The Mood has changed

[Newcastleclaret93]

I don’t disagree with that. Dyche is a good manager, knows the Premier League (unlike our current manager) and has a much better set of players now than he had when he was here.

My point was if playing like they did yesterday is the only way we could win matches at this level then I’d rather not be in this league.

We don’t have to play like that. Plenty of teams mix it up.

Our biggest issue this season is we don’t mix it up. We have on style and every manager has figured it out.

Simply sit back and let us make mistakes.

[Vegas Claret]

We don’t have to play like that. Plenty of teams mix it up.

Our biggest issue this season is we don’t mix it up. We have on style and every manager has figured it out.

Simply sit back and let us make mistakes.

our biggest issue is lack of physicality for this league. We got in behind Everton loads of times yesterday but the final ball was always poor. It's not the style it's the quality when it matters.

We've decided to get in ahead of the other teams and try some of these young players and with that comes great inconsistency. If you look at Brighton they signed so many crap players before they got the better ones when Dan Ashworth was there, we are right at the beginning of our 'process' and it's clear mistakes have been made, but we aren't alone in doing that - we aren't doing anything that others haven't done before

[BurnleyFC]

Yep, massively. It’s not even close. By this I mean specifically if I had to watch the turgid (but excellently organised), 11 men behind the ball, low block they played for most of the second half. They were okay first half but didn’t look like creating much from open play even then. They were relying on set pieces which they executed brilliantly.

I found it one of the worst performances of the season, don’t get me wrong, there were things that are hugely frustrating to me (delivery in general but particularly dead balls, general lack of urgency & speed of passing). But I’d still rather see a team that retains possession and plays football than one who sit in and lets you have it after scoring. And despite the general slowness, we did manage to get 14 shots off so although I feel our build up is too slow it does create a decent number of chances.

Way I see it, you can decent by retaining the ball (passing it around keeper/CB’s) or by not having the ball and sitting in shape being hard to play through. In effect it’s the same thing but what I’m saying is I’d rather defend with the ball.

What

You’re doing Everton an injustice there.

They were well in control and the far better team. The reason they let us have so much of the ball is because they realised we’d do cock all with it.

[Newcastleclaret93]

our biggest issue is lack of physicality for this league. We got in behind Everton loads of times yesterday but the final ball was always poor. It's not the style it's the quality when it matters.

We've decided to get in ahead of the other teams and try some of these young players and with that comes great inconsistency. If you look at Brighton they signed so many crap players before they got the better ones when Dan Ashworth was there, we are right at the beginning of our 'process' and it's clear mistakes have been made, but we aren't alone in doing that - we aren't doing anything that others haven't done before

Not sure I agree, Brightons methodology was considerably different. They only started buying young in the last couple of seasons. Prior to that they have consistently bought players either at peak age or just about to be.

Two seasons ago they signed Mwepu and Cucerella for big money both 23/24 just about to hit there peak.

Season before that they signed Lallana, Wellbeck and Veltmen.

They bought young players around them like Caicedo and Mitoma but they weren’t thrown straight into the first team like we are having to.

In hindsight we should have gone down the Brighton route, prioristed league position with some more experienced pros then built up from there.

[Vegas Claret]

Not sure I agree, Brightons methodology was considerably different. They only started buying young in the last couple of seasons. Prior to that they have consistently bought players either at peak age or just about to be.

Two seasons ago they signed Mwepu and Cucerella for big money both 23/24 just about to hit there peak.

Season before that they signed Lallana, Wellbeck and Veltmen.

They bought young players around them like Caicedo and Mitoma but they weren’t thrown straight into the first team like we are having to.

In hindsight we should have gone down the Brighton route, prioristed league position with some more experienced pros then built up from there.

they signed LOADS of young players that failed and they got rid of - all whilst being 500 million in debt to their owner I might add

[Newcastleclaret93]

they signed LOADS of young players that failed and they got rid of - all whilst being 500 million in debt to their owner I might add

Yes but so does literally every prem club?

