I won't deviate

[StayingDown4Ever]

Utterly embarrassing from him.

Won’t change because he can’t due to wasting £100 million on inadequate trash that’s worse than we had last season.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

I don’t see the sense in having VK and then advocating abandoning a VK way of playing for something like a Chris Wilder way of playing. Now that truly would be a disaster. Like getting Van Gogh and telling him he can’t paint he had to use Photoshop.
We’re so far in that as bad as it’s been, we have to hope it will all click at some point and we’ll win 5 on the bounce and that’ll be enough. VK seems to think that and it’s still a possibility. I’m not necessarily sure I do but my god it’s our only way out at this point. Tearing everything up and starting again just doesn’t make sense.

[Clive 1960]

But he as tinkered with how we play as we saw in the last game and it was better bar the mistakes.

[fungus_the_bogeyman]

I really don’t understand what he’s supposed to have said wrong here. And I’m not sure what people were expecting him to say. It’s almost like some fans are willing him to fail.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I'll try again( God loves a trier). What do you think are our strengths and what 'system' should the manager adopt? Presumably this involves a tactical change or changes. You seem to be the expert on these so any chance you might enlighten us. No hurry, I can ask again next week if you don't know the answer today.

Silky you do realise I am not a professional manager, I am also not getting paid millions of pounds right?

This is literally what VK is paid to do. He is paid to find a system that works.

Not stick with a style that is failing. As mentioned again, we could go down as the worst premier league team in history at this rate and VK is saying he’s not going to change anything.

[Newcastleclaret93]

It's not VK and the players who are bleating about the lows though is it?

By your logic we shouldn’t praise them their successes?

It’s football, they get criticism when they’re **** and praise when they do well.

I don’t get what’s difficult about that

[CoolClaret]

I don’t see the sense in having VK and then advocating abandoning a VK way of playing for something like a Chris Wilder way of playing. Now that truly would be a disaster.

Of course because that's changing formation, system and entire ideology.

All people are saying is that in some instances, taking a slightly less risky option may be more beneficial.

It doesn't require this ginormous change - though probably requires trusting players to use their judgement more than sticking to one rigid way of playing.

Again - it's not a binary option between Allardyche parking the bus route one OR Cruyff's total football

[Newcastleclaret93]

Of course because that's changing formation, system and entire ideology.

All people are saying is that in some instances, taking a slightly less risky option may be more beneficial.

It doesn't require this ginormous change - though probably requires trusting players to use their judgement more than sticking to one rigid way of playing.

Again - it's not a binary option between Allardyche parking the bus route one OR Cruyff's total football

Totally right.

No one is asking VK to completely change his ideology. But clearly he needs to make some changes to the system just to make us at least competitive.

It’s got to start off with shoring up the defence. We won’t get many points conceding 2-3 a game

[Suratclaret]

Didn’t Stan T once say that first you have to learn not to lose, then you learn how to win then you learn how to win well?

[claretonthecoast1882]

I really don’t understand what he’s supposed to have said wrong here. And I’m not sure what people were expecting him to say. It’s almost like some fans are willing him to fail.

Think quite a few on this thread were hoping the manager would be as weak as them whenever things get tough, sadly for them he has a backbone.

[CaptJohn]

A few other posters have commented on how VK and Pace see this as a long term project but the fact remains that last season was a completely unexpected occurence. I doubt that any of us saw it coming and I think it surprised everyone at the club. We weren't supposed to get promotion last year and strangely enough it might have made the plan more difficult in so much as we had more money to play with. I certainly question some of the signings and the fact that we haven't strengthened in key areas, CB being the strangest of all given VK was a dominant CB himself, but I'm willing to give VK and Pace the benefit of the doubt here.

[daveisaclaret]

Odd thread, lots of needlessly strong opinions on both sides.

The first thing to say is that there have been changes this season, lots of them. VK is right to say he's not going completely off road in his response to our awful start but it's not right to say we've played the same way every game - especially considering the best changes were ahead of the latest game where we had our best performance despite being down some key players.

