Criminal

[Quicknick]

Maybe SD was so much cleverer than what we gave him credit for - he "never attempted" to sign players that could change our style around and is that because he knew we never had the money to buy the quality required in EVERY position to properly change the style AND obviously get the results required to survive in the league.
That goal last night would not have happened with Pope / Mee and Tarks - SD made us hard to beat but not very dangerous/frightening at the other end where as apart from Sheff Utd on saturday we seem easy to score against and promising but not prolific at the other end - as per last night Wolves first clean sheet of the season !!!!!!

I'm sure SD did and still does.

[bumba]

You mention Al Dakhil but he started in every game up to and including Bournemouth. Thats 10 games. Benson started against Villa and did nothing.

He played some at right back which isn't fair on the lad, he only played four games at centre half with Beyer, one we won, one we drew, then two defeats one was unlucky against Man Utd and one away at Newcastle.
He needs a run alongside Beyer.
If every player deserved only one game to prove themselves or to get up to speed this whole squad would be unplayable now, Benson hasn't had a fair crack

[Vegas Claret]

As for quick to jump on the negative we've lost 12 out of 15 league games, at what point is it ok to point out the obvious?
Were on track to go down as one of the worst teams in premier league history

just a few months after being one of the best teams ever in the league below. Not making a single excuse for VK or the club, everyone acknowledges there were too many mistakes in the summer but it seems staggering your lack of acknowledgement as to how tough the PL is. We aren't remotely close to being one of the worst PL teams, the PL has got better and better year after year - unless of course you know more than all the ex pro's, current pros', ex managers and current managers who tell us about it every week ?

[claretonthecoast1882]

I wish we had a manager who knew half as much as his critics on here, we would be top 4

[RicardoMontalban]

Isn’t the whole point of playing out from the back is that it is meant to be a bit hairy? You’re trying to invite the press to draw the opposition out and create space further up the pitch and all that. That ball to Berge/Cullen is the bait, but it does depend on Berge not controlling it like Liam Robinson.

Better teams than us do it and muck it up, and we have steadily got better at it at this level, and do mix it up much more, knowing when to change tack etc. But the risk is always going to be there though

[bumba]

just a few months after being one of the best teams ever in the league below. Not making a single excuse for VK or the club, everyone acknowledges there were too many mistakes in the summer but it seems staggering your lack of acknowledgement as to how tough the PL is. We aren't remotely close to being one of the worst PL teams, the PL has got better and better year after year - unless of course you know more than all the ex pro's, current pros', ex managers and current managers who tell us about it every week ?

We're currently on target to finish in the top 5 lowest points tally in premier league history, I don't care what ex pros say that's the facts.
The premier league is tough but to think we have zero chance at all is bonkers. We've messed it up simple as that, the best team in the championship has never been given a chance and there is lies the problem!
The premier league is tough but the bottom half isn't anywhere near as good as the top half.
We could easily compete with 6/7 teams but we've failed in the summer

[CoolClaret]

Isn’t the whole point of playing out from the back is that it is meant to be a bit hairy? You’re trying to invite the press to draw the opposition out and create space further up the pitch and all that. That ball to Berge/Cullen is the bait, but it does depend on Berge not controlling it like Liam Robinson.

Better teams than us do it and muck it up, and we have steadily got better at it at this level, and do mix it up much more, knowing when to change tack etc. But the risk is always going to be there though

Of course but the point is if we can’t execute it to the level required and it’s costing us points then the risk isn’t worth the reward.

Better teams can get away with it because more often than not the risk pays off; just like it did for us last season.

There’s an argument to be made saying that eventually we might get good at it to the point where it’s a net benefit for us… with the obvious counter being how long will that take, how many more points will we lose in doing it?

(Not to mention the keeper we are playing right now isn’t comfortable playing under a heavy press but that’s been done to death)

[KRBFC]

Muric, Zaroury, Benson, Al Dakhil, Brownhill just got back in and done well.
They should all have started the first few games that's my point you can't replace them all how VK did then expect a positive outcome he upset the squad and it's showing. Where was the fight 2nd half yesterday?
It was the first time I'd watched and thought you know what there not fighting for him or don't believe his team talks anymore.
As for losing to Brighton Sheff Utd drew there, are you telling me we can only take points off Luton and Sheff Utd this season? The rest have been there longer than us...
Now who's the negative one me for pointing out the obvious after 12 defeats in 15 or you for saying we'll lose every game except four?

