speaks well

[SalisburyClaret]

They created some good stuff. One major difference between Luton and ourselves is that to a man they looked up for the challenge.

There’s something in that. We put in a lot of effort but there’s no leadership to guide it

[Buxtonclaret]

Wow!
What the FA Cup is all about.
The Paper Boys get a replay!

[Swizzlestick]

Having just watched Luton get a draw against Liverpool, I am wondering to myself would their manager want Kolosheo, Amdouni, Odobert, Ramsey, Massinga, Ramsey, Delcroix, O'Shea, Berge or any other of our Summer signings in his starting eleven?

That's weird, because Koleosho, Amdouni and Berge all started in the team that beat Luton.

Christ knows how you can make such a snap judgement about Massengo who you haven't even seen play, but this is where some of our fanbase is at currently.

[Vino blanco]

That's weird, because Koleosho, Amdouni and Berge all started in the team that beat Luton.

Christ knows how you can make such a snap judgement about Massengo who you haven't even seen play, but this is where some of our fanbase is at currently.

The point I was thinking in my own mind is that Luton play in an organised, more physical way compared to us: which is going to prove most successful in the PL Luton's strategy or ours?

[Swizzlestick]

The point I was thinking in my own mind is that Luton play in an organised, more physical way compared to us: which is going to prove most successful in the PL Luton's strategy or ours?

I've no idea, but when we played them with our so-called inferior tactical setup and bunch of weaklings, we conspired to beat them. We're in a disappointing run, everybody can see that, but the speed in which some have dumped on this squad has been revealing to say the least.

[scouseclaret]

The issue for me is that we’ve done that. Been there, got the T shirt. Actually became the team renowned for all those characteristics you describe. We had some great performances and results. But went down ultimately. And let’s not glorify it; defending for 90 minutes and nicking a goal was ****e to watch, even when the result went our way.

And although we hit 7th & 10th in general we were scrapping it out at the bottom like we are now.

What we’re trying to achieve with this team is completely different. We’re trying to create a team of high technical ability that can play football, rather than defend. We’re buying young players we see as having high potential and the ability to become top players on the world stage vs ageing pro’s. We’re playing a style that is good to watch, not just about stopping the opponents scoring.

I am not a “happy clapper”. I don’t see our football as perfect. We are terrible at many things and I’d prefer more variety in our play. But what Kompany is trying to implement is a completely different plan. Completely different. So trying to compare us with Luton, who are on different paths, is futile.

Luton may stay up this season. We may not. But I’d bet Luton won’t be here for long and IF we stay up, we’ll be a completely different prospect next year. Whereas Luton will be exactly the same.

Offer me another 6 consecutive seasons in the PL and two top ten finishes now and I’ll snap your hand off!

You paint a very rosey picture of how things could be IF we stay up, but at the moment that looks like a pipe-dream and if we go down and stay down it won’t be too long before we’re in financial trouble.

[Silkyskills1]

Our squad is definitely good enough to stay up. We just need to change tactics/style or get a manager that will

What are the tactics we need to employ? You keep mentioning them but don't explain how they operate.

[AGENT_CLARET]

Wow!
What the FA Cup is all about.
The Paper Boys get a replay!

It was a good game, I think the TV people will put the reply on paper view

[AGENT_CLARET]

It was a good game, I think the TV people will put the replay on paper view

Bloody predictive text

[NewClaret]

That all sounds a bit ‘football snob’ to me if I’m honest. I didn’t see Luton defend for 90 minutes and nick a goal, I saw them compete man for man against technically superior players and match them. Luton had 5 shots on target, the same number we managed against Palace. And I wouldn’t say we’re playing a style that’s good to watch, we may be aspiring to do so, but that’s completely different. If I was a Luton fan I’d have been thoroughly entertained by their performance.

Well Liverpool had 74% possession & 24 shots. What I saw was a battering. Albeit all the qualities you mention were in full display, but necessary precisely because they were being battered.

Your point about aspiration is exactly my point. We are aspiring to be a completely different team to Luton. We are on a different plan, a different strategy.

I don’t know whether it’ll work to be honest. I don’t know if it can with our resources. But we’re attempting something different and it’s futile to compare.

What I am not, after all these years supporting Burnley, is a football snob. I applaud Luton for what they’re doing this season, save I do t want to see the be successful at it to our detriment.

There’s different ways to play football. You and I might differ on which we prefer. There’s actually a lot I don’t like about our current style and will bang on about free kicks till I’m blue in the face, but the reality is that our preferences don’t matter because we’re pursuing a totally different approach now that is more about style than just survival.

[NewClaret]

Offer me another 6 consecutive seasons in the PL and two top ten finishes now and I’ll snap your hand off!

You paint a very rosey picture of how things could be IF we stay up, but at the moment that looks like a pipe-dream and if we go down and stay down it won’t be too long before we’re in financial trouble.

I’m not painting any picture. I’m not sure what we’re seeking to achieve is possible, as I’ve said, but what I do think is that if we survive these players/this team has amazing potential given their ages. That’s just common sense because young players get better with age and experience.

But we’ll never see them put in a performance like Luton did tonight because they don’t have the atributes. The athleticism, physicality, strength, etc.

It’s a bit like wishing Beyer would be more like Tarkowski. He’s a very different player and I doubt he’ll ever be as good in the air, at making blocks, etc. But then he’d never make a marauding run with the ball either.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Fortunately games aren’t decided on xG, even more so in our case!