But on the other hand, having a long term plan doesn't mean you don't deviate from it. There's a lot gone wrong this summer and so far this season which our plan will have to adapt to. I have never put much stock in a manager's press conferences because they have little reason to be candid or open about anything and in this case VK is just playing his cards close to his chest. He doesn't achieve anything by saying "we signed too many wingers and my tactics aren't working very well yet" or "I'm making a lot of changes because a best eleven hasn't emerged yet" so why would he say it?

I think we will probably see continued improvement and lessons learned from VK, but that will come with some deviation.

[aggi]

Realistically we don't really have the players to play in any other way.

A mate (spurs fan) asked me the other day if I thought we should stick with Kompany or go back to someone like Dyche. I said that we couldn't play that way, we just don't have the players now.

He's obviously not saying that we're going to keep exactly the same tactics every match. We've seen changes with Taylor coming in, Brownhill playing, where Berge plays, etc but I can't see us deviating too far from that core style (or being able to to be honest). Since he joined us there have been developments to the style and these will continue.

What did people expect him to say? "It's time to press the panic button and completely change our way of playing". When did a manager ever say that?

[Jakubclaret]

Realistically we don't really have the players to play in any other way.

A mate (spurs fan) asked me the other day if I thought we should stick with Kompany or go back to someone like Dyche. I said that we couldn't play that way, we just don't have the players now.

He's obviously not saying that we're going to keep exactly the same tactics every match. We've seen changes with Taylor coming in, Brownhill playing, where Berge plays, etc but I can't see us deviating too far from that core style (or being able to to be honest). Since he joined us there have been developments to the style and these will continue.

What did people expect him to say? "It's time to press the panic button and completely change our way of playing". When did a manager ever say that?

A manager doesn't have to say them exact words but something along the lines of - we are looking at different methods in training to maximize the best possiblity of trying to ensure positive results wouldn't go amiss & perhaps offer some sort of reassurances that the performances aren't satisfactory & it's been addressed, it goes some way further than I'm not changing anything & the results might carry on being crap.

[KRBFC]

Silky you do realise I am not a professional manager, I am also not getting paid millions of pounds right?

This is literally what VK is paid to do. He is paid to find a system that works.

Not stick with a style that is failing. As mentioned again, we could go down as the worst premier league team in history at this rate and VK is saying he’s not going to change anything.

Now you’re just making up b*llocks intentionally, VK has already changed things. The high press, inverted full back is gone. Players have been changed. We’ve dropped deeper at times, we played 5 at the back a couple of times.

Open your eyes it’s not difficult to see.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Now you’re just making up b*llocks intentionally, VK has already changed things. The high press, inverted full back is gone. Players have been changed. We’ve dropped deeper at times, we played 5 at the back a couple of times.

Open your eyes it’s not difficult to see.

Haha I’m making up ********, our own manager is saying he’s not changing anything.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Haha I’m making up ********, our own manager is saying he’s not changing anything.

I take it you think this means he won't make a substitution on Saturday at any stage ?

[DavidEyresLeftFoot]

Complete overreaction. What’s he supposed to say? “Yeah it’s crap we’re going to start smashing it long.” Of course we’re going to keep passing the football. I’m sure VK is already making small adjustments to try and get results. I didn’t think we had such a fickle fan base but the complete 180 from last season is embarrassing.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I take it you think this means he won't make a substitution on Saturday at any stage ?

Haha come on your better than that.

Kompany is referring to tactics not personal

[claretonthecoast1882]

Haha come on your better than that.

Kompany is referring to tactics not personal

He says he won't deviate from the plan, you have took that to mean he won't change anything at all

[taio]

He says he won't deviate from the plan, you have took that to mean he won't change anything at all

Funny how some people interpret and exaggerate things to suit their agenda. Not deviating from the plan doesn't mean adjustments won't be made, as you say. We shouldn't change course - VK should stick to his principles and ethos - so not changing course but instead course correction where it's needed so to speak.

[KRBFC]

Haha I’m making up ********, our own manager is saying he’s not changing anything.

