..."this lot don't know how to win a game",

[CoolClaret]

once said a wiseman.

Sadly, it's exactly how I'd describe our current team.

Where do we go from here?...

I don't have the answer, just massively dissasppointed by the approach to the season and the results.

Today we had nigh on 25-30 mill of attacking talent (Odobert, Trésor)not even in the matchday squad; this just isn't feasible for a club like ours, where we need funds allocated to improving our starting XI and matchday squad.

Powder puff at the back.

Sigh

[BurnleyFC]

We don’t have the players, unfortunately.

And powderpuff describes us perfectly.

[fidelcastro]

Been saying it for weeks. We don't have the players because we have a manager who has spent the budget very badly.

He needs to go. It's embarrassing.

[KRBFC]

No idea how to win a game at this level unfortunately atm, if we hadn’t lost all of our previous home games we probably see that game out and win 1-0, you could just sense we were gonna lose it at 1-1.

[DCWat]

It’s telling that Luton, LUTON, are five points ahead of us and managing to pick wins up.

This is a team that was light years behind us last season and has spent a fraction of what we spent in the summer.

The performance today wasn’t bad but that defeat is on Kompany. Hindsight not needed as we were saying as soon as he came on that Cullen was the wrong choice.

Next week is massive - if we can’t beat Sheff United at home it’ll be a big nail in the coffin.

[fidelcastro]

No idea how to win a game at this level unfortunately atm, if we hadn’t lost all of our previous home games we probably see that game out and win 1-0, you could just sense we were gonna lose it at 1-1.

We'd have seen it out under the previous manager.

No messing about with it in defence for a start.

[DCWat]

Been saying it for weeks. We don't have the players because we have a manager who has spent the budget very badly.

He needs to go. It's embarrassing.

I wouldn’t go that far but I would love to understand his thinking in relation to the summer business. Shame we don’t have any journalists willing to ask some hard questions.

[KRBFC]

We'd have seen it out under the previous manager.

No messing about with it in defence for a start.

We got relegated under the previous manager in his first PL season too. And his last btw.

[MACCA]

Recruitment poor, man management poor, squad harmony poor

Just look at Luton to see how important the above is

A side we finished 21 points above last session, and yet strangely have beaten this season.

[CoolClaret]

It’s telling that Luton, LUTON, are five points ahead of us and managing to pick wins up.

This is a team that was light years behind us last season and has spent a fraction of what we spent in the summer.

The performance today wasn’t bad but that defeat is on Kompany. Hindsight not needed as we were saying as soon as he came on that Cullen was the wrong choice.

Next week is massive - if we can’t beat Sheff United at home it’ll be a big nail in the coffin.

& starting the season against Man City with the new lads straight in with a lot of last years heros on the bench or not in the squad.

I think he massively f***ed up in that moment. I can't imagine it went down well with the players.

Similarly to when Dyche tossed off Europe by playing a weakened team away at Olympiacos, for example.

[CoolClaret]

We got relegated under the previous manager in his first PL season too. And his last btw.

We know this is entirely different though and have been through it multiple times. We signed next to nothing that first Dyche promo season and finished with 30 points.

We're on pace for 11.7

[fidelcastro]

We got relegated under the previous manager in his first PL season too. And his last btw.

Dyche never had the opportunity to spend over 100 million in one summer window. If he had, I can't believe it would be as embarrassing as this!

[boatshed bill]

I wouldn’t go that far but I would love to understand his thinking in relation to the summer business. Shame we don’t have any journalists willing to ask some hard questions.

TBH I doubt they'd get the answers some are looking for.
We obviously don't know what goes on at board level, we don't know the long-term strategy.
But, however you want to look at it, £100 million doesn't buy what we need right now.

[Vegas Claret]

It’s telling that Luton, LUTON, are five points ahead of us and managing to pick wins up.

This is a team that was light years behind us last season and has spent a fraction of what we spent in the summer.

The performance today wasn’t bad but that defeat is on Kompany. Hindsight not needed as we were saying as soon as he came on that Cullen was the wrong choice.

Next week is massive - if we can’t beat Sheff United at home it’ll be a big nail in the coffin.

yep, we signed far far too many players when we really need 3 or 4 of real quality

[CoolClaret]

TBH I doubt they'd get the answers some are looking for.
We obviously don't know what goes on at board level, we don't know the long-term strategy.
But, however you want to look at it, £100 million doesn't buy what we need right now.

