Burnley v West Ham - Player Ratings

[Nori1958]

Who is stu Francis? What are you even blabbering on about.

It wasn't a childish response it was a few facts that you backed up for me

So suggesting iam Trafford's dad ( not for the first time) isn't childish?

Stuey spoke more sense crushing his grapes than you two have ever done......

[jedi_master]

Just got back to Chesterfield thoroughly miserable and deflated after a really good performance today, in my opinion. The team is brittle like cinder toffee and you just knew WHU would win after the equaliser. Depressing.

Trafford 6
Vitinho 6
Beyer 6
O’Shea 6
Taylor 7
Berge 8
Brownhill 7
JBG 8
Amdouni 8 (his best game for us - outstanding. Needs a goal though).
Koleosho 8
Rodriguez 8

Ramsey 7 (thought he was very bright when he came on)

I think we haven’t a prayer of survival but I’m already excited for seeing these lads mutilate the Championship. I pray space holds his nerve and doesn’t sack Kompany - it’s a decision he would regret.

[Vino blanco]

From tv
Trafford 5 nothing to do in the first half, second half when he was called upon to do something he wasn't great.
Vitihno 6 ok going forward
O'Shea 6 struggling in the PL, though tried hard today
Beyer 7 played well enough
Taylor 7 another decent game
JBG 7 doesn't give the ball away and keeps it simple
Brownhill 5 huffed and puffed to no avail
Berge* 8 best player on the pitch
Amdouni 7 good link up play
Jayrod 6 showed heart and tried hard, but that's not enough for a striker in the PL
Koleosho 8 like JBG he should not have been subbed

Heartbreaking to lose that game after being 1 nil up after 84 mins but the team has no leaders, not enough know how on how to see a game out, and unfortunately the substitutions were nonsensical today.

[bumba]

So suggesting iam Trafford's dad ( not for the first time) isn't childish?

Stuey spoke more sense crushing his grapes than you two have ever done......

Get yourself a Horlicks and get some sleep

[Cirrus_Minor]

I rate based up the performance up to conceding.

Trafford 5
Vitinho 5
O'Shea 5
Beyer 6
Taylor 6
Gudmundsson 7
Brownhill 6
Berge 8
Amdouni 7
Koleosho 7
Rodriguez 7

Ramsey 6

[ksrclaret]

Trafford 6
Vitinho 6
O'Shea 6
Beyer 6
Taylor 6
Gudmundsson 7
Berge 7
Brownhill 6
Koleosho 7
Rodriguez 7
Amdouni 6

Ramsey 6

Kompany 3. His choice of substitutions were pitiful. He managed to lose us that game when we were looking fine.

Interesting to note that just about everyone associated the club appears to have give up on this season already and are focused on how we're going to walk the Championship next season. We really ought to have just set fire to that £100m.

[Boss Hogg]

Trafford 5 not commanding
Vitinho 6
O Shea 5 Champ standard
Beyer 6
Taylor 6
JBG 6
Berge 8 motm stood out
Brownhill 6
Koleosho 7 good game
Amdouni 7
Jay Rod 5 good pen though

Ramsey 5

Pointless subs that interrupted flow of game. We are a soft touch toothless and rudderless at the back. Breaking records now and not in a good way. Equalled the worst ever start at home in football league history. Plenty more to break at this rate including Derby’s.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Trafford 5 - did OK, was attempting to attack a couple of set pieces, got one away and flapped at another, but doesn’t feel convincing. Need to see the 1st goal on TV to see if he was culpable.
Vitinho 5 - also did OK, but when “under the pump” at the end of games he can fall apart spectacularly, giving away cheap corners, passing riskily into trouble, and getting turned or missing far post challenges. He is, sadly, a weak link.
O'Shea 5 - not much to do but what there was he was a tad shaky
Beyer 7 - got into trouble foraging out a couple of times but looked refined on the whole
Taylor 6 - generally solid and got forward with intent a couple of times. Can’t blame him for the goal, it was a cross flashing across that ended up in.
Gudmundsson 7 - understandable he was hooked at his age having played for Iceland but was class and we were worse without him
Brownhill 7 - won the midfield battle and his moving out of the engine room was inexplicable and, ultimately, self defeating
Berge 9 - on reflection he dominated against three high level midfielders and was the best player on the pitch again. Looks our best signing.
Amdouni 7 - great feet, always gets a shot on target, needs a goal but looks on the cusp of being a great player
Koleosho 8 - forced a good save, won one penalty, could have had another. Dangerous every week, uncommon with young wingers which is really exciting
Rodriguez 7 - good link up, great penalty, correct to tell Zeki it was going to be Jay to take. Many goals at this level so has the responsibility and should have won us 3 points.