The main point being they all prioritise the starting team with experienced pros and sign younguns cheap so that if it does fail the team doesn’t suffer.

Our biggest issue is we haven’t spent the money wisely. Imagine this starting eleven this 3 or 4 experienced pros around 15m mark. It completely changes the team. Instead we spent it all on young kids, some of them barely even have a season game time let alone top level experience.

[NewClaret]

You’re doing Everton an injustice there.

They were well in control and the far better team. The reason they let us have so much of the ball is because they realised we’d do cock all with it.

I think there was a part of that, yes.

I agree had they not been 2 up they would’ve played more expansively. And they shut up shop having been gifted the win really.

But that’s not really my point. My point was that if that’s how we had to play to win at this level (rely on set pieces, park the bus) it’s just not entertaining for me to go and watch my team and see the opposition have two thirds of the ball. Effective but not great to watch.

Thats not to say we were always entertaining when we were in possession, mind.

[Vegas Claret]

Our biggest issue is we haven’t spent the money wisely. Imagine this starting eleven this 3 or 4 experienced pros around 15m mark. It completely changes the team. Instead we spent it all on young kids, some of them barely even have a season game time let alone top level experience.

exactly this mate, i've said the same loads of times. Too much too soon in the summer

[NewClaret]

Yes but so does literally every prem club?

The main point being they all prioritise the starting team with experienced pros and sign younguns cheap so that if it does fail the team doesn’t suffer.

Our biggest issue is we haven’t spent the money wisely. Imagine this starting eleven this 3 or 4 experienced pros around 15m mark. It completely changes the team. Instead we spent it all on young kids, some of them barely even have a season game time let alone top level experience.

I agree on the broader point that we needed to add more experience in summer (with hindsight- I wasn’t saying that at the time and I don’t remember anyone in the transfer thread saying it either).

But realistically what seasoned, experienced pros are we getting for £15m?

And there’s wages, of course.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I agree on the broader point that we needed to add more experience in summer (with hindsight- I wasn’t saying that at the time and I don’t remember anyone in the transfer thread saying it either).

But realistically what seasoned, experienced pros are we getting for £15m?

And there’s wages, of course.

These are some of the pros that were bought and sold this window in that range.

Xhaka - 12m
Loftus Cheek - 15m
Castagne - 11m (we should have defo gone for him)
Barkley - Free
Y hererra - 5m
Fred - 8m
Harry winks - 9m
Masuaku - 2m (good option at left back as back up)
Bellegarde - 10m
Coady - 6m
Pepe - free transfer
Sanson - went on loan but was rumoured to be available for 10m
Igor - 12m

[Jakubclaret]

Even somebody like rob holding would have been a better bet in defence than some signed.

[Vegas Claret]

These are some of the pros that were bought and sold this window in that range.

Xhaka - 12m
Loftus Cheek - 15m
Castagne - 11m (we should have defo gone for him)
Barkley - Free
Y hererra - 5m
Fred - 8m
Harry winks - 9m
Masuaku - 2m (good option at left back as back up)
Bellegarde - 10m
Coady - 6m
Pepe - free transfer
Sanson - went on loan but was rumoured to be available for 10m
Igor - 12m

you have to include wages...........that's the reason we didn't sign them

[Spijed]

My point was if playing like they did yesterday is the only way we could win matches at this level then I’d rather not be in this league.

That's such a snobby and disrespectful attitude. What do you say to Luton fans?

[superdimitri]

Some of our players aren't as young as you'd guess. Benson is 26 now and Cullen is 27. Berge and Bruun Larsen are 25. Tresor is 24 but if he's been kept out of the team by younger players then you can't really say the issue is age.

I'd say it's more lack of leadership on the pitch and a lack of commanding the area from Trafford.

[CoolClaret]

Because it’s pretty boring to watch you, Bumba, Westleigh, NewcastleClaret, CoolClaret, Stayindown4ever absolutely destroy this place by hoping we lose so you can all post. Even after a good result it’s negative topic and negative topic.

