What are Pace & The Board thinking now?

[Holtyclaret]

There’s a lot of irony in that though isn’t there. VK has signed what 33-34 players since becoming manager, yet the following players (ageing/ little resale) are featuring heavily in the premier league:

Roberts, Taylor, Brownhill, Jay, JBG

Dyche needed a smattering of younger talent (like McNeil) bringing in, but his model was the most efficient at staying in this league.

Dyche was relegated in his first pl season while he found his formula and squad balance.

VK inherited pretty much no players so has had to build a squad twice in effect.

Jay wouldn’t be at the club if his contract ran out last summer and Roberts is currently understudy rb. JBG AND Brownhill playing well and adding some experience to our v young team. Taylor filling a void but by playing curbs the desired style of the team and will be replaced at first opportunity (not saying he hasn’t helped massively short term).

Not bashing Dyche but both managers have had/are having similar starts to their tenures.

[Elizabeth]

Hopefully they are not thinking on going out and buying more young footballers with future potential in the January window. We've got more than enough of them as it stands

[brexit]

So then you have to ask why wasn’t he given £100m?

The plausible explanations (in my view of likelihood):

1. The money didn’t exist then. Possibly because investment needed to be directed to the takeover or because nobody wanted to invest in Dyche or the football we were playing at the time. MTB clearly stated it was easier securing investment when the team were ’doing well’. Maybe in that sense Kompany earned his investment.

2. The money did exist but Pace didn’t trust Dyche to spend it. I refer back to the point about Garlick. Maybe they couldn’t agree on the type of players they wanted to sign.

3. The money did exist but Dyche chose not to spend it. Unlikely but plausible because I think Dyche was very loyal to his players.

I agree that Pace could & should have done more to secure longer contracts for Mee & Pope, but I think Tarks mind was made up some time earlier given the interview he gave. Although we shouldn’t have had our two main CBs contracts expiring at the same time in the first place.

I don’t agree that £100m has been ****ed up the wall at all btw

Or VK has a stake in the club and the project is about selling players at a profit?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

https://mol.im/a/12810559

Worth a read from the Daily Mail

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Or VK has a stake in the club and the project is about selling players at a profit?

He doesn’t have a stake in the club
He has a stake/owns the company that’s done the scouting

[Newcastleclaret93]

Dyche was relegated in his first pl season while he found his formula and squad balance.

VK inherited pretty much no players so has had to build a squad twice in effect.

Jay wouldn’t be at the club if his contract ran out last summer and Roberts is currently understudy rb. JBG AND Brownhill playing well and adding some experience to our v young team. Taylor filling a void but by playing curbs the desired style of the team and will be replaced at first opportunity (not saying he hasn’t helped massively short term).

Not bashing Dyche but both managers have had/are having similar starts to their tenures.

There starts are not even remotely similar. Dyche didn’t inherit a squad that spent 6 seasons in the premier league and he wasn’t given 30-40m to spend in the championship.

He went up spending nothing, was given next to nothing in the prem and was relegated.

This is a completely different realm.

[NewClaret]

Or VK has a stake in the club and the project is about selling players at a profit?

Quite possible. Nor would I be against that.

It’s very common for senior employees to buy or be gifted shares in the companies they work for and are easily bought back when they leave.

[Holtyclaret]

There starts are not even remotely similar. Dyche didn’t inherit a squad that spent 6 seasons in the premier league and he wasn’t given 30-40m to spend in the championship.

He went up spending nothing, was given next to nothing in the prem and was relegated.

This is a completely different realm.

Stop turning it into dyche v vk. I like them both just very different styles and now eras.

Which bit of vk literally not having any players (he didn’t inherit a squad, they’d left/been sold) and had to start from scratch do you struggle with? Hence the spend which in modern realms is v little for what was it in his first two windows, 20 odd players including loans.

What is very similar is that both were promoted and both might be relegated and then we hope promoted again before sticking in the pl. potentially carbon copy paths to pl stability via very different methodology.

[Wokingclaret]

The difference is Holtyclaret, there was an expectation this season rightly or wrongly, there wasn't back in the day of Dyche's first prem season, hope yes!

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Stop turning it into dyche v vk. I like them both just very different styles and now eras.

Which bit of vk literally not having any players (he didn’t inherit a squad, they’d left/been sold) and had to start from scratch do you struggle with? Hence the spend which in modern realms is v little for what was it in his first two windows, 20 odd players including loans.

What is very similar is that both were promoted and both might be relegated and then we hope promoted again before sticking in the pl. potentially carbon copy paths to pl stability via very different methodology.

