19 games in, 19 games to go...

[evensteadiereddie]

In the spirit of New Year and resolutions, try to be a bit more pleasant to folk in future.

It makes this message board a nicer place. See CT’s thread a couple of weeks ago.

Yes, I have, I was part of the discussion and I think it was accepted that if a person posted something ridiculous, it's quite OK to challenge that in a respectful fashion.
I have.
The bloke has little good to say about the Clarets in what is, let's face it, a season of discovery.
His 4 out of 10 will look ridiculous in the coming seasons.
Sorry for any offence.

[k90bfc]

Why oh why,did VK,destroy last seasons team,so soon,Champions,and them still here,being treated terrible,not even been given a chance,where we are and what VK is doing,what can we expect,only he knows!

[ksrclaret]

Yes, I have, I was part of the discussion and I think it was accepted that if a person posted something ridiculous, it's quite OK to challenge that in a respectful fashion.
I have.
The bloke has little good to say about the Clarets in what is, let's face it, a season of discovery.
His 4 out of 10 will look ridiculous in the coming seasons.
Sorry for any offence.

That's okay, thanks for your explanation and apology. I'd suggest you recalibrate your definition of respectful, mind.

Have a peaceful New Year.

[Jakubs Tash]

There eleven yesterday featured 7 players that regularly played last season and three of there better players from last season were sat on the bench (in Adams, Alacarez and Fraser)

Fraser only signed on loan for them in August 2023. Not sure how he could be one of their better players from last season based on that….

[CoolClaret]

Yes, I have, I was part of the discussion and I think it was accepted that if a person posted something ridiculous, it's quite OK to challenge that in a respectful fashion.
I have.
The bloke has little good to say about the Clarets in what is, let's face it, a season of discovery.
His 4 out of 10 will look ridiculous in the coming seasons.
Sorry for any offence.

Can you tell me what was ridiculous about my OP, which was designed to stimulate a bit of debate and opinion on what is a dreary afternoon. It isn’t a ‘troll’, I’m trying to be objective. I encourage people to disagree and provide their reasoning… anyone can snipe like a snide from the side like.

Was it meant to be a ‘season of discovery’?
Is that what you were thinking in May 2023, or have you revised your expectation given the disastrous start?

Am I allowed to have an opinion that’s different from ‘my club is wonderful and everything it does is great’ ?

I said so far this season in question is a 4/10 but said it could yet improve.

What would you rate it?

[evensteadiereddie]

For a so called objective view, there is an awful lot of negativity concerning the club's efforts on and off the field.
As I've said countless times - or "sniped" as you seem to prefer - we are an incredibly inexperienced side in arguably the worlds toughest league and are improving month by month.
I just don't understand folk who can't see the bigger picture.
You want to give our season 4 out 10, that's up to you.
Are you unable or unwilling to see how, perhaps, this season is one of development and, yes, "discovery" to gain that experience and strength, mental and physical, that we are undoubtedly lacking?
As for your embarrassing "Aren't people allowed to disagree" crap, I think we've all moved on from that.
I wonder if the judging of whether a season, on and off the field, is 4 or more out of ten comes down to how much experience of how long you've been watching the Clarets?
Before you say it, I'm not claiming the longer you've watched the Clarets makes you a better fan but, by Christ, it doesn't half help you put what's happening into some kind of perspective.
Either way, each to his own, but for what it's worth, I'm happy to see how we do next year before writing this one off as a poor one.

[roperclaret]

We will certainly have the most quality -

Just feel we will lack the steel/guile/nous to churn out consistent performances against teams that will resort to shithousery

What, like last year?