Again, with respect BB

I don't give a damn about the 'long-term strategy'.

We have just witnessed 7 straight home defeats and are sat on 4 points after 13 games.

No 'long-term strategy', no matter how good it sounds in theory would have this as part of the plan.

These lot will be on a ******* fortune to put out this shite as well. it's utterly shite

[KRBFC]

& starting the season against Man City with the new lads straight in with a lot of last years heros on the bench or not in the squad.

I think he massively f***ed up in that moment. I can't imagine it went down well with the players.

Similarly to when Dyche tossed off Europe by playing a weakened team away at Olympiacos, for example.

But how long are we going to keep banging the same drum about recruitment mistakes VK has made? Are we gonna cry about Tella after every loss?

2/3 windows very good, the last one he signed some good players but the balance was all wrong.

Moving forward I think it’s clear the areas that need strengthening, I think VK deserves and has earnt the right to see this season out and at least half of next season. You may disagree

[bumba]

We got relegated under the previous manager in his first PL season too. And his last btw.

Do you think we'd have been relegated in both of those seasons had Dyche had £100 million to spend?

[boatshed bill]

Again, with respect BB

I don't give a damn about the 'long-term strategy'.

We have just witnessed 7 straight home defeats and are sat on 4 points after 13 games.

No 'long-term strategy', no matter how good it sounds in theory would have this as part of the plan.

These lot will be on a ******* fortune to put out this shite as well. it's utterly shite

Yep, I get all that.
But I think there is a business plan in there, unfortunately keeping the fans happy in the short term doesn't necessarily feature very strongly in it.

[CoolClaret]

But how long are we going to keep banging the same drum about recruitment mistakes VK has made? Are we gonna cry about Tella after every loss?

2/3 windows very good, the last one he signed some good players but the balance was all wrong.

Moving forward I think it’s clear the areas that need strengthening, I think VK deserves and has earnt the right to see this season out and at least half of next season. You may disagree

It's not just Tella though - and it's a massive chalk against VK especially with a budget.

All the attacking players we've brought in this season/summer have combined for a grand total of 3 league goals.

We had like I said nigh on 25-30 mill worth of talent (Trésor and Odobert) not even making the match day squad - this simply isn't Burnley Football Club. We need those types of funds strengthening obvious weak places in the side.

[CoolClaret]

Yep, I get all that.
But I think there is a business plan in there, unfortunately keeping the fans happy in the short term doesn't necessarily feature very strongly in it.

Then as I've mentioned before - if the 'business plan' (which I'm skeptical that it is btw), is to simply be a factory for making $$$$ for our owners, why should we bother?

If that really is the case, then we cease to be a football club and are just an investment vehicle and for that, I want 0 part of - and I think a lot of people will feel the same.

[KRBFC]

Do you think we'd have been relegated in both of those seasons had Dyche had £100 million to spend?

Dyche didn’t have to build a new squad over 12 months though, he inherited players like Ings Trippier Marney Vokes and slowly built around that core.

[bumba]

Dyche didn’t have to build a new squad over 12 months though, he inherited players like Ings Trippier Marney Vokes and slowly built around that core.

VK didn't have to rebuild a squad this summer either

[KRBFC]

It's not just Tella though - and it's a massive chalk against VK especially with a budget.

All the attacking players we've brought in this season/summer have combined for a grand total of 3 league goals.

We had like I said nigh on 25-30 mill worth of talent (Trésor and Odobert) not even making the match day squad - this simply isn't Burnley Football Club. We need those types of funds strengthening obvious weak places in the side.

I agree with you but why are we still banging on about it? At what point do you get over it, accept mistakes were made and allow VK to learn from it?

I don’t see why after every defeat we’re still repeating the same lines. We hear you loud and clear. What’s the outcome you want?

[KRBFC]

VK didn't have to rebuild a squad this summer either

Clearly he did though because half the main players who we had last season either left, injured for the majority or simply not good enough atm.

Jay not good enough
Taylor not good enough
Cullen not good enough
Roberts not good enough
Brownhill barely good enough
Al Dakhil not good enough yet
Zaroury not good enough yet

Benson and Ekdal injured all season
Beyer missed half the season but looks a success imo

Who’s left?