If they were we would now be on 9 pts with wins against Man Utd, Palace and Forest.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

Interesting to note, in the actual football football tonight, Buffalo Bills have a player called Micah Hyde.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Well Liverpool had 74% possession & 24 shots. What I saw was a battering. Albeit all the qualities you mention were in full display, but necessary precisely because they were being battered.

Your point about aspiration is exactly my point. We are aspiring to be a completely different team to Luton. We are on a different plan, a different strategy.

I don’t know whether it’ll work to be honest. I don’t know if it can with our resources. But we’re attempting something different and it’s futile to compare.

What I am not, after all these years supporting Burnley, is a football snob. I applaud Luton for what they’re doing this season, save I do t want to see the be successful at it to our detriment.

There’s different ways to play football. You and I might differ on which we prefer. There’s actually a lot I don’t like about our current style and will bang on about free kicks till I’m blue in the face, but the reality is that our preferences don’t matter because we’re pursuing a totally different approach now that is more about style than just survival.

Our supposed style this season is never going to work at this level.

So the decision looks try to play this style or stay up.

[Jakubclaret]

Our supposed style this season is never going to work at this level.

So the decision looks try to play this style or stay up.

We have the players to implement the style, the fly in the ointment being rest of the league (mostly) have better players to implement their own style & a better plan to counteract/stifle ours. The way he's set his stall out I don't think he's got the players to do it any other way.

[NewClaret]

Our supposed style this season is never going to work at this level.

So the decision looks try to play this style or stay up.

Truth is, I don’t know the answer to that, but I don’t think you do either.

I think there’s games it might’ve been successful without individual errors. And certainly that lack of experience and strength in the side is costing us, so if they were rectified it could be.

Let’s see and discuss it again at the end of the season, but the point I am making here is that VK is pursuing a very different plan and strategy to Luton, who are more using old Burnley as a blueprint.

That might in the short-term prove more successful but I very much doubt that it’ll have anything other than the same outcome as it did for us in the medium-term. Whereas our strategy may not be so successful in the short-term but be more successful beyond it. Or not. Nobody knows, that’s in part the “fun” of watching it play out.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Truth is, I don’t know the answer to that, but I don’t think you do either.

I think there’s games it might’ve been successful without individual errors. And certainly that lack of experience and strength in the side is costing us, so if they were rectified it could be.

Let’s see and discuss it again at the end of the season, but the point I am making here is that VK is pursuing a very different plan and strategy to Luton, who are more using old Burnley as a blueprint.

That might in the short-term prove more successful but I very much doubt that it’ll have anything other than the same outcome as it did for us in the medium-term. Whereas our strategy may not be so successful in the short-term but be more successful beyond it. Or not. Nobody knows, that’s in part the “fun” of watching it play out.

I think there’s plenty of precedents set that this style won’t work.

In fact I can’t think of a single team that has been successful at being promoted and staying up playing our style.

The closest I can think off is Brighton and even they had Burley CBs that weren’t afraid to hoof it.

I think the longer this plays out the bigger our issues become personally. Purely down the fact I just can’t see a way in which this becomes successful (primarily down to resources). I genuinely believe for a system like this to work you need top premier league quality and we just won’t get them in.

[NewClaret]

We have the players to implement the style, the fly in the ointment being rest of the league (mostly) have better players to implement their own style & a better plan to counteract/stifle ours. The way he's set his stall out I don't think he's got the players to do it any other way.

Absolutely agree.

These players are not going to do the job Luton did last night. Credit to Luton, I thought they were great, but our players have come here to approach the game in a certain way and have the attributes to do that.

There’s some reasonable criticism in here of square pegs / round holes, but it’d be the ultimate extreme of that if we tried to go low block with these guys. And probably lead to more terminal issues with everyone wanting out.

We’ve committed to a style with our recruitment and need to see it through. However difficult the journey may be.

[NewClaret]

I think there’s plenty of precedents set that this style won’t work.

In fact I can’t think of a single team that has been successful at being promoted and staying up playing our style.

The closest I can think off is Brighton and even they had Burley CBs that weren’t afraid to hoof it.

I think the longer this plays out the bigger our issues become personally. Purely down the fact I just can’t see a way in which this becomes successful (primarily down to resources). I genuinely believe for a system like this to work you need top premier league quality and we just won’t get them in.

I don’t think that you should assume that because something has not been achieved before, it’s impossible to achieve it in future.

Think you’ve hit the nail on the head with your last line. We’re never going to bring in established Premier League quality. We’re going to have to create it. Which is our exact strategy. That’s what we’re doing with the likes of Koleosho, Amdouni, Foster, Tresor, et al.

They’re not Premier League quality now. They’d never have signed for us if they were. It’s through giving them experience at this level that might make them premier league quality. Then it becomes easier to supplement and bring in/develop others in the same way. I feel sorry for these lads as there’s obviously immense talent there but they’re being asked to find their own way, the hard way.

[Jakubclaret]

Absolutely agree.

These players are not going to do the job Luton did last night. Credit to Luton, I thought they were great, but our players have come here to approach the game in a certain way and have the attributes to do that.

There’s some reasonable criticism in here of square pegs / round holes, but it’d be the ultimate extreme of that if we tried to go low block with these guys. And probably lead to more terminal issues with everyone wanting out.

We’ve committed to a style with our recruitment and need to see it through. However difficult the journey may be.

It's a stark contrast between VK & SD signings & for all the easy on the eye young flair that VK seemingly has brought into the side it isn't effective for the PL whereas with dyche the battle hardened players he recruited were more effective & well drilled for the purpose of the PL. We probably do need to see it through because it's something that's been committed to I don't see it being a success though.