You lot were moaning after 2-3 games this season, you didn’t even give the manager and team a chance to learn/adapt before going for the neck.

now you’re stuck in a position where if the team is successful you look like idiots so you want us to fail.

Last season the team was successful so what did Newcastle and Stayindown4ever post? They slagged off individual players. Westleigh has 400 posts and not a single slight positive comment amongst them.

At least when I was moaning on here it was after Dyche had been here a long time and the football had become stale, some of you simply don’t want to give VK time to learn from mistakes made and for the team to develop. I think we will bounce back stronger, you don’t, you can argue toss about it and moan all the way through it but time is the only way to see. Time he has earned. Rough with the smooth n all that.

Hypocrite of the year award goes to^

How dare you say that I want us to lose, give over? Think I enjoy getting beat every week? I hate it.

This season has not been enjoyable one jot - it’s infuriating to me because I saw it coming an absolute mile off with beyond naive mistakes and ideas.

No comment when I’ve started a few threads labelled ‘positives’ of course, but sadly as the season has progressed there’s even less to take.

All I want is for the board (who I don’t believe have the best interests of the club at heart) and manager to be a bit more
accountable for this mess and for posters on here to stop coming out with regurgitated one liners to invalidate

Absolute radio silence from Pace all year who couldn’t even be arsed to give some praise for our old gaffer - who’s pretty much the sole reason why these lot even effing own us.

Results are poor, the team doesn’t encapsulate what I think a Burnley team should, the ‘match day experience’ is poor and we’re getting charged ever increasing money for the luxury of it.

Why not come out with some communication thanking fans for their continued support - heck, why not discount some travel for away games for the supporters. Absolute least they can do it’s a drop in the ocean for the club. Flags, drummer banners, catering, football the lot. Crap.

[bumba]

Because it’s pretty boring to watch you, Bumba, Westleigh, NewcastleClaret, CoolClaret, Stayindown4ever absolutely destroy this place by hoping we lose so you can all post. Even after a good result it’s negative topic and negative topic.

You lot were moaning after 2-3 games this season, you didn’t even give the manager and team a chance to learn/adapt before going for the neck.

now you’re stuck in a position where if the team is successful you look like idiots so you want us to fail.

Last season the team was successful so what did Newcastle and Stayindown4ever post? They slagged off individual players. Westleigh has 400 posts and not a single slight positive comment amongst them.

At least when I was moaning on here it was after Dyche had been here a long time and the football had become stale, some of you simply don’t want to give VK time to learn from mistakes made and for the team to develop. I think we will bounce back stronger, you don’t, you can argue toss about it and moan all the way through it but time is the only way to see. Time he has earned. Rough with the smooth n all that.

Hoping we lose? Come off it, I've supported us since Division 4 I want us to be successful but this right now is dull.
How you can say it after your comments during Dyche's time is unbelievable, what we are seeing now from VK is absolutely no different.
Dyche used to pump it long and if failing bring on another big man and go higher and longer, I've seen numerous comments from you over the years about it slating him for it, VK now is doing the exact same thing over and over that is failing without change. Just because it's a brand of football youve been campaigning for doesn't then mean everybody has to accept it.
Yes I was moaning early in the season because I knew from the first game VK had made a big mistake throwing last season's team to one side.
We are 17 games in and game by game it's getting worse, the effort wasn't even there on Saturday.
How much time has he earned?
We was the biggest spenders in the championship last season, now he's stepped up it's been awful.
Dyche had earnt time, VK has earnt a bit of leeway but come on it's wearing thin, we shouldn't be accepting relegation just to keep this 'style' of football cos it's boring and dull to watch and there's no guarantees of promotion again.
Then you to say we destroy this place after your previous posts Jesus Christ haha

[CoolClaret]

All I want is for the board (who I don’t believe have the best interests of the club at heart) and manager to be a bit more
accountable for this mess and for posters on here to stop coming out with regurgitated one liners to invalidate

to invalidate other poster's opinions/thoughts/feelings*

[Westleigh]

You e watched Burnley for 65 years and only just found this forum in November 23?