[CoolClaret]

I agree with you but why are we still banging on about it? At what point do you get over it, accept mistakes were made and allow VK to learn from it?

I don’t see why after every defeat we’re still repeating the same lines. We hear you loud and clear. What’s the outcome you want?

Fair point;

Has he learnt though? I'm not sure. I'm not sure that I'd trust him with a budget again.

I really don't like (have been vocal about this for a while) how much of our club we have tied up in one person.

I'd like a bit more ownership of the mess from the manager and boardroom I think. Maybe put some away travel on for a game for a thanks of continued support in a historicly bad start? I don't know, I'm not getting paid (massive money) to make these decisions!

[boatshed bill]

VK didn't have to rebuild a squad this summer either

With all due respect he did have to; he put a squad together very quickly and at a profit, but 6 were loans.

[Safron]

Yep, I get all that.
But I think there is a business plan in there, unfortunately keeping the fans happy in the short term doesn't necessarily feature very strongly in it.

Oh yes I can see 20000 home fans coming off the turf thinking it's ok just think of the plan! Get real it's embarrassing making up excuses every week for how poor we have managed our chances at premier League football, embarrassing!

[DCWat]

Clearly he did though because half the main players who we had last season either left, injured for the majority or simply not good enough atm.

Jay not good enough
Taylor not good enough
Cullen not good enough
Roberts not good enough
Brownhill barely good enough
Al Dakhil not good enough yet
Zaroury not good enough yet

Benson and Ekdal injured all season
Beyer missed half the season but looks a success imo

Who’s left?

JBG - does OK but what does it say for our recruitment of so many wingers that he’s still getting picked out wide?

[boatshed bill]

Oh yes I can see 20000 home fans coming off the turf thinking it's ok just think of the plan! Get real it's embarrassing making up excuses every week for how poor we have managed our chances at premier League football, embarrassing!

I'm not saying I like it. It just seems very much how things are right now.

[Westleigh]

Fair point;

Has he learnt though? I'm not sure. I'm not sure that I'd trust him with a budget again.

I really don't like (have been vocal about this for a while) how much of our club we have tied up in one person.

I'd like a bit more ownership of the mess from the manager and boardroom I think. Maybe put some away travel on for a game for a thanks of continued support in a historicly bad start? I don't know, I'm not getting paid (massive money) to make these decisions!

Terrible substitutions Koleosho was running them silly and had the fullback on toast takes him off and all of a sudden they score 2 goals coming from their right hand side .

[BurnleyFC]

Whatever way you look at it, the strategy has gone out of the window.

We’d make money on some but on the flip side would make a loss on more.

[spt_claret]

Dyche didn’t have to build a new squad over 12 months though, he inherited players like Ings Trippier Marney Vokes and slowly built around that core.

Kompany inherited Brownhil, Taylor, Roberts, Gudmundsson, and an aging Cork, Jay and Barnes.
All of those except Taylor had long stretches as regulars last season, and this season Gudmundsson, Brownhill, Taylor and of late Jay are all regulars and Roberts was until his red.
He inherited players too, and his current core is built around them.

It's fair to say learning time but he's regressing his use of subs is getting worse and worse.

Today he subs amdouni, fair given he'd not done much, but brings on Ramsey a midfielder, but doesn't change the shape or setup, just expects him to play out of position. Obafemis a forward, Larsen's played there in his career but like how he plays Redmond as a Second Striker he puts Ramsey up there instead.

Gudmundsson had done okay but let's say you want to shore things up defensively with Cullen, okay, fair enough. But he doesn't move Ramsey to the wing, he sticks Brownhill out there when he'd never impressed wide right under Dyche. Cullen's struggled in a two man midfield this year so he puts him in that spot again and has two players out of position. It's absurdly naive, that's not shoring things up or game management or changing approach, it's square pegs round holes. Which is actually worse than the last couple games where we were desperate for right handed pace and some more mobility in the centre, had players on the bench who could offer that, but he instead fixated on like for likes for our most dangerous two players Koleosho and Amdouni and it killed our momentum.

He's not learning, I'd venture to say he's going backwards. A strange mix of stubbornness and confusing substitutions without a clear change of gameplan or positional logic.