Ramsey 6 - neat in tight areas and looks good but remains lightweight and gets mugged at times. Will be very good in time.

Kompany - 3 months ago now I called him an overthinking tinkerman, his biggest weakness in a very young and inexperienced manager, though one who is a great guy, has had excellent schooling and does a lot of things right. I think I was right about him. Today we started slow but were patient and gradually wore them down, deservedly went ahead. It would have been all credit to Kompany for that approach but the team started to tire and looked a bit panicky. What do teams do then? They switch a man to the back, or bring on experience. He did neither. Ekdal would have been ideal for Vitinho, moving O’Shea to give us an extra tall man for the Moyes-ball finish. Roberts an option too, had his shirt out but the mind was changed. He tinkered, putting on a young lad for one of our most dangerous attackers, instead of having three authentic midfielders (Cullen for Amdouni instead). He then tinkered again, moving Brownhill to the right wing, this immediately gave us back the Cullen / Berge double pivot which had been shown not to work before. Within 10 minutes, we were overrun and the game was (unluckily) gone.

I believe in Vinny. He will grow with every game. As will his players. I hope the board give him another year even if we go down. But these are tactical and personnel errors to compound the on-pitch naivety and lack of leadership and nous. It is a combination of these things why we are losing each game, closer though we seem to be getting.

[Dark Cloud]

Trafford 6 (an obvious attempt to be more commanding in his area, which wasn't entirely convincing!)
Vitihno 7
O'Shea 7
Beyer 7
Taylor 7
Brownhill 7
Berge 7
JBG 6
Al Doumi 7.
Jayrod 7
Koleosho 8

Ramsey 7

Everyone knew 1-0 was never going to be enough. Under Dyche yes, but with this team, never! We battled and we harried and we worked so bloody hard, but ultimately (imo) the game was lost by the substitutions which were probably down to tiredness, but which totally messed us up AND down to the 10/15 minutes between 70 and 85 minutes when West Ham were losing and chasing a goal and were open, exposed and vulnerable and the game became stretched we did have opportunities to capitalise and finish things, but sadly we didn't and the rest is. ...... another shitty (undeserved! ) defeat!

[Kilson810]

Trafford 5 - Flaps at crosses, dithers in possession and nearly passed it to a West Ham player. Absolutely zero presence.
Vit 6 - Decent enough, kept making inverted runs passed JBG which were promising but without much end result.
O'Shea 5 - One of the best performances for him I thought, so a score of 5 shows he's no where near up to this level.
Beyer 6 - Looks like he needs an experienced and reliable partner at the back.
Taylor 6 - Steady away

Brownhill 6 - Same as above.
Berge 8 - MOTM, Good individual performance, drove the ball forwards and looks comfortable in possession
JBG 7 - We looked lost when he came off.
Koleosho - 8 - needs that end product but he must terrify defenders.
Amdouni 7 - anonymous for parts of the game but sublime at other moment. Needs to be consistent

Jay 6 - Brave to take such a high pressure penalty, but we desperately need foster back. Got done on their second goal (not sure marking players in our box should be his job though)

Subs (no rating)
Ramsay - looked confident and promising
Zaroury - not sure he did anything bad or good?
Cullen - headless chicken.

[Jacob Rees Dogg]

Trafford 6 tries hard just not good enough for the prem
Vintinho 6 tries hard just not good enough for the prem
Taylor 6 tries hard but not enough quality
OShea 6 tries hard just not good enough for the prem
Beyer 5 tries hard just not good enough for the prem
Berge 7 mom
Brownhill 6.5 tries hard just not realistically good enough for the prem
JBG 6 6 tries hard just too old to be a winger in the prem
Koleosho 7
Amdouni 7
Jay 5 tries hard just too old for the prem

Vincent Kompany 3 tries hard to get it right just not good enough for the prem


You put a lot of work in there fella. But your scores are pretty accurate.

[watsonsclarets]

Trafford 5 - ok in the main scares the pants off defenders coming off his line I have not seen so many back slaps off defenders when a keeper comes out and Nervy punches it away.

Vitinho 5- ok in the future put one decent ball in which was not attacked

O'Shea 6- ok did ok on 1st contact. He let his man get ahead of the goal but he was the better defender. He not going to win the fans over.

Beyer 4- In possession he ok uses it well and made one decent carry- defensively very poor weak under contact - positionally quite poor partly at fault 1st goal he is a full-back at this level or at best a Right Centre back in a 3 is his best suit.