No.

[Newcastleclaret93]

you have to include wages...........that's the reason we didn't sign them

Tbf not all of them are on unmanageable wages. More than half of that list should fit our wage structure.

Then some exceptions like Xhaka we would have had to have been creative and potentially offered signing on bonuses etc….

But unfortunately we are in a league where the top players cost top bucks. I think someone like a Loftus cheek or Xhaka in midfield completely changes our outlook.

[Casper2]

Because it’s pretty boring to watch you, Bumba, Westleigh, NewcastleClaret, CoolClaret, Stayindown4ever absolutely destroy this place by hoping we lose so you can all post. Even after a good result it’s negative topic and negative topic.

You lot were moaning after 2-3 games this season, you didn’t even give the manager and team a chance to learn/adapt before going for the neck.

now you’re stuck in a position where if the team is successful you look like idiots so you want us to fail.

Last season the team was successful so what did Newcastle and Stayindown4ever post? They slagged off individual players. Westleigh has 400 posts and not a single slight positive comment amongst them.

At least when I was moaning on here it was after Dyche had been here a long time and the football had become stale, some of you simply don’t want to give VK time to learn from mistakes made and for the team to develop. I think we will bounce back stronger, you don’t, you can argue toss about it and moan all the way through it but time is the only way to see. Time he has earned. Rough with the smooth n all that.

You really wasted your time typing that rubbish, how dare you say I and others hope we lose , I’ll post what I want thanks and ignore your nonsense.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Tbf not all of them are on unmanageable wages. More than half of that list should fit our wage structure.

Then some exceptions like Xhaka we would have had to have been creative and potentially offered signing on bonuses etc….

But unfortunately we are in a league where the top players cost top bucks. I think someone like a Loftus cheek or Xhaka in midfield completely changes our outlook.

Someone like Lotfus-cheek would improve our midfield.

Someone playing for AC Milan 3rd in Serie A and also still in Europe after knocking Newcastle out would improve our midfield. He also signed was it a 4 yr or 5 yr deal on about 75k a week.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Someone like Lotfus-cheek would improve our midfield.

Someone playing for AC Milan 3rd in Serie A and also still in Europe after knocking Newcastle out would improve our midfield. He also signed was it a 4 yr or 5 yr deal on about 75k a week.

I get your point but he wasn’t at AC Milan in the summer. It’s not like we can’t attract decent players, we signed Weghorst and Cornet both players with arguably more pedigree than RLC.

75k a week should be manageable (although right at the very top end of our pay structure).

[claretonthecoast1882]

I get your point but he wasn’t at AC Milan in the summer. It’s not like we can’t attract decent players, we signed Weghorst and Cornet both players with arguably more pedigree than RLC.

75k a week should be manageable (although right at the very top end of our pay structure).

I would be surprised if we are paying 75k a week to anyone in this squad. No he wasn't at Milan but that was one of his options to choose from.

We did sign Weghorst and Cornet with better pedigree and still went down and then they wanted out.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Someone like Lotfus-cheek would improve our midfield.

Someone playing for AC Milan 3rd in Serie A and also still in Europe after knocking Newcastle out would improve our midfield. He also signed was it a 4 yr or 5 yr deal on about 75k a week.

Not a bad shout but I doubt he would come here now, maybe last summer was the best time but looks like we didn’t even prioritise that position as I predicted.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I would be surprised if we are paying 75k a week to anyone in this squad. No he wasn't at Milan but that was one of his options to choose from.

We did sign Weghorst and Cornet with better pedigree and still went down and then they wanted out.

I doubt anyone in our squad is on that (perhaps maybe Taylor or Brownhill). But the point is experienced pros who have spent there career at the top level cost that kind of money.

If we could have got someone like him it would transform this team.

[NewClaret]

That's such a snobby and disrespectful attitude. What do you say to Luton fans?

It’s got nothing to do with Luton. But I don’t say anything to their fans as I don’t know any so it’s not being disrespectful to them at all.