Can't sack him because everything's been built in his image and I don't know who would take the job or be able to manage such a young squad but I seriously struggle to see what Kompanys doing right this season, which is stunning to me after how good he seemed last season. It's like he's undone and unlearned everything that worked.

[Sheedyclaret]

13 games in and still don’t no our best settled side it’s a mess

[Safron]

I'm not saying I like it. It just seems very much how things are right now.

Unfortunately I don't see a turning point,I got optimistic today thinking only 8 mins left we can see this out, and yet again we collapse under pressure. It's got to the point now that you only have to be a real optimist to hope we can stay up , to every realist we are down unfortunately.

[boatshed bill]

Unfortunately I don't see a turning point,I got optimistic today thinking only 8 mins left we can see this out, and yet again we collapse under pressure. It's got to the point now that you only have to be a real optimist to hope we can stay up , to every realist we are down unfortunately.

Yes, I sympathise with those at the game, particularly today when it looked like we could at last win at home.
I just live in hope that with a bit of sensible investment we can stay in this league; and, if not, have built a platform for immediate return.

[bumba]

With all due respect he did have to; he put a squad together very quickly and at a profit, but 6 were loans.

We didn't need anywhere near the rebuild we have done. We needed to purchase players in positions we were short in.
We could of had a stronger team and spent half the cash

[getbennyon]

Against City we looked small, soft and toothless..nothing has changed as we enter Winter.

[bumba]

Clearly he did though because half the main players who we had last season either left, injured for the majority or simply not good enough atm.

Jay not good enough
Taylor not good enough
Cullen not good enough
Roberts not good enough
Brownhill barely good enough
Al Dakhil not good enough yet
Zaroury not good enough yet

Benson and Ekdal injured all season
Beyer missed half the season but looks a success imo

Who’s left?

Jay, Taylor, Cullen, Roberts, Brownhill, Zaroury, Ekdal and Beyer all in today's match day squad so haven't left or been replaced.

He needed replacements in certain areas, we didn't need to spunk £100 million on players in positions we didn't need or that can't even make our squad

[boatshed bill]

We didn't need anywhere near the rebuild we have done. We needed to purchase players in positions we were short in.
We could of had a stronger team and spent half the cash

Maybe, but he did have to find a serious number of replacements.

[bumba]

Maybe, but he did have to find a serious number of replacements.

Koleosho - £2 million
JBL - £2 million/loan
Townsend - free
Amdouni - £15 million
Redmond - free
Berge - £10 million
THB - £15 million
Left back - £15 million
Tella - £20 million

That would only be £80 million and we'd of been much stronger

[boatshed bill]

I get what you are saying, but:
Tella: did he want to come back, or were Southampton prepared to sell to us? We don't know.
Left Back: Who do we get for £15m? FWIW I do believe we tried very hard for Maatsen, he played us.
THB: Better than what we have? Questionable

[Stayingup]

We got relegated under the previous manager in his first PL season too. And his last btw.

We did but he didn't spend 100 million and was very unlucky on tge seco d relegation. By the way he got us into Europe.

[boatshed bill]

We did but he didn't spend 100 million and was very unlucky on tge seco d relegation. By the way he got us into Europe.

Our net spend over 3 windows is more like £90million

[bumba]

I get what you are saying, but:
Tella: did he want to come back, or were Southampton prepared to sell to us? We don't know.
Left Back: Who do we get for £15m? FWIW I do believe we tried very hard for Maatsen, he played us.
THB: Better than what we have? Questionable

If we stumped up the asking price for Tella early doors he'd be a Burnley player today, THB is a million miles ahead of O Shea, we tried hard for Maatsen but he wouldn't of solved anything we'd of conceded even more with him at left back but we can find a strong left back for £15 million

[spt_claret]

I get what you are saying, but:
Tella: did he want to come back, or were Southampton prepared to sell to us? We don't know.
Left Back: Who do we get for £15m? FWIW I do believe we tried very hard for Maatsen, he played us.
THB: Better than what we have? Questionable

Tella would absolutely have come if we'd bid enough at the start, Leverkusen weren't in the picture and nobody could predict a team which scraped Europe on goal difference would do what they're doing this season. It's fair to question if he was good value and I thought he seemed expensive at the time but I keep coming back to Tresor- 18m for an equally unproven older player who hasn't had a year to learn the system, and isn't a like for like. We didn't sign a replacement for him at all- unless you think that's Obafemi.