You’re purposely taking his words too literally, he’s already been tweaking and changing things. Open your eyes and use your brain. You don’t even need to know much about football to see we’ve played with 5 defenders and 4 defenders in different games already this season.

[ClaretAL]

Wow some massive over reaction on this thread. I thought we improved against Crystal Palace, and that is with quite a few out. I know some on here thought we were still rubbish but if Roy Hodgson puts his hand up and says we played well and were the better team, with all the experience he has, I'm fairly sure I will take his comments over what some on here think. The fact that we were improved, and the way we played which was slightly different to previous outings, says to me VK is tweaking withing the framework he wants, and that's good enough for me.

[spt_claret]

But he has deviated.
Taylor at left back, Jay up front, Guddy out right.
Either his favoured players aren't ready yet or aren't good enough for these positions.
When he gets the right players in the right positions playing as he wants, then let's see where we are.

This isn't drastic deviation, it's personnel swaps. Look at Saturday. Like for like subs rather than adjustment- could have brought Odobert for JBG, Larsen or Redmond for Jay and tried to hit fast and more direct down both sides, instead we kept on going with the pedestrianism of the 2nd half and half of the 1st.

To be fair, Dyche adopted a much more pragmatic style when the chips were down by prioritising a strong defence and grinding out results. We played with more freedom in many spells throughout his time at Burnley but whenever we found ourselves on a bad run or in relegation trouble he went back to basics and invariably we picked up points.

Spot on, short memories. First promotion season we played some lovely quick-transition attacking or counter-attacking football. Tried to counterpunch in the Prem, went down. Title season we absolutely dominated games with ruthless pressing, teams barely got past the midfield and if they did couldn't pass the defence. We were more reserved and compact in the Prem, season we made Europe we managed to do the press & quick counter play again, after that when money got tight we gradually became more reserved, direct & about physicality.

if he had picked Cork we wouldn't have gone down.

Cork had had a shocking start to the season. He had a few good games, maybe 4 or so, when Dyche did restore him, and got taken back out too quickly I'd agree as there were signs of something with him/Wout/Vydra, but he wasn't our saviour then any more than he is now.

He’s right in that it isn’t style of play that will relegate us - it’s lack of personnel in certain areas.

It can be both. No playing style is perfect all the time, plus we don't have the players to maximise it. If we don't have the players to get the most out of the style we need to play a style to get the most out of the players. And failure to have the players is in part down to whoever greenlit our very imbalanced summer recruitment.

Realistically we don't really have the players to play in any other way.

A mate (spurs fan) asked me the other day if I thought we should stick with Kompany or go back to someone like Dyche. I said that we couldn't play that way, we just don't have the players now.

There's ways to play counter attacking or sacrificing raw possession for directness/efficiency without needing to go full Dyche, we made those tweaks last year on occasion.

Now you’re just making up b*llocks intentionally, VK has already changed things. The high press, inverted full back is gone. Players have been changed. We’ve dropped deeper at times, we played 5 at the back a couple of times.

Open your eyes it’s not difficult to see.

These are tweaks, the reference is in terms to the pass it out, maximise possession philosophy, which worryingly seems to now be "maximise possession at all costs" with how we have this perpetual habit of reverting to cautious own-half short passing especially in the 2nd half. Last season we showed more willingness to abandon this and go direct or risky with balls through or over the top particularly for Tella. We still have pacy players who could theoretically do this but we both aren't selecting the players that would let us do this, and aren't employing this approach. Particularly strange as we're focused on retaining possession and playing it out yet select the more conventional rather than ball-playing keeper (I know, I know, dead horse argument but still). We're doubling down on possession play, rejecting the plan B that worked last year, and yet not selecting a team to maximise this approach even though tactically we're all in on it. Does seem stubborn.

None of this is Kompany Out btw, just saying that we have pace across the front line that screams to me that we could be like Palace of a couple years ago or Leicester, attacking fast with wingers playing direct & aggressive trying to get in behind on both sides and stretching defences with pace & throughballs, accepting the risk of losing the ball for the gain of catching them.Which can actually serve to benefit possession if we're scaring their fullbacks enough to peg them back and limit their midfield support.
We're not a team who can have 60% possession, play the patient, probing, City-style "pull them out of position with steady passing cycles" and win games at this level- the proof is that we're not doing.