I imagine they would be delighted to stay up by defending every game, nicking the odd lucky win and points off the big boys, and rightly so. They’re up in the big time and most likely want to extend their stay as long as possible.

But I think their fans wo get bored of it eventually. The combination of defensive football and continuous relegation cycles isn’t the best to watch over the longer term, is it?

Nor is it being snobby to say we’ve done our time playing that system in this league, in my opinion. It’s effective for a period and will eventually catch up on you. I’m no longer obsessed with retaining premiership status at all costs and would much rather watch an entertaining championship fpotball than a defensive premiership football.

[NewClaret]

Yes I was moaning early in the season because I knew from the first game VK had made a big mistake throwing last season's team to one side.

Muric aside (I accept that point) can you explain to me who from last years team has been thrown to one side? Like a run through of the players you think this has happened to…

[quoonbeatz]

..............

[spt_claret]

Yes but so does literally every prem club?

The main point being they all prioritise the starting team with experienced pros and sign younguns cheap so that if it does fail the team doesn’t suffer.

Our biggest issue is we haven’t spent the money wisely. Imagine this starting eleven this 3 or 4 experienced pros around 15m mark. It completely changes the team. Instead we spent it all on young kids, some of them barely even have a season game time let alone top level experience.

This is the frustrating thing for me.

Brentford and Brighton are the 2 clubs to emulate for this model. Lot of fans have said it, lot of people in football have said it.

At no point did either walk the Championship, then proceed to jettison the majority of that successful team for a swathe of youngsters who they rebuilt the team around. Trafford and Verbruggen are incomparable. Verbruggen LAST year might have been a similar comparison, but Verbruggen came into Brighton after a breakthrough season in Belgium that led to callups to the senior Dutch squad, into a Brighton team that by now has an established core, and rotates the keeper- he's played 8 of their games. Trafford came in off a U21 campaign and football at League 1 and is the only player who is undroppable regardless of form or tactics.

Koleosho was a gamble that paid off until his injury.

Tresor- yeah that's the sort of Brighton/Brentford signing, unfortunately he's not worked at all so far. Larsen is a similar profile, faring a bit better got a couple goals and some decent plays, not electric but okay.

Berge is a standard promoted team signing- snatch the best player from a promoted rival. Good signing.

The rest are to a man buying potential and expecting potential to cut it now. We had people questioning if Taylor was good enough, or good enough for Kompany's system, and didn't sign an alternative let alone an upgrade. We knew we were going into this season with Jay as backup striker when we let Wout go (even if we figured Obafemi might be fit sooner), and didn't bring someone in. There were questions over Roberts at RB from his last PL season, Vitinho's still young enough to be up in the air but we took a gamble again there. Questions over Brownhill, Cork, and Cullen- 1 struggled last time, 1's old, 1 never made the grade at this level before- we only made the 1 CM improvement.

It's been done to death but nothing made sense about our summer recruitment from a perspective of trying to stay up OR trying to fit this magical 'model', unless it was entirely done by people locked in a room with a laptop looking at raw data without context. I work in data and you have to understand data in the context it's obtained and applied, and how your use of data can then change the model and change future data collection. We almost seem to have looked at "what attributes produce profitable players" - flair, pace, getting goals/highlight reels, being a winger, adding a new nation to the club/league list for marketing purposes - then signed whoever hits this metric highest relative to their fee, rather than tried to build or upgrade on the actual team, to improve our foundation for successful player development/trading in the Prem.

[spt_claret]

These are some of the pros that were bought and sold this window in that range.

Xhaka - 12m
Loftus Cheek - 15m
Castagne - 11m (we should have defo gone for him)
Barkley - Free
Y hererra - 5m
Fred - 8m
Harry winks - 9m
Masuaku - 2m (good option at left back as back up)
Bellegarde - 10m
Coady - 6m
Pepe - free transfer
Sanson - went on loan but was rumoured to be available for 10m
Igor - 12m

Fred got ridiculed but is a very good player, 8m is a snip. His current wages are 84k a week, absurd money but 4.3m a year. 12.3m as a first season signing, at 30 he's got 2-3 years left realistically, 16.6m for 2 years of him playing, sell him in the 3rd year or loan him out, probably worth it.

