19 games in, 19 games to go...

[CoolClaret]

So we have officialy reached the half way point through the Premier League season, where we find ourselves to have:

Played 19
Won 3
Drawn 2
Lost 14

Resulting in a halfway total of 11 points and a win rate of 15.79%

I said after 10 games or so that the next time we can really judge where we're at is after the half way stage so here's my attempt -

Vincent Kompany -

Adament that his tactics and team selections early in the season negatively impacted the performances on the field as well as the unity/alignment in the stands.

It was pretty hard to get behind players that were getting battered every week that had done absolutely nothing in a Burnley shirt..

In recent weeks it has been encouraging to see that VK has been a lot quicker to react to changes made by the opposition and more proactive to get on the front foot in games - earlier in the season he was definitely being out thought off opposition managers so this is a positive sign

Still in the belief that some of our play style - trying to play out almost at all times is daft and sets the players up for failure. Believe that we'd be fairing much better with a better mix of our play.

Recruitment -

We have obviously signed some talented players but for the life of me I still can't figure out why we have so many players that like to play in the same position - on the left. This isn't a dig on the players as individuals but I think we'd have been sitting a lot prettier right now with a smarter allocation of funds.

Still have some reservations that prospects are favoured on what value they may return in a sale after 2 seasons or so of play time over what value they can immediately provide to the team. Obviously a balance here is needed - young prospects that can have a high ROI help with the health of the club etc but we still have to remember about the short term - putting on regular decent performances, giving the fans something to get behind and giving the club the best chance to win points in every game we play.

There is also more to building a team than plonking quality players together and expecting it to work from the off though we are slowly getting there - just happen to be lucky that the bottom 4/5 teams are very poor this season in the PL and we aren't completely cut adrift.

More continuity needed going forward; we simply cannot take 10-15 games to start to gel every season and expect it to work - that's only going to end in failure.

Club/Board -

Pretty obvious that they've gotten a hell of a lot wrong off the field this season. Catering/email/drummer/seating and clearly prioritising the one off day tripper than long standing fans.
I'm not a fan of their business model or practices at all and probably never will be, though of course if we are performing well then - interesting to see the accounts come April

Overall Rating so far 4/10 -

For me it has been a very underwhelming campaign so far after a 10/10 season last year. The good news is that there's still time to turn it around!

#UTC

Keen to here your thoughts!

[Ric_C]

"underwhelming campaign" is being very kind

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

You've got to hand it to VK, with an appalling record in this league he is very relaxed about it, even the commentators yesterday were praising him about his demeanour

[evensteadiereddie]

So we have officialy reached the half way point through the Premier League season, where we find ourselves to have:

Played 19
Won 3
Drawn 2
Lost 14

Resulting in a halfway total of 11 points and a win rate of 15.79%

I said after 10 games or so that the next time we can really judge where we're at is after the half way stage so here's my attempt -

Vincent Kompany -

Adament that his tactics and team selections early in the season negatively impacted the performances on the field as well as the unity/alignment in the stands.

It was pretty hard to get behind players that were getting battered every week that had done absolutely nothing in a Burnley shirt..

In recent weeks it has been encouraging to see that VK has been a lot quicker to react to changes made by the opposition and more proactive to get on the front foot in games - earlier in the season he was definitely being out thought off opposition managers so this is a positive sign

Still in the belief that some of our play style - trying to play out almost at all times is daft and sets the players up for failure. Believe that we'd be fairing much better with a better mix of our play.

Recruitment -

We have obviously signed some talented players but for the life of me I still can't figure out why we have so many players that like to play in the same position - on the left. This isn't a dig on the players as individuals but I think we'd have been sitting a lot prettier right now with a smarter allocation of funds.

Still have some reservations that prospects are favoured on what value they may return in a sale after 2 seasons or so of play time over what value they can immediately provide to the team. Obviously a balance here is needed - young prospects that can have a high ROI help with the health of the club etc but we still have to remember about the short term - putting on regular decent performances, giving the fans something to get behind and giving the club the best chance to win points in every game we play.

There is also more to building a team than plonking quality players together and expecting it to work from the off though we are slowly getting there - just happen to be lucky that the bottom 4/5 teams are very poor this season in the PL and we aren't completely cut adrift.

More continuity needed going forward; we simply cannot take 10-15 games to start to gel every season and expect it to work - that's only going to end in failure.

