The Mood has changed

[Westleigh]

Three or four weeks ago there were loads of full on arguments after every defeat and whose fault it was and what to do,I think yesterday 75% of the posts were all in agreement that things are going down the pan at an appalling rate,not many sticking up for the manager anymore ,if he had tried to keep most of the team together from last season and we were getting beaten most weeks at least there was hope if we went down that the squad would bounce straight back ,I think fans who expect us to walk the championship again are going to be in for a nasty shock this team will have been scrutinised by every championship manager and all they need to do is play similar to Everton and there will be lots more defeats next season.

[Ric_C]

"I think fans who expect us to walk the championship again are going to be in for a nasty shock"

why?

[Jamesy]

They have just wiped the sh!t out of their eyes that’s all and now they can see what we have been seeing all along.

[Goliath]

Three or four weeks ago there were loads of full on arguments after every defeat and whose fault it was and what to do,I think yesterday 75% of the posts were all in agreement that things are going down the pan at an appalling rate,not many sticking up for the manager anymore ,if he had tried to keep most of the team together from last season and we were getting beaten most weeks at least there was hope if we went down that the squad would bounce straight back ,I think fans who expect us to walk the championship again are going to be in for a nasty shock this team will have been scrutinised by every championship manager and all they need to do is play similar to Everton and there will be lots more defeats next season.

No championship team can do what Everton did yesterday to anywhere near that level.

[fidelcastro]

The teams in the championship won't be as good as Everton, but I get your broader point.

I personally think we should change the manager before we need to worry about next season, but I still seem to be in the minority on that one.

[beddie]

I’ll own up that I went to the game yesterday knowing or should I say thinking we’ll get beaten. I hoped of course I’d be wrong but yet again there was absolutely nothing in our play that got me excited. Fulham will walk us off the park and I’m dreading Boxing Day.

[Claretforever]

I don’t expect us to walk the Championship, and it’ll be interested which players have to be sold, but the squad as it is now should definitely be top 6, and likely top 3.

We’ve got some exciting young players that need a bit of time and experience. They’re not ready for the Premier League yet.

[CoolClaret]

I don’t expect us to walk the Championship, and it’ll be interested which players have to be sold, but the squad as it is now should definitely be top 6, and likely top 3.

We’ve got some exciting young players that need a bit of time and experience. They’re not ready for the Premier League yet.

So why buy them?

[fidelcastro]

"I think fans who expect us to walk the championship again are going to be in for a nasty shock"

why?

Because after more inevitable squad upheaval, it's arrogant in the extreme to just presume we'll "walk the Championship"

[Claretforever]

So why buy them?

Exactly! I understand the model and that the plan is to develop and sell for a large profit, but being relegated doesn’t help with the sale price.

[Ilkley claret]

I agree the mood has changed. For the first time yesterday I sensed definite negativity creeping in to the crowd, however I think this was partly to do with Dyche being the opposition manager.

[fidelcastro]

For me, when Kompany said earlier in the season, words to the effect of "We may have to have one bad season to have ten good ones" he was already writing this season off as us being relegation fodder.

I'm amazed more people didn't pick up on that.

[ClaretPete001]

Because after more inevitable squad upheaval, it's arrogant in the extreme to just presume we'll "walk the Championship"

And on that Fidel we agree....

[Stayingup]

We will still have to clear corners and free kicks into our box in the Championship. And we will have to score. This team needs some proper men in it. Last seasons team was balanced better even to Barnes protecting the youngsters. We need this badly now.

[StayingDown4Ever]

I agree the mood has changed. For the first time yesterday I sensed definite negativity creeping in to the crowd, however I think this was partly to do with Dyche being the opposition manager.

But mainly to do with the fact we are pony.

[StayingDown4Ever]

For me, when Kompany said earlier in the season, words to the effect of "We may have to have one bad season to have ten good ones" he was already writing this season off as us being relegation fodder.

I'm amazed more people didn't pick up on that.

Probably cause he realised when watching them in training he’d spent all our money in the summer on a load of crap that wasn’t going to get any better.

[fidelcastro]

Probably cause he realised when watching them in training he’d spent all our money in the summer on a load of crap that wasn’t going to get any better.

Not quite, I think he purposely bought potential, with the guarantee from the owners that should the worst happen, he wouldn't be sacked.

That would be fine if we were at least competitive, but we just aren't. It's like the players know they're beaten before the game starts.

[CryerBFC]

"I think fans who expect us to walk the championship again are going to be in for a nasty shock"

why?

