Dear PGMOL

tally · Post by **tally** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:28 pm

Agreed! disgusting behaviour today

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:29 pm

Hopefully we make a big thing about those decisions today and don’t just let it slide.

MT03ALG · Post by **MT03ALG** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:30 pm

Corrupt and bribed

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:31 pm

No point. This is how the PGMOL want them to referee the game. Lots of free kicks, lots of penalties, VAR decisions to be seen as perfect for offside but to back up the ref for other decisions.

And if a player dives, however obvious the dive, give the foul unless you are utterly certain he wasn't touched. If the player doesn't dive, then it is no foul.

This is the PGMOL's desire.

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:31 pm

I said the same a few weeks ago with the Koleosho non penalty and the Martial identical claim the day after.

The big teams get the decisions, not because of corruption but the consequences of not giving these decisions to them and the microscopic analysis by the media after it and the fear it causes.

Nobody cares if the small teams get a correct decision but the fallout from it affecting the big clubs carries on for days.

123EasyasBFC · Post by **123EasyasBFC** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:32 pm

Refs and VAR need to do post match interviews to explain decisions, they get away with making incorrect decisions week in week out

ralph8 · Post by **ralph8** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:33 pm

Yes, maybe its time for some visual protest like Everton's Red Card- A limp rendition of - No one likes us - does not seem to be getting the message across.

Juan Tanamera · Post by **Juan Tanamera** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:33 pm

If we're really lucky we get another grovelling apology off Howard Webb and a lovely 3 points.
(I can dream).

spt_claret · Post by **spt_claret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:33 pm

MT03ALG wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:30 pm
Corrupt and bribed

Careful you'll get called a tinfoil conspiracy theorist.

I remain convinced that one day a major refereeing scandal will be exposed about the Prem. There's been corruption scandals in the Italian League. Corruption behind the World Cup allocations. Corruption in lots and lots of sports, and in big money industries. And the PL is the biggest-money league in the world, with a lot of very wealthy interests from around the world who have major financial, or sportswashing, stakes tied up in their clubs doing well. The introduction of PGMOL to improve refereeing standards has only made them worse. Pre-VAR, there was an analysis of decisions that would be overturned under VAR one season and we were concluded as the team that would see the largest or second largest points gain- look how it's panned out.
There's something very very wrong with the consistently inconsistent officiating in the Premier League which I do believe goes far beyond incompetence.

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:37 pm

The problem with VAR is it has to be black and white.

There's no point using a system that gives two different outcomes for identical situations because it goes with the on field decision. In that case you might as well do away with it and stick to the referee doing his job, it worked fine for over 100 years.

ALP · Post by **ALP** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:38 pm

The officiating at football matches that are elite level (allegedly) is quite simply shocking and more akin to grass roots with two pub teams with some awful decisions. It is time that your officials clamped down on the cheating that is very evident, I wonder why your officials are seeing that we must not be able to see? This game is now so bent it is shocking, like quite a few decisions today.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:39 pm

Goody1975 wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:37 pm
The problem with VAR is it has to be black and white.

There's no point using a system that gives two different outcomes for identical situations because it goes with the on field decision. In that case you might as well do away with it and stick to the referee doing his job, it worked fine for over 100 years.

clear and obvious.........

clear and obvious handball
clear and obvious incorrect award of a penalty - zero contact

It's just pure cheating. Name on the badge, no way that penalty gets given at the other end.

ALP · Post by **ALP** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:41 pm

Goody1975 wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:37 pm
The problem with VAR is it has to be black and white.

There's no point using a system that gives two different outcomes for identical situations because it goes with the on field decision. In that case you might as well do away with it and stick to the referee doing his job, it worked fine for over 100 years.

100% with you on that, put the laws of the game back to what they were instead of namby pamby offsides, ridiculous handballs and just get em booked for diving, as you say the game worked well for over 100 years. I've had enough of all this VAR shite, and rule changes that no bugger understands (like handball)

Superjohnnyfrancis · Post by **Superjohnnyfrancis** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:41 pm

Blame everyone apart from the inept sub you brought on

Westleigh · Post by **Westleigh** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:41 pm

We must be improving ,it’s the first time I’ve been angry this season.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:42 pm

In a very strong field that was the new clear leader for Worst Refereeing Performance of the Year.

Fortunately for us, it's probably the first time that onfield reffing has directly led to us missing out on points.

Disgraceful is the only word.

