Getting promoted too early

[Quickenthetempo]

I keep hearing from fans/read on here that we got promoted too early.

Why do people think this?

I can't think of a single reason.

[KRBFC]

I think getting promoted with loan players is tough, Forest did similar and had to fork out £150m on 20 players.

I know fans like to moan at VK for not signing the loans but he wanted them, Maatsen was so expensive then didn’t want to come and for whatever reason the chairman’s daughter was posting free Tella TikTok’s (I’m not even convinced Tella would have chosen us over Leverkusen).

Then you have to look at the squad, I think a lot of them just aren’t ready for the step up to the PL yet, another year of development in the Championship would’ve been good for a lot of them.

[CoolClaret]

It's a coping mechhanism

There's no such thing - no team that wins the champ with 101 points gets 'promoted too early'

[Jakubclaret]

I think getting promoted with loan players is tough, Forest did similar and had to fork out £150m on 20 players.

I know fans like to moan at VK for not signing the loans but he wanted them, Maatsen was so expensive then didn’t want to come and for whatever reason the chairman’s daughter was posting free Tella TikTok’s (I’m not even convinced Tella would have chosen us over Leverkusen).

Then you have to look at the squad, I think a lot of them just aren’t ready for the step up to the PL yet, another year of development in the Championship would’ve been good for a lot of them.

Well according to some on here tella loved his time here so much it was more or less in the bag & BL came in very late for him so ample opportunity was there before any sort of sniff. We don't know for sure what sort of dialogue (if any) had taken place with southampton securing nathan on a permanent basis, we are assuming a choice existed when only 1 option might have been available to him.

[Quickenthetempo]

I think getting promoted with loan players is tough, Forest did similar and had to fork out £150m on 20 players.

I know fans like to moan at VK for not signing the loans but he wanted them, Maatsen was so expensive then didn’t want to come and for whatever reason the chairman’s daughter was posting free Tella TikTok’s (I’m not even convinced Tella would have chosen us over Leverkusen).

Then you have to look at the squad, I think a lot of them just aren’t ready for the step up to the PL yet, another year of development in the Championship would’ve been good for a lot of them.

It is tough with loan players and there was no way the owners were going to make the same mistake again. Increasing players values for other clubs that is.

I think Vinny would replace all the players regardless, when coming up.

[beddie]

Yes it’s been mentioned a lot. I don’t think there’s ever a right time at our level. It’s all down to recruitment and how or if they can adapt. My own view is that we have a number of talented individuals, some of them need a few seasons at this level, some are simply not good enough. Unfortunately you don’t have time in the PL to bed them in, that along with not knowing your best team is a recipe for the downwood spiral. If the long term plan (5 years) is correct then we stick together and see how it pans out. One thing though a fully fit squad would be of great benefit to VK.

[Stayingup]

No. Its just that the gap between Premier League and Championship is vast. One other thing is, we are not physically strong enough for the league we are in now.

[NewClaret]

It's a coping mechhanism

There's no such thing - no team that wins the champ with 101 points gets 'promoted too early'

I agree with this. We were ready. We won the league below at a canter.

The issues are:

1. We did it with 5 loanee’s. It wasn’t all our team. 3 arguably pivotal players were then too expensive for us/didn’t want to sign. THB is on loan to Soton with a £20m buy clause, we signed O’Shea for £7m; Tella went to Germany for £20m, we signed Tresor for £14m; Maatsen didn’t want to sign for us despite offering €31m total package.

I don’t think you can blame the club for not paying those fees. Tella and Maatsen aren’t really playing for their current clubs and THB went to the champ with no other PL takers. Their fees were very high and while I’d have liked all three I don’t think Maatsen them would’ve helped our defensive frailties at all.

This meant we had a core part of the team to rebuild…

2. We signed talented but inexperienced players. We have amazing talent in our squad, imo, just not enough steel & experience in the core positions - keeper, CH, CM. All rest on Kompany but particularly the keeper situation, where I think promoting a keeper with only league 1 was foolish.