I agree with him, all the heads will be down come next August, some will think they’re bigger than the Championship and want a bigger move, not to mention they may lose trust in the manager.

We miss a solid spine, with the wingers and strikers doing their bit when the ball comes. We peaked last season with the Muric x THB x Beyer combo, Maatsen bombing up and down the left, Cork doing all the scrappy stuff, Brownhill ratting around and picking up loose balls, Barnsey dropping in and helping out. We’ve got none of that at the minute and I don’t see their being much change post January window.

[Clovius Boofus]

Walking away with the Championship is pure arrogance, no matter which club is relegated.

As for mood change - I think a change of manager would be a massive mistake. Surely I'm not the only one who saw this season as a free hit? This season I expected us to still be in the Championship, though near certs for automatic promotion.

We are blooding a young squad with largely no experience at this level. VK is also new at this level re managing. I don't enjoy losing, or seeing inexperience-driven mistakes, but we can live, learn and grow from this, or we can throw it all in the bin.

If we sack VK, and I fear this is a distinct possibility given how Dyche was potted by this board, then I'll really start worrying, not only about what's coming next, but also for our long term prospects.

[JohnDearyMe]

Walking away with the Championship is pure arrogance, no matter which club is relegated.

As for mood change - I think a change of manager would be a massive mistake. Surely I'm not the only one who saw this season as a free hit? This season I expected us to still be in the Championship, though near certs for automatic promotion.

We are blooding a young squad with largely no experience at this level. VK is also new at this level re managing. I don't enjoy losing, or seeing inexperience-driven mistakes, but we can live, learn and grow from this, or we can throw it all in the bin.

If we sack VK, and I fear this is a distinct possibility given how Dyche was potted by this board, then I'll really start worrying, not only about what's coming next, but also for our long term prospects.

Despite romping the Championship i wasn't getting carried away with any predictions of qualifying for Europe. I thought we'd be in a relegation scrap but expected far better than what has been delivered so far. I think our season is effectively over already but i would like to see some more pragmatism from Kompany tactics and selection wise

[forzagranata]

Anyone who thinks this team will 'walk' the Championship - should have watched Norwich v Ipswich yesterday.

No team which is incapable of defending set pieces or floated crosses into the six yard box is 'walking' anything.

[Clovius Boofus]

I think our season is effectively over already but i would like to see some more pragmatism from Kompany tactics and selection wise

Oh, I agree. We have to learn from this.

[RVclaret]

Anyone who thinks this team will 'walk' the Championship - should have watched Norwich v Ipswich yesterday.

No team which is incapable of defending set pieces or floated crosses into the six yard box is 'walking' anything.

Defending set pieces and floated crosses into the 6 yard box were without doubt our biggest weakness and where we conceded most goals last season, yet we won the league at a canter?

[Iloveyoubrady]

We don’t know what the long term project is. If we did bring all these young players in view of them being premier league players in 2/3/4 years time, it’s working perfectly. We have some really good young players who will improve and some of whom are already looking good in this league. If this is the case and we will be ok financially to go down for a season or two, great, I can easily see some of the current players being worth a fortune in a couple of years.

If our plan was to spend £100 million to stay up, we are ******. The only player we are actually getting value from is Berge, and that’s because he’s the only one we didn’t pay a huge potential premium for. If the expenditure was purely to try and stay up, we got it all wrong and Kompany should get the sack.

However, I worry we might have tried to be too clever. I think we were maybe arrogant after the season in the championship and thought there was no chance of going down. Therefore they thought they were already safe and spending all that money on youngsters would be ok as we’d remain in the league for a few seasons and they would grow into valuable assets.

Right now, we’re losing money after our summer business, which we don’t seem to be able to afford.

[Shaggy]

Our board got the Dyche sacking correct, a few weeks earlier might have actually saved us. I also think that they have been very patient with Kompany and not many clubs hierarchy would put up with such abysmal work this season with all the resources made available.

[evensteadiereddie]

I think the mood on here has changed in that the posters who are angry and frustrated seem to be shouting more loudly and more often.

[NewClaret]

Three or four weeks ago there were loads of full on arguments after every defeat and whose fault it was and what to do,I think yesterday 75% of the posts were all in agreement that things are going down the pan at an appalling rate,not many sticking up for the manager anymore ,if he had tried to keep most of the team together from last season and we were getting beaten most weeks at least there was hope if we went down that the squad would bounce straight back ,I think fans who expect us to walk the championship again are going to be in for a nasty shock this team will have been scrutinised by every championship manager and all they need to do is play similar to Everton and there will be lots more defeats next season.

