AV we got a thread v Burnley or is this it?

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:17 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:11 pm
Battled hard and showed a lot of fight and you can see the team slowly grow and get more competitive just a shame its unlikely to be enough to keep us up.

Anyone moaning about VAR or the ref about the key decision is just very biased towards the team they support as Fosters goal was clearly offside, Villa's second was clearly onside and it was a stonewall penalty with Ramsey taking a heavy touch and kicking the Villa players boot instead of the ball

Did Leeds lose again yesterday. Was it a good game

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:17 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:11 pm
Battled hard and showed a lot of fight and you can see the team slowly grow and get more competitive just a shame its unlikely to be enough to keep us up.

Anyone moaning about VAR or the ref about the key decision is just very biased towards the team they support as Fosters goal was clearly offside, Villa's second was clearly onside and it was a stonewall penalty with Ramsey taking a heavy touch and kicking the Villa players boot instead of the ball

Drats! It's far more exciting to be onboard with the universal PL conspiracy that the world is against us.

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:17 pm

The thing is you always know what you're gonna get with Attwell in charge

The sh!ttest of the sh!t and should have never been allowed anywhere near a football pitch again after he gave that goal against Watford that actually went 5 yards wide all those years ago

Longtimeclaret · Post by **Longtimeclaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:18 pm

The ref , Attwell is a Luton fan
Obviously it didn’t affect his decision making today!!

SussexDon1inIreland · Post by **SussexDon1inIreland** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:18 pm

Why did their player roll around 4 times? When a player rolls around it means he is diving

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:18 pm

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:16 pm
What about the blatant handball from their defender that prevented a goal scoring chance?

The Berge second yellow is harsh IMO, normally referees will give a little leeway.

The penalty, does he even touch him?

What can the ref do about the handball if he didnt see it in real time. Its not a red and its not a penalty so nothing can be done. The Berge 2nd yellow is as clear cut as it gets and cant believe you are seriously questioning that

Exsus · Post by **Exsus** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:19 pm

We never seem to get a fair go, another sickener.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:19 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:18 pm
What can the ref do about the handball if he didnt see it in real time. Its not a red and its not a penalty so nothing can be done. The Berge 2nd yellow is as clear cut as it gets and cant believe you are seriously questioning that

A deliberate handball aiming to deny a clear goal scoring opportunity is surely a red card offence?

JimmyRobbo · Post by **JimmyRobbo** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:20 pm

Westleigh wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:12 pm
You listen to pundits when the ref doesn’t give a pen and they say there wasn’t enough contact,if the ref gives it they say the forward felt a touch so it’s ok to go down,just paying lip service to the narrative.

Absolutely bang on.

As I mentioned at HT. Football is reffed to a concensus. Unfortunately, for us, that consensus is that they don't expect us to get those decisions and the concencus accepts it. The bottom line is that we are not big enough to have those marginal advantages. (Selective stills shown to referees like at Forest are a prime example.)

spt_claret · Post by **spt_claret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:20 pm

My God we didn't deserve to lose that. Rallied twice (nice to finally see those signs of steel), battled hard with 10 men, to lose to a farcical pen that goes in off Trafford's back is just crushingly unlucky and unfair on the lads.
There's a lot of games this season where I've disagreed with the notion that we played well in defeat or had good signs/deserved more from the game but we absolutely deserved the draw today. Can't tell if I'm gutted or furious.

Paulclaret · Post by **Paulclaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:20 pm

I think you could see how referees think by Mike Dean's reaction on Sky. "It's a penalty, he felt a touch and went down, like a good striker". Since when has any 'touch' been a foul?

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:20 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:18 pm
What can the ref do about the handball if he didnt see it in real time. Its not a red and its not a penalty so nothing can be done. The Berge 2nd yellow is as clear cut as it gets and cant believe you are seriously questioning that

Yes, I wondered why VAR was even discussed over that one if not in the box.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:20 pm

RVclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:19 pm
A deliberate handball aiming to deny a clear goal scoring opportunity is surely a red card offence?

It didnt clearly deny a goalscoring opportunity at all so never a red.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:21 pm

CoolClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:15 pm
I’d be sending Ramsey on loan again.

He’s nowhere near ready for PL football - doesn’t have to r mentality for it right now.

It’s tough but if that was Cullen on there instead we come away with a point today

This is the bit I’m finding hardest to swallow.

Such improvement in the team generally but we are still being undone by stupidity. How naive to bring Ramsey on to see out a result again. He’s cost us enough points already.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:21 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:11 pm
Battled hard and showed a lot of fight and you can see the team slowly grow and get more competitive just a shame its unlikely to be enough to keep us up.

Anyone moaning about VAR or the ref about the key decision is just very biased towards the team they support as Fosters goal was clearly offside, Villa's second was clearly onside and it was a stonewall penalty with Ramsey taking a heavy touch and kicking the Villa players boot instead of the ball

Hope you had a good day at West Brom yesterday.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:22 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:20 pm
It didnt clearly deny a goalscoring opportunity at all so never a red.