This is a good point

There’s an opinion that a manager needs 3-4 windows to overhaul the squad at a steady rate, once the manager has spent time getting to know who he’s got and where he thinks those players may or may not fit into his plans

Players to sell, some leave on a free, others retire etc and all need to be replaced gradually

VK didn’t have that Iuxury of time

[Exsus]

I'd like to think that The Board has never even thought about anything but giving VK their full unwavering support during this disappointing start and continuing to do so.
Just a few months ago in May, everybody on this forum thought VK was the Messiah and could do no wrong
I cannot understand now the numbers ( who have probably never played footy for decades ) on this forum who are screaming for him to go.
Fairweather fans.
We are a very young inexperienced squad who have had a EPL baptism of fire and dealt with it admirably and courageously.
I have never seen any heads dropping or any lack of commitment, enthusiasm or energy even when losing at home or away.
We will turn it all around starting Saturday v Blades.
The commitment of VK, his staff and squad will get us back up the league to safety.

Bring back Lancaster Claret , his Bull*** was better than this

[Exsus]

I'd like to think that The Board has never even thought about anything but giving VK their full unwavering support during this disappointing start and continuing to do so.
Just a few months ago in May, everybody on this forum thought VK was the Messiah and could do no wrong
I cannot understand now the numbers ( who have probably never played footy for decades ) on this forum who are screaming for him to go.
Fairweather fans.
We are a very young inexperienced squad who have had a EPL baptism of fire and dealt with it admirably and courageously.
I have never seen any heads dropping or any lack of commitment, enthusiasm or energy even when losing at home or away.
We will turn it all around starting Saturday v Blades.
The commitment of VK, his staff and squad will get us back up the league to safety.

Bring back Lancaster Claret , his Bull*** was better than this

[Jakubclaret]

Given there was recent investment of c£160m in the BFC holding companies I’m pretty sure that Pace has access to funds to pay Kompany off if he wants to. I just don’t think he wants to and nor would it be a decision I’d support.

On the leverage, nobody knows whether we have any leverage any longer. Or our financial position at all, really. It’s all a bit pointless debating when it’s something we know nothing about.

We did get good service from Tarks, Mee & Pope but 2 left on frees, one left on what I thought was a shocking fee, but passingly because he had one year left. Which was bad management. There’s no doubt about it, we were left with aging players running their contracts down & very few saleable assets which I was negligent. I mainly blame Garlick but Dyche also for not bringing younger players in.

I disagree that Kompany’s “hasn’t revolutionised much”. He’s completely transformed our transfer strategy from one that was pretty much non-existent and focused on signing old pros from Stoke to signing young, technically gifted players from Europe and developing them. I also disagree that “the signs so far haven’t looked good”. I think they’ve been excellent in the main, particularly on the attacking side. Willing to place a hefty wager that many of the current crop will sell for more than the maximum we received for any player last summer (£20m for Collins I think).

If things are so brilliant & the signs are good it does beg the question what the hell are we doing at the bottom of the league table we are there for a reason & it's not because we are good, "attacking side" seriously we can't score & please don't blame it all on LF missing, he spent £15 mil or so on a keeper we don't need that money could have gone on another striker. the players that left on free transfers wouldn't extend I guess he could have sold them & we would have been relegated it's a solution of some sorts.

[Boss Hogg]

Given there was recent investment of c£160m in the BFC holding companies I’m pretty sure that Pace has access to funds to pay Kompany off if he wants to. I just don’t think he wants to and nor would it be a decision I’d support.

On the leverage, nobody knows whether we have any leverage any longer. Or our financial position at all, really. It’s all a bit pointless debating when it’s something we know nothing about.

We did get good service from Tarks, Mee & Pope but 2 left on frees, one left on what I thought was a shocking fee, but passingly because he had one year left. Which was bad management. There’s no doubt about it, we were left with aging players running their contracts down & very few saleable assets which I was negligent. I mainly blame Garlick but Dyche also for not bringing younger players in.

I disagree that Kompany’s “hasn’t revolutionised much”. He’s completely transformed our transfer strategy from one that was pretty much non-existent and focused on signing old pros from Stoke to signing young, technically gifted players from Europe and developing them. I also disagree that “the signs so far haven’t looked good”. I think they’ve been excellent in the main, particularly on the attacking side. Willing to place a hefty wager that many of the current crop will sell for more than the maximum we received for any player last summer (£20m for Collins I think).

The signs so far ..’ they’ve been excellent in the main ‘.
Come off it. No they havn’t.

[KRBFC]

. Dyche didn’t inherit a squad that spent 6 seasons in the premier league and he wasn’t given 30-40m to spend in the championship.

He went up spending nothing, was given next to nothing in the prem and was relegated.

This is a completely different realm.

You’re proper clueless.

