Staring into the abyss, with some optimism…

[jdrobbo]

I always look for a positive in any conversation relating to BFC and right now, it’d be very easy to throw the towel in on the season.

I started supporting Burnley in 1992…a good season to start, albeit with a low bar. Ever since then, the trend has very much been an upward trajectory, but more, every season has gone to the wire and with the exception of perhaps one (our 28 point second half of the season in Dwight’s debut season), it has rarely felt like this at the halfway stage: cut adrift.

That said, and here’s the paradox, or so to speak…whilst my expectation now is that we’re going to go down, with eighteen games to go, I see a side before my eyes that is getting better and better with every game. In some respects, I’m enjoying the evolution, whilst also acknowledging that I feel mistakes were made (a few too many summer signings, not investing enough in the defence, and not building around last season’s title winning side more).

We’re not Premier League standard (yet) and the league table doesn’t lie, but there are green shoots of some really good things developing. I might be getting ahead of myself, but I do envisage a second half to the season that will, hopefully aided by a few January signings, eclipse our opening 20 game total. I can see a scenario where we possibly get relegated after having ‘established’ ourselves at Premier League level.

So how do we go about trying to enjoy the rest of the season, when the outlook in the short term, doesn’t look too great?

Or do we dare to dream? Regardless, I sincerely hope that we can manage to keep hold of a good number of our exciting signings, even if one of two have to be moved on under our moneyball model.

Roll on Luton! And here’s to the most wonderful second half of a season that’s possibly imaginable.

UTC

[boatshed bill]

Love it JDR

[Rowls]

Yes, amongst the anger today is a feeling that there are small springs of green hope.

We would need a lot of good fortune if we were to stay up though: Foster needs to stay fit and in form.
Our defences needs to get organised and to start marking people.

But who knows?

Since weve gone 442 and put Berge in the heart of midfield we haven't been as bad as we were in the opening 2 months.

Hope springs eternal.

[Bosscat]

With you JDR

[jdrobbo]

So how do we face the next FIVE months?

[bfcjg]

So how do we face the next FIVE months?

For me it will be beers with family and friends before the game, lots of singing and support, encouraging the players especially those who are scapegoats, hoping VK learns from his mistakes, comparing now to the awful rubbish I have witnessed in past times and just trying to enjoy the ride,hopefully with a couple of signings.
UTC.

[ksrclaret]

Since the Everton game, I too have been struggling with the idea that the season is all but over for us in December. The Fulham win gave me some renewed hope, but seeing Forest win the previous two whilst we’ve lost them both has snatched it away again.

I’m angry that the club employed a strategy that put the development of young players above the need for immediate results to retain PL status. Massive mistakes were made and seemingly nobody at the club were able to recognise what sort of squad was needed to properly compete.

Nevertheless, we’ve got 5 months now where only a miracle will see us survive. As a teacher, I always reprimand myself when I catch myself wishing my life away for the next holiday. I’m going to have to do the same now, and not wish my life away in anticipation of the next season starting where we’ll have something to play for again. There are signs that the team are learning and hopefully that continues.

[BurnleyFC]

Some players are starting to come good.

The big worry is that they’ll be off in the summer when we drop and the rebuild has to start all over again.

[Goliath]

I always look for a positive in any conversation relating to BFC and right now, it’d be very easy to throw the towel in on the season.

I started supporting Burnley in 1992…a good season to start, albeit with a low bar. Ever since then, the trend has very much been an upward trajectory, but more, every season has gone to the wire and with the exception of perhaps one (our 28 point second half of the season in Dwight’s debut season), it has rarely felt like this at the halfway stage: cut adrift.

That said, and here’s the paradox, or so to speak…whilst my expectation now is that we’re going to go down, with eighteen games to go, I see a side before my eyes that is getting better and better with every game. In some respects, I’m enjoying the evolution, whilst also acknowledging that I feel mistakes were made (a few too many summer signings and not building around last season’s title winning side more).

We’re not Premier League standard (yet) and the league table doesn’t lie, but there are green shoots of some really good things developing. I might be getting ahead of myself, but I do envisage a second half to the season that will, hopefully aided by a few January signings, eclipse our opening 20 game total. I can see a scenario where we possibly get relegated after having ‘established’ ourselves at Premier League level.

So how do we go about trying to enjoy the rest of the season, when the outlook in the short term, doesn’t look too great?