I basically disagree with this whole post, but specifically:

1. I don’t think things are going down the pan at an alarming rate. Despite it being our worst performance in a long while (maybe Bournemouth), we had 62% possession and 14 shots yesterday. The issue is we’re not taking our chances of which we had plenty. And obviously conceding easily, which we’ve been doing all season,

2. We still have the same team that took us up, bar the loans who were never our players, so when we go down we’ll have them with another year of training under Kompany. They will be better.

3. In any event, we’ve since signed much better players. We may lose a few of those but will be stronger next season than we were last season for sure.

4. If you can’t see that there’s a just huge difference in quality between all the prem teams and the championship teams there’s basically no point arguing about it. What Everton did yesterday no Championship team will be able to do. Worth noting Everton have Beaton Forest, Chelsea and Newcastle recently. Tell me a single Championship side who’d beat all three.

[StayingDown4Ever]

However, I worry we might have tried to be too clever. I think we were maybe arrogant after the season in the championship and thought there was no chance of going down. Therefore they thought they were already safe and spending all that money on youngsters would be ok as we’d remain in the league for a few seasons and they would grow into valuable assets.

Probably right. The real mistake was rushing them all into the first team replacing the ones who got us in the division.

[bumba]

We don’t know what the long term project is. If we did bring all these young players in view of them being premier league players in 2/3/4 years time, it’s working perfectly. We have some really good young players who will improve and some of whom are already looking good in this league. If this is the case and we will be ok financially to go down for a season or two, great, I can easily see some of the current players being worth a fortune in a couple of years.

If our plan was to spend £100 million to stay up, we are ******. The only player we are actually getting value from is Berge, and that’s because he’s the only one we didn’t pay a huge potential premium for. If the expenditure was purely to try and stay up, we got it all wrong and Kompany should get the sack.

However, I worry we might have tried to be too clever. I think we were maybe arrogant after the season in the championship and thought there was no chance of going down. Therefore they thought they were already safe and spending all that money on youngsters would be ok as we’d remain in the league for a few seasons and they would grow into valuable assets.

Right now, we’re losing money after our summer business, which we don’t seem to be able to afford.

Absolutely no way is relegation part of the plan, the new owners just want to make money for themselves and the investors, losing £100 million a season isn't part of the plan.
I'd say it's more the comment regarding arrogance, after last season they thought they'd struck gold with VK and expected survive comfortably whilst bedding in some young players with potential.
Some would be sold next summer and some the summer after. They've taken the league too lightly, thought VK was better than he is and that these players were further along than they realised.
Massive cock up.
Massive failure.
Who knows what the future holds upon relegation, anybody expecting another season like last year is in for a huge shock, coming back up next season will be twice as hard as last season

[Mark the Claret]

"I think fans who expect us to walk the championship again are going to be in for a nasty shock"

why?

I think the two teams that come down with us, probably Luton and Sheffield, are better equipped "to walk the championship"

[Nori1958]

I basically disagree with this whole post, but specifically:

1. I don’t think things are going down the pan at an alarming rate. Despite it being our worst performance in a long while (maybe Bournemouth), we had 62% possession and 14 shots yesterday. The issue is we’re not taking our chances of which we had plenty. And obviously conceding easily, which we’ve been doing all season,

2. We still have the same team that took us up, bar the loans who were never our players, so when we go down we’ll have them with another year of training under Kompany. They will be better.

3. In any event, we’ve since signed much better players. We may lose a few of those but will be stronger next season than we were last season for sure.

4. If you can’t see that there’s a just huge difference in quality between all the prem teams and the championship teams there’s basically no point arguing about it. What Everton did yesterday no Championship team will be able to do. Worth noting Everton have Beaton Forest, Chelsea and Newcastle recently. Tell me a single Championship side who’d beat all three.

At last a sensible post

[turbo5]

I just worry about losing a high percentage of the fan base. A heard a lot of people towards the end of the Dyche era saying they wouldn't be renewing their ST because they had got bored with the style of play and poor results. The sacking of Dyche, new owners and VK was enough for fans to give it another season. Last season was off the scale for excitement and enjoyment and we now have a waiting list for ticket sales . I worry for next season after this lack lustre season. What is the pull factor to encourage the 6K or more floating supporters.

[gandhisflipflop]

I just worry about losing a high percentage of the fan base. A heard a lot of people towards the end of the Dyche era saying they wouldn't be renewing their ST because they had got bored with the style of play and poor results. The sacking of Dyche, new owners and VK was enough for fans to give it another season. Last season was off the scale for excitement and enjoyment and we now have a waiting list for ticket sales . I worry for next season after this lack lustre season. What is the pull factor to encourage the 6K or more floating supporters.