[Big Vinny K]

Not really a surprise that comments like this from VK bring out a whole extreme of reactions.

When you see VK in his press conferences or various interviews he has to bite his lip and try and be respectful when he gets asked about his tactics and style of play. He doesn’t resort to the sarcasm of Dyche and tends to answer respectfully that he has several styles of plays and plans which he will adapt within a game depending how the game is going.

What he does do is stick to certain core principles within the game which are clearly being brave on the ball, trusting your team mates and obviously keeping the ball on the floor and starting moves from the back where possible.

The “I won’t deviate” comment as much as some fans would like to think so to suit their agenda is nothing to do with stubbornly sticking with the way we are playing this season. Does VK as a player for City and Belgium look like the kind of person who would be enjoying the results and performances we have had so far this season ?
Not deviating means things like he is always saying - himself and everybody round him working as hard as they can ; developing his players ; trying to find ways to adapt to the league etc etc….and trying to stay true to his principles about how football should be played.

[KRBFC]

We can play it out from the back against certain teams in this league and dominate possession. We’ve dominated the ball and chances against Man United and Palace at home. Putting the ball in the net and winning games is the next step.

We also haven’t played out from the back every game either, we were deep Bournemouth second half and hitting more long balls. Second half at Brentford we changed it up and were the better side until the red card.

We aren’t a million miles away despite the league table and some of the results looking different. We simply didn’t deserve 0 points from United and Palace. Forest away we were robbed 2 points. Bournemouth away we were poor but should’ve took a point, a stupid Vitinho pass/2 VAR decisions go against us. Newcastle away we missed some big chances then got hit with a wonder goal, well in the game with 15 to go, then brainless individual error from AAD takes game away from us. Brentford 2nd half we were finding our feet, well on top, wonder goal and red card throws it away.

Now isn’t the time to panic and completely rip everything up, slight tweaks that VK is making and time will hopefully develop us into the side we can become.

[KRBFC]

Even the Villa home game, we were generally poor but had all the momentum once we scored to make it 1-2. Offside goal kills the game for us at 3-1.

[ClaretAndBlue94]

To be fair, Dyche adopted a much more pragmatic style when the chips were down by prioritising a strong defence and grinding out results. We played with more freedom in many spells throughout his time at Burnley but whenever we found ourselves on a bad run or in relegation trouble he went back to basics and invariably we picked up points.

Very good point.

I wonder if it is easier to allow more freedom, then to have freedom and try and be more pragmatic !

[CoolClaret]

When you see VK in his press conferences or various interviews he has to bite his lip and try and be respectful when he gets asked about his tactics and style of play. He doesn’t resort to the sarcasm of Dyche and tends to answer respectfully that he has several styles of plays and plans which he will adapt within a game depending how the game is going.

Tbf I think he has extremely easy press conferences and when a journo has tried push an angle this year he’s gotten super defensive.

I do think he gets off lightly in the press simply by being VK.

Again I don’t want to be negative it’s not like we’ve just had misfortune it’s been rank bad.

Palace game better - much better.

[Swizzlestick]

Did Dyche ever get a difficult press conference? They're almost always soft ball affairs aren't they?

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

There’s not a lot wrong with the team presently ( and a lot isn’t going right either), just a stubborn refusal to change the most glaring parts of it that aren’t working.

We’re on track to beat the lowest points total in premier league history at the moment so maybe some deviation might be beneficial.

[Big Vinny K]

Tbf I think he has extremely easy press conferences and when a journo has tried push an angle this year he’s gotten super defensive.

I do think he gets off lightly in the press simply by being VK.

Again I don’t want to be negative it’s not like we’ve just had misfortune it’s been rank bad.

Palace game better - much better.

The press conferences are no different under VK as they were under SD in terms of the types of questions asked.
In fact I don’t really see much difference between any of the press conferences in the league.