Or do we dare to dream? Regardless, I sincerely hope that we can manage to keep hold of a good number of our exciting signings, even if one of two have to be moved on under our moneyball model.

Roll on Luton! And here’s to the most wonderful second half of a season that’s possibly imaginable.

UTC

Agreed. There's been real progression over the course of the season. The frustrating thing is we are close to being a good side, we just have a few weak links that are stopping us from going to the next step which is a shame and its unlikely we will be able to sign much in Jan, so we may never see the full potential of this team.

[bfcjg]

Also hoping the million pounds plus we have spent will start to really materialise on the pitch.

[Kilson810]

The greenest of our shoots will be sold in the summer and then we are back to square one building yet another new team.

[KRBFC]

The greenest of our shoots will be sold in the summer and then we are back to square one building yet another new team.

Not quite because we have a huge squad now, we must have 30 first team players (when you include those out on loan like Twine, Weghorst, McNally, Dara, Bastien and Mellon)

We might lose 5 or so but we’ve quite a lot of talent in reserve especially at Championship level. We could lose JBL, JBG, Odobert and Koleosho, we’d still have Zaroury Churlinov Ramsey Benson Twine Dara Redmond Tresor.

If we lose Beyer and McNally we still have Ekdal, Dara, Delcroix and Al Dakhil.

The only real position we’d be short on is if Jay and Foster went we’d need a new starting striker and a back up to go with Obafemi and hopefully Mellon.

[Kilson810]

Not quite because we have a huge squad now, we must have 30 first team players (when you include those out on loan like Twine, Weghorst, McNally, Dara, Bastien and Mellon)

We might lose 5 or so but we’ve quite a lot of talent in reserve especially at Championship level. We could lose JBL, JBG, Odobert and Koleosho, we’d still have Zaroury Churlinov Ramsey Benson Twine Dara Redmond Tresor.

If we lose Beyer and McNally we still have Ekdal, Dara, Delcroix and Al Dakhil.

The only real position we’d be short on is if Jay and Foster went we’d need a new starting striker and a back up to go with Obafemi and hopefully Mellon.

I like McNally (can't believe we are watching someone like Delcroix pass the ball to the opposition repeatedly whilst he is out on loan in fact) and let's see about Mellon, he looks promising but league 2 to championship is a massive jump.

Weghorst never plays for us again, Twine isn't even starting for Hull, Bastien and Churlinov couldn't get more than 5 mins last season and Dara doesn't even start for St Johnstone.

I think you can add Amdouni, Tresor and brownhill to the list of players we lose, potentially Benson and zaroury as well (but who knows what is happening with them).

[Jakubclaret]

Good post you can respect the light & positivity but equally it should also be respected that some people can only see doom & darkness regarding the future.

[Holtyclaret]

Weghorst never plays for us again, Twine isn't even starting for Hull, Bastien and Churlinov couldn't get more than 5 mins last season and Dara doesn't even start for St Johnstone.

These are exactly the players we want to leave (decent but not right standard) with cork and jay (after great service). After that there needn’t be a fire sale like last time.

Couple will be sold and a couple may be loaned for a year.

We’ve purposely signed young and talented on long contracts for a reason, they’re here to learn and develop until they hit their ceiling values, none will go cheap.

……. If we’re relegated (which looks likely). If we’re not it’s a different conversation but the first to leave will still be the same names.

[Kilson810]

These are exactly the players we want to leave (decent but not right standard) with cork and jay (after great service). After that there needn’t be a fire sale like last time.

Couple will be sold and a couple may be loaned for a year.

We’ve purposely signed young and talented on long contracts for a reason, they’re here to learn and develop until they hit their ceiling values, none will go cheap.

……. If we’re relegated (which looks likely). If we’re not it’s a different conversation but the first to leave will still be the same names.

Oh I agree, get rid of all of them. They offer little return for their wages.

I do disagree about the fire sale though, although I don't think we necessarily need to sell, we know that if we are offered a decent price then Pace will sell and that isn't to mention if players don't want to drop down a league. Hopefully we have relegation wage clauses or else there is a fire sale for sure.

The original point was that I think we will lose our greenest shoots in the summer, so we are going to have to rebuild the squad next season, yet again.

[Bin Ont Turf]

You're correct JD there are green shoots and that's why the majority of match going fans are still well onside with this team and manager.

As long as we carry on having a go and showing a bit of fight, then there's no reason not to keep on backing them.

