Who for Jay?

[willsclarets]

Great servant, but at the moment he's not really giving us a great deal. Amdouni is doing the best work dropping deep, and I can't remember too many times where Jay has held the ball up well for us. And he's not exactly firing in front of goal.

Not calling him useless etc, but he's not at his sharpest imo. Obviously Foster would slip in, but in lieu of him and Obefami (injured again) we don't have another option.

If you were to replace him in the 11, who would you go for? Short period but I like the look of Tresor today. Redmond did well too. Maybe one of those two off Amdouni who could hang on the last man a little more?

[bfcjg]

Jay needs a rest, I'd opt for Redmond

[ksrclaret]

I think you need to play Rodriguez for two reasons. Firstly, in the absence of Foster, he's the only player we have capable to providing a focal point for the team. Secondly, he provides excellent help when it comes to defending set pieces and this is often overlooked.

I'd be lining up with Rodriguez and Redmond playing off him against Everton. Amdouni is a luxury who's neither one thing or another.

[IanMcL]

I think you need to play Rodriguez for two reasons. Firstly, in the absence of Foster, he's the only player we have capable to providing a focal point for the team. Secondly, he provides excellent help when it comes to defending set pieces and this is often overlooked.

I'd be lining up with Rodriguez and Redmond playing off him against Everton. Amdouni is a luxury who's neither one thing or another.

This.

A few minutes of Redmond demonstrated that it is not his position!

Ashley Barnes was the big mistake!

[Swizzlestick]

This.

A few minutes of Redmond demonstrated that it is not his position!

Ashley Barnes was the big mistake!

Not convinced about that. Barnes not exactly pulling up any trees a level below at the moment. Great servant for us, but time to move on. You can’t foresee things like Foster’s illness and it appears Obafemi is a walking injury at the moment.

[Pearcey]

Hopefully Obafemi is closer to getting more minutes.

[Kilson810]

Love Jay but he is third pick. Unfortunately, foster and Obafemi are out so it is up to him to try and lead the line as I don't think anyone else can do it.

[Westleigh]

Chickens coming home to roost recruitment in the summer was all about who can we make money on not we need this and we need that.

[Bigvince]

Jay is 34 years old, 3 games in a week is a big ask for him.

[Burnley1989]

Jay plays every week for me, top professional, VK knows that..,

[Darnhill Claret]

Recruitment in the summer was all about who can we make money on, according to the 'experts' on here, no-one else. Not to be confused with the club's long term strategy.

VK's substitutions last season were seen as excellent. Why? Because we won games. Now they are useless. Why? because we aren't winning games.

Most of the critics can't see the long game for some reason, thankfully a few can.

[Quickenthetempo]

He was a passenger today.

He always seemed to be hanging about, 5 yards away from Amdouni. A mobile centre forward would have covered far more ground than both.

Injuries are showing in the squad now, but at least they battled it out today.

[Goliath]

Nobody, he plays every week until foster is back. No coincidence that weve improved since he came back in.
An experienced footballer that does the hard yards, takes up good positions defensively, wins headers upfront and defensively and communicates with thr younger ones to help lead the pressing structure

[Hedontplayforyou]

Jay is trying his very best and should have scored in the last two games which may well have given us 2-5 more points but the big thing we miss with Foster being out is the running power in behind . Today we soaked up pressure well at times and then had numerous chances to counter but with very little pace to do it. Can’t criticise Jay too much as he was probably past his best a few years ago but he’s one of us and is giving it all he has, he still has that class about him at times, just the pace is a little too much these days.

[Jamesy]

He is our only option up top at present. Unless we can beg the universally unpopular Weghorst to return from his loan spell in Germany.

[Darnhill Claret]

VK wants the players to eventually play with a false nine or a line leader (Jay) with quick, skilful players around him. Foster, our first choice line leader can play either role but is unavailable at the moment. Until he returns Jay has to play the role, either role as best he can. When we have another player who can play either role, then Jay will have competition. Until then he seemingly has a free pass.