Westleigh · Post by **Westleigh** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:43 pm

ALP wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:41 pm
100% with you on that, put the laws of the game back to what they were instead of namby pamby offsides, ridiculous handballs and just get em booked for diving, as you say the game worked well for over 100 years. I've had enough of all this VAR shite, and rule changes that no bugger understands (like handball)

Berge had a goal disallowed early in the season for deliberate hand ball ,yet the Villa player didn’t touch it according to the officials.

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:46 pm

ALP wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:38 pm
The officiating at football matches that are elite level (allegedly) is quite simply shocking and more akin to grass roots with two pub teams with some awful decisions. It is time that your officials clamped down on the cheating that is very evident, I wonder why your officials are seeing that we must not be able to see? This game is now so bent it is shocking, like quite a few decisions today.

The fanfare that the tolerance for fouls had gone up doesn't seem to extend to the penalty area.

Ramsey kicks the underneath of his foot, it's contact but not enough to send him hurtling to the ground, the longer the 'powers that be' allow it the more they create their own situation.

Any doubts of the 100% legitimacy of a foul in the box should be no penalty. The punishment does not fit the crime in most instances and encourages cheating.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:48 pm

Superjohnnyfrancis wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:41 pm
Blame everyone apart from the inept sub you brought on

you mean the guy who did nothing wrong ? penalised for making no contact

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:49 pm

Westleigh wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:43 pm
Berge had a goal disallowed early in the season for deliberate hand ball ,yet the Villa player didn’t touch it according to the officials.

I can only presume they are saying he either accidentally played it off his thigh onto his arm or his hand moved naturally in the action of running.

Either way neither are correct and are imo opinion complete ********.

ALP · Post by **ALP** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:50 pm

Westleigh wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:43 pm
Berge had a goal disallowed early in the season for deliberate hand ball ,yet the Villa player didn’t touch it according to the officials.

Exactly, the goal at Forrest should have stood, never seen handball, and Dyche called it right with the Everton one the other night, it was again ball to hand; it's ********.

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:51 pm

: GMP_U2F2ZUdIMDE=.gif (278.79 KiB) Viewed 5387 times

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:57 pm

For me the frustration is more at a culmination of marginal decisions going against us as opposed to any real howlers.

The offside decisions were called correctly on the pitch and verified by VAR so there’s no issue there.

I can’t remember Berge’s first yellow. His second yellow, by the letter of the law is a yellow card offence however the shirt pull was so minor and inconsequential that a lot of refs would have just given a free kick or played advantage. This isn’t an error by the referee, just an example of inconsistencies when shirt pulls like that occur throughout a game and go unpunished.

The only error with the handball was that the officials didn’t see this in real time and award a free kick. Once the ref has missed it there was nothing the VAR could have done as the offence was outside the box and didn’t deny a clear goalscoring opportunity.

I knew the penalty would be reviewed but was angered when it was given as it was one of those all too common incidents where the referee’s original decision wouldn’t be overruled either way. I think most would agree that a player touching another player’s boot in the box shouldn’t be a penalty unless it obstructs or trips them. This was an obvious dive but because Ramsey made contact with Duran’s boot the VAR is never going to overrule the ref. It looked like Attwell was going to wave away the claims but he strangely seemed to have a change of heart.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:00 pm

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:57 pm

I can’t remember Berge’s first yellow. His second yellow, by the letter of the law is a yellow card offence however the shirt pull was so minor and inconsequential that a lot of refs would have just given a free kick or played advantage. This isn’t an error by the referee, just an example of inconsistencies when shirt pulls like that occur throughout a game and go unpunished.

Similar to one that went against Everton earlier in the season away at Liverpool, the Liverpool player didn’t get a second yellow for a clear shirt pull. Can’t remember who the Liverpool player was, I think it was Konate.

Taffy on the wing · Post by **Taffy on the wing** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:01 pm

spt_claret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:33 pm
Careful you'll get called a tinfoil conspiracy theorist.

I remain convinced that one day a major refereeing scandal will be exposed about the Prem. There's been corruption scandals in the Italian League. Corruption behind the World Cup allocations. Corruption in lots and lots of sports, and in big money industries. And the PL is the biggest-money league in the world, with a lot of very wealthy interests from around the world who have major financial, or sportswashing, stakes tied up in their clubs doing well. The introduction of PGMOL to improve refereeing standards has only made them worse. Pre-VAR, there was an analysis of decisions that would be overturned under VAR one season and we were concluded as the team that would see the largest or second largest points gain- look how it's panned out.
There's something very very wrong with the consistently inconsistent officiating in the Premier League which I do believe goes far beyond incompetence.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS!

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:01 pm

I mentioned above how the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

I think this stat is correct.