[jdrobbo]

Good post you can respect the light & positivity but equally it should also be respected that some people can only see doom & darkness regarding the future.

Of course. It’s an unbelievably tough grind at present.

[claretgimmer]

This was I believe a three year plan and we`re only two years into it so personally I think as Holtyclaret says the older end and fringe players will be moved on, there will be enough players in those retained to have championship experience, possibly one or two maybe sold if the right offers come in but also a year in the championship (possibly) with a smaller squad would give the players a chance to gel without the pressure of the prem and hopefully if promoted go back to the prem better prepared and hopefully a more settled team for what`s to come knowing what will be expected, their values may actually increase as part of a successful championship team rather than a relegated prem team. UTC

[Nonayforever]

How do we enjoy the rest of the season ?
Very good question.

Thinking about it , there are 3 different viewpoints of seeing out the remainder of the games.
Obviously the OP was talking about the fans point of view.
AP will have his view and no doubt VK will have his hopes and thoughts.
From a fans point of view, we want to see a few wins, a glimmer of hope and more great performances from the likes of Lyle and Odobert. We need a hero.
Haven't got a clue on AP's second half of season thoughts, but I think VKs substitution of Amdouni for Ramsey gave us an insight into how he thinks.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but with the game at 2-2, do you play for a draw, go for the win ?
Bringing on Ramsey was one for VK not the team.

Hope we go down fighting.

[Holtyclaret]

Oh I agree, get rid of all of them. They offer little return for their wages.

I do disagree about the fire sale though, although I don't think we necessarily need to sell, we know that if we are offered a decent price then Pace will sell and that isn't to mention if players don't want to drop down a league. Hopefully we have relegation wage clauses or else there is a fire sale for sure.

The original point was that I think we will lose our greenest shoots in the summer, so we are going to have to rebuild the squad next season, yet again.

Not rebuild as squad will largely remain. The first eleven will certainly change but it’s a wholly different relegation we’re facing than last time, we’re building something, not starting from scratch and there isn’t the immediate financial necessity to sell most of our starlets.

All our players have a price but none will go cheap.

[Nonayforever]

Realised that the game stood at 2 - 1 when Ramsey came on.
Which makes the substitution more understandable , but we were being pummelled at the time.

[Jakubclaret]

Not rebuild as squad will largely remain. The first eleven will certainly change but it’s a wholly different relegation we’re facing than last time, we’re building something, not starting from scratch and there isn’t the immediate financial necessity to sell most of our starlets.

All our players have a price but none will go cheap.

You can't say that with certainty because you don't know the individual player contractual conditions. Certain release clauses might come to light we don't even know about.

[NewClaret]

Not quite because we have a huge squad now, we must have 30 first team players (when you include those out on loan like Twine, Weghorst, McNally, Dara, Bastien and Mellon)

We might lose 5 or so but we’ve quite a lot of talent in reserve especially at Championship level. We could lose JBL, JBG, Odobert and Koleosho, we’d still have Zaroury Churlinov Ramsey Benson Twine Dara Redmond Tresor.

If we lose Beyer and McNally we still have Ekdal, Dara, Delcroix and Al Dakhil.

The only real position we’d be short on is if Jay and Foster went we’d need a new starting striker and a back up to go with Obafemi and hopefully Mellon.

Very good post and spot on.

I’ve just read that our wage bill according to Sportex is £35m. With many of the highest earners - Jay, JBG, Cork, Charlie OOC in the summer. Therefore, feasibly, you could knock a good chunk of that off. IF that’s true it’s very feasible that we retain them all next year in the championship.

Some we may need to accept offers for, but having only signed them last year that will only be if very big offers come in which will benefit us

This year I don’t think we have a big relegation debt repayment to consider, and certainly not a massive squad rebuild. We’d hit the ground running much better than we did last season.

Fears of a fire sale are well overplayed, I think.

[NewClaret]

Good post you can respect the light & positivity but equally it should also be respected that some people can only see doom & darkness regarding the future.

I imagine they’re the ones that see doom and darkness in their general lives and are natural pessimists. Which is fine, I just don’t see the need to cloud a positive thread with pessimism - there’s loads of others available for that (nearly every other one, in fact).

[NewClaret]

For me it will be beers with family and friends before the game, lots of singing and support, encouraging the players especially those who are scapegoats, hoping VK learns from his mistakes, comparing now to the awful rubbish I have witnessed in past times and just trying to enjoy the ride,hopefully with a couple of signings.
UTC.