3. We’re playing a style that leaves us very exposed on transition. We were good enough to do it in the Championship, but the Prem is different situation. I remember saying to my son last year leaving multiple close games against teams like Rotherham and Preston, etc that we’d have been annihilated in this league because we gave them chances any Prem team would’ve taken. It’s easy to leave a ground & forget the chances they skied or messed up. I always knew we’d need to get a lot better to do it at this level and thought we would, but I wouldn’t say we have - maybe because we’ve had to bed in a new team.

4. Given that inexperience and style we’re making mistakes and getting punished.

5. I’m not sure the fixtures have been kind to us. In the main, the big boys at home and teams we might hope to be more competitive against away (bar Palace). That’s not an excuse, just unhelpful for confidence and momentum, which are important in sport. And frankly the lads are not receiving the best support from fans we could offer.

Not a coping mechanism for me at all. Just realities.

[RVclaret]

Didn’t Craig Bellamy initiate this during a podcast last season?

[CoolClaret]

I agree with this. We were ready. We won the league below at a canter.

The issues are:

1. We did it with 5 loanee’s. It wasn’t all our team. 3 arguably pivotal players were then too expensive for us/didn’t want to sign. THB is on loan to Soton with a £20m buy clause, we signed O’Shea for £7m; Tella went to Germany for £20m, we signed Tresor for £14m; Maatsen didn’t want to sign for us despite offering €31m total package.

I don’t think you can blame the club for not paying those fees. Tella and Maatsen aren’t really playing for their current clubs and THB went to the champ with no other PL takers. Their fees were very high and while I’d have liked all three I don’t think Maatsen them would’ve helped our defensive frailties at all.

This meant we had a core part of the team to rebuild…

2. We signed talented but inexperienced players. We have amazing talent in our squad, imo, just not enough steel & experience in the core positions - keeper, CH, CM. All rest on Kompany but particularly the keeper situation, where I think promoting a keeper with only league 1 was foolish.

3. We’re playing a style that leaves us very exposed on transition. We were good enough to do it in the Championship, but the Prem is different situation. I remember saying to my son last year leaving multiple close games against teams like Rotherham and Preston, etc that we’d have been annihilated in this league because we gave them chances any Prem team would’ve taken. It’s easy to leave a ground & forget the chances they skied or messed up. I always knew we’d need to get a lot better to do it at this level and thought we would, but I wouldn’t say we have - maybe because we’ve had to bed in a new team.

4. Given that inexperience and style we’re making mistakes and getting punished.

5. I’m not sure the fixtures have been kind to us. In the main, the big boys at home and teams we might hope to be more competitive against away (bar Palace). That’s not an excuse, just unhelpful for confidence and momentum, which are important in sport. And frankly the lads are not receiving the best support from fans we could offer.

Not a coping mechanism for me at all. Just realities.

I don't want to go over all this again but as you said it's really only 3 loanees that we're missing and so the replacements for them clearly aren't having the impact (so far) as the loan players did.

I still think we tried to be too clever with the business; I think the players were available earlier in the window before preseason really started - heck we more or less knew in January that we were going up - we had ample time to sort something.

The skeptic in me believes it's because we didn't have enough cash in reserve to make deals and instead are reliant on loans with option to buys - things of that nature. Heck, we even have taken out loans to finance player purchases - I can only think this is becaue we lost a lot of our liquid cash due to the leveraged buyout, which undisputedly took cash out of the club (I understand that there's an argument that long term it may be for the better, but i'm adressing the here and now).

Traff thing been done to death. I said when we signed him it was unnecessary but hey ho.

The main thing that I want fans/people to understand is that potential is good and all but it's not like it's a surefire guarentee of a good player.

There's countless examples of youngsters coming into the PL with a far higher pedigree than the crop we signed and really struggled, two examples are Moise Kean and Renato Sanches.

I hope they all learn from this in the future - I really do think we need more football people in the club - I have major concerns with the inexperience we now have at boardroom level in English football.

[NewClaret]

Didn’t Craig Bellamy initiate this during a podcast last season?

What’s that RV?

[RVclaret]

What’s that RV?

The ‘it might come a year early’ for us narrative. He mentioned that of course you accept promotion but implied the current group might not have fully developed and be ready, but that they’d ’give it a go’.

[NewClaret]

The ‘it might come a year early’ for us narrative. He mentioned that of course you accept promotion but implied the current group might not have fully developed and be ready, but that they’d ’give it a go’.