He’s deliberately hand balled it to deny Foster a chance at goal. It’s the last man. The way the ball was bouncing Foster may well have beat him to it and got a clear effort on goal.

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:22 pm

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:21 pm
This is the bit I’m finding hardest to swallow.

Such improvement in the team generally but we are still being undone by stupidity. How naive to bring Ramsey on to see out a result again. He’s cost us enough points already.

Totally correct

Wrong player, wrong time

Westleigh · Post by **Westleigh** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:22 pm

Longtimeclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:18 pm
The ref , Attwell is a Luton fan
Obviously it didn’t affect his decision making today!!

I suggested this a few days ago and got absolutely slated ,it makes you wonder after such an inept display from the ref

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:23 pm

JimmyRobbo wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:09 pm
Absolutely. One of the key areas SD had sorted was not losing to those around you. Those make the big differences and determine your fate.

In the 2021/2022 season that we were relegated we took just a single point from both games against Norwich and it was a similar story versus Leeds. That was the problem that we DIDN’T take maximum points from the teams that were around us.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:23 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:18 pm
What can the ref do about the handball if he didnt see it in real time. Its not a red and its not a penalty so nothing can be done. The Berge 2nd yellow is as clear cut as it gets and cant believe you are seriously questioning that

What was Berge first yellow for. Sadly the cameras missed it on my feed

sjb · Post by **sjb** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:24 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:16 pm
I dont care what he says, Ramsey kicked his boot which will cause anyone to lose balance when they are running

Ironic as nobody cares what you say.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:24 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:20 pm
It didnt clearly deny a goalscoring opportunity at all so never a red.

Even ex villa manager dean Smith thought it was....

ervi34 · Post by **ervi34** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:25 pm

FCBurnley wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:23 pm
What was Berge first yellow for. Sadly the cameras missed it on my feed

Pulled his man down while they were on the counter. Was a yellow.

JimmyRobbo · Post by **JimmyRobbo** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:25 pm

Westleigh wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:22 pm
I suggested this a few days ago and got absolutely slated ,it makes you wonder after such an inept display from the ref

Haha! I laughed at it the other day.

I still think the biggest problem is their lack of abillity rather than their allegiance affecting their decision making.

Still, more important in the process, is our ability to finish off a game.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:26 pm

RVclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:22 pm
He’s deliberately hand balled it to deny Foster a chance at goal. It’s the last man. The way the ball was bouncing Foster may well have beat him to it and got a clear effort on goal.

Your last bit is the key bit. It didnt stop Foster from being clear on goal. If I watch it back and but for the handball Foster would clearly be goal side of defender with the ball close to him to play easily then I'll hold my hands up and say Im wrong but from what I've seen I dont think Foster was clear and therefore have a clear goalscoring opportunity

DAVETHEVICAR · Post by **DAVETHEVICAR** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:26 pm

Match of the Day will clear up all these questions.

RicardoMontalban · Post by **RicardoMontalban** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:26 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:22 pm
Totally correct

Wrong player, wrong time

Who fills the Berge shaped hole in midfield after the red card? I don’t think it’s Amdouni or JBG, and looking at the bench I’m not sure who else. Unless you think we let Brownhill do it all.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:27 pm

sjb wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:24 pm
Ironic as nobody cares what you say.

Yet here you are replying

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:27 pm

RicardoMontalban wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:26 pm
Who fills the Berge shaped hole in midfield after the red card? I don’t think it’s Amdouni or JBG, and looking at the bench I’m not sure who else. Unless you think we let Brownhill do it all.

I mean - have a centre mid on the bench, that’s a start

JimmyRobbo · Post by **JimmyRobbo** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:28 pm

kentonclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:23 pm
In the 2021/2022 season that we were relegated we took just a single point from both games against Norwich and it was a similar story versus Leeds. That was the problem that we DIDN’T take maximum points from the teams that were around us.

Yes, I said during the Leeds game (perhaps on here) that not winning that game on the Turf where we had so many chances to kill the game off and then we conceded the raggy equaliser that we might regret not shutting down the game like previous seasons. I think it was part of the push for more "attacking" football as I recall. Things went downhill from there!

Goliath · Post by **Goliath** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:28 pm

RicardoMontalban wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:26 pm
Who fills the Berge shaped hole in midfield after the red card? I don’t think it’s Amdouni or JBG, and looking at the bench I’m not sure who else. Unless you think we let Brownhill do it all.

Cullens the only option. Corks a better play but not sure hes fit and even if he was he hasnt played all season

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:28 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:18 pm
What can the ref do about the handball if he didnt see it in real time. Its not a red and its not a penalty so nothing can be done. The Berge 2nd yellow is as clear cut as it gets and cant believe you are seriously questioning that

He’s through on goal if he doesn’t handle it, it’s a red card offense.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:29 pm

DAVETHEVICAR wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:26 pm
Match of the Day will clear up all these questions.

well played that man

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:31 pm

DAVETHEVICAR wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:26 pm
Match of the Day will clear up all these questions.