Club/Board -

Pretty obvious that they've gotten a hell of a lot wrong off the field this season. Catering/email/drummer/seating and clearly prioritising the one off day tripper than long standing fans.
I'm not a fan of their business model or practices at all and probably never will be, though of course if we are performing well then - interesting to see the accounts come April

Overall Rating so far 4/10 -

For me it has been a very underwhelming campaign so far after a 10/10 season last year. The good news is that there's still time to turn it around!

#UTC

Keen to here your thoughts!

I'm sure if you think hard enough there's plenty more for you to bellyache about.

[CoolClaret]

I'm sure if you think hard enough there's plenty more for you to bellyache about.

Easy isn't it to not offer an opinion and just snipe at others' instead.

[ClaretLoup]

Just to get things in perspective Brian Law’s got 11points from 18 games and VK has the same points from 19.

[ksrclaret]

I'm sure if you think hard enough there's plenty more for you to bellyache about.

In the spirit of New Year and resolutions, try to be a bit more pleasant to folk in future.

It makes this message board a nicer place. See CT’s thread a couple of weeks ago.

[Wokingclaret]

Plenty to worry about


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67823799

[Wokingclaret]

Championship may no longer be a walk in the park

[NewClaret]

Championship may no longer be a walk in the park

I’m just watching all yesterday’s games.

If we keep our current team we’ll absolutely destroy it. It’s awful compared to the quality of the Premier League.

[CoolClaret]

I’m just watching all yesterday’s games.

If we keep our current team we’ll absolutely destroy it. It’s awful compared to the quality of the Premier League.

We will certainly have the most quality -

Just feel we will lack the steel/guile/nous to churn out consistent performances against teams that will resort to shithousery

[Stan Tastic]

Just to get things in perspective Brian Law’s got 11points from 18 games and VK has the same points from 19.

Misplaced apostrophe of the season award.

[ClaretPete001]

I’m just watching all yesterday’s games.

If we keep our current team we’ll absolutely destroy it. It’s awful compared to the quality of the Premier League.

I tend to think this is pointless speculation.

We don't know what the state of the finances are and the clauses in the contracts of the players.

We could possibly lose Berge, Brownhill, Foster and Kolosheo, which would dramatically weaken the team.

Another relegation and potentially a third complete re-build is very risky and exactly the kind of thing that the sensible posters on here feared from the start.

Fundamentally, this team is better than 11 points in 19 games and the issue has been the selection and in game management of VK.

The expectation is that we should be fighting for our place in the PL and not pondering on how we would fare in the Championship because we don't know what team we would be left with in that league nor what constraints the state of the finances would impose on the owners.

[groove]

Good summary

[RVclaret]

Championship may no longer be a walk in the park

Southampton, rock bottom of the Prem last season, 22 points all season, on a 16 game unbeaten run despite losing all their best players. Ryan Fraser starring in a 5-0 win yesterday.

[Wokingclaret]

RVClaret

They may have to accept the playoffs and then there is Leeds

The old problem of Parachute payments again

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67823799

[CoolClaret]

Any thoughts in our player of the season so far?

Berge or Chaz for me. Probably leaning to Berge for impact, though Chaz has undoubtedly been the most consistent.

[ClaretPete001]

Southampton, rock bottom of the Prem last season, 22 points all season, on a 16 game unbeaten run despite losing all their best players. Ryan Fraser starring in a 5-0 win yesterday.

Not sure the point here either.. Watford and Norwich went down with us last time and are currently 10th and 12th.

[ClaretPete001]

Any thoughts in our player of the season so far?

Berge or Chaz for me. Probably leaning to Berge for impact, though Chaz has undoubtedly been the most consistent.

It's off topic but it would be Berge for me by some distance.

[jrgbfc]

There's no sugar coating it this season has been a disaster. I think we're doomed, but as long as we go down showing a bit of fight I'm not too fussed. I'm definitely not Kompany out but after how much of a mess he made last summer maybe he has too much control on the football side?

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

How much did Laws spend in his tenure?

[Swizzlestick]

Berge is easily player of the season so far.

[CoolClaret]

There's no sugar coating it this season has been a disaster. I think we're doomed, but as long as we go down showing a bit of fight I'm not too fussed. I'm definitely not Kompany out but after how much of a mess he made last summer maybe he has too much control on the football side?

it’s dependent on whatever the overriding goal is for the board I guess.

If the goal is to simply be a club to showcase talent and try and sell for profit and not be too reliant on retaining PL status then it’s going fine - though I’m not sure it’s something that Burnley fans long term will be too happy about.