[KRBFC]

I think he’s miles off the pace, he’s not even winning headers and holding the ball up anymore. Noticeably he’s a yard or two out of position every time. He’s missed two absolute sitters in the last two games which have probably cost us points. He’s working hard though.

I’d try Amdouni upfront with Redmond central buzzing around in behind him, when Amdouni drops deep we need someone running off him centrally.

[Goliath]

Calling either todays or the wolves one an absolute sitter is pushing it. He reacted today quickly to the ball dropping and hit it on instinct. A bit of lift would have done it but he hit the target probably not noticing the keepers trailing leg in the split second he had to get his shot away.

[Goliath]

I think he’s miles off the pace, he’s not even winning headers and holding the ball up anymore. Noticeably he’s a yard or two out of position every time. He’s missed two absolute sitters in the last two games which have probably cost us points. He’s working hard though.

I’d try Amdouni upfront with Redmond central buzzing around in behind him, when Amdouni drops deep we need someone running off him centrally.

This is just the kind of emotional nonsense fans come out with without thinking abour practicalities. Who are we going to hit when we have to go long? This was a huge problem earlier in the season.
Whos going to do jays job from set pieces, bare in mind Taylor is also missing and we are playing a Sean Dyche side next up?

Also Jay is the one getting our big chances, some will go in some wont but at least hes getting chances. Amdouni hardly seems to get any chances to miss. He reminds me of Ings the season before it all clicked for himm we could all see he had something but it just wasnt coming together

[Wile E Coyote]

Jay is being given a bit too much stick here in my opinion.
Players in his position can only ever thrive with much more threatening players to support their role. At present we are clearly a poor side by comparison to the other teams, hence our lowly status.
Yes there are misses, but goal scorers often get far more opportunities to put things right if they are in a top flight set up. If he was playing same position for city or arsenal the goals would be there.
I always felt same at other end with the Beast in goal. Got criticised, but had very little in front of him to prevent an onslaught on his goal from minute one.

[Lew200100]

Any one who can out pace a centre back would be nice. If Roberts had any pace he would have scored today as well. Both look like they are running backwards. Replace both full backs and a striker to compliment Foster would be nice this Xmas

[willsclarets]

I think you need to play Rodriguez for two reasons. Firstly, in the absence of Foster, he's the only player we have capable to providing a focal point for the team. Secondly, he provides excellent help when it comes to defending set pieces and this is often overlooked.

I'd be lining up with Rodriguez and Redmond playing off him against Everton. Amdouni is a luxury who's neither one thing or another.

The defensive set pieces is a fair point, but the idea he's a focal point of the attack, that we hit Jay long or he holds up play I think is my point really. For me he's not doing that, amdouni is doing that more than Jay in Central areas of the pitch.

It's not as if I'd be gutted to see Jay in the lineup against Everton, I'm a fan of Jay. But I do think he's lacking a bit of sharpness/form, and wondered if a Redmond hitting channels for instance would be more effective, given we are losing an aerial battle with or without Jay in attack. I noticed yesterday Redmond made a few clever runs, one in particular where unfortunately he didn't get found.

[burnleymik]

Not really understanding the criticism of the recruitment in the striker area. We play with one main striker. For that role we have Foster and two back ups in Obafemi and Jay. It's very unfortunately to have two out of three strikers injured/unavailable. Jay is doing his best, but it's tough at this level and he wasn;t meant to be our main man week in and week out.

One thing for sure is that Amdouni doesn't do well as the main striker and I don't think Redmond showed much in that position yesterday, allbeit a cameo.

As it stands, Jay is our only real option and you know he will always give 100% effort. Hopefully a loan type replacement linedd up for January if there is no hope of Lyle making it back.

[NewClaret]

This.

A few minutes of Redmond demonstrated that it is not his position!

Ashley Barnes was the big mistake!

I actually think not signing Dovbyk at £7m was the big mistake. Would’ve been great cover relatively cheaply.

I love the bones of Ash but no way he’s at this level now, which I think he’d admit himself. Would've been great in the dressing room though.