Quillindschy Hartman who we were linked with was valued at 10m in July, he's doubled that since but I was very excited by the link and would have had him over Maatsen back then.

It looks shocking business to spend a collective 28 million or so on Tresor and Odobert when they're barely making the bench, ones clearly for the future not close to now, the other looks like he's struggling to adapt and will need a lot of time too, when we had a ready-made winger available on a free in Townsend who was looking good on trial. Could have put that money towards one or two proper quality players.

Ditto Trafford this isn't a knock on him just a question of why sign another guy for the future for 14 rising to 19m, when we're a pass it from the keeper team and his style fits that less well than our existing keeper. If Kompany felt we needed to improve the keeper why didn't we sign an improvement for now who's as good or better with his feet when we're so obsessively wedded to this style?

None of it makes sense or is good strategy, it's not long term planning its worrying about tomorrow when you've got a problem today.

[BabylonClaret]

Kompany inherited Brownhil, Taylor, Roberts, Gudmundsson, and an aging Cork, Jay and Barnes.
All of those except Taylor had long stretches as regulars last season, and this season Gudmundsson, Brownhill, Taylor and of late Jay are all regulars and Roberts was until his red.
He inherited players too, and his current core is built around them.

It's fair to say learning time but he's regressing his use of subs is getting worse and worse.

Today he subs amdouni, fair given he'd not done much, but brings on Ramsey a midfielder, but doesn't change the shape or setup, just expects him to play out of position. Obafemis a forward, Larsen's played there in his career but like how he plays Redmond as a Second Striker he puts Ramsey up there instead.

Gudmundsson had done okay but let's say you want to shore things up defensively with Cullen, okay, fair enough. But he doesn't move Ramsey to the wing, he sticks Brownhill out there when he'd never impressed wide right under Dyche. Cullen's struggled in a two man midfield this year so he puts him in that spot again and has two players out of position. It's absurdly naive, that's not shoring things up or game management or changing approach, it's square pegs round holes. Which is actually worse than the last couple games where we were desperate for right handed pace and some more mobility in the centre, had players on the bench who could offer that, but he instead fixated on like for likes for our most dangerous two players Koleosho and Amdouni and it killed our momentum.

He's not learning, I'd venture to say he's going backwards. A strange mix of stubbornness and confusing substitutions without a clear change of gameplan or positional logic.

Can't sack him because everything's been built in his image and I don't know who would take the job or be able to manage such a young squad but I seriously struggle to see what Kompanys doing right this season, which is stunning to me after how good he seemed last season. It's like he's undone and unlearned everything that worked.

This

[BabylonClaret]

13 games in and still don’t no our best settled side it’s a mess

That's not quite true- we've played the same starting 11 for 3 games (league) and I think that's meant we look a bit more balanced and cohesive.

We might have turned the corner yesterday if VK hadn't tossed the game away with the baffling 3rd sub. Koleosho was flagging (understandable) and maybe JGB was too but bring on a wide player. Or if you want to shore it up use a defender???

The players looked done yesterday - they looked like Everton did after we came back to win 3-2. Hopefully we will end up turning it round like they did because after that game I thought those Everton players looked relegated

[ashtonlongsider]

The one commodity were short of is leaders. I didn't see too many yesterday or indeed this season. We could start with an experienced goalkeeper. There just might be one from Man Utd available come January. We definitely need one who can organise the back four in front of him.

[CrosspoolClarets]

That old manager who would easily have kept us up in this or prior seasons if he had spent £100m……

He now has a side valued at 350m of whom several players individually cost more than our record signing - e.g Mykolenko and Doucoure.

This season they have lost at home to Luton, Fulham, Wolves. Man Utd and Arsenal, drawing with Brighton and beating Bournemouth. 4 points. From a much easier set of games to us. Away they have 10 points but we’d have 7 except for VAR atrocities.

Not denying they have done OK in recent away games and not denying our need of experience either, but this is a tough league and winning isn’t easy in the bottom half no matter the manager. I think we need to give ours a break.

[Burnley1989]

I hate mentioning Dyche but, give him that squad from last year and 100m, we might not be playing it out from the back and spending 45 minutes in our own half but we’d be solid and hard to beat