I don’t think he’s got super defensive at all. I just think with a lot of managers (nearly all of them tbh) they do not particularly like doing the press conferences. At a presentation at the new training ground Dyche was very open to around the 20 of us who were there and chatted to us very informally. He said that people don’t realise that on a press conference day he can be in work as early as 6am and then might get back to his apartment in Whalley at 9pm.
We know that VK works long hours too.
When journalists ask stupid questions it’s not surprising that they might get a bit impatient or sarcastic like Dyche used to. VK is always very respectful from what I have seen but he does not want to get into a too and throw with a journalist quite rightly when they are talking about tactical stuff or individual players.

Dyche was once at a Q & A with fans and one of them raised this issue about why he was bringing everyone back at corners. Dyche answered it respectfully and factually as to why he did this. The fan kept on coming back to him and questioning it. Dyche became less respectful !!

If someone who knows a fraction of what I do in my profession kept on asking the same question and did not accept the answer then it would be hard to stay as calm as a lot of football managers do.

[spt_claret]

We can play it out from the back against certain teams in this league and dominate possession. We’ve dominated the ball and chances against Man United and Palace at home. Putting the ball in the net and winning games is the next step.

We also haven’t played out from the back every game either, we were deep Bournemouth second half and hitting more long balls. Second half at Brentford we changed it up and were the better side until the red card.

We aren’t a million miles away despite the league table and some of the results looking different. We simply didn’t deserve 0 points from United and Palace. Forest away we were robbed 2 points. Bournemouth away we were poor but should’ve took a point, a stupid Vitinho pass/2 VAR decisions go against us. Newcastle away we missed some big chances then got hit with a wonder goal, well in the game with 15 to go, then brainless individual error from AAD takes game away from us. Brentford 2nd half we were finding our feet, well on top, wonder goal and red card throws it away.

Now isn’t the time to panic and completely rip everything up, slight tweaks that VK is making and time will hopefully develop us into the side we can become.

I specified we can't dominate possession and win games. Which we can't, we're not winning. We have 60% possession but are generally over cautious or probe too much. Often when we have mixed it up it's been for short passages of play without actually shifting our setup or personnel beyond like for like swaps. We invariably make mistakes at the back as you mention when doing this possession play, some very costly and sometimes let offs. When we go more direct and risk taking we nearly always look better and given we make costly errors trying to play cautious there's not much to lose given we keep conceding and losing anyway. We've got the attributes for a counter attacking side that shares or even narrowly loses the possession battle, its all well and good wanting to take time but the best way to buy time to learn the style is stay up, gives us 38 more games and a summer.
I can't accept the argument that simultaneously it was wise to radically overhaul the team yet again this summer, that available players is the problem not tactics when the same group decided that imbalanced summer overhaul, and that our tactics are somehow so Byzantine and involved that we have to just keep waiting for it to click like last year when even last year part of what made it click was a greater willingness to mix play. Those three arguments cannot coexist something has to give.

[Casper2]

I know what let’s tell all opposition managers our tactics for the rest of the season, great idea Vinny

[ŽižkovClaret]

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/fo ... rm-4400270
no comment

The irony of the OP, with that username, highlighting someone for sticking with a bad initiative against all reason.........

[gandhisflipflop]

The irony of the OP, with that username, highlighting someone for sticking with a bad initiative against all reason.........

I don’t agree with the OP, but what has his username got to do with anything?

[ŽižkovClaret]

I don’t agree with the OP, but what has his username got to do with anything?

[brexit]

The irony of the OP, with that username, highlighting someone for sticking with a bad initiative against all reason.........

interesting comment from somebody who allegedly lives in Prague 3

[ŽižkovClaret]

interesting comment from somebody who allegedly lives in Prague 3

Nothing alledgedly about it

[Westleigh]

Unfortunately a lot of the changes VK can make are like for like,we’ve no big bruisers to come in and kick lumps out of the opposition.