[CoolClaret]

For a so called objective view, there is an awful lot of negativity concerning the club's efforts on and off the field.
As I've said countless times - or "sniped" as you seem to prefer - we are an incredibly inexperienced side in arguably the worlds toughest league and are improving month by month.
I just don't understand folk who can't see the bigger picture.
You want to give our season 4 out 10, that's up to you.
Are you unable or unwilling to see how, perhaps, this season is one of development and, yes, "discovery" to gain that experience and strength, mental and physical, that we are undoubtedly lacking?
As for your embarrassing "Aren't people allowed to disagree" crap, I think we've all moved on from that.
I wonder if the judging of whether a season, on and off the field, is 4 or more out of ten comes down to how much experience of how long you've been watching the Clarets?
Before you say it, I'm not claiming the longer you've watched the Clarets makes you a better fan but, by Christ, it doesn't half help you put what's happening into some kind of perspective.
Either way, each to his own, but for what it's worth, I'm happy to see how we do next year before writing this one off as a poor one.

I've been watching since the mid 90's -

Because I think the club has underperformed so far (you seem to be omitting the 'so far' part in your retorts) this season in a lot of departments, as do many others - surely you can't deny that?

It was the clubs' idea to buy predominantly inexperienced youngsters, no one forced them to - it could work out and we could prosper for it in the medium-longer term but in the context of this season alone given where we were at in May 2023 it has been dissappointing for me - I think we should have given it a better go than we have so far.

Football is defined/reflected on from season to season... using your logic the 2021-22 season was good because 2022-23 was brilliant - doesn't make any sense does it? It's purely in the context of this season.

The 4/10 is because the results and performances on the whole have been shite, the off the field stuff has been shite but the shining lights are some of the youngsters.

Notice how you still didn't give a rating? It's so easy to sit there and offer 0 opinion but tear into anyone elses

[CoolClaret]

What, like last year?

Yeah - a lot of that spine/leadership will be gone

[evensteadiereddie]

I've been watching since the mid 90's -

Because I think the club has underperformed so far (you seem to be omitting the 'so far' part in your retorts) this season in a lot of departments, as do many others - surely you can't deny that?

It was the clubs' idea to buy predominantly inexperienced youngsters, no one forced them to - it could work out and we could prosper for it in the medium-longer term but in the context of this season alone given where we were at in May 2023 it has been dissappointing for me - I think we should have given it a better go than we have so far.

Football is defined/reflected on from season to season... using your logic the 2021-22 season was good because 2022-23 was brilliant - doesn't make any sense does it? It's purely in the context of this season.

The 4/10 is because the results and performances on the whole have been shite, the off the field stuff has been shite but the shining lights are some of the youngsters.

Notice how you still didn't give a rating? It's so easy to sit there and offer 0 opinion but tear into anyone elses

Sorry, did you not understand?
I see no point in giving this season including what's happening on and off the field any kind of rating out of ten because, as I sniped quite clearly but obviously not clearly enough for you, that I see this season as one unlike any other.
So many changes, a different plan for moving forward, radical even, and only a beginning.
If you're doing the short term stuff, judging in terms of PL survival then it's a 0 or 1.
As for anything else, it's a matter of wait and see for me.
If you think that's sitting on the fence or sniping from the sidelines I couldn't care less.
I'm looking for improvement this season - which is happening - and more development next season and beyond, which I'm confident about.
As for the off field stuff, I couldn't give a damn.
I turn up, usually enjoy the games - I thought yesterday was an interesting one - and drive home.

[Vegas Claret]

expectations and knowledge of the Premier League seem to be out of kilter for soooooo many

[evensteadiereddie]

It does make you wonder.

[CoolClaret]

Sorry, did you not understand?
I see no point in giving this season including what's happening on and off the field any kind of rating out of ten because, as I sniped quite clearly but obviously not clearly enough for you, that I see this season as one unlike any other.
So many changes, a different plan for moving forward, radical even, and only a beginning.
If you're doing the short term stuff, judging in terms of PL survival then it's a 0 or 1.
As for anything else, it's a matter of wait and see for me.
If you think that's sitting on the fence or sniping from the sidelines I couldn't care less.
I'm looking for improvement this season - which is happening - and more development next season and beyond, which I'm confident about.
As for the off field stuff, I couldn't give a damn.
I turn up, usually enjoy the games - I thought yesterday was an interesting one - and drive home.

So why bother posting in this thread then?