Coady at 6m, allegedly 52k a week at Leicester that's 2.7m a year. At 30, probably 2-3 years left in his position. 8.7m for 1 year, 11.4m for 2 years, 14.1m for 3 years. Pretty good business.

Castagne 11m, 62k a week at Fulham 3.2m a year. He's 28, you've got probably 4-5 more good years in him. 14.2m for 1 year, 17.4m for 2, 20.6 for 3, sell him and recoup a bit. Expensive, but potentially decent business.

Barkley was a gamble on paper as he'd done nothing for a while, but on a free that's a decent gamble and worked very well for Luton (as has Townsend).

Masuaku earns 44k at Besiktas, 2.2m a year, 30 so again, 2-3 years left in him, 4.2m for 1 year, 6.4m for 2, 8.6m for 3. Not a world beater player, expensive for a backup but still cheaper than a lot of what we've signed.

Winks is 27 which is an ideal age, at 9m not cheap, at 61k a week wages are 3.1m a year, he's got 5 maybe 6 years left in him. 1 year is 12.1m, 2nd is 15.2m, 3rd is 18.3, still probably room to recoup some of that after year 3. Decent investment broken down like that.

When you consider the fees we've paid for some players yet to justify it (yes I know these include conditional payments, might be the top end, etc.) can definitely understand going for some of these over say, Tresor, Odobert, Delcroix, O'Shea, or Trafford. Or Redmond given we seem unwilling to use him more. You can't commit entirely to the old pro route or you run out of road, but there's definitely a handful there that I'd say would have been worth it.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Fred got ridiculed but is a very good player, 8m is a snip. His current wages are 84k a week, absurd money but 4.3m a year. 12.3m as a first season signing, at 30 he's got 2-3 years left realistically, 16.6m for 2 years of him playing, sell him in the 3rd year or loan him out, probably worth it.

Coady at 6m, allegedly 52k a week at Leicester that's 2.7m a year. At 30, probably 2-3 years left in his position. 8.7m for 1 year, 11.4m for 2 years, 14.1m for 3 years. Pretty good business.

Castagne 11m, 62k a week at Fulham 3.2m a year. He's 28, you've got probably 4-5 more good years in him. 14.2m for 1 year, 17.4m for 2, 20.6 for 3, sell him and recoup a bit. Expensive, but potentially decent business.

Barkley was a gamble on paper as he'd done nothing for a while, but on a free that's a decent gamble and worked very well for Luton (as has Townsend).

Masuaku earns 44k at Besiktas, 2.2m a year, 30 so again, 2-3 years left in him, 4.2m for 1 year, 6.4m for 2, 8.6m for 3. Not a world beater player, expensive for a backup but still cheaper than a lot of what we've signed.

Winks is 27 which is an ideal age, at 9m not cheap, at 61k a week wages are 3.1m a year, he's got 5 maybe 6 years left in him. 1 year is 12.1m, 2nd is 15.2m, 3rd is 18.3, still probably room to recoup some of that after year 3. Decent investment broken down like that.

When you consider the fees we've paid for some players yet to justify it (yes I know these include conditional payments, might be the top end, etc.) can definitely understand going for some of these over say, Tresor, Odobert, Delcroix, O'Shea, or Trafford. Or Redmond given we seem unwilling to use him more. You can't commit entirely to the old pro route or you run out of road, but there's definitely a handful there that I'd say would have been worth it.

It’s all about balance we can sign young lads to develop and sell on but we needed some prem experience. We should have prioritised the league position and then worked on young lads

[ChorltonCharlie]

You say we aren't converting chances and had 14 shots yesterday, can you name me a decent chance we missed? Or a good save Pickford made?