VK inherited a team that spent 6 consecutive years in the PL did he?

You’re not a BFC fan, I can tell by that post. You’re an angry rival fan who was complaining about our spending last season despite not knowing the facts like we lost 17 players, brought in 70£m in sales. Go on tell us we bought the league title….

Dyche inherited a better more stable Championship squad than VK did, he just brought out the true potential in that team better than Howe did. Ings Trippier Shackell Vokes Mee Marney Austin. It took Dyche months to develop and mould us into the team we became, if it were up to you Dyche would have been sacked during his first 10 games and the same with VK.

[AlargeClaret]

Reading some posts on here I’m reminded of “ Comical Ali” the Iraq minister who was broadcasting live that “ everything is ok and the Americans are committing suicide “ With explosions and tanks coming into view behind him .

[NewClaret]

The signs so far ..’ they’ve been excellent in the main ‘.
Come off it. No they havn’t.

Do you really want me to run through all of VK’s signings, their cost and comment on how well they’ve done?

It’d be a long list of hugely promising players. We got promoted with a lot of them on 101 points last year.

Each and every one of them got better as the season wore on and all of this years signings will do the same but are already an improvement on what we had last year with the possible exception of Trafford and O’Shea vs Muric & THB. But Trafford is a stronger shot stopper and O’Shea a lot faster than THB which I think would catch him out in the Prem with our style (+ he was £13m more).

What they all have in common is that they’re young and inexperienced so do make mistakes, but as burnley007 wrote the other day, I’m still enjoying watching them develop even if the results are not what we all want.

[NewClaret]

If things are so brilliant & the signs are good it does beg the question what the hell are we doing at the bottom of the league table we are there for a reason & it's not because we are good, "attacking side" seriously we can't score & please don't blame it all on LF missing, he spent £15 mil or so on a keeper we don't need that money could have gone on another striker. the players that left on free transfers wouldn't extend I guess he could have sold them & we would have been relegated it's a solution of some sorts.

Where did I say everything is brilliant and the signs are so good?

I said the team was left in a **** state by the previous owners and manager. I think that’s more fact than opinion; a complete rebuilding job was required.

I then said that it’s unfair to say Kompany “hasn’t revolutionised much” when it’s quite clear he’s revolutionised our whole style of play and transfer strategy.

If you’re going to disagree with me, at least disagree with me on the points I’m making.

[Newcastleclaret93]

You’re proper clueless.

VK inherited a team that spent 6 consecutive years in the PL did he?

You’re not a BFC fan, I can tell by that post. You’re an angry rival fan who was complaining about our spending last season despite not knowing the facts like we lost 17 players, brought in 70£m in sales. Go on tell us we bought the league title….

Dyche inherited a better more stable Championship squad than VK did, he just brought out the true potential in that team better than Howe did. Ings Trippier Shackell Vokes Mee Marney Austin. It took Dyche months to develop and mould us into the team we became, if it were up to you Dyche would have been sacked during his first 10 games and the same with VK.

It’s a fact, he inherited a squad that spent 6 years in the prem (you can’t seriously be trying to deny history).

So it’s Dyches fault that pace sold, Cornet, Collins, McNeil, etc… that he let Tarks and mee contract run down. That he decided to let a 15m pound striker leave on loan?

We can spin it however we want but the reality is that squad had 6 years in the prem and they decided to sell a load of talent to rebuild with young players.

[Jakubclaret]

Where did I say everything is brilliant and the signs are so good?

I said the team was left in a **** state by the previous owners and manager. I think that’s more fact than opinion; a complete rebuilding job was required.

I then said that it’s unfair to say Kompany “hasn’t revolutionised much” when it’s quite clear he’s revolutionised our whole style of play and transfer strategy.

If you’re going to disagree with me, at least disagree with me on the points I’m making.

The general theme of your posts are everything is rosy in the garden when serious structural problems are there, how you can constantly think things are great when the team is anchored at the bottom is beyond me it's nothing short of abysmal. Pace has been the catalyst for revolutionising because he's instructed kompany to follow the model which will yield more financial return based on the development going to plan. Kompany inherited a solid foundation the legacy which dyche had left. I'm still of the belief we would have retained our PL status keeping dyche in situ even more so with the rescue act he performed at everton who you could argue were in a worse place than us with DCL crocked & the embargo.

[Jamesy]

Reading some posts on here I’m reminded of “ Comical Ali” the Iraq minister who was broadcasting live that “ everything is ok and the Americans are committing suicide “ With explosions and tanks coming into view behind him .

Nice one!

[KRBFC]

It’s a fact, he inherited a squad that spent 6 years in the prem (you can’t seriously be trying to deny history).