If it was to come up, speculate and mission critical to retain PL status, with the player development second - then yeah it’s been disastrous (so far)

[Iloveyoubrady]

At the end of the day, we don’t know what we will have to do in the summer to balance the books. But if we kept most of this squad, it is not unreasonable to say with VK we will walk the championship. As poor as we have been at times this season, I think it’s relatively obvious we are a better side than we were last season. Zaroury was one of our best players last year for example, and he looked absolutely shite in the prem when he played.

[CoolClaret]

At the end of the day, we don’t know what we will have to do in the summer to balance the books. But if we kept most of this squad, it is not unreasonable to say with VK we will walk the championship. As poor as we have been at times this season, I think it’s relatively obvious we are a better side than we were last season. Zaroury was one of our best players last year for example, and he looked absolutely shite in the prem when he played.

He’s barely had a chance though in all fairness -

Going off one off appearances you could say that about any one of the players (bar Chaz prob) because they’ve all had at least one dogturd game

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

it’s dependent on whatever the overriding goal is for the board I guess.

If the goal is to simply be a club to showcase talent and try and sell for profit and not be too reliant on retaining PL status then it’s going fine - though I’m not sure it’s something that Burnley fans long term will be too happy about.

If it was to come up, speculate and mission critical to retain PL status, with the player development second - then yeah it’s been disastrous (so far)

In his post match Amazon interview yesterday VK said he has turned down other clubs to be here this season so basically count yourselves un(lucky)

[Newcastleclaret93]

Southampton, rock bottom of the Prem last season, 22 points all season, on a 16 game unbeaten run despite losing all their best players. Ryan Fraser starring in a 5-0 win yesterday.

Tbf didn’t Southampton only lose 3 players from there starting eleven?

You’re making out like they had a complete rebuild. There eleven yesterday featured 7 players that regularly played last season and three of there better players from last season were sat on the bench (in Adams, Alacarez and Fraser)

[CoolClaret]

In his post match Amazon interview yesterday VK said he has turned down other clubs to be here this season so basically count yourselves un(lucky)

I didn’t catch that so can’t really comment - if true then that’s disappointing.

[NewClaret]

We will certainly have the most quality -

Just feel we will lack the steel/guile/nous to churn out consistent performances against teams that will resort to shithousery

The only player we’ve really lost from the one that won it at a canter who contributed to our ‘steel’ is Barnsey. The rest all remain, although I think it’s unlikely we’ll keep Brownhill if he’s not for signing a new contract.

I don’t see that as an issue. We were the experts of Shithousery in the Prem and invariably teams with a lot of quality find a way to overcome it.

We’ve far greater attacking talent than we had last year, assuming we kept it all. For me, I’d rather not sign a single player in January or summer and keep this squad together.

[CoolClaret]

The only player we’ve really lost from the one that won it at a canter who contributed to our ‘steel’ is Barnsey. The rest all remain, although I think it’s unlikely we’ll keep Brownhill if he’s not for signing a new contract.

I don’t see that as an issue. We were the experts of Shithousery in the Prem and invariably teams with a lot of quality find a way to overcome it.

We’ve far greater attacking talent than we had last year, assuming we kept it all. For me, I’d rather not sign a single player in January or summer and keep this squad together.

Not entirely true -

Jay will be gone that added nous/leadership and helped with continuity between the seasons. Also another that’s good in both boxes at set pieces (especially in the champ)

Cork absolutely added steel leadership and defensive solidarity - another that will be gone.

JBG another year older - not sure if he’s still under contract? Could be gone..

Then as you say, Brownhill.

Chaz Is also OOC in the summer I believe…. That is a significant departure of the players that remained from the Dyche era.

I’m not in any way, shape or form doubting VKs/recruitment teams ability in finding talented players but have reservations on finding those players that add that guile and leadership on the field… Cullen of course last season had it along with THB and O’Shea has started to grow in that regard but the others that he’s brought in don’t seem that type.

[ClaretPete001]

Tbf didn’t Southampton only lose 3 players from there starting eleven?

You’re making out like they had a complete rebuild. There eleven yesterday featured 7 players that regularly played last season and three of there better players from last season were sat on the bench (in Adams, Alacarez and Fraser)

They also spent over £20 million and brought in some good loan players not to mention THB.

Leeds and Leicester have also spent a lot of money on players in recent years and went down because of poor management as much as anything else.