Taylor 5- Not a 90-minute performance his job is to deal with Kudos but he didn't in the end.

Gudmundsson 6- Showed bits in little pockets neat and tidy offered nothing outstidning but tracked and sat in shape.

Brownhill 6- works bloody hard but has no quality on the ball - He is not brave on the ball lacks power under contact and is not press-resistant enough to be a long-term player at this level.

Berge 8- Much better from him more consistent on both sides of the ball showed a bit of fight which has been my main worry with him - watched him 4/5 times last season he a streaky player but if he keeps that level bigger clubs may come circling

Amdouni 7- Found pockets between lines he is a breaker and has the ability to glide into position and beat his man 1v1- he can try too much at times but he got a bit of flair and caused West Ham issues with his connections. Unlucky not to score forced a save after creating his own chance.

Koleosho 7- Won the penalty and has decent burst and disguise in his running - can go both ways but currently lacks consistency which may come wants to make things happen - Ultra critical defensively let his man go a couple of times not sure if it was tactical and he tried to cheat but I suspect not given it was inconsistent.

Rodriguez 6- Worked hard not really a threat battle but up against it but held it when he could and allowed a platform.

Ramsey 5- A few nice runs but lacks polish- not convinced he was the right man to come on.

Ok, the performance was more cohesive on both sides of the ball - 1st goal was avoidable 2nd one well it was a quality ball. We still did not create enough but it was better than it had been.

[claretgilly]

Trafford 6 - not much to do but did it well. There was one flap, but this guy is not the issue in this team.

Vitinho 5 - he isn’t good enough defensively. I don’t know what Roberts has ever done wrong tbh and he’s better placed to help us see a game out at 1-0.
O’Shea 6
Beyer 6 - that wander into midfield only to lose the ball at 1-0 was mental. Game management.
Taylor 6

JBG 6
Brownhill 6 - must do better with that chance at the edge of the box at 1-0
Berge 7 - composed player, good signing
Koleosho 7 - another good signing with great potential

Amdouni 6 - I’m still not sure if he’s much good or not. He’s got something but needs to make better decisions
Rodriguez 6 - worked his socks off but he’s not the answer

The performance was fine but I won’t be drawn into this idea that we were particularly good or in control. Passing it about (mostly backwards) in your own half does not constitute dominating play and is in fact exactly what West Ham, and Palace last game, expected/wanted us to do. I felt far more engaged with Dyche’s squads and style of play and I honestly think we looked more threatening against sides like this. Penalty(ies) aside we again didn’t offer very much today.

Thought we defended the dangerous set pieces well but both goals look soft. We are severely lacking experience and leadership in the squad. The game management at 1-0 in the situation we’re in was incredibly poor. I don’t know who’s in charge of recruitment but it couldn’t have been more naive. Assume Kompany is a big part of it and he has to take a fair share of criticism if he ever thought that lot could keep us up. It could turn quite ugly next week. Unfortunately even with a win we are still cut adrift, whereas had we clung on today and potentially been on 10 points this time next week it’s a completely different story.

[quoonbeatz]

A tough one to take as this was probably as well as we've played this season, with some very good performances through the team. Naivety from players but mainly from the manager has cost us, with too many subs and the wrong ones to boot.

Trafford - 5 S. L. O. W. Didn't have much to do with his hands but with the ball at his feet he was painfully ponderous. And when you've just gone 2-1 down with 6 minutes left, you don't keep tapping it to the centre half, you get the ball up the pitch.

Vitinho - 6 OK
O'Shea - 6 didn't really see much wrong there today
Beyer - 6 same, although trying to take on 3 players and losing the ball is not what a centre half should be doing when you're 1 nil up
Taylor - 7 their first goal was about the first time Kudus got the better of him in the game, did really well today
Berge - 8 superb apart from not stopping the cross for the winner
Brownhill - 7 another to have a decent game, helped set our tempo with his usual energy
Amdouni - 7 way better from him, he found the pockets of space brilliantly at times and the chance he made for himself was a great bit of play. Should do better with the header though.
Gudmundsson - 7 mystifyingly subbed, was playing well and we needed his calming influence
Koleosho - 7 the end product still isn't quite there but with the ball at his feet, no full back wants him running at them. The first penalty shout is an appalling decision.
Rodriguez - 7 shame he lost Soucek at the end but you don't really want your striker marking him there. That aside this was as good as we've seen from Jay for a while, helps that he's had a decent run of starts.
Ramsey - 6 fine, looked bright.