I wish

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:31 pm

RicardoMontalban wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:26 pm
Who fills the Berge shaped hole in midfield after the red card? I don’t think it’s Amdouni or JBG, and looking at the bench I’m not sure who else. Unless you think we let Brownhill do it all.

JBG has the experience and ability to play there but the issue is that Ramsey is too lightweight and inexperienced for centre mid in this league and shouldn’t be on the bench - despite what we paid for him

RicardoMontalban · Post by **RicardoMontalban** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:31 pm

CoolClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:27 pm
I mean - have a centre mid on the bench, that’s a start

Reasonable point, but in the game situation that we had at that point in the real world, who comes on? All well and good saying it was the wrong change, but a change had to be made at that moment.

lovebeingaclaret · Post by **lovebeingaclaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:32 pm

May I respectfully request that people do not quote devil advocates posts. I have him on ignore but unfortunately I sometimes read his diatribes when quoted.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:33 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:26 pm
Your last bit is the key bit. It didnt stop Foster from being clear on goal. If I watch it back and but for the handball Foster would clearly be goal side of defender with the ball close to him to play easily then I'll hold my hands up and say Im wrong but from what I've seen I dont think Foster was clear and therefore have a clear goalscoring opportunity

You focus on people being biased in favour of the club. But you're biased against it. The handball was a major error yet you didn't even mention it.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:33 pm

RicardoMontalban wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:26 pm
Who fills the Berge shaped hole in midfield after the red card? I don’t think it’s Amdouni or JBG, and looking at the bench I’m not sure who else. Unless you think we let Brownhill do it all.

It will be Cullen, I imagine, or maybe time for Massengo.

sjb · Post by **sjb** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:33 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:27 pm
Yet here you are replying

Indeed. Replying, not caring. Good trip to The Hawthorns yesterday?

Westleigh · Post by **Westleigh** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:33 pm

Longtimeclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:18 pm
The ref , Attwell is a Luton fan
Obviously it didn’t affect his decision making today!!

Read my post about who we shouldn’t have reffing Atwell was on the list ,but others say their just not good I reckon they’re biased.

RicardoMontalban · Post by **RicardoMontalban** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:33 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:31 pm
JBG has the experience and ability to play there but the issue is that Ramsey is too lightweight and inexperienced for centre mid in this league and shouldn’t be on the bench - despite what we paid for him

The JBG who got subbed 10 minutes later? He was never making 90 minutes, especially with the added running he’d need to do in CM.

Agree it exposes how light we are there, numbers wise, but I don’t know what sub he makes if not Ramsey?

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:35 pm

Longtimeclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:18 pm
The ref , Attwell is a Luton fan
Obviously it didn’t affect his decision making today!!

It's actually because he's just f*cking sh!t, always has been always will be

RicardoMontalban · Post by **RicardoMontalban** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:35 pm

Goliath wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:28 pm
Cullens the only option. Corks a better play but not sure hes fit and even if he was he hasnt played all season

I mean in that moment of the match. Cullen, for whatever reason isn’t on the bench so can’t come on. The point I was replying to was that Ramsey was the wrong sub to make. Playing 432 isn’t a sensible option, so who?

sjb · Post by **sjb** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:36 pm

lovebeingaclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:32 pm
May I respectfully request that people do not quote devil advocates posts. I have him on ignore but unfortunately I sometimes read his diatribes when quoted.

Apologies. I have never engaged with him previously and never will do again. Anybody like him who comes on here with a wind up straight after a gutting defeat like that clearly isn't a Burnley fan. Foe list activated for the self styled clown.

Safron · Post by **Safron** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:36 pm

boatshed bill wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:33 pm
It will be Cullen, I imagine, or maybe time for Massengo.

I'm hoping massengo gets his chance to impress

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:37 pm

Regardless of the rights and wrongs in terms of the officials we gave the 2nd best (on league position) team in the country a real fight today.
Cheer up, the future is bright.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:38 pm

taio wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:33 pm
You focus on people being biased in favour of the club. But you're biased against it. The handball was a major error yet you didn't even mention it.

Im not biased at all, I try and look at everything objectively regardless of what I want to happen. I've explained why i didnt mention the handball incident a couple of times already but to be a little clearer I was focusing on the VAR decisions and I didnt see that as even questionable and an decision for VAR to make. Therefore the ref missing a handball outside the area wasnt a key decision in my opinion.

Again as said if I watch it back and Foster is clearly through on goal but for the handball I'll accept I was wrong but that not what I saw watching it in real time and with the replays they showed during the game

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:39 pm

Westleigh wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:33 pm
Read my post about who we shouldn’t have reffing Atwell was on the list ,but others say their just not good I reckon they’re biased.

And this is why I dislike VAR, poor refs getting a second opinion on their poor decision making; they don't even need top get it right.

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:40 pm

RicardoMontalban wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:33 pm
The JBG who got subbed 10 minutes later? He was never making 90 minutes, especially with the added running he’d need to do in CM.

Agree it exposes how light we are there, numbers wise, but I don’t know what sub he makes if not Ramsey?

He didn’t have to use his bench. He could have moved Amdouni back.