Everton docked 10 points

[CoolClaret]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... llion.html

To quote Bosscat….

[Alanstevensonsgloves]

Semi justice it should have been 20 points
We now need to kick on in our games 6 points in next. 2 games a minimum requirement

Minimum requirement is maximum effort!

Ohhh hang on a minute

[Vegas Claret]

and how will we do that if they go into administration? which is a possibility if the sale to 777 Partners is blocked

if they go into administration isn't that another huge points deduction ?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Leeds didn’t go down that season so it should be just us.

Everton were only 4 points ahead of us with a worse goal difference so even a 4 point deduction that season and they would have gone down. All adds to our argument which seems a strong one.

Leeds went down last season though, so they’ve potentially got grounds to sue

[Spijed]

Why have Everton been punished far quicker than Man city?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Why have Everton been punished far quicker than Man city?

City have been at it for longer
More to investigate, paperwork to go over and it’s currently in court anyway

If they’re going to nail City then they have to make sure their ducks are all lined up

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

I expect BFC, primarily, in that the 3 years ended in 2021/22, to sue them, and I would expect it to settle out of court for far, far more than what Sheffield United got after the Tevez issue (£20m).

Everton won’t enter administration because of the further points deduction and the impact it has on the stadium etc. How can they continue building the stadium for next season if in administration?

If we get, for example, £50m (though I am guessing more) that would be huge in terms of our transfer kitty either in January or next summer.

Also worth factoring in that if we get relegated again due to Everton having a multi-year Premier League squad and us having a brand new one, our loss could be argued to be based on two relegations, not one. That’s why I would expect a quick out of court settlement but not until the appeal has concluded.

Yeah it could get very expensive for them as we missed out on £100m as well as those other clubs.

Any fine would still be spunked on wingers though

[Firthy]

Why have Everton been punished far quicker than Man city?

Not just City. Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U and now Newcastle. They just fiddle the books supposedly within the rules. I find it all a bit hypcritical that Everton and teams in lower leagues like Derby get punished while the big clubs get away with it season after season.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Why have Everton been punished far quicker than Man city?

Because they haven’t got Lord panic sorting their case out.

[Roosterbooster]

City have been at it for longer
More to investigate, paperwork to go over and it’s currently in court anyway

If they’re going to nail City then they have to make sure their ducks are all lined up

I think the City thing is a bit different. City are accused of chronic over-valuing I think. So some ambiguity

Everton have just downright cheated and done an amateur job at hiding it

[Kilson810]

Why have Everton been punished far quicker than Man city?

PL don't want to punish their poster boys. How embarrassing if they had to enforce their own rules and start removing titles from City.

[KRBFC]

If you remembered correctly (which of course you haven’t) I said that Pace would sack him, but I was Dyche in.

The difference in this circumstance is Pace will Sack VK and I could understand why.

That’s absolutely lies, you used lay into Dyche after every defeat, why are you pretending you didn’t? At least stand on it, like I do.

[DAVETHEVICAR]

Been watching SSN and had various people on including Sports Lawyers and Financial experts and there is much more to come out with the possibility Everton May have the points reduction removed or possibly reduced- been no mention of Clubs suing them

[Andreshotboots]

I am hoping City get a massive points deduction

They reckon it could be 2/3 years before the City case is concluded.

[jedi_master]

They reckon it could be 2/3 years before the City case is concluded.

Call me a cynic but why do I see the firm hand of Premier League law never coming into contact with them…

[Andreshotboots]

Because they haven’t got Lord panic sorting their case out.

City have 112 charges against them or something like that. Everton had 1.

They also changed the rules since the City case came to light to deal with them quicker. I think they have something like 3 months to resolve it one way or the other.

They reckon, pre new rules the City case could still be a couple of YEARS away from an outcome..

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

They reckon it could be 2/3 years before the City case is concluded.

Its a joke init their just delaying the ( hopefully) inevitable.

I hope they tumble down the leagues like rangers and get all their titles taken off them, good suggestion from Stan collymore on talk sport. I agree with him.

[Quicknick]

Everton will still stay up, and easily.