What's with the passive aggressive nature on here? Can posters not have a debate without sly digs - 'not clearly enough for you' any need?
It's really pathetic!

No - it's not a binary choice based solely on PL survival or not - it's overall enjoyment factor amongst various other factors - you can attribute your own to it.

Yesterday was indeed an improvement from early season and marked an improvement... that isn't to say some of the other games early in the season weren't terrible. You cannot possibly sit here and say you took much enjoyment or positives for example from the Villa/Chelsea/Spurs games at home?

Again, I don't think this would have been yours or any other fans' idea of how the season would've panned out in May 2023 - that has been truly revised as the season started and went on.

I still believe we would have faired much better with a slightly different approach to the season - one that would've been just as beneficial long term.

[Jakubclaret]

Sorry, did you not understand?
I see no point in giving this season including what's happening on and off the field any kind of rating out of ten because, as I sniped quite clearly but obviously not clearly enough for you, that I see this season as one unlike any other.
So many changes, a different plan for moving forward, radical even, and only a beginning.
If you're doing the short term stuff, judging in terms of PL survival then it's a 0 or 1.
As for anything else, it's a matter of wait and see for me.
If you think that's sitting on the fence or sniping from the sidelines I couldn't care less.
I'm looking for improvement this season - which is happening - and more development next season and beyond, which I'm confident about.
As for the off field stuff, I couldn't give a damn.
I turn up, usually enjoy the games - I thought yesterday was an interesting one - and drive home.

Thing is though it’s not what some people expected this development season malarkey. Last season’s promotion was supposed to indicate some sort of meaningful intent that a good go would be made not this learning curve & people constantly making mistakes & reassurances that it’s normal & part of the development process. It appears to me that it’s a ready made excuse for being ill equipped & not preparing properly for the season ahead.

[Elizabeth]

So we have officialy reached the half way point through the Premier League season, where we find ourselves to have:

Played 19
Won 3
Drawn 2
Lost 14

Resulting in a halfway total of 11 points and a win rate of 15.79%

I said after 10 games or so that the next time we can really judge where we're at is after the half way stage so here's my attempt -

Vincent Kompany -

Adament that his tactics and team selections early in the season negatively impacted the performances on the field as well as the unity/alignment in the stands.

It was pretty hard to get behind players that were getting battered every week that had done absolutely nothing in a Burnley shirt..

In recent weeks it has been encouraging to see that VK has been a lot quicker to react to changes made by the opposition and more proactive to get on the front foot in games - earlier in the season he was definitely being out thought off opposition managers so this is a positive sign

Still in the belief that some of our play style - trying to play out almost at all times is daft and sets the players up for failure. Believe that we'd be fairing much better with a better mix of our play.

Recruitment -

We have obviously signed some talented players but for the life of me I still can't figure out why we have so many players that like to play in the same position - on the left. This isn't a dig on the players as individuals but I think we'd have been sitting a lot prettier right now with a smarter allocation of funds.

Still have some reservations that prospects are favoured on what value they may return in a sale after 2 seasons or so of play time over what value they can immediately provide to the team. Obviously a balance here is needed - young prospects that can have a high ROI help with the health of the club etc but we still have to remember about the short term - putting on regular decent performances, giving the fans something to get behind and giving the club the best chance to win points in every game we play.

There is also more to building a team than plonking quality players together and expecting it to work from the off though we are slowly getting there - just happen to be lucky that the bottom 4/5 teams are very poor this season in the PL and we aren't completely cut adrift.

More continuity needed going forward; we simply cannot take 10-15 games to start to gel every season and expect it to work - that's only going to end in failure.

Club/Board -

Pretty obvious that they've gotten a hell of a lot wrong off the field this season. Catering/email/drummer/seating and clearly prioritising the one off day tripper than long standing fans.
I'm not a fan of their business model or practices at all and probably never will be, though of course if we are performing well then - interesting to see the accounts come April

Overall Rating so far 4/10 -

For me it has been a very underwhelming campaign so far after a 10/10 season last year. The good news is that there's still time to turn it around!

#UTC

Keen to here your thoughts!