[RVclaret]

Not sure the point here either.. Watford and Norwich went down with us last time and are currently 10th and 12th.

Both made some awful recruitment / managerial decisions and didn’t recruit well in the Prem.

Part of the reason we should stick by Kompany and aim to retain the majority of this squad.

[CoolClaret]

Both made some awful recruitment / managerial decisions and didn’t recruit well in the Prem.

Part of the reason we should stick by Kompany and aim to retain the majority of this squad.

Agreed with this but i’m not so sure that‘s the current ‘model’

Recall numerous sound bites of VK referencing him preferring a ‘high turnover of players’.

Wouldn’t surprise me if come August 2024 half the starting lineup are completely new players.

[RVclaret]

Agreed with this but i’m not so sure that‘s the current ‘model’

Recall numerous sound bites of VK referencing him preferring a ‘high turnover of players’.

Wouldn’t surprise me if come August 2024 half the starting lineup are completely new players.

I think you are referring to Kompany making a comment based on how his managerial career has been so far. He was talking about how it is good at first to implement your own style quickly.

Time will tell what happens but I’m hoping/semi-confident we would retain the majority.

[Carlos the Great]

Agreed with this but i’m not so sure that‘s the current ‘model’

Recall numerous sound bites of VK referencing him preferring a ‘high turnover of players’.

Wouldn’t surprise me if come August 2024 half the starting lineup are completely new players.
[/quote

We seem good at recruiting lots of players … but ..if we are to continue in lots of new recruitments ee are going to have to be able to move players on .. presumably for a profit or we will be swamped

[CoolClaret]

I think you are referring to Kompany making a comment based on how his managerial career has been so far. He was talking about how it is good at first to implement your own style quickly.

Time will tell what happens but I’m hoping/semi-confident we would retain the majority.

You could well be right!

I really do hope we do retain the players - I think that continuity is vital and helps give the supporters something to get behind.

Amount of blokes I know early season asking who so and so were when team news broke in the boozers …

[Elizabeth]

My belief this season is that we would improve over the season and that is happening. It’s an awful long way away from survival but I still believe we will continue to improve.
I don’t know if it will be enough but I don’t think we will be that far away come the end of the season

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

I didn’t catch that so can’t really comment - if true then that’s disappointing.

Yes i find his interviews largely hilarious, only a multi millionaire footballer could be so blaze about these performances, not a care in the world.

If you have amazon video it will be on catch up maybe if you scroll to the end.

[ClaretPete001]

Both made some awful recruitment / managerial decisions and didn’t recruit well in the Prem.

Part of the reason we should stick by Kompany and aim to retain the majority of this squad.

Obviously, it's a matter of opinion but both went down because of managerial decisions and not the quality of the squad. Both had good squads capable of surviving in the PL particularly Leicester. And both had at least one reasonably successful campaign in the PL prior to relegation.

Our squad is a new one that has won 11 points in 19 games in the PL so you maybe of the opinion it would easily win the Championship but there is little to compare it to Leeds, Leicester, Southampton or even last year's successful Championship winning squad.

We don't know what will remain of the squad and I guess who is retained will be out of our hands.

And let's be honest, writing the squad off in December says much...

[Cornwallclaret]

My take on next season if we go down, we may lose oderbert, kolesheo and berge along with brownhill but we’ve still got zaroury, benson, Ramsey who all did well in the championship along with massengo ( who we haven’t seen yet) we’ll be reyt

[ClaretPete001]

My take on next season if we go down, we may lose oderbert, kolesheo and berge along with brownhill but we’ve still got zaroury, benson, Ramsey who all did well in the championship along with massengo ( who we haven’t seen yet) we’ll be reyt

You've based your point on having two wingers who actually played in the Championship team while losing 4 of the better players we have....

Just not sure that is a convincing argument...

[Goliath]

Yes i find his interviews largely hilarious, only a multi millionaire footballer could be so blaze about these performances, not a care in the world.

If you have amazon video it will be on catch up maybe if you scroll to the end.

This clearly isnt what he was saying. He was pointing out the fickleness of the media as they were touting him for big jobs in the summer and now were asking how long he will be backed at Burnley.
It was quite obvious this is what he was saying so its quite underhand to suggest otherwise

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

This clearly isnt what he was saying. He was pointing out the fickleness of the media as they were touting him for big jobs in the summer and now were asking how long he will be backed at Burnley.
It was quite obvious this is what he was saying so its quite underhand to suggest otherwise

I was pretty sure the meaning behind it was what i said above but i will watch it again and make sure (thumbsup)

[ksrclaret]

I can see Berge and Odobert being sold in the summer for profits - both have shown they are capable at PL level. I could also see Trafford attracting attention if he keeps improving at the rate he is doing, although it might be difficult for clubs to get to a fee for him that represents a big enough profit given the amount we paid for him.