The positive us that performances are clearly improving but that steepest of learning curves for players and manager is still biting. Incorrect and unnecessary substitutions lost us this game; we'd have been fine leaving the team as it was as there was still the energy and control there. They all have to learn from today and quickly, not least the boss.

[IanMcL]

Trafford 5 gives everyone the jitters
Vitihno 6
O'Shea 6
Beyer 6
Taylor 6
Brownhill 7
Berge 8
JBG 7
Amdouni 7.
Jayrod 7
Koleosho 8

Ramsey 7

Sad that we failed at the last, after an excellent performance.

[hoskinsgoalatswansea]

Trafford 4
Vitinho 5
O'Shea 4
Beyer 6
Taylor 5
Gudmundsson 5
Brownhill 4
Berge 8
Koleosho 7
Amdouni 7
Rodriguez 5

[HuncoatClaret]

Trafford 5 - ok in the main scares the pants off defenders coming off his line I have not seen so many back slaps off defenders when a keeper comes out and Nervy punches it away.

Vitinho 5- ok in the future put one decent ball in which was not attacked

O'Shea 6- ok did ok on 1st contact. He let his man get ahead of the goal but he was the better defender. He not going to win the fans over.

Beyer 4- In possession he ok uses it well and made one decent carry- defensively very poor weak under contact - positionally quite poor partly at fault 1st goal he is a full-back at this level or at best a Right Centre back in a 3 is his best suit.

Taylor 5- Not a 90-minute performance his job is to deal with Kudos but he didn't in the end.

Gudmundsson 6- Showed bits in little pockets neat and tidy offered nothing outstidning but tracked and sat in shape.

Brownhill 6- works bloody hard but has no quality on the ball - He is not brave on the ball lacks power under contact and is not press-resistant enough to be a long-term player at this level.

Berge 8- Much better from him more consistent on both sides of the ball showed a bit of fight which has been my main worry with him - watched him 4/5 times last season he a streaky player but if he keeps that level bigger clubs may come circling

Amdouni 7- Found pockets between lines he is a breaker and has the ability to glide into position and beat his man 1v1- he can try too much at times but he got a bit of flair and caused West Ham issues with his connections. Unlucky not to score forced a save after creating his own chance.

Koleosho 7- Won the penalty and has decent burst and disguise in his running - can go both ways but currently lacks consistency which may come wants to make things happen - Ultra critical defensively let his man go a couple of times not sure if it was tactical and he tried to cheat but I suspect not given it was inconsistent.

Rodriguez 6- Worked hard not really a threat battle but up against it but held it when he could and allowed a platform.

Ramsey 5- A few nice runs but lacks polish- not convinced he was the right man to come on.

Ok, the performance was more cohesive on both sides of the ball - 1st goal was avoidable 2nd one well it was a quality ball. We still did not create enough but it was better than it had been.

Spot on!

[AGENT_CLARET]

Trafford 6
Vitinho 4
O'Shea 4
Beyer 6
Taylor 5
Gudmundsson 5
Brownhill 4
Berge 8
Koleosho 7
Amdouni 6
Rodriguez 5

Kompany 3

[RHansburyEsq]

Trafford - 5 slows everything down. On set pieces we are at least now trying things to protect him more but that we have to do that tells its own story
Vitinho - 6 Pleasantly surprised how he’s done since coming in
O'Shea - 6 OK
Beyer - 6 We look a better team with him in but has a mistake in him
Taylor - 7 Did pretty well
Berge - 8 Our best player
Brownhill - 7 Whilst he is limited on the ball we are better with his energy in midfield
Amdouni - 6 Better than has been and influenced the game much more than previously.
Gudmundsson - 7 Experience benefits the team
Koleosho - 7 Makes things happen
Rodriguez - 6 put the pen away and got stuck in but got done for the winner

Obviously the late goals were a kick in the guts. Still fuming though that if you go through the team man for man the only player who is an improvement from last year is Berge and in several key positions we are much worse.

[burnley007]

Trafford 6 just doesn't seem to be in charge, so defenders panic.
Vitinho 7 really so shocked at his improvement, did not see that coming.
Taylor 7 solid
Beyer 7 decent
O Shea 6 does the basics OK
Berge 9 best performance of the season from a Burnley player, did NOT deserve to be a loser.
Brownhill 7 does all the leg work alongside the awesome Berge
Koleosho 7 Didn't get too much chance to run at the fullback, but still won 1 (should be 2) penalty
Amdouni 8 If he had a proper Premier League player infront of him, he would be even better
JBG 6 Not up to his recent standards.
Rodriguez 5 Going into the season with 3 strikers who weren't good enough the Chumpionship is shambolic

Ramsey 6 Showed some excellent skills, there's a player in there somewhere.