December results :
Played 6 , won 2 ,drawn 1 , lost 3 . Scored 8 Conceded 6 .
Points achieved in 50% of the games played, a third of the games won.

A clear indication that we improved results and margins considerably as the first half of the season progressed.

Vincent Kompany

His methods are beginning to work.

Recruitment

His young signings are learning quickly and the club have got it more right than wrong

Club/ Board

Miles off appreciating what is a good fan experience for Burnley supporters

Overall rating so far 6/10

For me it has been a case of slowly winning fans around and for most there is now hope that we can avoid relegation. Those with over expectations at the start of the season will be struggling to appreciate the journey.

[jojomk1]

expectations and knowledge of the Premier League seem to be out of kilter for soooooo many

But that should not have been the case for our manager given his knowledge of playing at this level for so many years

This season he has failed in many attempts to make us competitive at the lower end of this demanding league

Building for the future without any semblance of bringing in the obvious PL experience that all newly promoted sides need was not a sound idea

[evensteadiereddie]

Very good, pleased for you.
You seem to be arguing, with passive aggression or otherwise, with yourself.
You've got your perspective of where we are, I've got mine.

[CoolClaret]

expectations and knowledge of the Premier League seem to be out of kilter for soooooo many

I just thought we'd be fairing better than 11 points from 19 - that's fair right? I never once said we'd be pushing top half or anything daft like that

You have made comment in various threads about the lopsided nature of the squad that you think is a bit daft (or words to that effect) - so what prompts you to assume a holier-than-thou demeanor in other discussions?

[Bosscat]

Ffs fellahs give it a rest

200w.gif (871.74 KiB) Viewed 1258 times

[CoolClaret]

December results :
Played 6 , won 2 ,drawn 1 , lost 3 . Scored 8 Conceded 6 .
Points achieved in 50% of the games played, a third of the games won.

A clear indication that we improved results and margins considerably as the first half of the season progressed.

Vincent Kompany

His methods are beginning to work.

Recruitment

His young signings are learning quickly and the club have got it more right than wrong

Club/ Board

Miles off appreciating what is a good fan experience for Burnley supporters

Overall rating so far 6/10

For me it has been a case of slowly winning fans around and for most there is now hope that we can avoid relegation. Those with over expectations at the start of the season will be struggling to appreciate the journey.

There we go, that's all I wanted

Thanks for your opinion and input

[evensteadiereddie]

[CoolClaret]

Very good, pleased for you.
You seem to be arguing, with passive aggression or otherwise, with yourself.
You've got your perspective of where we are, I've got mine.

I appreciate any and all opinions that are sincere - lets just not be flippant and dismissive, eh?

I may disagree with you/others as you and others no doubt do with me - but it is a messageboard, if you think I'm wrong then I'll accept it given good reasoning.

[evensteadiereddie]

I was perfectly sincere, buddy, the fact that you couldn't accept my opinion is your problem not mine.
Anyway, I guess we're both BFC supporters in our own way.

[Elizabeth]

There we go, that's all I wanted

Thanks for your opinion and input

I know you are passionate about the club and have lived and breathed every moment of this season more than most.

I've also recognised that your opinions are always honest and that is not a characteristic I could describe of some posters. I never mind disagreeing with posters who are genuine.

I really believe the positive signs we have seen on the field lately are a good indication that the players are beginning to mature and believe in themselves. It might be that I am getting carried away but if Kompany pulls this off, next season will be amazing and eclipse last season's wonders.

If I'm wrong then it will have to be dealt with hopefully with Kompany as manager and most of this season's exciting signings still here.

[CoolClaret]

I was perfectly sincere, buddy, the fact that you couldn't accept my opinion is your problem not mine.
Anyway, I guess we're both BFC supporters in our own way.

I do accept it, just don’t agree with it (which is fine!)

- I just asked if it’s the same opinion/expectation that you had in May 2023? If it is then fair enough - I just think that it would’ve been slightly different.