56 penalties awarded in the Premier League, 51 scored and 5 missed.

It's the equivalent of awarding a penalty try in rugby with those conversion rates.

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:01 pm

Weak, inept officiating on and off the pitch. It just continues to determine the outcome of a football match. The decision not to send off their player for handball in the 2nd half is a total mystery. Anyone watching, be it at the game or via media knew it was handball. The look on the defender's face showed he knew it. Everyone except those 'controlling' the game. They should be ashamed. Farcical and totally unacceptable.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:03 pm

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:57 pm
For me the frustration is more at a culmination of marginal decisions going against us as opposed to any real howlers.

The offside decisions were called correctly on the pitch and verified by VAR so there’s no issue there.

I can’t remember Berge’s first yellow. His second yellow, by the letter of the law is a yellow card offence however the shirt pull was so minor and inconsequential that a lot of refs would have just given a free kick or played advantage. This isn’t an error by the referee, just an example of inconsistencies when shirt pulls like that occur throughout a game and go unpunished.

The only error with the handball was that the officials didn’t see this in real time and award a free kick. Once the ref has missed it there was nothing the VAR could have done as the offence was outside the box and didn’t deny a clear goalscoring opportunity.

I knew the penalty would be reviewed but was angered when it was given as it was one of those all too common incidents where the referee’s original decision wouldn’t be overruled either way. I think most would agree that a player touching another player’s boot in the box shouldn’t be a penalty unless it obstructs or trips them. This was an obvious dive but because Ramsey made contact with Duran’s boot the VAR is never going to overrule the ref. It looked like Attwell was going to wave away the claims but he strangely seemed to have a change of heart.

Understand what you mean in terms of there being a feeling of marginal decisions going against us but there were plenty of howlers going on too:

In the first half when Foster tracked back and won the ball. He played on because he saw it correctly, then when the crowd started saying he brought it back for a non-existent free kick.

Only a few minutes later, a clear Villa corner turned into a goal kick. This decision alone gives me hope that he wasn't being deliberately bad.

Then there's the handball incident. Ill be able to live with it if it happens as you've described - that neither the ref nor linesman saw it. Sadly, I don't think that's what happened. I think he sees it clearly and decides to look right "through" the incident to avoid making the decision.

Admittedly I've not seen these back but these were all clear cut and easy decisions IMO.

Im going to watch the highlights and if I've changed my mind I'll post back and cut him some slack.

Taffy on the wing · Post by **Taffy on the wing** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:04 pm

Rowls wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:42 pm
In a very strong field that was the new clear leader for Worst Refereeing Performance of the Year.

Fortunately for us, it's probably the first time that onfield reffing has directly led to us missing out on points.

Disgraceful is the only word.

The Forest game?

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:05 pm

Rowls wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:03 pm
Understand what you mean in terms of there being a feeling of marginal decisions going against us but there were plenty of howlers going on too:

In the first half when Foster tracked back and won the ball. He played on because he saw it correctly, then when the crowd started saying he brought it back for a non-existent free kick.

Only a few minutes later, a clear Villa corner turned into a goal kick. This decision alone gives me hope that he wasn't being deliberately bad.

Then there's the handball incident.

Admittedly I've not seen these back but these were all clear cut and easy decisions IMO.

Im going to watch the highlights and if I've changed my mind I'll post back and cut him some slack.

By howlers I meant game-changing bad decisions. I agree there were also plenty of poor decisions throughout the game which didn’t affect the outcome. Missing the handball was a howler, but it would have resulted in a free kick at the edge of the box which we would have been unlikely to convert.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:06 pm

Taffy on the wing wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:04 pm
The Forest game?

Berge’s goal was disallowed by the VAR who had no business to intervene.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:06 pm

You are all biased idiots on here according to the Leeds fan Devils Advocate

roperclaret · Post by **roperclaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:07 pm

VAR was never about getting decisions correct. It was always about giving the officials a second chance to give the decision to the bigger more influential teams.

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:07 pm

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:57 pm
The only error with the handball was that the officials didn’t see this in real time and award a free kick. Once the ref has missed it there was nothing the VAR could have done as the offence was outside the box and didn’t deny a clear goalscoring opportunity.

This where I disagree, he denied a clear goalscoring opportunity and even though Foster got a shot away he was only able to swing a boot at it rather than have full control of the situation.

If it was at the other end what do we all think the decision would be?

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:08 pm

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:05 pm
By howlers I meant game-changing bad decisions. I agree there were also plenty of poor decisions throughout the game which didn’t affect the outcome. Missing the handball was a howler, but it would have resulted in a free kick at the edge of the box which we would have been unlikely to convert.