So it’s Dyches fault that pace sold, Cornet, Collins, McNeil, etc… that he let Tarks and mee contract run down. That he decided to let a 15m pound striker leave on loan?

We can spin it however we want but the reality is that squad had 6 years in the prem and they decided to sell a load of talent to rebuild with young players.

How did he inherit a squad that spent 6 years in the PL when he probably never met half of that squad? I don’t think VK ever met Tarkowski face to face.

Who said it was Dyches fault all of those players left? They were sold to fund debt, that wasn’t VKs fault or decision. You’re using it as a stick to beat VK with, down playing his promotion because “he inherited a PL squad” which is complete b*llocks.

Also downplaying our promotion because we spent 30-40m, whilst ignoring he had to build an entire squad with that.

[NewClaret]

The general theme of your posts are everything is rosy in the garden when serious structural problems are there, how you can constantly think things are great when the team is anchored at the bottom is beyond me it's nothing short of abysmal. Pace has been the catalyst for revolutionising because he's instructed kompany to follow the model which will yield more financial return based on the development going to plan. Kompany inherited a solid foundation the legacy which dyche had left. I'm still of the belief we would have retained our PL status keeping dyche in situ even more so with the rescue act he performed at everton who you could argue were in a worse place than us with DCL crocked & the embargo.

What are the serious structural problems?

We won the league at a canter last season, have kept nearly all those players and have strengthened significantly since. That foundation and squad strength is there, it’s not like we’ve lost all the players that brought us up.

We have a hugely exciting and young team who are just not quite up to PL level yet. Previously we had an aging and frankly deteriorating team who were also not up to PL level in the end. I’d rather have a young up and coming one than the opposite.

We also have a good young manager who has admittedly made mistakes but is learning his trade. Dyche wasn’t an instant success at this level either so you have to ask: who would be doing a better job now?

And we’re playing much better style of football just ineffective at this level at the moment. We do need to be better, no doubt about that, but there are signs we are getting improving.

I wouldn’t say Pace was the catalyst for revolutionising because not much changed under Dyche in Pace’s early transfer windows with him as manager. They kept going for the more established pro’s. Kompany had a clear philosophy of buying and developing young talent. I think Pace just backs his managers, but he probably found a shared vision with Kompany’s approach which is why I don’t think we’ll sack him (nor do I want to).

I definitely think they are both learning and are probably quickly realising why Dyche’s approach was pragmatic and sensible. I expect they’ll adapt it though.

I don’t think Dyche would’ve kept us up. Our results improved immeasurably after he left. Although given the outcome was the same anyway I sort of wish we’d been left to find out so it was not a point of debate. I think he’d lost the dressing room by that point and Mee and others have alluded to that.

He’s doing very well at Everton having inherited a squad stronger than the one he left here. I think it’s half a billion or something that Moshiri spent on that squad which puts in to context our £96m.

[Big Vinny K]

Some absolute boll-ocks being posted here.

Dyche would have kept us up? Despite failing to even score a goal in the 3 games against the teams below us.

VK only got us promoted because he spent £30m - £40m.
Yep let’s leave out the tiny points that we brought in more than twice that in selling our best players or that VK reduced the wage bill from £92m to less then £30m.

The bed wetting on here this season has been at tsunami levels.

[Jakubclaret]

What are the serious structural problems?

We won the league at a canter last season, have kept nearly all those players and have strengthened significantly since. That foundation and squad strength is there, it’s not like we’ve lost all the players that brought us up.

We have a hugely exciting and young team who are just not quite up to PL level yet. Previously we had an aging and frankly deteriorating team who were also not up to PL level in the end. I’d rather have a young up and coming one than the opposite.

We also have a good young manager who has admittedly made mistakes but is learning his trade. Dyche wasn’t an instant success at this level either so you have to ask: who would be doing a better job now?

And we’re playing much better style of football just ineffective at this level at the moment. We do need to be better, no doubt about that, but there are signs we are getting improving.

I wouldn’t say Pace was the catalyst for revolutionising because not much changed under Dyche in Pace’s early transfer windows with him as manager. They kept going for the more established pro’s. Kompany had a clear philosophy of buying and developing young talent. I think Pace just backs his managers, but he probably found a shared vision with Kompany’s approach which is why I don’t think we’ll sack him (nor do I want to).

I definitely think they are both learning and are probably quickly realising why Dyche’s approach was pragmatic and sensible. I expect they’ll adapt it though.

I don’t think Dyche would’ve kept us up. Our results improved immeasurably after he left. Although given the outcome was the same anyway I sort of wish we’d been left to find out so it was not a point of debate. I think he’d lost the dressing room by that point and Mee and others have alluded to that.