You say we've signed better players but a squad isn't built on just buying better players you've gotta have everybody pulling in the same direction, everybody happy, VK upset last seasons squad straight away this year so all those will want out in January or the summer. Also the better players we've signed will be gone I'd anticipate at least 15 players leaving in the summer, that's another complete rebuild so how strong this season's squad is is completely irrelevant.

Everybody can see there's a huge difference in quality but if you can't see we are setting up completely wrong game after game then there's no point arguing with you about it either, if we go down and come back up playing the same do you think we'd suddenly survive that year?
There's more chance of staying down for a long time than there is of bouncing straight back, no sensible club takes that risk

Exactly, we didn't have a single decent chance. The highest xG for any attempt we had on Saturday was 0.12. It's been the same for weeks, with at best one decent chance in 90 minutes, and in quite a few games none at all.

I think a poster above nailed it. Despite the noises from the club, I think they thought they could comfortable stay up and recruitment would be the same magic wand as last year.

You don't need to be 'VK out' to recognise that our performances are completely unacceptable. We're on course for being one of the worst ever Premier League teams in history. Relegation was always going to be realistic this season, but we had a starting point that meant we should at least be fighting to stay up. That we're not even in a battle is why it is unacceptable. As others have said, the idea that you can wash away a season like this in pre-season with no major changes is naïve. We have a bloated squad full of naffed off players. You're either playing and fed up of losing every week, or you're in the background wondering why you aren't being given a chance in front of under-performing team mates. Just like 2 years ago when players started questioning Dyche's methods, that will be happening now with this squad and Kompany. The phrase lost the dressing room is so cliched, but dressing rooms are clique places and they don't react well to losing every week.

[bumba]

Muric aside (I accept that point) can you explain to me who from last years team has been thrown to one side? Like a run through of the players you think this has happened to…

Muric , Zaroury, Benson(was fit first game), Brownhill, Cork, Taylor at the start, Roberts now off the top of my head

[IanMcL]

A BeinSports snd that infamous couple, having their say!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... ore-target

[NewClaret]

Muric , Zaroury, Benson(was fit first game), Brownhill, Cork, Taylor at the start, Roberts now off the top of my head

Muric - get that.

Zaroury - don’t get the point on this one. He was absolutely honking post WC and has been when he played this season. Koleosho has been our most dangerous player but also levels above him defensively. I don’t really see how anyone could say VK should’ve been starting Zaroury over Koleosho (love Zaroury btw).

Benson - not sure he’s ever been fit. Missed all of pre-season then injured himself again vs Salford.

Brownhill - he’s our captain. Missed a few games early doors for reasons unknown but he’s certainly not out of favour and if he ever was, VK has quickly learned his lesson.

Taylor - ditto. Quickly brought back in. Playing every game now.

Roberts - started the season, did pretty well, got a red and Vitinho has come in and done very well. Creates something most games. Worth noting his missus has just had a baby and maybe he’s getting some parental leave?

In short, bar Muric, I don’t think anyone has been ‘thrown to one side’ in the way you say.

[NewClaret]

Duplicate

[IanMcL]

Two

[CoolClaret]

Zaroury - don’t get the point on this one. He was absolutely honking post WC

Complete myth that gets regurgitated

Bagged twice in the cup away at Bournemouth

Bagged and assisted multiple other league games - including two important ones, home against West Brom and away at Norwich.

Ekdal was also not preferred to start the season (and isn’t once again).

[bumba]

Muric - get that.

Zaroury - don’t get the point on this one. He was absolutely honking post WC and has been when he played this season. Koleosho has been our most dangerous player but also levels above him defensively. I don’t really see how anyone could say VK should’ve been starting Zaroury over Koleosho (love Zaroury btw).

Benson - not sure he’s ever been fit. Missed all of pre-season then injured himself again vs Salford.

Brownhill - he’s our captain. Missed a few games early doors for reasons unknown but he’s certainly not out of favour and if he ever was, VK has quickly learned his lesson.

Taylor - ditto. Quickly brought back in. Playing every game now.