[DAVETHEVICAR]

SSN now going to discuss possible legal claim from Leicester that they would not have been relegated if Everton deducted points last season. Would have to be a private legal claim as it cannot be with Premier League .
Should be interesting

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Call me a cynic but why do I see the firm hand of Premier League law never coming into contact with them…

It’s the PL chasing them through the courts, because the PL doesn’t have a time limit like UEFA does

[claretburns]

Made me laugh.

[Hipper]

I expect BFC, primarily, in that the 3 years ended in 2021/22, to sue them, and I would expect it to settle out of court for far, far more than what Sheffield United got after the Tevez issue (£20m).

Everton won’t enter administration because of the further points deduction and the impact it has on the stadium etc. How can they continue building the stadium for next season if in administration?

If we get, for example, £50m (though I am guessing more) that would be huge in terms of our transfer kitty either in January or next summer.

Also worth factoring in that if we get relegated again due to Everton having a multi-year Premier League squad and us having a brand new one, our loss could be argued to be based on two relegations, not one. That’s why I would expect a quick out of court settlement but not until the appeal has concluded.

Surely if we are going to make a claim against someone don't you have to show we've lost something. Whilst we might say we lost £100 million of Premier League income last season we got rid of high wage earners and cut our cloth accordingly. We also had an amazingly successful season on the field (which I enjoyed more then any Premier League season barring the first half of 2017-18) but I don't know how financially successful it was. In other words was our profit or loss any different if we had been in the top division last season? If not then it comes down to prestige and however you value that.

[Fretters]

Sean Dyche's Everton being sued for cheating and relegating Sean Dyche's Burnley is my favourite thing from today.

[Roosterbooster]

If not then it comes down to prestige and however you value that.

Prestige is immeasurable. Its why so many clubs spend a fortune tying to achieve it. Once you've reached the heights, it's almost a perpetual cycle of rewards if you then manage it appropriately

[Vegas Claret]

this will get reduced on appeal

[ArmchairDetective]

I agree with those posted already that the 10 point deduction will likely be fairly irrelevant for us given that they seem much stronger than us this season. Either we start picking up points like Everton and leave the rest of the relegation candidates in our wake, or they end up miles ahead of us anyway.

What does interest me is this legal case. I don't like to see two historic clubs such as ours and Everton's becoming involved in a case like this. But we could certainly benefit from a nice £100m regardless of which league we're in. Do we know much about the likelihood that this does go ahead, the likelihood of it going in our favour, the process and who oversees the case? It could become very complicated to follow.

[CnBtruntru]

And they are still above us FFS

[corporal jones]

Self pity city will be in overdrive time.

What an absolute dim witted fool you are. No doubt you would be one of those singing songs about Hillsborough and Munich. Try and think of something original or is that beyond your intellect?

[Woodleyclaret]

City are backed by serious oil money and will never suffer.Heaven forbid we upset the Arabs.

[Woonderbah]

this will get reduced on appeal

I think even if the points deduction is reduced, it sounds like that won't affect a flurry of law suits and the Committee Chair seems to back the claims.

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[aggi]

Full judgement is here (I haven't read it)

https://resources.premierleague.com/pre ... cation.pdf

[Gp8419]

I agree with those posted already that the 10 point deduction will likely be fairly irrelevant for us given that they seem much stronger than us this season. Either we start picking up points like Everton and leave the rest of the relegation candidates in our wake, or they end up miles ahead of us anyway.

What does interest me is this legal case. I don't like to see two historic clubs such as ours and Everton's becoming involved in a case like this. But we could certainly benefit from a nice £100m regardless of which league we're in. Do we know much about the likelihood that this does go ahead, the likelihood of it going in our favour, the process and who oversees the case? It could become very complicated to follow.

I’m sick of people keep saying this won’t make a difference of course it bloody makes a difference it should do! It’s give us a massive advantage. Who do we think Everton are Man City??? They have had a purple patch of late so everyone thinks this is the real Everton winning every week? Are we going to carry picking up 4 points every 12 games surely not? It’s still a realistic possibility Everton finish above us.but people making out it’s no difference 10 points are talking b******s. Surely we have a purple patch at some point? Also Everton’s fixtures have been a lot better than ours.It’s just because we are still below them as it stands,we should finish ever so close to Everton now and I think it’s going to be really tight if Everton stay up are not,considering they have been 17th with a similar squad two seasons in a row.It needs looking at long term this 10 points from our point of view it’s huge.