[Ric_C]

Trafford 5 - Get him out of the team please, I can't watch him dither and flap around anymore
Vitinho 6 - Did ok, but he's essentially our reserve utility player from last season playing right back in the premier league
O'Shea 5 - Does ok for a while, but then does something stupid or careless. I cannot wait for Ekdal to be in this team.
Beyer 6 - ok
Taylor 6 - Point off for the poor last 10 mins
Gudmundsson 7 - Linked up play well, was finding space on the break before being subbed. Bizarre decision to take him off
Berge 7 - Our best midfielder today
Brownhill 6 - ok
Koleosho 7 - Won a pen, could have got another, could have scored 2 more
Rodriguez 7 - Though it was Jays best game for a while today.
Amdouni 7 - Need more end product from him, but he is a joy to watch at times

Ramsey 6 - Some good bits, but gets brushed off the ball far too easily

Once the subs came on, we had a really weird spell of play up until their goal, it's as if we didn't know what to do when 1-0 up. Rash clearances, poor decision making, needless passes back to the keeper. As Dyche said about Everton once.. "lads, these lot don't know how to win"

[MDWat]

Trafford 6 - instils little confidence. Very soft at corners. Some painfully slow distribution
Vitinho 7 - thought he was pretty decent again
O’Shea 6 - defended reasonably for the most part, unlucky own goal
Beyer 6 - the only genuine class in our defence
Taylor 6 - would need to see the goal back but thought he was generally fine
Berge 8* - particularly second half, he was excellent
Brownhill 7 - covered the hard yards
JBG 6 - fine, experience told
Amdouni 7 - a genuine nonsense that he was subbed off
Koleosho 8 - excellent performance
Rodriguez 6 - worked hard, but criminal at the end

Ramsey 7 - strong, kept the ball well

[strayclaret]

Trafford 6
Vitinho 5
O'Shea 6
Beyer 6
Taylor 6
Guðmundsson 7
Brownhill 6
Berge 8
Koleosho 7
Amdouni 7
Rodriguez 6
It’s a long time since I’ve felt like this the day after a match winning performance for 85 minutes. The substitutions certainly made the difference

[Jamesy]

Trafford 5- It’s getting a bit like the girlfriend you chased and chased. She finally agrees to go out with you and then you realise she isn’t as special as you thought she would be. You persevere for far too long instead of dumping her because you feel sorry for her.
He is the worst goalkeeper we have had for years and I do feel sorry for him. But like the girlfriend, he needs dumping. In a nice way of course. Or hope he picks up a knock during the warm up before the Sheffield United game.

Vitinho 6- I don’t think he is a genuine right back but he did ok.
O’Shea 6- Thought he was reasonable today. He has got a rick in him but it can’t be easy playing in this defence.
Beyer 6- Again reasonable. Could have cost us when he went on that marauding run and lost the ball on the half way line.
Taylor 6- Blowing a bit at the end.
Gudmundsson 7- Agree with other posters, why was he subbed?
Berge 8- The one real breath of fresh air in the side. Good signing.
Brownhill 6- This lad needs to practice his corners and keeping the ball down in shooting practice. Pardon the pun but the ball from that effort of his in the second half is still rolling down Brownhill Avenue.
Koleosho 7- He was a threat and got just about fouled enough for the penalty. Would have been harsh on them if both had been given.
Rodriguez 7- Did his best and is only as good as the service he gets which wasn’t a great deal. Calmness personified with the penalty.
Amdouni 6- He has got potential but not really delivering at present.

Subs: Collectively 5
Kompany 5. - I still like Vincent Kompany the man. However, Vincent Kompany the manager is not learning.

[Big Vinny K]

Trafford 5 - didn’t have much to do but what still managed to make players and crowd nervous and frustrated. Why is he taking so long with almost every ball that comes to him ? I just don’t get it - it gives the opposition time to regroup, get back or decide to press us. It makes zero sense as if they are trying to break the press and get an overload it never ever works with our current full backs.
Vitinho 5 - decent game v Arsenal but back to just not being good enough for this league (same as Roberts)
O'Shea 5 - lucky that Ings was completely ineffective
Beyer 6 - played well and even though he did lose it when carrying it out in second half he was very close to beating that 3rd man and then we were away with the overload of players this brings when it works.
Taylor 7 - really good first half and decent second half too.
Guðmundsson 7 - played well like rest of midfield
Brownhill 7 - as above
Berge 8 - best player on pitch for me
Koleosho 7 - dangerous but end product still lacking. Doesn’t look like he can score too many either - which given he’s often our biggest threat is an issue.
Amdouni 7 - came too in second half especially. Unless the fitness monitor thing was saying he needed to come off I don’t get why he was subbed when he had just found a bit of confidence
Rodriguez 7 - best game for a while. But dead on his feet in last 15.