[evensteadiereddie]

I would have hoped for better, wouldn't we all?
Expectation is a different matter and I've always erred on the side of caution - I've followed the Clarets for a long time after all and adopted the wait and see approach.
Others want instant success, instant judgements and so on but I prefer to look at, as Elizabeth patiently and kindly pointed out in real terms, the progress we are making in the context of this season and next.

[Vegas Claret]

But that should not have been the case for our manager given his knowledge of playing at this level for so many years

This season he has failed in many attempts to make us competitive at the lower end of this demanding league

Building for the future without any semblance of bringing in the obvious PL experience that all newly promoted sides need was not a sound idea

Frank Lampard
Steven Gerrard

Playing experience means jack ****, Mourinho, Wenger, Klopp, Ferguson and Dyche were bang average players at best

[Vegas Claret]

I just thought we'd be fairing better than 11 points from 19 - that's fair right? I never once said we'd be pushing top half or anything daft like that

You have made comment in various threads about the lopsided nature of the squad that you think is a bit daft (or words to that effect) - so what prompts you to assume a holier-than-thou demeanor in other discussions?

not sure where you've got that last part from, proper ******* paranoid.

I expected us to have fared better but I expected a relegation fight. There's post I made in July about Southampton, take a look at that.

[CoolClaret]

not sure where you've got that last part from, proper ******* paranoid.

I expected us to have fared better but I expected a relegation fight. There's post I made in July about Southampton, take a look at that.

Anything but paranoid Vegas!

I’m not experiencing fear and loathing just yet…

Seems like we had the same expectations then!

[Vegas Claret]

Anything but paranoid Vegas!

I’m not experiencing fear and loathing just yet…

Seems like we had the same expectations then!

I hoped we would do but but expected what we are seeing 100%, I said as much in July. FAR FAR too many 'young prospects' signed to compete at this level at the moment but for me the future looks really bright for us as a club. Mistakes made but they will learn, I'm not the slightest bit concerned if we drop.

[KRBFC]

Another negative topic after another defeat, predictable really. I didn’t think your slight positivity after beating Fulham would last long.

I think the team and manager is improving and becoming considerably more competitive in every game. Even the games we are losing, we’re right in it fighting and narrowly losing.

The next step is turning those narrow 1-0 defeats into 1-1 draws. Thought we should have taken something against Palace at home. The West Ham home game was a freak. Wolves away we were just flat second half but got into so many areas where we could’ve easily nicked a point late on.

[Vegas Claret]

Another negative topic after another defeat, predictable really. I didn’t think your slight positivity after beating Fulham would last long.

I think the team and manager is improving and becoming considerably more competitive in every game. Even the games we are losing, we’re right in it fighting and narrowly losing.

The next step is turning those narrow 1-0 defeats into 1-1 draws. Thought we should have taken something against Palace at home. The West Ham home game was a freak. Wolves away we were just flat second half but got into so many areas where we could’ve easily nicked a point late on.

desperately need another CF, it said an awful lot yesterday that Redmond was preferred to Jay

[CoolClaret]

Another negative topic after another defeat, predictable really. I didn’t think your slight positivity after beating Fulham would last long.

I think the team and manager is improving and becoming considerably more competitive in every game. Even the games we are losing, we’re right in it fighting and narrowly losing.

The next step is turning those narrow 1-0 defeats into 1-1 draws. Thought we should have taken something against Palace at home. The West Ham home game was a freak. Wolves away we were just flat second half but got into so many areas where we could’ve easily nicked a point late on.

On reflection I may have leaned a tad too much on the negative though I did include glimmers of hope - I also opened the post for others to add their own thoughts.

Agreed - on turning the narrow results in our favour, just need to get on the right side of the ‘fine margins’ as a wise man would say…

Next time to reflect on the season will be 3/4 of the way in.

Let’s hope at that time there’s even more room for positivity

[evensteadiereddie]

If fans are prepared to look for the positives, they'll find them.
Fingers crossed.

[Spijed]

It might be that I am getting carried away but if Kompany pulls this off, next season will be amazing and eclipse last season's wonders.

What do you realistically think is the maximum we can achieve?