Benson missed all of preseason, started the 2nd game of the season and has been out since.
Zaroury got himself sent off in the first game.
Al Dakhil has played loads and looks out of his depth.
Cullen has featured loads too and also struggled. Now he’s injured.
Brownhill wasn’t fit to start earlier in the season (his brother told everyone on social media) since he’s started virtually every game.


I didn’t say we can only win four games, I just wouldn’t be crying on here if we don’t win away at Brighton.

[KRBFC]

Sheff United got a draw there.

After Brighton had played Thursday night in Europe and Brighton had ten men.

[KRBFC]

They haven’t been at this level longer.

Yes they have, this group is brand new to the PL bar a couple of players. The clubs achievement mean nothing in relevance if the squad has changed so much.

[jojomk1]

I wish we had a manager who knew half as much as his critics on here, we would be top 4

He certainly knows plenty about how to play at the top level

Unfortunately he seems to know a lot less in terms of signing his own players, picking the right team and playing the right tactics

[Blyclaret]

It’s very simple we are trying to play like ManCity
With Championship players. It’s simply not working. Standard in premier league is light years ahead of championship

[KRBFC]

one season in the PL because every single year we will need to get a number of results as the ‘underdog’.

There are more winnable games than Brighton away was my point, I wouldn’t be on here crying if we lost at Brighton. Unbelievably there were fans who threw their toys out of the pram after we lost narrowly at Arsenal, like they expected us to win

Finally you spoke some sense though, underdog is exactly what we are this year. Look at the league table, focus on the bottom 7, what do you see? Infact take Everton out because of their points deduction. What are you left with?

Fulham Bournemouth Forest Burnley Luton Sheff Utd.

the latest 6 promoted teams are the bottom 6. That is not a coincidence.

[KRBFC]

He certainly knows plenty about how to play at the top level

Unfortunately he seems to know a lot less in terms of signing his own players, picking the right team and playing the right tactics

Go on then Einstein, what are the right tactics? I thought we were really good first half.

[Blyclaret]

Also players like O Shea would be stand out performers in Championship. But not up to premier league standard.

[RicardoMontalban]

Of course but the point is if we can’t execute it to the level required and it’s costing us points then the risk isn’t worth the reward.

Better teams can get away with it because more often than not the risk pays off; just like it did for us last season.

There’s an argument to be made saying that eventually we might get good at it to the point where it’s a net benefit for us… with the obvious counter being how long will that take, how many more points will we lose in doing it?

(Not to mention the keeper we are playing right now isn’t comfortable playing under a heavy press but that’s been done to death)

I’d say we are improving at it though. Noticeably so, and we’re varying it much more. I’d also say Trafford has been improving there as well.

Last night was an epic clanger, sure, but for me hung on a bad touch from Berge.

[CoolClaret]

There are more winnable games than Brighton away was my point, I wouldn’t be on here crying if we lost at Brighton. Unbelievably there were fans who threw their toys out of the pram after we lost narrowly at Arsenal, like they expected us to win

Finally you spoke some sense though, underdog is exactly what we are this year. Look at the league table, focus on the bottom 7, what do you see? Infact take Everton out because of their points deduction. What are you left with?

Fulham Bournemouth Forest Burnley Luton Sheff Utd.

the latest 6 promoted teams are the bottom 6. That is not a coincidence.

Any of the bottom six teams or so are always going to be an underdog in this league, if we want to remain here for anything more than a seaosn we simply need to pick up results when we aren't favourites.

Really is that simple.

As to your last point re bottom 6/7 - looking at one data point to suggest it's the norm is a bit strange - Brentford came up, finished 13th then 9th and they're hardly this ginourmous team with a huge playing budget.