Good memory. Remember that now.

I hope that’s also the internal expectation and therefore there’s no internal panicking.

[Chester Perry]

The problem with this notion is that the club took on the loan players specifically with the intention of being highly competitive/chasing promotion - it was a strategic choice, as we have seen at a number of clubs, particularly in recent seasons.

The difference between the early messaging and the continued actions of the club in that summer transfer window and beyond, are really quite stark.

[AfloatinClaret]

Not for the first time. I recall enjoying a wonderful day out at the play-off final against Stockport in 1994 being tempered by the realisation that we were going to get battered the following season. I've always believed that had we lost that day, we'd have gone up the year after and stayed there, rather than the immediate relegation and our having to wait until 2000 to go back up.

[bumba]

If we got promoted too early after 1 year out of the premier league and all the money we have spent then Luton must have been promoted 20 years too early but there giving it a better go than us.
No such thing as too early, the problem is team selections and summer transfers plain and simple

[mikeS]

We got promoted with 101 points and we're head and shoulders above the other sides in the championship.
During the summer we didn't sign two players who were key to our success, Tella and Harwood- Bellis.
We signed a raft of new players who'd never been at the club and were judged to be Premiereship level.
We didn't play at home during the summer, choosing to play in Europe with no time for the new players to acclimatise.
We started the season against City with mostly a new team against the hardest home game you can have against the treble winners. We didn't give some of the players who had won the championship a starting place. Muric, Zaroury, Benson,
We had injuries to Beyer and then others.
We've let 30 goals in in 12 games and not won at home.
We have our leading striker suffering mental health issues.
But We have still a chance to stay up.
26 games left and West Ham next at the Turf after a break for the players this week. Need to dig in and carve out a win to lift the gloom.

[Florian]

Hes not playing zarory benson and tella

[LoveCurryPies]

This forum would be full of threads criticising the Owners, Manager and Players if we hadn't got promoted.

The "What if..." fans need to focus on reality.

Did anyone from the Club say this season was going to be easy? Several times VK actually emphasised how hard the climb would be.

It was probably the same fans that were talking of finishing mid table or even top 6 that are now disappointed and want to return to the safety of the Championship.

There has never been a more important time for the fans (despite the disappointment so far) to really back the team. No booing. No more pointless negative threads.

[KRBFC]

If we got promoted too early after 1 year out of the premier league and all the money we have spent then Luton must have been promoted 20 years too early but there giving it a better go than us.
No such thing as too early, the problem is team selections and summer transfers plain and simple

It’s not though is it, look at Al Dakhil for example, 6 months ago he was in and out of one of the worst teams in Belgium now he’s playing regularly in the Premier League. It’s a ridiculous step up and almost instant. Whilst he’s clearly a talented player he’s a young kid and needs time and patience.

Ekdal 6 months after signing from the Sweden league is in a PL team.

I don’t think some of you quite understand the step up for all of our players, even the ones here last season. Then we are bedding in a bunch of new players too because we needed to replace those loan players.

What have we brought in? 20 new players since January? And 16 the summer prior? But you expect instant results in the PL? Some of you are just insane.

[KRBFC]

Hes not playing zarory benson and tella

Benson has been injured all season
Zaroury I really wanted to see given a chance then he didn’t perform at Bournemouth
Tella VK wanted but he didn’t get

[CoolClaret]

This forum would be full of threads criticising the Owners, Manager and Players if we hadn't got promoted.

The "What if..." fans need to focus on reality.

Did anyone from the Club say this season was going to be easy? Several times VK actually emphasised how hard the climb would be.

It was probably the same fans that were talking of finishing mid table or even top 6 that are now disappointed and want to return to the safety of the Championship.

There has never been a more important time for the fans (despite the disappointment so far) to really back the team. No booing. No more pointless negative threads.

No level-headed fan is expecting an easy season. This is completely strawmaning that view point.

All we're saying is that right now it is nowhere near good enough. 4 points from 12 games is a horrific return - blame it on youngsters, new squad anything - this was all the choice of the manager/board.

Time for it to improve of course but we're quite a way off showing that we can semi-regularly win games at this level.