Ramsay - 6. Thought he did well.

I will never understand in a million years why we did not bring 2 of Larsen, Redmond or Obafemi on when they went in the lead. There was 7 or 8 minutes left. There is simply no explanation or sense to this.

[ashtonlongsider]

Don't normally get too despondent after a defeat because I can see the 'bigger picture' and the improvement we're making game on game. However I am still devastated, yesterdays result was so undeserved. We played really well for 80 minutes. The substitutions cost use, no doubt in my mind. You could see the momentum swing and it took us an age to organise ourselves after three of our best players on the day were subbed.

Trafford 5-Hardly anything to do and what he did do didn't fill me with confidence
Vitihno- 4-Can't for the life of me understand how he keeps getting selected.
O'Shea 5-Along with Vitinho is a major weak link imo.
Beyer 7-He's had better but when he's got a better partner.
Taylor 7-He had an excellent first half
Brownhill 8-Worked tirelessly. He must have certainly impressed the opposing manager.
Berge 8-He had a very good first half
JBG 7-Another solid game from one of the few experienced players on the pitch for us.
Amdouni 7-Cuased them no end of problems at times.
Jayrod 7-He worked his socks off both ofensively and helping out at the back.
Koleosho 8*-Game changer him being subbed. Yes, he may have been tiring but he ket their defence on their toes.

Ramsey 7-The lad's cameo impressed me.

[MDWat]

Trafford 5 - didn’t have much to do but what still managed to make players and crowd nervous and frustrated. Why is he taking so long with almost every ball that comes to him ? I just don’t get it - it gives the opposition time to regroup, get back or decide to press us. It makes zero sense as if they are trying to break the press and get an overload it never ever works with our current full backs.
Vitinho 5 - decent game v Arsenal but back to just not being good enough for this league (same as Roberts)
O'Shea 5 - lucky that Ings was completely ineffective
Beyer 6 - played well and even though he did lose it when carrying it out in second half he was very close to beating that 3rd man and then we were away with the overload of players this brings when it works.
Taylor 7 - really good first half and decent second half too.
Guðmundsson 7 - played well like rest of midfield
Brownhill 7 - as above
Berge 8 - best player on pitch for me
Koleosho 7 - dangerous but end product still lacking. Doesn’t look like he can score too many either - which given he’s often our biggest threat is an issue.
Amdouni 7 - came too in second half especially. Unless the fitness monitor thing was saying he needed to come off I don’t get why he was subbed when he had just found a bit of confidence
Rodriguez 7 - best game for a while. But dead on his feet in last 15.

Ramsay - 6. Thought he did well.

I will never understand in a million years why we did not bring 2 of Larsen, Redmond or Obafemi on when they went in the lead. There was 7 or 8 minutes left. There is simply no explanation or sense to this.

We’d already made 3 subs is the very simple explanation to this

[rincon]

Trafford 6
Vitihno 6
O'Shea 6
Beyer 6
Taylor 7
Brownhill 7
Berge 8
JBG 7
Amdouni 7.
Jayrod 8
Koleosho 8

Lacking premier league 'nouse' to keep losing games we should have won. If the fans don't turn, Kompany can still do it, however, I'd dread us going behind next week, if the fans start booing

[Big Vinny K]

We’d already made 3 subs is the very simple explanation to this

Haha !
Didn’t realise that !!

In itself probably a big mistake to not save a substitution if they took the lead - which let’s be honest is not the biggest surprise based on the season we are having.

[MDWat]

Haha !
Didn’t realise that !!

In itself probably a big mistake to not save a substitution if they took the lead - which let’s be honest is not the biggest surprise based on the season we are having.

Agreed. I think most people are of the view that our substitutions lost us the game.

[Rileybobs]

Loads of comments about Trafford’s ‘dithering’ and him being marked down because of it. Did anyone notice the incident in the first half when Trafford was stood on the ball inviting the press from West Ham and the crowd got restless and started shouting at him to speed up. He forced a pass and he either put it out of play or put one of our players under pressure. VK was signalling to Trafford to calm down and slow down - essentially telling him to ignore the noise from the crowd.