[willsclarets]

I'm not criticising the recruitment in this area fwiw, or saying Jay doesn't give 100%. I'm just saying we look a bit toothless in attack, and wondering if there's an alternative with the attacking players we have available. That's all.

[NewClaret]

Not really understanding the criticism of the recruitment in the striker area. We play with one main striker. For that role we have Foster and two back ups in Obafemi and Jay. It's very unfortunately to have two out of three strikers injured/unavailable. Jay is doing his best, but it's tough at this level and he wasn;t meant to be our main man week in and week out.

One thing for sure is that Amdouni doesn't do well as the main striker and I don't think Redmond showed much in that position yesterday, allbeit a cameo.

As it stands, Jay is our only real option and you know he will always give 100% effort. Hopefully a loan type replacement linedd up for January if there is no hope of Lyle making it back.

Completely agree with all of this.

[Luppy]

Against Everton, jay has to play because of his defensive abilities if nothing else. They’re a team of giants - we need all the help we can get

[claretspice]

Noone for Jay until Foster is available to start. I didn't see the game yesterday but in the previous two games Jay has been the more effective of the front two. I thought that was also the case against Palace. It seems to me he's being wrongly maligned.

I think if there's a problem in our team up front, it is Amdouni. He's too static. He's not stretching teams down the channels and he's not offering a real link option either- it was Jay who dropped deep yesterday and found the space to assist Odobert's goal.

Not sure the chance he missed yesterday was a sitter, either. He was pretty unlucky with it.

[claretspice]

Noone for Jay until Foster is available to start. I didn't see the game yesterday but in the previous two games Jay has been the more effective of the front two. I thought that was also the case against Palace. It seems to me he's being wrongly maligned.

I think if there's a problem in our team up front, it is Amdouni. He's too static. He's not stretching teams down the channels and he's not offering a real link option either- it was Jay who dropped deep yesterday and found the space to assist Odobert's goal.

Not sure the chance he missed yesterday was a sitter, either. He was pretty unlucky with it.

[warksclaret]

Sadly both Jay and JBG are past it in terms of competing in the PL. How many games has JBG started to be literally the first to be subbed. He has a great left foot but he is pedestrian and is not a good finisher. For his position we have Larson, Redmond and Tresor, and thats before Benson is fit again. All should be starting ahead of him.In terms of Jay we are snookered which is a very sad situation for the PL, and have little option but to play him. And against Everton we need his defensive aerial ability. We are missing Foster more and more each week, and have not found an alternative

[RVclaret]

Noone for Jay until Foster is available to start. I didn't see the game yesterday but in the previous two games Jay has been the more effective of the front two. I thought that was also the case against Palace. It seems to me he's being wrongly maligned.

I think if there's a problem in our team up front, it is Amdouni. He's too static. He's not stretching teams down the channels and he's not offering a real link option either- it was Jay who dropped deep yesterday and found the space to assist Odobert's goal.

Not sure the chance he missed yesterday was a sitter, either. He was pretty unlucky with it.

Amdouni was man of the match against Sheffield and extremely effective first half yesterday. Can’t agree he’s not providing a link option at all. It’s a fair point that it’s not his (or Jay’s) game to stretch the backline and that’s an issue we have without Foster unfortunately. I do hope we get to see an Amdouni - Foster front 2 at some point, has all the makings for a very dangerous duo.

[TopCat]

He was a passenger today.

He always seemed to be hanging about, 5 yards away from Amdouni. A mobile centre forward would have covered far more ground than both.

Injuries are showing in the squad now, but at least they battled it out today.

He’s been a passenger for weeks.
I can’t believe he plays the full 90 minutes.
At least change it in some form.

[claretspice]

Amdouni was man of the match against Sheffield and extremely effective first half yesterday. Can’t agree he’s not providing a link option at all. It’s a fair point that it’s not his (or Jay’s) game to stretch the backline and that’s an issue we have without Foster unfortunately.

I didn't think Amdouni was man of the match against Sheffield United or close to it, and in particular in that period front the start of the second half until we got the third goal (which of course he scored, with some excellent play) I thought he was guilty of waiting for the play to come to him rather than getting involved and being part of the platform to enable us to get into threatening positions.