[Florian]

Benson has been injured all season
Zaroury I really wanted to see given a chance then he didn’t perform at Bournemouth
Tella VK wanted but he didn’t get

I bet he brings in about 3 ir 4 players in Jan

[Vino blanco]

Our last year's team was a joy to watch, it was perfectly balanced with a blend of experience and young, talented players, and the each member of the team knew what his role was as well as that of his team mates. This has been replaced by signing a lot of inexperienced, light weight youngsters from mainly weaker European leagues, who have no knowledge whatsoever of the English game, never mind the Premier League. I do not know who was responsible for this summer's recruitment in preparation for our our season in the PL but whoever it was has made some major mistakes.
There has been some imrovement in the last couple of performances where we have had a more settled team, but as to whether we are good enough to stay up I doubt very much. I really want VK to get it right quickly and start getting some wins on the board and as such he and the team need the full support of all the fans at this difficult time.

[Quicknick]

Our last year's team was a joy to watch, it was perfectly balanced with a blend of experience and young, talented players, and the each member of the team knew what his role was as well as that of his team mates. This has been replaced by signing a lot of inexperienced, light weight youngsters from mainly weaker European leagues, who have no knowledge whatsoever of the English game, never mind the Premier League. I do not know who was responsible for this summer's recruitment in preparation for our our season in the PL but whoever it was has made some major mistakes.
There has been some imrovement in the last couple of performances where we have had a more settled team, but as to whether we are good enough to stay up I doubt very much. I really want VK to get it right quickly and start getting some wins on the board and as such he and the team need the full support of all the fans at this difficult time.

If we go down, I don't think the current first eleven would get us back up.

[alwaysaclaret]

I think getting promoted with loan players is tough, Forest did similar and had to fork out £150m on 20 players.

I know fans like to moan at VK for not signing the loans but he wanted them, Maatsen was so expensive then didn’t want to come and for whatever reason the chairman’s daughter was posting free Tella TikTok’s (I’m not even convinced Tella would have chosen us over Leverkusen).

Then you have to look at the squad, I think a lot of them just aren’t ready for the step up to the PL yet, another year of development in the Championship would’ve been good for a lot of them.

Think I'm correct in saying we only had 5 loans and 1 of which hardly played. 2 of them were arguably key in getting us promoted in tella and maatsen, thb was out with injury for a significant period during which time we found other cb's to step in. It is however arguable that we were promoted too early, however there were 2 other player's who were key in our season, Zaroury and Benson, unfortunately the latter has been hit by injury so far, but I'm not sure why zaroury's development hasn't been continued, one player in particular who has been bought in to play the same position certainly hasn't shown any better form is Tresor, yet zaroury has still been largely overlooked, and also vk seemingly also continues to shut out larsen who in he's time on the pitch has impressed the most, he's also for a time continued to push Ramsey who is clearly not fit or ready to play at this level imo, although clear to see he has some talent, it's also probably fair to say we've signed too many for the future and not enough for the present.

[Vino blanco]

If we go down, I don't think the current first eleven would get us back up.

Fully agree.

[Quicknick]

Fully agree.

No higher than 8th, then VK will have ruined his reputation. I hope I'm wrong.

[Kilson810]

Not a thing for me. We've been poor in a few departments, particularly recruitment not bringing in the right players and the policy of buying players to sell on only works if you're stable in the PL.

We have been unlucky though as well with injuries and suspensions. I can't see us getting our 'best 11' out on a pitch this side of Xmas.

[Quicknick]

Not a thing for me. We've been poor in a few departments, particularly recruitment not bringing in the right players and the policy of buying players to sell on only works if you're stable in the PL.

We have been unlucky though as well with injuries and suspensions. I can't see us getting our 'best 11' out on a pitch this side of Xmas.

Does he know his best eleven?

[Woodleyclaret]

Injuries and Foster situation are impacting on our season. Next week we will start to win games

[bumba]

It’s not though is it, look at Al Dakhil for example, 6 months ago he was in and out of one of the worst teams in Belgium now he’s playing regularly in the Premier League. It’s a ridiculous step up and almost instant. Whilst he’s clearly a talented player he’s a young kid and needs time and patience.

Ekdal 6 months after signing from the Sweden league is in a PL team.