I don’t agree with your view on the handball only being a free kick and not being a clear goal scoring opportunity. The way the ball was bouncing, without Carlos’ deliberate action of handball, Foster had the running power and strength to force a clear goal scoring opportunity. As it happened, he has to take it at a very awkward angle. It’s a red every day (Mike Dean said the same on SSN).

Taffy on the wing · Post by **Taffy on the wing** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:08 pm

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:06 pm
Berge’s goal was disallowed by the VAR who had no business to intervene.

That's my point in response to Rowls.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:09 pm

Dear PGMOL.
Buy a new screen, go to a lovely paradise island resort to browse the Internet, business class of course.

: a-brown-envelope-containing-2000-cash-in-used-20-notes-2AJ189M.jpg (115.73 KiB) Viewed 5050 times

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:11 pm

Taffy on the wing wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:04 pm
The Forest game?

Yes, as rileybobs said. That was the fault of VAR more than the ref. Admittedly, the ref should have had the backbone to tell VAR where to go but he originally called it correctly onfield

Today it was onfield decisions that cost us.

MT03ALG · Post by **MT03ALG** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:11 pm

bfcjg wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:09 pm
Dear PGMOL.
Buy a new screen, go to a lovely paradise island resort to browse the Internet, business class of course.
a-brown-envelope-containing-2000-cash-in-used-20-notes-2AJ189M.jpg

Attwell's fee from PGMOL today ?

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:12 pm

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:06 pm
Berge’s goal was disallowed by the VAR who had no business to intervene.

It was Foster's goal, assisted by Berge, was it not?

This frustration may have led to the rush of blood by Foster a few minutes later.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:13 pm

Maybe it’s time VK and the club kicked up a stink like Turkey teeth at Liverpool does every game.

gsyclaret · Post by **gsyclaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:15 pm

Superjohnnyfrancis wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:41 pm
Blame everyone apart from the inept sub you brought on

123EasyasBFC · Post by **123EasyasBFC** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:16 pm

Burnley as a club should ask for the VAR audio for both the handball and penalty

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:18 pm

Just watch the refs reaction to Ramsay’s attempted tackle. He allowed play to go on then decided yo give the pen. Clearly his home win bonus got the better of him
People who say sport is not fixed need to take a look at how much is bet on any individual game. The betting is astronomical in pretty much every country in the world. And I can assure you Vegas sports books don’t lose. So what’s the easiest way to fix a game ? Bet you can’t guess

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:18 pm

Goody1975 wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:07 pm
This where I disagree, he denied a clear goalscoring opportunity and even though Foster got a shot away he was only able to swing a boot at it rather than have full control of the situation.

If it was at the other end what do we all think the decision would be?

RVclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:08 pm
I don’t agree with your view on the handball only being a free kick and not being a clear goal scoring opportunity. The way the ball was bouncing, without Carlos’ deliberate action of handball, Foster had the running power and strength to force a clear goal scoring opportunity. As it happened, he has to take it at a very awkward angle. It’s a red every day (Mike Dean said the same on SSN).

I’ll watch again later, but it seemed to me that the defender was always between Foster and the goal, so whilst it was a goalscoring opportunity it wasn’t a clear goalscoring opportunity. I also don’t think it was a deliberate action, his arm was moving in a normal running action.

Free kick every day of the week but not a red card for me. And Mike Dean’s opinion has less relevance than Attwell’s or the VAR’s. There will always be people claiming decisions should have gone one way or the other, that doesn’t really prove anything.

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:18 pm

123EasyasBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:16 pm
Burnley as a club should ask for the VAR audio for both the handball and penalty

It definitely was handball and arguably stopped a goal scoring opportunity, but it was outside the box so not sure VAR can get involved?

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:18 pm

Murger wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:13 pm
Maybe it’s time VK and the club kicked up a stink like Turkey teeth at Liverpool does every game.

Arsenal are pretty good at that as well.

We should have kicked off after the Forest game, but after today there really should be a response to it.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:19 pm

Goody1975 wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:12 pm
It was Foster's goal, assisted by Berge, was it not?

This frustration may have led to the rush of blood by Foster a few minutes later.

Yes you’re quite right.

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:20 pm

ClaretAL wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:18 pm
It definitely was handball and arguably stopped a goal scoring opportunity, but it was outside the box so not sure VAR can get involved?

You answered that yourself, yes they can due to it denying a goalscoring opportunity (red card offence).