Roberts - started the season, did pretty well, got a red and Vitinho has come in and done very well. Creates something most games. Worth noting his missus has just had a baby and maybe he’s getting some parental leave?

In short, bar Muric, I don’t think anyone has been ‘thrown to one side’ in the way you say.

How many goals and assists has Koleosho got? He's been very impressive but I still believe Zaroury should have started and Koleosho used as an impact sub then through good cameos be giving he spot.
Brownhill was fit and on the bench regardless if VK changed it now he was dropped to start, same with Taylor.
Benson was on the bench first game.
Vitinho has had 1 or 2 decent games but he doesn't offer much going forward and is worse at defending he's a very poor full back at this level.

[Stproc]

So, all the championship sides have to do next season to beat us is…
To play like an in-form premier league side with a good manager & having broken fair play spending.
We’re doomed!

[ŽižkovClaret]

The issue for me is where we see the same basic issues again and again.

Crap marking at set pieces, corners etc rarely beating the first man. Its all painfully repetitive

[Newcastleclaret93]

So, all the championship sides have to do next season to beat us is…
To play like an in-form premier league side with a good manager & having broken fair play spending.
We’re doomed!

Tbf the other 12 twelve teams that have beaten this season arnt all in form with good managers. They all certainly haven’t broken fair play spending either

[NewClaret]

The issue for me is where we see the same basic issues again and again.

Crap marking at set pieces, corners etc rarely beating the first man. Its all painfully repetitive

Set pieces at either end do seem a massive problem.

[Ric_C]

The thing is, we do have the experience. Maybe we should go with this for a bit to take the younger lads out of the firing line

Muric

Roberts Ekdal Beyer Taylor

Berge Cork

JBG Brownhill Redmond

Foster

[RicardoMontalban]

The thing is, we do have the experience. Maybe we should go with this for a bit to take the younger lads out of the firing line

Muric

Roberts Ekdal Beyer Taylor

Berge Cork

JBG Brownhill Redmond

Foster

At least two of those are currently injured.

[ŽižkovClaret]

Can't help feeling we need a couple of "dogs of war" type players that opposition would hate to play against.

Where is our Kevin Ball, our Barton (Ignoring recent output)? We simply don't have a b*******d Roy Keane type who will frighten opposition and frankly his own team mates into action.

[Jamesy]

Can't help feeling we need a couple of "dogs of war" type players that opposition would hate to play against.

Where is our Kevin Ball, our Barton (Ignoring recent output)? We simply don't have a b*******d Roy Keane type who will frighten opposition and frankly his own team mates into action.

Instead we have about six or seven wide players who all look similar in terms of hairstyles and physique and are frightened of their own shadows!

[NewClaret]

Can't help feeling we need a couple of "dogs of war" type players that opposition would hate to play against.

Where is our Kevin Ball, our Barton (Ignoring recent output)? We simply don't have a b*******d Roy Keane type who will frighten opposition and frankly his own team mates into action.

How many of those actually exist though?

It’d be interesting to run through all prem teams and list a player in each of that kind of ilk. There’s not many about, I don’t think (not disagreeing with your point).

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Can't help feeling we need a couple of "dogs of war" type players that opposition would hate to play against.

Where is our Kevin Ball, our Barton (Ignoring recent output)? We simply don't have a b*******d Roy Keane type who will frighten opposition and frankly his own team mates into action.

We’ve been needing one of those for ages, massive oversight on our part. Centre mid has been powder puff for years. Cork and Hendrick were last ones that could hack it at this level under Dyche.

[CoolClaret]

I don’t disagree with that. Dyche is a good manager, knows the Premier League (unlike our current manager) and has a much better set of players now than he had when he was here.

My point was if playing like they did yesterday is the only way we could win matches at this level then I’d rather not be in this league.

Mourinhos first stint at Chelsea not for you then?

Proper football that for me.

Powerful, dominant centre halves/defensive midfielder and striker with just a bit of flair drizzled in.

Proper