It's about showing if we can win points against 'superior'/'equal' opposition - which we absolutely have to in this league, so far in every attempt bar Forest away, we have failed.

[Jakubclaret]

Also players like O Shea would be stand out performers in Championship. But not up to premier league standard.

He wasn't the last time he was in the championship with west brom, don't get me wrong he wasn't a bad player but I'd hardly call him standout he was a relatively decent player. We would have faced competition to sign him & given his age the figure would have been over £10m

[CoolClaret]

I’d say we are improving at it though. Noticeably so, and we’re varying it much more. I’d also say Trafford has been improving there as well.

Last night was an epic clanger, sure, but for me hung on a bad touch from Berge.

But we aren't because ultimately the ******** up has cost us the game, then in the second half we couldn't score when a PL team sat off, which is a carbon copy of the United game...

I mean we're 15 games in, there's 23 left.

A team that's serious about staying in the league gets at least a point last night - Wolves were there for the taking.

[Jakubclaret]

But we aren't because ultimately the ******** up has cost us the game, then in the second half we couldn't score when a PL team sat off, which is a carbon copy of the United game...

I mean we're 15 games in, there's 23 left.

A team that's serious about staying in the league gets at least a point last night - Wolves were there for the taking.

Not just wolves you can literally pick half a dozen games where that applies & boy an extra 6 points at this point would have made all the difference. The concerning part for me appears to be there's no sense of urgency to get something from the games it's like going a goal behind & saying can we go home now.

[bumba]

Go on then Einstein, what are the right tactics? I thought we were really good first half.

Does it really matter how good you are first half if you still go in a goal down then fail to turn up for the second half?

[bumba]

Benson missed all of preseason, started the 2nd game of the season and has been out since.
Zaroury got himself sent off in the first game.
Al Dakhil has played loads and looks out of his depth.
Cullen has featured loads too and also struggled. Now he’s injured.
Brownhill wasn’t fit to start earlier in the season (his brother told everyone on social media) since he’s started virtually every game.


I didn’t say we can only win four games, I just wouldn’t be crying on here if we don’t win away at Brighton.

Al Dakhil is a full Belgium international our best results came with him at centre half with Beyer.
Zaroury probably got sent off due to being so wound up about being dropped.
Cullen has been a let down but the whole system last season suited him then we changed it for this season and it's not suited him.

[boyyanno]

I wish we had a manager who knew half as much as his critics on here, we would be top 4

Yes because what this board needs is no football discussion but the kind of sarcastic, no opinion, pointless gibbering that you come out with.

How about having an opinion on somthing other than what your fellow supporters think?

[Casper2]

Yes because what this board needs is no football discussion but the kind of sarcastic, no opinion, pointless gibbering that you come out with.

How about having an opinion on somthing other than what your fellow supporters think?

You are asking a bit too much of the resident bully there .

[Big Vinny K]

Al Dalkhil has really struggled this season. It’s completely irrelevant that he is a full Belgian international. Ekdal is a full international, O’Shea is…..
….Beyer isn’t and he’s our best centre back.

The goal last night was another bad mistake - it’s been shown many times this season that in this league we don’t have the quality of players to get through games playing the way we do without making a few big mistakes.

Since VK is not going to radically change our style then it’s going to come down to far better decision making as to in which situations we need to just hit it long and then at the other end we need to take more of big chances.

Wolves made exactly the same mistake as us and gave us a golden chance to score - the only difference was we missed ours and they scored.

[KRBFC]

Does it really matter how good you are first half if you still go in a goal down then fail to turn up for the second half?

Not really, you’re right we probably aren’t quite good enough to scrape the wins needed to survive this season. I think we can learn from the mistakes, come back stronger and better prepared though.

I think we’ve shown improvement over the last few games, desperately miss someone upfront (Foster). We’ve also played what? 14 games and still haven’t been able to see what I believe is our first choice CB pairing (Ekdal and Beyer) due to injuries.

It is what it is, I don’t see the reason to moan after every game though, just accept we are where we are in our development.

[bumba]

Not really, you’re right we probably aren’t quite good enough to scrape the wins needed to survive this season. I think we can learn from the mistakes, come back stronger and better prepared though.