[Woonderbah]

Sean Dyche's Everton being sued for cheating and relegating Sean Dyche's Burnley is my favourite thing from today.

Will he be called as a witness ? And by who ?

[gandhisflipflop]

I’m sick of people keep saying this won’t make a difference of course it bloody makes a difference it should do! It’s give us a massive advantage. Who do we think Everton are Man City??? They have had a purple patch of late so everyone thinks this is the real Everton winning every week? Are we going to carry picking up 4 points every 12 games surely not? It’s still a realistic possibility Everton finish above us.but people making out it’s no difference 10 points are talking b******s. Surely we have a purple patch at some point? Also Everton’s fixtures have been a lot better than ours.It’s just because we are still below them as it stands,we should finish ever so close to Everton now and I think it’s going to be really tight if Everton stay up are not,considering they have been 17th with a similar squad two seasons in a row.It needs looking at long term this 10 points from our point of view it’s huge.

Yeah but it won’t stop the ‘slag the club’ epidemic that happing at the moment. It’s everywhere you look regarding Burnley. It’s pathetic

[CrosspoolClarets]

Leeds went down last season though, so they’ve potentially got grounds to sue

They have indeed but this commission only investigated the years to 2021/22 so it looks like they have a different argument - that the punishment should have been last season, not that Everton overspent last season.

Feels a weaker argument to me.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Been watching SSN and had various people on including Sports Lawyers and Financial experts and there is much more to come out with the possibility Everton May have the points reduction removed or possibly reduced- been no mention of Clubs suing them

I have only skim read the 40 page document plus the additional document mentioning us, but I have already spotted that the clown on SSN at lunchtime was getting everything wrong, didn’t really mention the lower or upper threshold and the relevance of these as explained in the document.

But nonetheless they seem to think their talking heads have more knowledge than a judge, a KC and an accountant who formed the commission.

[Kilson810]

Just think of how many wingers we could sign with that compensation money

[CrosspoolClarets]

Surely if we are going to make a claim against someone don't you have to show we've lost something. Whilst we might say we lost £100 million of Premier League income last season we got rid of high wage earners and cut our cloth accordingly. We also had an amazingly successful season on the field (which I enjoyed more then any Premier League season barring the first half of 2017-18) but I don't know how financially successful it was. In other words was our profit or loss any different if we had been in the top division last season? If not then it comes down to prestige and however you value that.

This is not the way I look at it.

Our mitigating action as a club doesn’t limit Everton’s liability (if proven) for our initial loss of £100m.

We may subsequently have turned it around and been promoted but that initial loss is locked in. It could be further argued that it set us back years by having to sell established PL performers on the cheap like Pope, and badly affected the value of the club.

My own fag packet comes to a lot more than £100m but the barristers commissioned by the clubs involved will no doubt have a good feel for the correct way to do it.

[pureclaret]

ISo Im reading that the 3 things that can happen are pts dedcution , a fine , and a transfer embargo until back under a legal trading loss , they have chosen just 1 aspect of pts deduction If 12 pts is the maximum pts deduction , what is the maximum fine?

With regards to City if the maximum is 12pt deduction and transfer embargo what fine would they need to be given to make a difference?

[CrosspoolClarets]

I agree with those posted already that the 10 point deduction will likely be fairly irrelevant for us given that they seem much stronger than us this season. Either we start picking up points like Everton and leave the rest of the relegation candidates in our wake, or they end up miles ahead of us anyway.

What does interest me is this legal case. I don't like to see two historic clubs such as ours and Everton's becoming involved in a case like this. But we could certainly benefit from a nice £100m regardless of which league we're in. Do we know much about the likelihood that this does go ahead, the likelihood of it going in our favour, the process and who oversees the case? It could become very complicated to follow.

All I can add (and I wouldn’t have just done 4 posts if I could edit ) is that the document Aggi has linked has a second document replying to Burnley et al back in May, by one of the commission, and my skim of this suggests that we can now ask the commission to move onto compensation matters but as this is commercial in confidence our club aren’t entitled to see the figures concerned.

I may be wrong but that was my interpretation of the legal speak.