He’s obviously told to slow down in possession and encourage the opposition to press and therefore increase our passing options. In fact, I’m almost certain that the incident resulting in our penalty started from Trafford being calm and composed in possession and playing through the press. I really don’t understand why people can’t see that this is so obviously a part of our game plan, and marking Trafford down for carrying out instructions is just bizarre.

[Nori1958]

Loads of comments about Trafford’s ‘dithering’ and him being marked down because of it. Did anyone notice the incident in the first half when Trafford was stood on the ball inviting the press from West Ham and the crowd got restless and started shouting at him to speed up. He forced a pass and he either put it out of play or put one of our players under pressure. VK was signalling to Trafford to calm down and slow down - essentially telling him to ignore the noise from the crowd.

He’s obviously told to slow down in possession and encourage the opposition to press and therefore increase our passing options. In fact, I’m almost certain that the incident resulting in our penalty started from Trafford being calm and composed in possession and playing through the press. I really don’t understand why people can’t see that this is so obviously a part of our game plan, and marking Trafford down for carrying out instructions is just bizarre.

The other problem was lack of movement ahead of him, even the defenders had the same problem when they had the ball, but the Trafford haters don't see that, all the back line were ponderous on the ball, the only option would have been a big punt upfield, but they are obviously under instructions not to do that.

[Rileybobs]

In fact, didn’t the chance where Rodriguez slide the ball across the box for Amdouni also come from us playing through the press via Trafford, which is essentially what we need to do to get Berge into the game in the opposition’s half?

[Bordeauxclaret]

Loads of comments about Trafford’s ‘dithering’ and him being marked down because of it. Did anyone notice the incident in the first half when Trafford was stood on the ball inviting the press from West Ham and the crowd got restless and started shouting at him to speed up. He forced a pass and he either put it out of play or put one of our players under pressure. VK was signalling to Trafford to calm down and slow down - essentially telling him to ignore the noise from the crowd.

He’s obviously told to slow down in possession and encourage the opposition to press and therefore increase our passing options. In fact, I’m almost certain that the incident resulting in our penalty started from Trafford being calm and composed in possession and playing through the press. I really don’t understand why people can’t see that this is so obviously a part of our game plan, and marking Trafford down for carrying out instructions is just bizarre.

Yes, clearly a tactic to try and draw a couple of players out of position.

[RVclaret]

Loads of comments about Trafford’s ‘dithering’ and him being marked down because of it. Did anyone notice the incident in the first half when Trafford was stood on the ball inviting the press from West Ham and the crowd got restless and started shouting at him to speed up. He forced a pass and he either put it out of play or put one of our players under pressure. VK was signalling to Trafford to calm down and slow down - essentially telling him to ignore the noise from the crowd.

He’s obviously told to slow down in possession and encourage the opposition to press and therefore increase our passing options. In fact, I’m almost certain that the incident resulting in our penalty started from Trafford being calm and composed in possession and playing through the press. I really don’t understand why people can’t see that this is so obviously a part of our game plan, and marking Trafford down for carrying out instructions is just bizarre.

Agree. It’s the most obvious tactical instruction there is. Proper clueless most fans.

[quoonbeatz]

You'd have to have not watched us for 18 months to not know that's our tactic. There were plenty of times where it worked brilliantly yesterday but there were times when he was put under pressure, not by the crowd but by taking too long so that most of the outfall were cut off.

As with Muric last season, it's an experience thing and I think Trafford is getting better at it. Knowing when to speed it up and slow it down will come but he's not there yet.

[CoolClaret]

Inviting the press is great and all but there are times where we have a better option straight out to a midfielder that I think a certain goalkeeper would have no problem with finding first time like.

Not every passage of play has to be a slow pass out right?

[Rileybobs]

You'd have to have not watched us for 18 months to not know that's our tactic. There were plenty of times where it worked brilliantly yesterday but there were times when he was put under pressure, not by the crowd but by taking too long so that most of the outfall were cut off.

As with Muric last season, it's an experience thing and I think Trafford is getting better at it. Knowing when to speed it up and slow it down will come but he's not there yet.

Yet by a number of the comments a lot of people obviously don’t know that’s our tactic.

I thought we were pretty seamless at playing out from Trafford yesterday - certainly the most effective and error-free we’ve been so far this season. In fact, had the game ended in the 86th minute I’m sure we’d be seeing ratings of 7,8 and 9’s across the board rather than 4’s and 5’s

[taio]

Trafford was fine yesterday. A few people are just desperate to find fault.

[Rileybobs]

Inviting the press is great and all but there are times where we have a better option straight out to a midfielder that I think a certain goalkeeper would have no problem with finding first time like.