Absolutely spot on. This team need and deserve our fullest support more than ever. If we back this young team and manager, stay together as one, they’ll repay us.

Let’s do our bit.

[Jakubclaret]

I imagine they’re the ones that see doom and darkness in their general lives and are natural pessimists. Which is fine, I just don’t see the need to cloud a positive thread with pessimism - there’s loads of others available for that (nearly every other one, in fact).

I did say that I respected the post sentiments & on this particular thread I've left negativity well alone & I will continue to do so respectfully observing the threads intentions.

[Ampth7]

Very good post and spot on.

I’ve just read that our wage bill according to Sportex is £35m. With many of the highest earners - Jay, JBG, Cork, Charlie OOC in the summer. Therefore, feasibly, you could knock a good chunk of that off. IF that’s true it’s very feasible that we retain them all next year in the championship.

Some we may need to accept offers for, but having only signed them last year that will only be if very big offers come in which will benefit us

This year I don’t think we have a big relegation debt repayment to consider, and certainly not a massive squad rebuild. We’d hit the ground running much better than we did last season.

Fears of a fire sale are well overplayed, I think.

However, surely one of the lessons from this season is the value of having some experience? Losing Jay, JBG, Cork, Chaz etc would need to be carefully replaced with a few leaders with experience?

[Goliath]

I wouldnt want to lose Cork regardless of what division we are in. He could be vital next season as one of the last remaining bits of experience in the changing room and he is the type of personality i would hope we can keep in a coaching position when hes finished playing.

[NewClaret]

I always look for a positive in any conversation relating to BFC and right now, it’d be very easy to throw the towel in on the season.

I started supporting Burnley in 1992…a good season to start, albeit with a low bar. Ever since then, the trend has very much been an upward trajectory, but more, every season has gone to the wire and with the exception of perhaps one (our 28 point second half of the season in Dwight’s debut season), it has rarely felt like this at the halfway stage: cut adrift.

That said, and here’s the paradox, or so to speak…whilst my expectation now is that we’re going to go down, with eighteen games to go, I see a side before my eyes that is getting better and better with every game. In some respects, I’m enjoying the evolution, whilst also acknowledging that I feel mistakes were made (a few too many summer signings, not investing enough in the defence, and not building around last season’s title winning side more).

We’re not Premier League standard (yet) and the league table doesn’t lie, but there are green shoots of some really good things developing. I might be getting ahead of myself, but I do envisage a second half to the season that will, hopefully aided by a few January signings, eclipse our opening 20 game total. I can see a scenario where we possibly get relegated after having ‘established’ ourselves at Premier League level.

So how do we go about trying to enjoy the rest of the season, when the outlook in the short term, doesn’t look too great?

Or do we dare to dream? Regardless, I sincerely hope that we can manage to keep hold of a good number of our exciting signings, even if one of two have to be moved on under our moneyball model.

Roll on Luton! And here’s to the most wonderful second half of a season that’s possibly imaginable.

UTC

John, I couldn’t agree more (apart from one point).

I’ve been saying for a while to my son that the annoying thing about this year will be that in the end we’ll look a very decent PL team but it’ll be too late.

We’re down. There will be no miracles now unless Everton go in to Admin and even then I struggle to see it.

Where to lay blame? I think it’ll be a mixture of:

- A little too much youth in our summer signings & not enough experience, noting I don’t think experience is easy to find, attract or afford.

- The time needed to bed these in.

- Some bad luck with injuries/illness and suspensions in key games (Foster, Beyer, Koleosho, etc).

- Some pretty terrible luck and bad VAR decisions.

I don’t think failing to build aroun last years team was the reason. As I point out constantly, 3 of last years regulars were loanees, 2 of whom went for £20m and the third didn’t want to come. I’d say only Muric and Benson were regular starters in last years team, one has been injured. Zaroury possibly but I think he was poor post WC and also when he’s come on this year.

I find the constant “who can we catch” threads really tiresome because I think we’re down and there’s little point dwelling on it. But I’ll still enjoy the rest of the season watching this team and young players develop.

Thats what it all needs to be about now - giving them all the experience we can, making them better and better for next year. And us backing them to the hilt as they’ll repay us.

[NewClaret]

However, surely one of the lessons from this season is the value of having some experience? Losing Jay, JBG, Cork, Chaz etc would need to be carefully replaced with a few leaders with experience?

I think you can probably get away with less experience in the champ more than the prem, but yes I agree it’s something we need to retain.