I don’t think some of you quite understand the step up for all of our players, even the ones here last season. Then we are bedding in a bunch of new players too because we needed to replace those loan players.

What have we brought in? 20 new players since January? And 16 the summer prior? But you expect instant results in the PL? Some of you are just insane.

Has Ekdal even played a game yet? More to the point though he plays international football.
Al Dakhil is a full Belgium international.

These players aren't playing against a quality of players they haven't come up against previously.
Nobody said anything about instant results but we could of done better, Luton look much more likely to stay up currently and have had a overhaul of 20-30 players over this summer and last.
How many of there players have played full internationals or premier league football regular? Less than a handful I'd say.

We have the quality within the squad to do better, we have the players to do better, our team selections and some dodgy transfers are what have cost us

[summitclaret]

We didn't get promoted too early. We have completely messed up our recruitment, to follow a venture capitalist approach.

Additionally, we have signed far too many wingers and still not replaced Cork.

In particular, our ability to defend is hopeless. Also, we are too easily bullied all over the pitch and our manager is too stubborn. It's okay to put the ball out for a throw in if under pressure.

[Quickenthetempo]

It’s not though is it, look at Al Dakhil for example, 6 months ago he was in and out of one of the worst teams in Belgium now he’s playing regularly in the Premier League. It’s a ridiculous step up and almost instant. Whilst he’s clearly a talented player he’s a young kid and needs time and patience.

Ekdal 6 months after signing from the Sweden league is in a PL team.

I don’t think some of you quite understand the step up for all of our players, even the ones here last season. Then we are bedding in a bunch of new players too because we needed to replace those loan players.

What have we brought in? 20 new players since January? And 16 the summer prior? But you expect instant results in the PL? Some of you are just insane.

I know you have gone off topic slightly to reply to another poster, but do you think we got promoted too early because them two players aren't ready?

[beddie]

I’m convinced if a top rated manager came in today (not that I want to lose VK) and we had a some cash (Jan) the first thing he’d look for is a proven CH a proven C Midfielder and a proven Striker. With those positions covered I’m sure we could survive with the full backs we have. Easy to say I know but that’s the only way we’d stop the rot imo.

[Vegas Claret]

the ENTIRE club, fans included will learn a lot more about these players this season than we would do smashing Huddersfield again. Promotion isn't too early nor is it a wasted season.

[jojomk1]

We didn't get promoted too early - it was a great achievement and we deserved it
But we recruited poorly in the summer for the Premier League level
For me, VK took his eye off the ball in terms of how our players would be able to cope at the higher level
The "Project" (that some refer to) seemed to blind VK as to the immediate standards that the new signings possessed against the standards needed to play at Premier League level pretty much from day 1 of the season
We may have bought for a successful future (that can only be determined in the next couple of years)
But this year has seen us to be way below the standards required to stay in this league

[Vino blanco]

the ENTIRE club, fans included will learn a lot more about these players this season than we would do smashing Huddersfield again. Promotion isn't too early nor is it a wasted season.
[/quote

I don't think our current starting eleven would be "smashing Huddersfield again". That's the worry. I don't know what our best starting eleven is, and I don't think VK and his team do.]

[CoolClaret]

Just to show how daft this notion is;

We literally signed relegation rival Sheff Utd's best player a week or two before the season started (they had loans as well in the champ), a team that we finished 10 points clear of, and then the other team, Luton, has a player on their books still playing that they've had since the non-league and we also finished 21 points clear of them.

Not to mention Everton might get a 12 point penalty AND the fact teams like Fulham/Bournemouth aren't really up to much...

There's no greater time to have been promoted in all honesty.

[AlargeClaret]

I keep hearing from fans/read on here that we got promoted too early.

Why do people think this?

I can't think of a single reason.

Not aimed at yourself , but personally I think the “ promoted too early “ fan schtik is a total steaming pile of manure . Financially we seriously needed it and who’s to say a season finishing 7th/8th or play off defeat wouldn’t have really deflated the club and fans .We were ( v intelligently) geared to bounce right back and we did in glorious style . That VK’s project is floundering a touch this season is what it is .