He’s doing very well at Everton having inherited a squad stronger than the one he left here. I think it’s half a billion or something that Moshiri spent on that squad which puts in to context our £96m.

That's a misguided myth that mee & the other's had chucked the towel in because on that mission to burnley series mees attitude couldn't have been any more different than the scenario you have described. If Everton's team was any stronger than ours they certainly wouldn't have signed O'Neil & JT from us I think that's 1 of the first things they did when our fate was sealed. The style of football will mean very little at the end of the season if it does end up with relegation, people won't be saying in the street well weren't burnley unlucky to be relegated they'll be saying it was on the cards for awhile because different tactics & team selection needed altering, the signs suggest anything but improvement the results are steadily deteriorating & that's against the teams you would normally expect to get something from.

[Newcastleclaret93]

How did he inherit a squad that spent 6 years in the PL when he probably never met half of that squad? I don’t think VK ever met Tarkowski face to face.

Who said it was Dyches fault all of those players left? They were sold to fund debt, that wasn’t VKs fault or decision. You’re using it as a stick to beat VK with, down playing his promotion because “he inherited a PL squad” which is complete b*llocks.

Also downplaying our promotion because we spent 30-40m, whilst ignoring he had to build an entire squad with that.

Given half of his starting eleven are currently players from the Dyche era that kind of defeats your point.

I didn’t say it was VKs fault? If anything I blame that on the owners, but you can’t deny he did inherit that squad and unfortunately for him the owners decided to sell them, this is why we are in this situation.

[nyclaret]

I do wonder whether Newcastleclaret will ever be satisfied as a Claret. It would've been entertaining to see him post during the 14 game winless run under Cotterill

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I do wonder whether Newcastleclaret will ever be satisfied as a Claret. It would've been entertaining to see him post during the 14 game winless run under Cotterill

Some people enjoy misery

[NewClaret]

Some people enjoy misery

This is very true

[BurnleyFC]

I do wonder whether Newcastleclaret will ever be satisfied as a Claret. It would've been entertaining to see him post during the 14 game winless run under Cotterill

My memory wishes it was ‘only’ fourteen games!

Wasn’t it nineteen?

[KRBFC]

My memory wishes it was ‘only’ fourteen games!

Wasn’t it nineteen?

I thought 18, was definitely longer than 14 though

[nyclaret]

I thought 18, was definitely longer than 14 though

Even worse then!

[NewClaret]

Some people enjoy misery

Although every club has them. Here’s Delia’s take on Norwich boo boys:

https://x.com/pinkun/status/1730474308617818431?s=46

Imagine the state of this board if Pace said this

[Quickenthetempo]

You’re proper clueless.

VK inherited a team that spent 6 consecutive years in the PL did he?

You’re not a BFC fan, I can tell by that post. You’re an angry rival fan who was complaining about our spending last season despite not knowing the facts like we lost 17 players, brought in 70£m in sales. Go on tell us we bought the league title….

Dyche inherited a better more stable Championship squad than VK did, he just brought out the true potential in that team better than Howe did. Ings Trippier Shackell Vokes Mee Marney Austin. It took Dyche months to develop and mould us into the team we became, if it were up to you Dyche would have been sacked during his first 10 games and the same with VK.

How can you claim he's not a Burnley fan, then say he wanted Dyche sacked during his first 10 games?

Come on lad, if you want to argue full time on the Internet.

[Boss Hogg]

Do you really want me to run through all of VK’s signings, their cost and comment on how well they’ve done?

It’d be a long list of hugely promising players. We got promoted with a lot of them on 101 points last year.

Each and every one of them got better as the season wore on and all of this years signings will do the same but are already an improvement on what we had last year with the possible exception of Trafford and O’Shea vs Muric & THB. But Trafford is a stronger shot stopper and O’Shea a lot faster than THB which I think would catch him out in the Prem with our style (+ he was £13m more).

What they all have in common is that they’re young and inexperienced so do make mistakes, but as burnley007 wrote the other day, I’m still enjoying watching them develop even if the results are not what we all want.

This thread is about the now not last season. The ‘signs so far’ about this season and many of the last window signings are not great.

[CnBtruntru]

Anybody interested in a Premier League football club?

[NewClaret]

This thread is about the now not last season. The ‘signs so far’ about this season and many of the last window signings are not great.

Okay, if you say so Boss Hogg

[spt_claret]

Prefix: I don't think we should sack Kompany.