I think we’ve shown improvement over the last few games, desperately miss someone upfront (Foster). We’ve also played what? 14 games and still haven’t been able to see what I believe is our first choice CB pairing (Ekdal and Beyer) due to injuries.

It is what it is, I don’t see the reason to moan after every game though, just accept we are where we are in our development.

It's the manner of defeats that bothers people, a lot of fans seem to think we're going to go down keep all the squad together and bounce straight back up. I can promise people now they'll be another fire sale and another rebuild.
Anybody who has impressed this season would be off either to fund the club or because they don't want to play championship football.
Amdouni, Koleosho, Foster, Tresor will want to play higher.
Bruun Larsson, Berge, Al Dakhil, Beyer, Brownhill, Cullen might not want a championship slog again.
Zaroury, Benson, Muric, Ekdal will want more minutes
JBG, Jay Rod, Cork and Taylor probably off at the end of the season anyway.
It's no guarantee we come back up, I wouldn't even be surprised if VK left too.

[Sozturf7]

Some of these posts are criminal.

[Westleigh]

It's the manner of defeats that bothers people, a lot of fans seem to think we're going to go down keep all the squad together and bounce straight back up. I can promise people now they'll be another fire sale and another rebuild.
Anybody who has impressed this season would be off either to fund the club or because they don't want to play championship football.
Amdouni, Koleosho, Foster, Tresor will want to play higher.
Bruun Larsson, Berge, Al Dakhil, Beyer, Brownhill, Cullen might not want a championship slog again.
Zaroury, Benson, Muric, Ekdal will want more minutes
JBG, Jay Rod, Cork and Taylor probably off at the end of the season anyway.
It's no guarantee we come back up, I wouldn't even be surprised if VK left too.

Tresor’s a cheeky bugger if he thinks he can play higher ,all the best players combine skill with effort ,I’ve seen more life in a tramps vest.

[boatshed bill]

,I’ve seen more life in a tramps vest.

That made me laugh a bit

[bumba]

Tresor’s a cheeky bugger if he thinks he can play higher ,all the best players combine skill with effort ,I’ve seen more life in a tramps vest.

I agree he's shocking but some on here will tell you what a player he is and I'm sure clubs in Europe would take him

[Vegas Claret]

It’s very simple we are trying to play like ManCity
With Championship players. It’s simply not working. Standard in premier league is light years ahead of championship

this

[Vegas Claret]

We're currently on target to finish in the top 5 lowest points tally in premier league history, I don't care what ex pros say that's the facts.

do you still use fire or have you moved on the electricity yet ? You don't seem to be able to work out what has happened in the PL specifically in the last 24 months

[bumba]

do you still use fire or have you moved on the electricity yet ? You don't seem to be able to work out what has happened in the PL specifically in the last 24 months

The quality has gone up because the money's gone up. We have gone up in a worst state before and still survived.
Excuse after excuse, it isn't good enough 15 games in and we are 7 points from Forest and 9(as it stands) from Bournemouth. Everton will be no where near so we can forget about them.
What has happened specifically in the PL in the last 24 months that makes it now impossible to survive? Maybe just close the league off then.

[Vegas Claret]

The quality has gone up because the money's gone up. We have gone up in a worst state before and still survived.
Excuse after excuse, it isn't good enough 15 games in and we are 7 points from Forest and 9(as it stands) from Bournemouth. Everton will be no where near so we can forget about them.
What has happened specifically in the PL in the last 24 months that makes it now impossible to survive? Maybe just close the league off then.

somewhere on another thread I listed the spends of the teams, the 100 million that we spent is absolutely **** all in comparison when you also take into consideration those teams started with better players before they spent. You crack on losing your **** though

[Casper2]

do you still use fire or have you moved on the electricity yet ? You don't seem to be able to work out what has happened in the PL specifically in the last 24 months

Fulham finished 10th last season , you know , newly promoted.

[CoolClaret]

somewhere on another thread I listed the spends of the teams, the 100 million that we spent is absolutely **** all in comparison when you also take into consideration those teams started with better players before they spent. You crack on losing your **** though

I mean, it’s not that simple is it? It’s not monopoly of top trumps.