[Vegas Claret]

spot on JD

[Taffy on the wing]

You can't say that with certainty because you don't know the individual player contractual conditions. Certain release clauses might come to light we don't even know about.

“Always look on the bright side of life “
Repeat after me ………

[Vegas Claret]

Fears of a fire sale are well overplayed, I think.

we have loads of money, we won't be giving players away this summer

[Holtyclaret]

You can't say that with certainty because you don't know the individual player contractual conditions. Certain release clauses might come to light we don't even know about.

None of us can really say anything with absolute certainty as we’re not privy to all the facts etc..

Some will leave, some will be loaned for a year but most will remain. They’ll also be a natural cull each year of those not quite up to the standard.

In general terms we’ve no need to be bullied on price, bit like Southampton last summer.

[Colburn_Claret]

I accepted relegation after the Chelsea game, but it's the hope that kills you.
We bought some great players that still need moulding into a great team, but the signs are there.
Just enjoy the transition and cheer them to the rafters.

[yosserhughes]

Great thread JD.

UTC

[leelad]

Good post JD.
I try and look at the Claret glass as being half full instead of empty and that has been tough to do that of late. Our chances of PL survival are remote now. I agree that some of the team are starting to improve and show the early signs of becoming PL players, but at the end of the day I can see a potential relegation meaning that VK will again choose to rebuild the squad and again we will be looking at additions coming in during the Summer.
For the here and now and with January on the horizon, what would get me optimistic about the remaining months of the season is that we look to buy or build the squad around proven PL experienced players. Our Summer transfer strategy was lacking in this area and yes I know we will be paying over the odds to look at buying these type of players in January and in the summer. But that's we need, a spine running through the squad of players who have been there and done it in the prem and can bring the younger players in our squad further on. We need leaders on the pitch, we had some of these with SD at the helm. We have flair players, but too many of them. Start trimming the fat and work out VK who is your best 11 instead of chopping and changing. I'm not expecting us to come straight back up should we get relegated but we need a team in this league with that mix of experience and youth for me if I'm honest. I've rambled there, but hopefully some of that makes sense! UTC.

[Sproggy]

I’m not sure Kompany’s here to build a new team every season. I’d like to think that talk of a fire sale is well wide of the mark.

[Jakubclaret]

None of us can really say anything with absolute certainty as we’re not privy to all the facts etc..

Some will leave, some will be loaned for a year but most will remain. They’ll also be a natural cull each year of those not quite up to the standard.

In general terms we’ve no need to be bullied on price, bit like Southampton last summer.

It never stopped you.

[NewClaret]

we have loads of money, we won't be giving players away this summer

I REALLY hope you’re right Vegas.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I REALLY hope you’re right Vegas.

The thing Vegas doesn’t consider is will the players want championship football.

That’s a different kettle of fish

[thehistorylecturer58]

we have loads of money, we won't be giving players away this summer

'Loads of money'

Time will tell on that one ..

[RVclaret]

I highly doubt we have ‘loads of money’ while also highly doubting we absolutely need a fire sale of players and complete squad rebuild. As ever, the answer is probably somewhere in the middle.

[thehistorylecturer58]

I highly doubt we have ‘loads of money’ while also highly doubting we absolutely need a fire sale of players and complete squad rebuild. As ever, the answer is probably somewhere in the middle.

I would imagine so

[Gordaleman]

One thing we have to look forward to next season is hopefully the lack of VAR. (Unless it's brought into the Championship.)

No multiple different versions of handball or waiting five minutes to determine if a fingernail was offside before being able to celebrate a goal.

Can't wait.

[It Is What It Is]

Apart from us not in a winning form, all our relegation rivals are picking up good results (except Blades) and the gap is getting bigger and wider.
Played some good soccer yesterday and the squad is gelling well at last. Foster has to stay injury free for our survival.
All is not lost at all...19 games to go yet....let's hope it's a very very Happy New Year for club.

[brexit]

If 35 points keeps us up 8 wins will do it. Looking at how well the team is playing and especially fosters form it is possible. I am looking forward to the rollercoaster ride.

[Rileybobs]

we have loads of money, we won't be giving players away this summer

We have loads of money? What are you basing this on?

[MT03ALG]

I always predict the remaining 19 results at the half way stage. I have us to finish on 45 points but admit to being slightly optimistic
However, after the result yesterday, when I predicted a draw, my total has been reduced to 44 points