I seriously disagree that Dyche inherited a better team than Kompany. Dyche's team were championship journeymen, Charlie Austin (who he lost 6 months later), and 3 unproven youngsters- Ings, Trippier, Mee. Kompany may have lost a number of players before he stepped foot through the door like Bardsley, Pieters, Vydra, Mee, Tarkowski. Plus Cornet, Pope, Collins & McNeil earmarked to go right away, and Weghorst's loan obligation, but he still inherited the following players with multiple years in the Premier League:

Taylor
Brownhill
Gudmundsson
Lowton (chose to move him on rather than use him)
Barnes (aging, past his best)
Jay (aging, past his best)
Cork (aging, past his best)
Westwood (injured, shipped out in January, possibly wouldn't have been able to recover 100%)
Hennessey (aging, past his best, moved him on ASAP)
Kevin Long (never a PL player but had played there, got moved on)
And Roberts had had 1 season in the Prem.

There is no way you can slice it that, even with a number of those players being aging, that doesn't look better than a team of unproven and injured Bournemouth youth Danny Ings, unproven Man City academy fullbacks Ben Mee & Kieran Trippier, graft over talent Dean Marney, et cetera. We were Championship mid table for the previous 3 years. Kompany's decision to overhaul the team radically was a very successful one don't get me wrong, but there is an argument that, while a refresh was needed, a couple of more seasoned heads like Lowton could have been kept in the side to help tide things over, and I still think Weghorst would have been worth keeping this season if he was willing to mend fences and knuckle down (big if).

The concern I have is we are MORE reliant on Dyche's men now, than we were last season. There's even people thinking Cork could be the answer to our woes still.

I also don't get how people still brand us as an attacking team this season. We're not. Attacking teams score goals and create chances. We do neither, we're a possession team. Possession can be defensive as much as offensive- keep the ball and you stop the other team scoring, unless you make a mistake (which we do, a lot). We don't play with much incisiveness, our tempo is often sluggish and slow, we very rarely look to get shots away, we'll overwork or turn back and move back through the zones often, on the occasions we DO step it up going more 'direct' (as in direct for goal, not long ball just not faffing around with possession) we look better but we do it maybe 15 minutes a game if that.

We are ranked 19th in the league for number of shots, despite 10th for touches and 11th for passes. Joint bottom for hitting the woodwork. Bottom for goals, 17th for big chances missed suggesting we've not even squandered all that many opportunities relative to our output. We are 19th on xG, and a long way behind 18th. Those are not the stats of an attacking team, attacking teams have more output in terms of shots and goals. We're a possession hogging team and it's arguably our main defensive tactic- we're only 8th for number of saves made despite having conceded the 2nd most goals only 2 behind Sheffield, we are 19th for tackles only Man City with their constant possession are lower. It's such a myth that we're an attacking team this season.

And 'better football' is and always has been subjective. A lot would say the best football is the style that wins and I'm inclined to agree. I certainly never shared the 'anti-football' sentiment about us from 2017 to 2020 when we made Europe and got a 10th place finish, we weren't full of dynamic flair but we were a ruthlessly efficient wolfpack, you could see how well drilled and tactically sharp every player was and there were times even against big guns like Chelsea I found myself enjoying watching us shut them down and control the game without needing to control possession, it was a different style of enjoyment to the glamorous, flashy goal fest of last year or of Coyle's promotion (or indeed Dyche's title win season), but it wasn't 'bad football' or 'not proper football'.

[boyyanno]

What are the serious structural problems?

We won the league at a canter last season, have kept nearly all those players and have strengthened significantly since. That foundation and squad strength is there, it’s not like we’ve lost all the players that brought us up.

We have a hugely exciting and young team who are just not quite up to PL level yet. Previously we had an aging and frankly deteriorating team who were also not up to PL level in the end. I’d rather have a young up and coming one than the opposite.

We also have a good young manager who has admittedly made mistakes but is learning his trade. Dyche wasn’t an instant success at this level either so you have to ask: who would be doing a better job now?

And we’re playing much better style of football just ineffective at this level at the moment. We do need to be better, no doubt about that, but there are signs we are getting improving.

I wouldn’t say Pace was the catalyst for revolutionising because not much changed under Dyche in Pace’s early transfer windows with him as manager. They kept going for the more established pro’s. Kompany had a clear philosophy of buying and developing young talent. I think Pace just backs his managers, but he probably found a shared vision with Kompany’s approach which is why I don’t think we’ll sack him (nor do I want to).

I definitely think they are both learning and are probably quickly realising why Dyche’s approach was pragmatic and sensible. I expect they’ll adapt it though.

I don’t think Dyche would’ve kept us up. Our results improved immeasurably after he left. Although given the outcome was the same anyway I sort of wish we’d been left to find out so it was not a point of debate. I think he’d lost the dressing room by that point and Mee and others have alluded to that.

He’s doing very well at Everton having inherited a squad stronger than the one he left here. I think it’s half a billion or something that Moshiri spent on that squad which puts in to context our £96m.