[Anthonini]

We can play it out from the back against certain teams in this league and dominate possession. We’ve dominated the ball and chances against Man United and Palace at home. Putting the ball in the net and winning games is the next step.

We also haven’t played out from the back every game either, we were deep Bournemouth second half and hitting more long balls. Second half at Brentford we changed it up and were the better side until the red card.

We aren’t a million miles away despite the league table and some of the results looking different. We simply didn’t deserve 0 points from United and Palace. Forest away we were robbed 2 points. Bournemouth away we were poor but should’ve took a point, a stupid Vitinho pass/2 VAR decisions go against us. Newcastle away we missed some big chances then got hit with a wonder goal, well in the game with 15 to go, then brainless individual error from AAD takes game away from us. Brentford 2nd half we were finding our feet, well on top, wonder goal and red card throws it away.

Now isn’t the time to panic and completely rip everything up, slight tweaks that VK is making and time will hopefully develop us into the side we can become.

Exactly this.

[ŽižkovClaret]

Could Roberts do a job in CM / DM at a push? Wouldnt be the 1st RB we've moved into that role?

[aggi]

...

We’re on track to beat the lowest points total in premier league history at the moment so maybe some deviation might be beneficial.

A number of people seem to be saying variations of this/worst team in Premier League history. It's not true at the moment (we're on track for 13+ points) and still wouldn't be true if we get beat by Arsenal.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

A number of people seem to be saying variations of this/worst team in Premier League history. It's not true at the moment (we're on track for 13+ points) and still wouldn't be true if we get beat by Arsenal.

Okay so we might beat the lowest points total by two points. To think then we will walk the championship with a squad who’s confidence will be completely destroyed by that is probably stretching the imagination somewhat.

[Quicknick]

I also think that if we go down, we may not come up. Then what?

[Alan Young]

Thankfully most rational folk won’t feel the need to totally meltdown at VK’s comments and look for every opportunity to criticise.

This board really has been taken over by the same toxic voices. Whether on the wind up or not, it’s tedious.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

I also think that if we go down, we may not come up. Then what?

Pace buys a one way ticket to Acapulco never to be seen again

[ClaretAL]

We can play it out from the back against certain teams in this league and dominate possession. We’ve dominated the ball and chances against Man United and Palace at home. Putting the ball in the net and winning games is the next step.

We also haven’t played out from the back every game either, we were deep Bournemouth second half and hitting more long balls. Second half at Brentford we changed it up and were the better side until the red card.

We aren’t a million miles away despite the league table and some of the results looking different. We simply didn’t deserve 0 points from United and Palace. Forest away we were robbed 2 points. Bournemouth away we were poor but should’ve took a point, a stupid Vitinho pass/2 VAR decisions go against us. Newcastle away we missed some big chances then got hit with a wonder goal, well in the game with 15 to go, then brainless individual error from AAD takes game away from us. Brentford 2nd half we were finding our feet, well on top, wonder goal and red card throws it away.

Now isn’t the time to panic and completely rip everything up, slight tweaks that VK is making and time will hopefully develop us into the side we can become.

Totally agree with this.

[Dark Cloud]

Basically he can't deviate. The players he signed both last season and this summer were all signed to play one way and they actually are playing that way I feel, but unfortunately the other teams in this division are (largely) much better. Are we suddenly going to start playing a hugely physical game and start booting long balls up to a big striker and feeding off the Knock downs? Or sticking over high balls and battering everybody and creating mayhem at set plays and bundling the ball over the line? Not with this squad we're not. The die was cast when VK started and it's been carried through with each new signing and it worked perfectly last season, which led to more of the same, but sadly it's clearly not working this season. He can't change it, but (imo) what he can do is be a bit more "creative" and pragmatic with some of his team selections. Jack Cork HAS to be worth a try in a struggling side, despite being in the twilight of a superb career and so has Muric to name a couple. It might seem like the proverbial shuffling of deck chairs on the Titanic and maybe it is, but by trying different things he doesn't have to abandon all that was brilliant about last season, even if he could.

[gandhisflipflop]

interesting comment from somebody who allegedly lives in Prague 3

This.