If they are going to be whiny bitches like this season they can stay away for me

[KRBFC]

I don’t think any Burnley fan has been happy with this season, I think most sensible ones realise it was always going to be tough and we might get relegated. Turns out we’re finding it tough and will probably get relegated.

VK has earnt the right to see out this season and be given an attempt to take us back up. Given what he achieved last time I’m confident in VK to learn and the team to progress in the long term.

[northernpowerhouse]

"I think fans who expect us to walk the championship again are going to be in for a nasty shock"

why?

Because no PL team has ever gone down with sub-20 points, kept the same manager and been promoted, nevermind walked the league. You can't lose 75% of your games one season, change nothing and then suddenly start winning every week. It doesn't work like that.

The obvious precedent is Derby, who went down with 11 points, kept Paul Jewell, and then had to get rid when they were 18th in the Championship.

[gandhisflipflop]

Because no PL team has ever gone down with sub-20 points, kept the same manager and been promoted, nevermind walked the league. You can't lose 75% of your games one season, change nothing and then suddenly start winning every week. It doesn't work like that.

The obvious precedent is Derby, who went down with 11 points, kept Paul Jewell, and then had to get rid when they were 18th in the Championship.

We won’t go down with sub 20 points

[groove]

I think most of us are accepting that we just aren't good enough. But calls for a new manager are ridiculous. We won a trophy in emphatic fashion just 8 months ago. I don't want us to be another Watford. I'm sticking by VK.

[NewClaret]

I just worry about losing a high percentage of the fan base. A heard a lot of people towards the end of the Dyche era saying they wouldn't be renewing their ST because they had got bored with the style of play and poor results. The sacking of Dyche, new owners and VK was enough for fans to give it another season. Last season was off the scale for excitement and enjoyment and we now have a waiting list for ticket sales . I worry for next season after this lack lustre season. What is the pull factor to encourage the 6K or more floating supporters.

This is a valid concern. Sadly, as we’re already seeing, many fans will not turn up to see us lose every week. But they’ll be back in the Championship, I’m sure.

Personally I can take pleasure from watching a game even when we lose - seeing young players develop and others play well even when the team performance is poor can be enjoyable if disappointing for me - but not all can and I respect that.

If I could sit with Kompany and give him some advice to protect against that it’d be:

Get the basics right. Fans can handle defeats but not when things like our delivery in to the box on corners and FK’s is so poor. Throw ins also. Sort those out as a priority.

Don’t overcomplicate things. When we’re at the bottom or losing, be a bit more direct, even if it’s not part of the longer term philosophy.

Entertain. I don’t think he wanted to bring Benny on yesterday as we’d lose JBL’s height but at 2-0 down who cares. Get some excitement on to the pitch.

If lose but gave it a really good go I think he’ll keep more fans on side. He does need to think of this angle (keeping fans on side) now though.

Get better. We need to be improving week on week as we get in to the second half

[NewClaret]

I think most of us are accepting that we just aren't good enough. But calls for a new manager are ridiculous. We won a trophy in emphatic fashion just 8 months ago. I don't want us to be another Watford. I'm sticking by VK.

Spot on.

[RVclaret]

I basically disagree with this whole post, but specifically:

1. I don’t think things are going down the pan at an alarming rate. Despite it being our worst performance in a long while (maybe Bournemouth), we had 62% possession and 14 shots yesterday. The issue is we’re not taking our chances of which we had plenty. And obviously conceding easily, which we’ve been doing all season,

2. We still have the same team that took us up, bar the loans who were never our players, so when we go down we’ll have them with another year of training under Kompany. They will be better.

3. In any event, we’ve since signed much better players. We may lose a few of those but will be stronger next season than we were last season for sure.

4. If you can’t see that there’s a just huge difference in quality between all the prem teams and the championship teams there’s basically no point arguing about it. What Everton did yesterday no Championship team will be able to do. Worth noting Everton have Beaton Forest, Chelsea and Newcastle recently. Tell me a single Championship side who’d beat all three.

Absolutely spot on. Completely mind blowing that someone can watch football and think any Championship team can ‘do an Everton’. Bloody hell. They tried that last season and mostly failed miserably against a worse squad than this one.

[groove]

I just worry about losing a high percentage of the fan base. A heard a lot of people towards the end of the Dyche era saying they wouldn't be renewing their ST because they had got bored with the style of play and poor results. The sacking of Dyche, new owners and VK was enough for fans to give it another season. Last season was off the scale for excitement and enjoyment and we now have a waiting list for ticket sales . I worry for next season after this lack lustre season. What is the pull factor to encourage the 6K or more floating supporters.