"We are playing a much better style of football it's just ineffective".

What a load of nonsense. We played the style we did under Dyche because it was the most effective. In a nutshell that's the difference between good management and bad. You're trying to have thinly veiled digs at the old regime and yet that post perfectly demonstrates the issue doesn't it.

Style over substance.

[Big Vinny K]

Prefix: I don't think we should sack Kompany.

I seriously disagree that Dyche inherited a better team than Kompany. Dyche's team were championship journeymen, Charlie Austin (who he lost 6 months later), and 3 unproven youngsters- Ings, Trippier, Mee. Kompany may have lost a number of players before he stepped foot through the door like Bardsley, Pieters, Vydra, Mee, Tarkowski. Plus Cornet, Pope, Collins & McNeil earmarked to go right away, and Weghorst's loan obligation, but he still inherited the following players with multiple years in the Premier League:

Taylor
Brownhill
Gudmundsson
Lowton (chose to move him on rather than use him)
Barnes (aging, past his best)
Jay (aging, past his best)
Cork (aging, past his best)
Westwood (injured, shipped out in January, possibly wouldn't have been able to recover 100%)
Hennessey (aging, past his best, moved him on ASAP)
Kevin Long (never a PL player but had played there, got moved on)
And Roberts had had 1 season in the Prem.

There is no way you can slice it that, even with a number of those players being aging, that doesn't look better than a team of unproven and injured Bournemouth youth Danny Ings, unproven Man City academy fullbacks Ben Mee & Kieran Trippier, graft over talent Dean Marney, et cetera. We were Championship mid table for the previous 3 years. Kompany's decision to overhaul the team radically was a very successful one don't get me wrong, but there is an argument that, while a refresh was needed, a couple of more seasoned heads like Lowton could have been kept in the side to help tide things over, and I still think Weghorst would have been worth keeping this season if he was willing to mend fences and knuckle down (big if).

The concern I have is we are MORE reliant on Dyche's men now, than we were last season. There's even people thinking Cork could be the answer to our woes still.

I also don't get how people still brand us as an attacking team this season. We're not. Attacking teams score goals and create chances. We do neither, we're a possession team. Possession can be defensive as much as offensive- keep the ball and you stop the other team scoring, unless you make a mistake (which we do, a lot). We don't play with much incisiveness, our tempo is often sluggish and slow, we very rarely look to get shots away, we'll overwork or turn back and move back through the zones often, on the occasions we DO step it up going more 'direct' (as in direct for goal, not long ball just not faffing around with possession) we look better but we do it maybe 15 minutes a game if that.

We are ranked 19th in the league for number of shots, despite 10th for touches and 11th for passes. Joint bottom for hitting the woodwork. Bottom for goals, 17th for big chances missed suggesting we've not even squandered all that many opportunities relative to our output. We are 19th on xG, and a long way behind 18th. Those are not the stats of an attacking team, attacking teams have more output in terms of shots and goals. We're a possession hogging team and it's arguably our main defensive tactic- we're only 8th for number of saves made despite having conceded the 2nd most goals only 2 behind Sheffield, we are 19th for tackles only Man City with their constant possession are lower. It's such a myth that we're an attacking team this season.

And 'better football' is and always has been subjective. A lot would say the best football is the style that wins and I'm inclined to agree. I certainly never shared the 'anti-football' sentiment about us from 2017 to 2020 when we made Europe and got a 10th place finish, we weren't full of dynamic flair but we were a ruthlessly efficient wolfpack, you could see how well drilled and tactically sharp every player was and there were times even against big guns like Chelsea I found myself enjoying watching us shut them down and control the game without needing to control possession, it was a different style of enjoyment to the glamorous, flashy goal fest of last year or of Coyle's promotion (or indeed Dyche's title win season), but it wasn't 'bad football' or 'not proper football'.

Can’t disagree with much of that.

You do have to give Eddie Howe some credit though. Austin was one of the best strikers in the league.
He bought Tripps and Ben Mee from City. There was more pedigree and experience there than you are suggesting. Mee had played for England u21s and had a loan spell at Leicester and Tripps had a loan spell at Barnsley where he was very highly rated - think he may have been made skipper. I may be wrong but I worked with Barnsley fan who was gutted when we signed him and said he was far too good for them and would play for England.

Dyche did work miracles undoubtedly though - Heaton, Arfield and Jones all on a free and developed so many others into fantastic players. And I agree the football we played with the likes of Ings, Vokes, Tripps etc was every bit as good as anything I have seen in the last 50 years of supporting Burnley.

All that said I enjoyed last season immensely too. So the conclusion is as you have intimated - if your team is winning you enjoy it !!