Not every passage of play has to be a slow pass out right?

When Berge and Brownhill are stood static in this position they are not looking to receive the ball and Trafford is obviously under instruction to not attempt it. The opposition want that pass because they are ready to either cut it out or pounce on the midfielder when they receive it. I’m not saying we shouldn’t try to play more directly through the lines at times, just that it’s not on Trafford that we don’t.

[CoolClaret]

When Berge and Brownhill are stood static in this position they are not looking to receive the ball and Trafford is obviously under instruction to not attempt it. The opposition want that pass because they are ready to either cut it out or pounce on the midfielder when they receive it. I’m not saying we shouldn’t try to play more directly through the lines at times, just that it’s not on Trafford that we don’t.

For sure -

I just don’t think he has the passing range nor vision to make linebreaking passes like.

I understand the tactic to invite the press, though I can’t say it’s leading to many goal scoring opportunities right now.

[Rileybobs]

For sure -

I just don’t think he has the passing range nor vision to make linebreaking passes like.

I understand the tactic to invite the press, though I can’t say it’s leading to many goal scoring opportunities right now.

Oh definitely, we’re not creating enough chances. But as I stated above, I’m pretty sure our penalty, and our best move of the game when Jay slid the ball across to Amdouni started from us beating the press.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Trafford 6
Vitinho 7
O'Shea 6
Beyer 7
Taylor 7
Guðmundsson 7
Brownhill 7
Berge 8
Koleosho 7
Amdouni 7
Rodriguez 6

Ramsey 6

[jlup1980]

Trafford 6
Vitinho 5
Taylor 7
O'Shea 7
Beyer 7
Brownhill 7
Berge 8
JBG 7
Koleosho 8
Amdouni 7
Jay 7

Kompany 3

Moving Brownhill from CM was absolutely brain-dead and lost us the game. Horrendous management and you seriously have to wonder how much longer this can go on. Lose to Sheff Utd next weekend (which I believe we will going off last season) and Pace might be forced into making a decision that was unthinkable in August.

[Jamesy]

Trafford was fine yesterday. A few people are just desperate to find fault.

He did miss one aerial ball by a fair distance if you remember? He wasn’t terrible yesterday but looks frightened to death and doesn’t dominate his 6 yard box.
Doesn’t matter though. VK will continue selecting him.

[taio]

He did miss one aerial ball by a fair distance if you remember? He wasn’t terrible yesterday but looks frightened to death and doesn’t dominate his 6 yard box.
Doesn’t matter though. VK will continue selecting him.

I didn't expect a flawless performances from him. If that was the case I would have said Trafford was much better than fine. He wasn't so I think fine was a fair description.

[Jamesy]

I didn't expect a flawless performances from him. If that was the case I would have said Trafford was much better than fine. He wasn't so I think fine was a fair description.

Fair point.

[quoonbeatz]

Yet by a number of the comments a lot of people obviously don’t know that’s our tactic.

I thought we were pretty seamless at playing out from Trafford yesterday - certainly the most effective and error-free we’ve been so far this season. In fact, had the game ended in the 86th minute I’m sure we’d be seeing ratings of 7,8 and 9’s across the board rather than 4’s and 5’s

Agreed, worked the best it has this season. I think the main example of when it wasn't as slick as it could be was was when Taylor was in acres and Trafford saw him and looked to play it, then checked back for a shorter pass, then decided to go to longer to Taylor, by which time he had a man bearing down on him and had to come all the way back.

As I said though, we had similar with Muric, it will come.

[Swizzlestick]

With the obvious caveat of being in the league below, I thought Muric was pretty adept at quickly seeing those passes almost from the off. The other failings in his game are well documented but Vinny really needs to look at this now.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Yet by a number of the comments a lot of people obviously don’t know that’s our tactic.

I thought we were pretty seamless at playing out from Trafford yesterday - certainly the most effective and error-free we’ve been so far this season. In fact, had the game ended in the 86th minute I’m sure we’d be seeing ratings of 7,8 and 9’s across the board rather than 4’s and 5’s

On the stats thread I observed a few weeks ago that we may do better against Palace, Sheffield, Everton, West Ham and Forest (and others I have forgotten) because they don’t press us aggressively in that area so it gives our possession chance to develop.

I think we have seen that subsequently, one mistake and / or finishing are the only reasons we lost these last two home games. The playing out has been fine and we have dominated all but Everton in the cup. Worryingly lost, but that is another issue.

I agree with the point on Trafford but would note caution that it may not be the case against all teams when that hesitancy could still be exploited.