[Quickenthetempo]

Not aimed at yourself , but personally I think the “ promoted too early “ fan schtik is a total steaming pile of manure . Financially we seriously needed it and who’s to say a season finishing 7th/8th or play off defeat wouldn’t have really deflated the club and fans .We were ( v intelligently) geared to bounce right back and we did in glorious style . That VK’s project is floundering a touch this season is what it is .

I was asking the question if anyone could give a genuine reason why they think we were promoted too early.

I don't think we were.

[boyyanno]

This forum would be full of threads criticising the Owners, Manager and Players if we hadn't got promoted.

The "What if..." fans need to focus on reality.

Did anyone from the Club say this season was going to be easy? Several times VK actually emphasised how hard the climb would be.

It was probably the same fans that were talking of finishing mid table or even top 6 that are now disappointed and want to return to the safety of the Championship.

There has never been a more important time for the fans (despite the disappointment so far) to really back the team. No booing. No more pointless negative threads.

This is a strange post because I'd have said the complete opposite.

The ones who were adamant we would be fine are the ones now trotting the we weren't ready for promotion it's all part of the plan and everything is rosey brigade.

I'd say the majority of posters I've seen that have been critical were saying in summer that it would be tough and we needed to get recruitment right- I was certainly one of those.

You can go even further back if you want, where I and a few others were critical about signing multiple loanees because this was the situation we would be left in. Once again we were told it wasn't an issue.

There's some people on here that don't actually have an opinion, they just back the club in all they do and argue with everyone else that it's the right way to do things- that's what's causing a hell of a lot of arguments on here imo.

[Kilson810]

Does he know his best eleven?

Possibly not! I am not sure I have a fully confident opinion on it myself but I know it contains Benson, Ekdal and Foster.

[Spijed]

Perhaps the title should be changed to "Getting Promoted too easily".

Something which I think has partly led to where we currently are. I suspect the ease with which we went up meant that everyone thought that whilst stopping up wouldn't be 100% guaranteed the feeling probably was that it wouldn't prove as difficuilt as it has done.

As a result I think those in charge thought we'd coped very well with a high turnover of players and we'd do so again this season.

[fidelcastro]

Possibly not! I am not sure I have a fully confident opinion on it myself but I know it contains Benson, Ekdal and Foster.

VK doesn't care what his best team is.

After our only win at Luton, he changed it again.

[jojomk1]

Just to show how daft this notion is;

We literally signed relegation rival Sheff Utd's best player a week or two before the season started (they had loans as well in the champ), a team that we finished 10 points clear of, and then the other team, Luton, has a player on their books still playing that they've had since the non-league and we also finished 21 points clear of them.

Not to mention Everton might get a 12 point penalty AND the fact teams like Fulham/Bournemouth aren't really up to much...

There's no greater time to have been promoted in all honesty.

And we are currently below all of them !

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Not aimed at yourself , but personally I think the “ promoted too early “ fan schtik is a total steaming pile of manure . Financially we seriously needed it and who’s to say a season finishing 7th/8th or play off defeat wouldn’t have really deflated the club and fans .We were ( v intelligently) geared to bounce right back and we did in glorious style . That VK’s project is floundering a touch this season is what it is .

How do you know that financially we seriously need it?
The accounts aren’t out yet for last season

[fidelcastro]

And we are currently below all of them !

Yes. We also have two points fewer than Derby County had after 12 games, the season they came down with that record number of lowest points.

I'm actually amazed people aren't more angry.

[Jakubclaret]

It's a nonsense concept anyway because that particular season at some point it must have occured with the way we was going about things results wise that promotion was likely. It's not been an overnight going to bed a championship side & waking up next morning as a PL side, during the course of that season & especially in the close enough time was provided to plan accordingly.

[Burnley1989]

Yes. We also have two points fewer than Derby County had after 12 games, the season they came down with that record number of lowest points.

I'm actually amazed people aren't more angry.

This is going to sound really odd as I loved winning the league but I honestly wouldn’t be angry if we went down this time, I’ve remembered why I disliked the premier league so much in the last few seasons we were in it.
I’d probably be a bit gutted for a few weeks but I don’t think as much as previous relegations, I just hate not being able to lay a glove on teams and being consigned to defeat before kick off most weeks