[ArmchairDetective]

I’m sick of people keep saying this won’t make a difference of course it bloody makes a difference it should do! It’s give us a massive advantage. Who do we think Everton are Man City??? They have had a purple patch of late so everyone thinks this is the real Everton winning every week? Are we going to carry picking up 4 points every 12 games surely not? It’s still a realistic possibility Everton finish above us.but people making out it’s no difference 10 points are talking b******s. Surely we have a purple patch at some point? Also Everton’s fixtures have been a lot better than ours.It’s just because we are still below them as it stands,we should finish ever so close to Everton now and I think it’s going to be really tight if Everton stay up are not,considering they have been 17th with a similar squad two seasons in a row.It needs looking at long term this 10 points from our point of view it’s huge.

Woah, chill. Did you read the rest of my post, or just the first line?

I was intentionally non-absolute in my wording, because of course it could make a difference. But my point for the past few weeks we've only really been looking at being better than Bournemouth, Sheffield United and Luton to stay up. Things can change, that's true, but unless Everton suddenly have a massive slump in form and start to show relegation form (which granted is possible just like every other club in the bottom half) then the -10 points likely won't make too much of a difference to whether we stay up because they will slowly make their way back up the league table. If you'd read my post you'd also see that I mention (and hope!) that we follow them up the league and away from the relegation places, in which case the -10 points also doesn't make too much of a difference to our season.

Yeah but it won’t stop the ‘slag the club’ epidemic that happing at the moment. It’s everywhere you look regarding Burnley. It’s pathetic

And if this 'slag the club epidemic' comment was aimed at me you might want to read my post history. I'm typically a very positive poster on here and have remained so despite our difficult start to the season.

[ArmchairDetective]

All I can add (and I wouldn’t have just done 4 posts if I could edit ) is that the document Aggi has linked has a second document replying to Burnley et al back in May, by one of the commission, and my skim of this suggests that we can now ask the commission to move onto compensation matters but as this is commercial in confidence our club aren’t entitled to see the figures concerned.

I may be wrong but that was my interpretation of the legal speak.

Thanks CrosspoolClarets - the reply I was hoping for!

[Vincent'sCap]

Everton could have been docked 20 points and they still wouldn't have finished in the bottom 3 the 10 point deduction has been manufactured to save them from the drop and made to look like they have been punished and that's the end of that.

[Belgianclaret]

We definitely should sue them.

Another thing: points deduction -10 but goal difference stays the same. Should’ve been -5 for each three points docked

[dougcollins]

This punishment would have had dire consequences for Everton last season, or the one before. The PL have decided to implement it at a time it does the least damage.

I hope Leicester and Leeds successfully sue them for last season.

[Chester Perry]

Its a joke init their just delaying the ( hopefully) inevitable.

I hope they tumble down the leagues like rangers and get all their titles taken off them, good suggestion from Stan collymore on talk sport. I agree with him.

Essentially this was about a single charge - if you read the judgement that aggi shared you will find that 40,000 documents were produced around this hearing and 28,000 submitted for it - now imagine what Manchester City will do for the 122 charges they face - it will not be quick - and this is a club whose ownership has historically taken the stance that they would prefer to tie such cases up for years and hire Europe's top 50 law firms to assist that process. It is that attitude that has already seen many separate cases in the commercial and high court around the processes for the Premier Leagues investigations, charges and even the time frames to what can and cannot be reviewed. We should also note that some of the Premier Leagues charges relate to Manchester City's refusal to share requested documentation. It is not a small case and the potential ramifications of it are huge got the whole professional game.

[Westleigh]

Leicester and us will be public enemy no one to the Scousers,blaming us for their clubs financial cheating ,hope we can finish above them and still take £100 mill compensation off them,we should also sue City for taking 6 points off us which made the difference between staying up or being relegated.

[Vincent'sCap]

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[Chester Perry]

Full judgement is here (I haven't read it)

https://resources.premierleague.com/pre ... cation.pdf

That is a really clear and well constructed document, decisions are clearly explained with specific items from both parties being rejected - It will be interesting to see what Everton can actually challenge in terms of an appeal

[NewClaret]

That is a really clear and well constructed document, decisions are clearly explained with specific items from both parties being rejected - It will be interesting to see what Everton can actually challenge in terms of an appeal

Appeals are very very difficult.

There will need to be something substantial in the written reasons to appeal to stand any chance of success.