[boyyanno]

Prefix: I don't think we should sack Kompany.

I seriously disagree that Dyche inherited a better team than Kompany. Dyche's team were championship journeymen, Charlie Austin (who he lost 6 months later), and 3 unproven youngsters- Ings, Trippier, Mee. Kompany may have lost a number of players before he stepped foot through the door like Bardsley, Pieters, Vydra, Mee, Tarkowski. Plus Cornet, Pope, Collins & McNeil earmarked to go right away, and Weghorst's loan obligation, but he still inherited the following players with multiple years in the Premier League:

Taylor
Brownhill
Gudmundsson
Lowton (chose to move him on rather than use him)
Barnes (aging, past his best)
Jay (aging, past his best)
Cork (aging, past his best)
Westwood (injured, shipped out in January, possibly wouldn't have been able to recover 100%)
Hennessey (aging, past his best, moved him on ASAP)
Kevin Long (never a PL player but had played there, got moved on)
And Roberts had had 1 season in the Prem.

There is no way you can slice it that, even with a number of those players being aging, that doesn't look better than a team of unproven and injured Bournemouth youth Danny Ings, unproven Man City academy fullbacks Ben Mee & Kieran Trippier, graft over talent Dean Marney, et cetera. We were Championship mid table for the previous 3 years. Kompany's decision to overhaul the team radically was a very successful one don't get me wrong, but there is an argument that, while a refresh was needed, a couple of more seasoned heads like Lowton could have been kept in the side to help tide things over, and I still think Weghorst would have been worth keeping this season if he was willing to mend fences and knuckle down (big if).

The concern I have is we are MORE reliant on Dyche's men now, than we were last season. There's even people thinking Cork could be the answer to our woes still.

I also don't get how people still brand us as an attacking team this season. We're not. Attacking teams score goals and create chances. We do neither, we're a possession team. Possession can be defensive as much as offensive- keep the ball and you stop the other team scoring, unless you make a mistake (which we do, a lot). We don't play with much incisiveness, our tempo is often sluggish and slow, we very rarely look to get shots away, we'll overwork or turn back and move back through the zones often, on the occasions we DO step it up going more 'direct' (as in direct for goal, not long ball just not faffing around with possession) we look better but we do it maybe 15 minutes a game if that.

We are ranked 19th in the league for number of shots, despite 10th for touches and 11th for passes. Joint bottom for hitting the woodwork. Bottom for goals, 17th for big chances missed suggesting we've not even squandered all that many opportunities relative to our output. We are 19th on xG, and a long way behind 18th. Those are not the stats of an attacking team, attacking teams have more output in terms of shots and goals. We're a possession hogging team and it's arguably our main defensive tactic- we're only 8th for number of saves made despite having conceded the 2nd most goals only 2 behind Sheffield, we are 19th for tackles only Man City with their constant possession are lower. It's such a myth that we're an attacking team this season.

And 'better football' is and always has been subjective. A lot would say the best football is the style that wins and I'm inclined to agree. I certainly never shared the 'anti-football' sentiment about us from 2017 to 2020 when we made Europe and got a 10th place finish, we weren't full of dynamic flair but we were a ruthlessly efficient wolfpack, you could see how well drilled and tactically sharp every player was and there were times even against big guns like Chelsea I found myself enjoying watching us shut them down and control the game without needing to control possession, it was a different style of enjoyment to the glamorous, flashy goal fest of last year or of Coyle's promotion (or indeed Dyche's title win season), but it wasn't 'bad football' or 'not proper football'.

This is a good post.

[boyyanno]

Churlinov - £5 million ish, contract expires 2026
Trafford - up to £15 million ish plus addons, contract expires 2027
Vitinho - fee unknown, rumoured to be £1-2 million, contract expires 2027
Twine - £4-5 million ish, contract until 2026
Bastien - £800k, contract until 2025

Twine was unfortunate with injury in his first season with us so he’s a year behind in development compared to the rest

They’re all of a good age and we won’t lose money on them, but I’d love to hear why you think we will

"We won't lose money on them"

[FCBurnley]

He doesn’t have a stake in the club
He has a stake/owns the company that’s done the scouting

If true then surely that is a conflict of interest

[FCBurnley]

Pace and the Board are only interested in making money just like all investors

[Westleigh]

If true then surely that is a conflict of interest

Yes ,and if he leaves we won’t have a scouting system at all ,so that will be good want it ?

[Wokingclaret]

Pace and the Board are only interested in making money just like all investors

Then they should be very concerned as we are going down

[getbennyon]

Then they should be very concerned as we are going down

Many on here will disagree with that statement. Apparently, we are ahead in the 5-year project, although we will begin year 3 in the Championship in record levels of debt.