Every club has floating supporters. Gates fluctuate with results. Maybe not at the tourist clubs, but we're not one of them thankfully. I also think the floating supporters are the biggest whingers. Glory hunters sulking when things don't go our way. They can stay away for all I care.

[Tricky Trevor]

We just seem undersized against every team we come up against.
In the Championship we didn’t. I’d never guarantee promotion, too much can go against you, but the players are there to have a good go at it.

[CoolClaret]

Every club has floating supporters. Gates fluctuate with results. Maybe not at the tourist clubs, but we're not one of them thankfully. I also think the floating supporters are the biggest whingers. Glory hunters sulking when things don't go our way. They can stay away for all I care.

Glory hunting is one thing…

Paying decent money to watch us get battered every week in the hopes that a few develop so the owners can sell them for a decent profit is another.

[taio]

Absolutely spot on. Completely mind blowing that someone can watch football and think any Championship team can ‘do an Everton’. Bloody hell. They tried that last season and mostly failed miserably against a worse squad than this one.

We might have a bigger squad, but it lacks balance and I'm not sure we've got a better team.

[Nonayforever]

Agree with all the above that NewClaret says.

That's exactly what VK was doing last season. This season it appears that he doesn't know what to do.

[bumba]

I basically disagree with this whole post, but specifically:

1. I don’t think things are going down the pan at an alarming rate. Despite it being our worst performance in a long while (maybe Bournemouth), we had 62% possession and 14 shots yesterday. The issue is we’re not taking our chances of which we had plenty. And obviously conceding easily, which we’ve been doing all season,

2. We still have the same team that took us up, bar the loans who were never our players, so when we go down we’ll have them with another year of training under Kompany. They will be better.

3. In any event, we’ve since signed much better players. We may lose a few of those but will be stronger next season than we were last season for sure.

4. If you can’t see that there’s a just huge difference in quality between all the prem teams and the championship teams there’s basically no point arguing about it. What Everton did yesterday no Championship team will be able to do. Worth noting Everton have Beaton Forest, Chelsea and Newcastle recently. Tell me a single Championship side who’d beat all three.

You say we aren't converting chances and had 14 shots yesterday, can you name me a decent chance we missed? Or a good save Pickford made?

You say we've signed better players but a squad isn't built on just buying better players you've gotta have everybody pulling in the same direction, everybody happy, VK upset last seasons squad straight away this year so all those will want out in January or the summer. Also the better players we've signed will be gone I'd anticipate at least 15 players leaving in the summer, that's another complete rebuild so how strong this season's squad is is completely irrelevant.

Everybody can see there's a huge difference in quality but if you can't see we are setting up completely wrong game after game then there's no point arguing with you about it either, if we go down and come back up playing the same do you think we'd suddenly survive that year?
There's more chance of staying down for a long time than there is of bouncing straight back, no sensible club takes that risk

[northernpowerhouse]

We won’t go down with sub 20 points

On current form we would. But even if we make it to 25 points when has any team ever done that badly, kept the manager and bounced straight back? It doesn't happen. You can't lose that many games without also losing the dressing room.

[Clovius Boofus]

I also think the floating supporters are the biggest whingers. Glory hunters sulking when things don't go our way.

The floaters in my local are always loud after a home defeat, but they aren't the worst. The worst ones are the former floaters who don't go on any more.

[groove]

Glory hunting is one thing…

Paying decent money to watch us get battered every week in the hopes that a few develop so the owners can sell them for a decent profit is another.

Fair point mate

[RVclaret]

We might have a bigger squad, but it lacks balance and I'm not sure we've got a better team.

Bigger and stronger squad. Lacks balance agree.

Team, well it depends, JBG wouldn’t be starting on the wide right in last seasons team and Taylor wouldn’t start left back, given the requirements for each league - but Berge is an upgrade on all our midfield, from what we’ve seen so far, Foster is an upgrade on Barnes/Rodriguez, Odobert/Koleosho are a level above Zaroury and Benson, while Amdouni is quite a bit clear of anyone else who played in the 10 kind of area. So it seems we may disagree on that point.

That’s before I go onto the squad, last seasons back up winger was Churlinov, someone who’s best season was 4 goals 2 assists in the Bundesliga 2, now it’s Tresor, a guy who just won the Belgian league player of the year with 35 goal contributions and capped as a Belgian international, and Redmond, 300+ games in the PL.