On top of that, I think the likes of Amdouni and Tresor will have agents busy all summer trying to get them out of the club and into a foreign league. I can see loan moves being agreed for those two.

The ones we’ll left with will certainly be more than good enough for the Championship, but I very much doubt we’ll walk the league again. I’ve seen Southampton mentioned on here - they’re hardly walking the league, despite obviously having a good season.

[Spijed]

If we do go down hopefully, Leicester, Southampton & Leeds will get promoted.

It might be hard for Ipswich to maintain their form going into next season, and the rest of the competition doesn't look too difficult.

[RVclaret]

I can see Berge and Odobert being sold in the summer for profits - both have shown they are capable at PL level. I could also see Trafford attracting attention if he keeps improving at the rate he is doing, although it might be difficult for clubs to get to a fee for him that represents a big enough profit given the amount we paid for him.

On top of that, I think the likes of Amdouni and Tresor will have agents busy all summer trying to get them out of the club and into a foreign league. I can see loan moves being agreed for those two.

The ones we’ll left with will certainly be more than good enough for the Championship, but I very much doubt we’ll walk the league again. I’ve seen Southampton mentioned on here - they’re hardly walking the league, despite obviously having a good season.

Some good points made there. Agree Odobert will have lots of eyes on him now. If he keeps up this form he might see bids north of £20m (Leeds apparently rejected that from us for Summerville). Berge did stick around with Sheff to be fair. On the Southampton thing, think they actually have more or less the same amount of points we did at the same stage, Ipswich and Leicester have just been having freak seasons. Only 5 points off the former now though.

Even with those few (possibly) leaving you’re still left with something like

Trafford
Roberts/Vitinho
O’Shea/Ekdal
Beyer/AAD
New/Delcroix
Larsen/Benson
Brownhill/JBG
Cullen/Massengo
Koleosho/Zaroury
Ramsey/Redmond
Foster/Obafemi

Then there’s new signings this Jan and summer.

[bumba]

Some good points made there. Agree Odobert will have lots of eyes on him now. If he keeps up this form he might see bids north of £20m (Leeds apparently rejected that from us for Summerville). Berge did stick around with Sheff to be fair. On the Southampton thing, think they actually have more or less the same amount of points we did at the same stage, Ipswich and Leicester have just been having freak seasons. Only 5 points off the former now though.

Even with those few (possibly) leaving you’re still left with something like

Trafford
Roberts/Vitinho
O’Shea/Ekdal
Beyer/AAD
New/Delcroix
Larsen/Benson
Brownhill/JBG
Cullen/Massengo
Koleosho/Zaroury
Ramsey/Redmond
Foster/Obafemi

Then there’s new signings this Jan and summer.

Certain we would try to move Foster on as VK made it clear he was a premier league striker and not championship so why keep him?
Zaroury I can see leaving in January.

[RVclaret]

Certain we would try to move Foster on as VK made it clear he was a premier league striker and not championship so why keep him?
Zaroury I can see leaving in January.

Given Lyle’s health priorities and new 5 year contract there may be more reasons to stay where he is than move. Will be interesting to see what happens with Zaroury.

[Guller Bull]

Some good points made there. Agree Odobert will have lots of eyes on him now. If he keeps up this form he might see bids north of £20m (Leeds apparently rejected that from us for Summerville). Berge did stick around with Sheff to be fair. On the Southampton thing, think they actually have more or less the same amount of points we did at the same stage, Ipswich and Leicester have just been having freak seasons. Only 5 points off the former now though.

Even with those few (possibly) leaving you’re still left with something like

Trafford
Roberts/Vitinho
O’Shea/Ekdal
Beyer/AAD
New/Delcroix
Larsen/Benson
Brownhill/JBG
Cullen/Massengo
Koleosho/Zaroury
Ramsey/Redmond
Foster/Obafemi

Then there’s new signings this Jan and summer.

Also McNally, Twine, Dodgson and a few others still around to come back in and fight for places in a Championship team

[South West Claret.]

If Company sign's a striker who can score some goals then I think they will have a good chance of staying up.