I can use the goal yesterday to show this. When the ball comes in to Berge, Amdouni does make a run for a pass in behind. But when he doesn't get the ball, he basically stops and just tracks alongside the defender. He doesn't make another burst in the 15 seconds or so before Odobert scores. He's easy to mark. Compare that with Cunha for Wolves who is a similar sort of player - in the short build up sequence MOTD showed against Forest he made 4 runs, one after the other, never stopping and mostly sprinting - the last of which got him his goal.

He's a good player with some wonderful attributes. But he's not working hard enough off the ball right now and that is not a criticism that can levelled at Jay.

[bumba]

Obafemi looked sharp against Sheff Utd but must have picked up another injury to not be in a squad since but I think a fully fit Obafemi in front of Amdouni would cause mayhem, Obafemi will drag defenders away with his pace and runs to give Amdouni more room, if they close Amdouni down it's a simple pass threw on goal for Obafemi.
Jay doesn't give us that option he doesn't compliment Amdouni at all.

[RVclaret]

I didn't think Amdouni was man of the match against Sheffield United or close to it, and in particular in that period front the start of the second half until we got the third goal (which of course he scored, with some excellent play) I thought he was guilty of waiting for the play to come to him rather than getting involved and being part of the platform to enable us to get into threatening positions.

I can use the goal yesterday to show this. When the ball comes in go Berge, Amdouni does make a run for a pass in behind. But when he doesn't get the ball, he basically stops and just tracks alongside the defender. He doesn't make another burst in the 15 seconds or so before Odobert scores. He's easy to mark. Compare that with Cunha for Wolves who is a similar sort of player - in the shirt build up sequence MOTD showed against Forest he made 4 runs, one after the other, never stopping and mostly sprinting - the last of which got him his goal.

He's a good player with some wonderful attributes. But he's not working hard enough off the ball right now and that is not a criticism that can levelled at Jay.

If you look at the player ratings and man of the match votes on here then your view on him not being MOM vs Sheffield is an outlier (fair enough, your view). He had a major role in creating the first, scored the third and assisted the fourth. That’s 3 goal contributions in a single PL game.

I also don’t agree he’s not working hard enough off the ball and see this as quite unfair. His pressing has come on leaps and bounds imo (probably also related to settling into the intensity at this level and country). Clearly still tires in the 2nd half.

[claretspice]

Obafemi looked sharp against Sheff Utd but must have picked up another injury to not be in a squad since but I think a fully fit Obafemi in front of Amdouni would cause mayhem, Obafemi will drag defenders away with his pace and runs to give Amdouni more room, if they close Amdouni down it's a simple pass threw on goal for Obafemi.
Jay doesn't give us that option he doesn't compliment Amdouni at all.

But Rodriguez does give us an intelligent physical outlet, works back into midfield well and makes a big difference defensively at set plays, and has shown the wherewithal to get into good goalscoring positions in the box in each of the last 3 games. Very little of that has been true if Amdouni.

[claretspice]

If you look at the player ratings and man of the match votes on here then your view on him not being MOM vs Sheffield is an outlier (fair enough, your view). He had a major role in creating the first, scored the third and assisted the fourth. That’s 3 goal contributions in a single PL game.

I also don’t agree he’s not working hard enough off the ball and see this as quite unfair. His pressing has come on leaps and bounds imo (probably also related to settling into the intensity at this level and country). Clearly still tires in the 2nd half.

I give him great credit for the first and third goals v Sheff U. The fourth needs placing in context - by that point they were so passive Amdouni played a 1-2 off a static defender before having all the time in the world to play in Koleosho. I accept it may be a minority view of that game but I stand by it for all the reasons stated.

As for work rate - I've just shown you the evidence in the build up to our goal yesterday and compared it to what Amdouni has to aspire towards - when you are not a target man physically (as Jay is) you have to be on the move making multiple runs in each build up. That is work rate and so is getting back into midfield to muck in when we are short manned (something Jay does miles more than Amdouni). Work rate takes lots of forms. His pressing may have improved but in other facets he is still short.