We have done some smart business - some not so smart which is ultimately biting us on the arse.

We spent a bit last year after generating a few quid with our player sales - spent it very well in fact, and we still have players on our books at decent ages that we purchased in the prior regime for decent fees (Chaz, Brownhill).

I don’t think anyone serious is underestimating the quality of the league or how difficult it is, just frustrated/disappointed/hoped that we’d be a bit better.

[KRBFC]

Fulham finished 10th last season , you know , newly promoted.

6 of the bottom 7 before tonight’s games were the last 6 teams to get promoted and Everton who got docked points. If that doesn’t tell you how difficult it is then nothing will get through to you.


Also Fulham didnt just come up and stay up, they came up and got relegated, kept together most of the squad, bounced back and stayed up at the 2nd attempt. Something I think we can emulate.

[Casper2]

6 of the bottom 7 before tonight’s games were the last 6 teams to get promoted and Everton who got docked points. If that doesn’t tell you how difficult it is then nothing will get through to you.


Also Fulham didnt just come up and stay up, they came up and got relegated, kept together most of the squad, bounced back and stayed up at the 2nd attempt. Something I think we can emulate.

They finished 10th last season

[KRBFC]

They finished 10th last season

Right…. At the second attempt, they were relegated 2 years prior and bounced back as champions the following year

[KRBFC]

Infact it was Fulham’s 3rd attempt…

17/18: championship promotion
18/19: premier league relegation
19/20: championship promotion
20/21: premier league relegation
21/22: championship promotion
22/23: finally survived in the premier league

[Casper2]

Right…. At the second attempt, they were relegated 2 years prior and bounced back as champions the following year

With 11pts fewer than us

[KRBFC]

With 11pts fewer than us

What’s your point though? They took 3 consecutive attempts at survival and finally got it. We’re on attempt number 1. We took 2 last time.

[Vegas Claret]

6 of the bottom 7 before tonight’s games were the last 6 teams to get promoted and Everton who got docked points. If that doesn’t tell you how difficult it is then nothing will get through to you.


Also Fulham didnt just come up and stay up, they came up and got relegated, kept together most of the squad, bounced back and stayed up at the 2nd attempt. Something I think we can emulate.

and with a far far far more experienced team and manager

[Casper2]

What’s your point though? They took 3 consecutive attempts at survival and finally got it. We’re on attempt number 1. We took 2 last time.

My point is Fulham finished 10th after being promoted, which according to you and others is impossible, regardless of your meaningless stats of previous seasons .
Brentford doing fine with only 1 promotion and were promoted through the playoffs.

[Casper2]

and with a far far far more experienced team and manager

So you saying we need a more experienced manager?

[Vegas Claret]

So you saying we need a more experienced manager?

absolutely not, I'm just showing you lot who lose their **** at everything there are reasons for it. I'm happy with what the club are trying to achieve and acknowledge it was never likely to be an overnight achievement.

[DingleDangle]

Yes because what this board needs is no football discussion but the kind of sarcastic, no opinion, pointless gibbering that you come out with.

How about having an opinion on somthing other than what your fellow supporters think?

He's already expressed his opinion. Just because you've got your knickers in a twist, that it goes against what you think and that he's disagreeing with you, doesn't mean you can throw your weight around telling people what they must or mustn't say!

[bumba]

somewhere on another thread I listed the spends of the teams, the 100 million that we spent is absolutely **** all in comparison when you also take into consideration those teams started with better players before they spent. You crack on losing your **** though

Burnley had the 6th highest net spend this summer, that's not taking in to account last January and last summer or players we bought whilst previously in the premier league that's still in the squad.

[bumba]

absolutely not, I'm just showing you lot who lose their **** at everything there are reasons for it. I'm happy with what the club are trying to achieve and acknowledge it was never likely to be an overnight achievement.

Brighton beat United with a starting 11 worth £17 million, we spent more this summer than Brentford did over the last two seasons.
Bet there squad didn't even cost much more than ours.
Excuses excuses