[Elizabeth]

What do you realistically think is the maximum we can achieve?

Short term ambition - avoid relegation this season

Mid term ambition - top half in Season 2-3 Premier League

Long term ambition - Europe in Season 5+ Premier League

If my short term goal isn’t achieved then timescales would need to be re-adjusted by a year or two.

And you ?

[Vegas Claret]

Why oh why,did VK,destroy last seasons team,so soon,Champions,and them still here,being treated terrible,not even been given a chance,where we are and what VK is doing,what can we expect,only he knows!

when you consider Cullen was our best player last season and when he has payed this season he's been woeful maybe the manager is right

[NewClaret]

I tend to think this is pointless speculation.

We don't know what the state of the finances are and the clauses in the contracts of the players.

We could possibly lose Berge, Brownhill, Foster and Kolosheo, which would dramatically weaken the team.

Another relegation and potentially a third complete re-build is very risky and exactly the kind of thing that the sensible posters on here feared from the start.

Fundamentally, this team is better than 11 points in 19 games and the issue has been the selection and in game management of VK.

The expectation is that we should be fighting for our place in the PL and not pondering on how we would fare in the Championship because we don't know what team we would be left with in that league nor what constraints the state of the finances would impose on the owners.

I agree we should be fighting for our place in the PL and see no signs we’re not. Fulham was a poor but battling performance, aided by putting away a couple of chances. Yesterday was a better performance in my view, hindered by not putting away a whole host of chances we should’ve done better with. But the common factor in both was some real hard work and battling to stay in the game during some difficult spells.

I disagree that we’re a fundamentally better team than the table shows, but we still have some real talent. Whether we can keep it, is, as you say, dependent on finances we know little about. I’d rather we spend nothing in Jan if it means we can keep this team together in summer.

Those losses (would include Odobert in that) would weaken the team but would also provide funds to strengthen again, presumably. One things for sure though, the rebuild would be far less drastic as it was in the previous two summers because the core of our championship winning team remains and has been strengthened.

[Spijed]

Short term ambition - avoid relegation this season

Mid term ambition - top half in Season 2-3 Premier League

Long term ambition - Europe in Season 5+ Premier League

If my short term goal isn’t achieved then timescales would need to be re-adjusted by a year or two.

And you ?

As always, surviving, and maybe the odd surprise like Europa League, but without throwing too much money at it. That's always my biggest fear in that we get too confident, spend too much, get relegated but don't return for MANY years.

[CoolClaret]

when you consider Cullen was our best player last season and when he has payed this season he's been woeful maybe the manager is right

He was fair set up to failure tbf - the shape early season was mental - he had absolutely 0 help in the middle

[Spijed]

Short term ambition - avoid relegation this season

Mid term ambition - top half in Season 2-3 Premier League

Long term ambition - Europe in Season 5+ Premier League

If my short term goal isn’t achieved then timescales would need to be re-adjusted by a year or two.

And you ?

I certainly agree that Europe should always be possible, since we've done it once, so why not?

[Elizabeth]

As always, surviving, and maybe the odd surprise like Europa League, but without throwing too much money at it. That's always my biggest fear in that we get too confident, spend too much, get relegated but don't return for MANY years.

There’s been some talk about the merits of speculation tonight . For me, it’s entertainment and natural human behaviour.
Anyone who has seen us go from Div1 champions to within a game of non league football will now be of a certain age that means nothing gets to them the same anymore.
Of course I would hate to see that happen for the younger ones but then again they have the advantage of seeing life and football in a different way and look forward rather than back.
I’m going to enjoy this new exciting journey for 2 reasons:
I have no control anyway , and it’s something the club and fans have never come anywhere near experiencing before

[Elizabeth]

I’d love to win the FA Cup !!!!!

[bumba]

Given Lyle’s health priorities and new 5 year contract there may be more reasons to stay where he is than move. Will be interesting to see what happens with Zaroury.

I hope we keep him, I'm just going off what VK said in the documentary about him not being a championship striker. If he isn't going to perform in the championship maybe the club will look to sell