[Casper2]

He’ll be fine against Everton , but 3 games within a week is too much for him .

[RVclaret]

I give him great credit for the first and third goals v Sheff U. The fourth needs placing in context - by that point they were so passive Amdouni played a 1-2 off a static defender before having all the time in the world to play in Koleosho. I accept it may be a minority view of that game but I stand by it for all the reasons stated.

As for work rate - I've just shown you the evidence in the build up to our goal yesterday and compared it to what Amdouni has to aspire towards - when you are not a target man physically (as Jay is) you have to be on the move making multiple runs in each build up. That is work rate and so is getting back into midfield to muck in when we are short manned (something Jay does miles more than Amdouni). Work rate takes lots of forms. His pressing may have improved but in other facets he is still short.

You’ve admitted to not watching the game yesterday. I was at the Amex. The build up to the goal involved Jay, he did that part well, he did little else all game and lost every single physical battle with Dunk and Van Hecke. Then missed another big chance early in the second half. Amdouni was involved quite a bit more and looked threatening all first half. One highlight shouldn’t decide what a players performance was like surely. For reference, I still want Jay starting as the focal point and perhaps yesterday was just tiredness after a 3 match game week.

[claretspice]

You’ve admitted to not watching the game yesterday. I was at the Amex. The build up to the goal involved Jay, he did that part well, he did little else all game and lost every single physical battle with Dunk and Van Hecke. Amdouni was involved quite a bit more and looked threatening all first half. One highlight shouldn’t decide what a players performance was like surely.

I didn't say it did. But what i did say is that the example from our goal was completely consistent with everything I've seen from Amdouni in the last month and is therefore a good example of why I felt he was more ineffective than Jay in the last few games that I have seen. It is also why Amdouni tends to be prominent only whilst the team as a whole are on top and creating threatening positions.

[RVclaret]

I didn't say it did. But what i did say is that the example from our goal was completely consistent with everything I've seen from Amdouni in the last month and is therefore a good example of why I felt he was more ineffective than Jay in the last few games that I have seen. It is also why Amdouni tends to be prominent only whilst the team as a whole are on top and creating threatening positions.

If we are thinking of single examples then how about when Trafford played a direct ball over the top against Sheffield United which Amdouni latched onto, brought down exquisitely and created a chance for Jay. Doesn’t seem to go with the ‘waited for the game to come to him’ thing.

Jay is doing an ok job and working very hard so I’m personally not faulting him in that regard. However, his miss did cost us the other night and I do believe we’d be another 5-6 points better off with Foster alongside Amdouni in every game though.

[ArmchairDetective]

I think you need to play Rodriguez for two reasons. Firstly, in the absence of Foster, he's the only player we have capable to providing a focal point for the team. Secondly, he provides excellent help when it comes to defending set pieces and this is often overlooked.

I'd be lining up with Rodriguez and Redmond playing off him against Everton. Amdouni is a luxury who's neither one thing or another.

Have to agree. Redmond has looked sharp whenever he has played. Swapping Jay for Foster on his return.

[claretspice]

If we are thinking of single examples then how about when Trafford played a direct ball over the top against Sheffield United which Amdouni latched onto, brought down exquisitely and created a chance for Jay. Doesn’t seem to go with the ‘waited for the game to come to him’ thing.

Jay is doing an ok job and working very hard so I’m personally not faulting him in that regard. However, his miss did cost us the other night and I do believe we’d be another 5-6 points better off with Foster alongside Amdouni in every game though.

My point in the example I gave was that having made a first run, he doesn't follow that up with subsequent runs in the same phase. So the example of him getting the ball in first phase isn't exactly a contradiction. He makes runs, some good ones. He just doesn't make enough.

[NewClaret]

If we are thinking of single examples then how about when Trafford played a direct ball over the top against Sheffield United which Amdouni latched onto, brought down exquisitely and created a chance for Jay. Doesn’t seem to go with the ‘waited for the game to come to him’ thing.

Jay is doing an ok job and working very hard so I’m personally not faulting him in that regard. However, his miss did cost us the other night and I do believe we’d be another 5-6 points better off with Foster alongside Amdouni in every game though.

Agree with your comment about points had foster been playing. We’ve been super unlucky with both VAR and injuries this year.

I like Amdouni. There’s a real player in there for sure. One criticism would be his general strength on receiving the ball with his back to goal though. That frustrates me a bit. He goes down really easily. He needs to watch Salah - small but super strong and barely spends any time on the floor. Thats the difference between a decent and excellent player at this level, so hope that’s something they’re working on with him.

[MACCA]

Replace him?

He really should have 4 in 4, and I know its all ifs and buts, but he's getting in the right areas.

He's realistically only had 4 chances in those 4 games, do it's more a thing to create more for him for me.

Let's be honest we can't expect him to dispatch all 4 of the only 4 chances he's had in the last 4 games, it's Haaland esc stats/finishing, although I must say the last 2 misses are certainly better/easier chances than the header

Still a big role to play imo

[NewClaret]

Replace him?

He really should have 4 in 4, and I know its all ifs and buts, but he's getting in the right areas.

He's realistically only had 4 chances in those 4 games, do it's more a thing to create more for him for me.

Let's be honest we can't expect him to dispatch all 4 of the only 4 chances he's had in the last 4 games, it's Haaland esc stats/finishing, although I must say the last 2 misses are certainly better/easier chances than the header

Still a big role to play imo

Agree on your point about his chances MACCA. We’re not creating a lot of clear cut chances. The two he’s had in recent games were half chances really.

Vs Wolves he might have dinked it or held the ball up & waited for the keeper to commit but imagine he did either and wasted the chance. We’d all be saying hit it low & hard.

Vs Brighton the only option he had was to log it a bit but great save by Verbruggen and the ball came to his feet so quickly he had micro second to decide. Not easy. I’d say the JBG shot and Vitinho ‘cross’ were much poorer efforts in the final third yesterday and why we didn’t come away with more.

We’re micro analysing these chances because they’re so few and far between at the moment. If we create more and better chances Jay will bag.

[spt_claret]

I really hoped after his early goal and decent holdup Vs Sheffield he was going to turn a corner like Barnes last year but he's a year older and at a higher level and apart from Wolves, and some okay link play against West Ham, his only contribution in his appearances has been to miss.

He loves the club, he works hard, but that isn't enough, rather obviously given the results and output.

Brun Larsen had one bad game against Wolves, if we abandoned everyone over one bad game we'd have nobody in the side. He's 6 foot, he's played as a striker or second striker in the past, he's far quicker than Jay, he's two footed, good range of passing,can beat a man, quick thinker, knows where the net is as proven vs Sheffield and Luton. To me he's the most obvious emergency striker option if there's no Foster or Obafemi he has very similar attributes, play him as the right sided striker with Amdouni offset on the left like he does for Jay. Redmond is much closer to an Amdouni backup

[Elizabeth]

Definitely past his best but it's all about him making effecting contributions in key games. Jay is one who knows what it means to the fans

[boatshed bill]

I really hoped after his early goal and decent holdup Vs Sheffield he was going to turn a corner like Barnes last year but he's a year older and at a higher level and apart from Wolves, and some okay link play against West Ham, his only contribution in his appearances has been to miss.

He loves the club, he works hard, but that isn't enough, rather obviously given the results and output.

Brun Larsen had one bad game against Wolves, if we abandoned everyone over one bad game we'd have nobody in the side. He's 6 foot, he's played as a striker or second striker in the past, he's far quicker than Jay, he's two footed, good range of passing,can beat a man, quick thinker, knows where the net is as proven vs Sheffield and Luton. To me he's the most obvious emergency striker option if there's no Foster or Obafemi he has very similar attributes, play him as the right sided striker with Amdouni offset on the left like he does for Jay. Redmond is much closer to an Amdouni backup

Are you Brun's agent?

[spt_claret]

Are you Brun's agent?

Are you capable of ever contributing beyond sniping at people for different opinions?
I rate him and have put an argument forward for playing him. Contribute something useful or don't post.