Fosters Improvement

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Has someone hacked your account?

Or is it a new year resolution to say nice things about our players

I speak what I think, I don’t do group think and I don’t come on here to blow smoke up peoples backsides

[boatshed bill]

Played really well, so unlucky with the offside and forced the handball which should have seen us 10 v 10 for the rest of the game.

[bfcmik]

That’s true but I’d wager the outcome if you had a poor man & a rich man with the same mental health issue who’d end up better off. Affording the best psychiatrist & care compared to somebody who’s on a NHS waiting list.

But I'll bet the difference between outcomes for a rich guy and a very rich guy are not much different. I can't see that Foster wouldn't be able to afford, even if BFC didn't pay for it, the best possible psychiatrist and care even on his Burnley wages. So a pay rise would make no difference!

[Jakubclaret]

But I'll bet the difference between outcomes for a rich guy and a very rich guy are not much different. I can't see that Foster wouldn't be able to afford, even if BFC didn't pay for it, the best possible psychiatrist and care even on his Burnley wages. So a pay rise would make no difference!

It's academic because we don't have 2 case by case examples for comparisons. Mental health is very complex individual to individual & often misunderstood. I never said a pay rise would make the difference in fosters case. Smoothing the bumps over meant at some point that extra money would come in handy regardless of his health. There's a possibility backed up by evidence that in fosters case with his age & likely support network he won't be plagued with the condition all his life. It might come & go or it might disappear forever.

[Darnhill Claret]

Think anyone would need a lot, lot more than 2 cases for any comparisons, for any conclusions to be drawn about anything at all.

[Jakubclaret]

Think anyone would need a lot, lot more than 2 cases for any comparisons, for any conclusions to be drawn about anything at all.

Generally speaking it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out if you've got 2 people, 1 loaded & 1 without a penny to scratch his arse with the general prognosis. Again generally speaking.

[Darnhill Claret]

OK, so which of your two categories that you have beautifully outlined above, would you put Lyle in. Unlikely to be the second one. So closer to the first category then. By your own 'general prognosis', that makes bfcmik pretty much spot on, I would say.

[spt_claret]

His improvement's been fantastic to watch. We're a different team with him, we actually look like we might score and put up a fight.

Pace isn’t about lining his pockets.

Ex Lehman Bros and Citibank executive who bought Burnley with the club's own money and loans (that are being paid off with the club's income & other owns, not his own money), who shows stunning levels of opacity around the financial structure and associated accounts, whose entire strategy revolves around rapid player flipping at profit and has been happily been selling away fans tickets in the home end & putting corporate hospitality attendees' considerations several tiers above the majority of fans' matchday experience in terms of priority.
But because he had a documentary that talked about how he likes his faith & family, and he shakes a few hands in the Fanzone, people think he isn't about lining his pockets.
Give me strength.

[Quicknick]

If only we can keep him next season, he could go on to be regarded as our best striker ever.

[warksclaret]

If only we can keep him next season, he could go on to be regarded as our best striker ever.

Agreed, particularly as the standards of the PL this year I feel are the highest ever in its history-and Foster is starring in it and being noticed by the world's sports media

[Jakubclaret]

OK, so which of your two categories that you have beautifully outlined above, would you put Lyle in. Unlikely to be the second one. So closer to the first category then. By your own 'general prognosis', that makes bfcmik pretty much spot on, I would say.

The starting & finishing point for me is that I haven't said that the extra money would 100% improve LFs mental health condition. I can safely rest my case with that fact.

[Darnhill Claret]

OK.

[Cooclaret]

His improvement's been fantastic to watch. We're a different team with him, we actually look like we might score and put up a fight.



Ex Lehman Bros and Citibank executive who bought Burnley with the club's own money and loans (that are being paid off with the club's income & other owns, not his own money), who shows stunning levels of opacity around the financial structure and associated accounts, whose entire strategy revolves around rapid player flipping at profit and has been happily been selling away fans tickets in the home end & putting corporate hospitality attendees' considerations several tiers above the majority of fans' matchday experience in terms of priority.
But because he had a documentary that talked about how he likes his faith & family, and he shakes a few hands in the Fanzone, people think he isn't about lining his pockets.
Give me strength.

Sounds like a lot of prejudice, and not much substance.

When has a player been sold and those funds taken out of the club and into the owners pocket?

[Newcastleclaret93]

Sounds like a lot of prejudice, and not much substance.

When has a player been sold and those funds taken out of the club and into the owners pocket?

Do you really think there not taking money out?

[Cooclaret]

Do you really think there not taking money out?

I think they’re building an asset up so it meets their needs.

Where is the evidence that they’re taking money?

[Cooclaret]

Do you really think there not taking money out?

All I’ve seen is money coming in. Quite a change from previous Chairman.

[Newcastleclaret93]

All I’ve seen is money coming in. Quite a change from previous Chairman.

Time will tell.

Personally I think it’s all going to end very sour with Pace

[claretonthecoast1882]

Time will tell.

Personally I think it’s all going to end very sour with Pace

Not like you to have negative thoughts.

Last season you thought we had more chance of relegation than promotion
Then the division became the worst standard you had ever seen
Now you think we are one of the worst sides ever to be in the Prem
Virtually all the players are garbage
And now it is all going to end very sour

What do you get out of the club ? Everything is ramped up to daft levels of hyperbole with you and it comes across it all makes you miserable, don't you ever consider just giving up and watching a different club ?

[spt_claret]

All I’ve seen is money coming in. Quite a change from previous Chairman.

They transferred millions out of the club via the purchase, and via the paying off of loans to fund the purchase. It was a leveraged buyout, Pace paid off Garlick with the club's money - Garlick took the money but Pace did the deal he can't be absolved of responsibility when ultimately nobody made him buy the club nor buy it under those terms, fact is he chose to do a deal that bled money out of Burnley FC so that he could then own it.
They receive a several million consultancy fee I believe as per one of the few published accounts. That's just for starters.
And every single investor they have is in it for profit. How do you expect them to generate profits for themselves, unless they're taking the money from the club, that the club produces, via their investment? They're not running it as fans. They'll be getting a big cut, and when they judge it no longer profitable do you really expect them to just transfer it to a custodian, or to sell off to the first/biggest buyer they can flip a profit on and take what they can get on the way out? They're not fans. I don't begrudge people for wanting to make money on an investment, I'm just saying it's an absurd notion that Pace, again, an ex Wall Street guy who bought the club with the club's money, not his own, isn't in this to make money or is the type to incur his own personal financial risks. And that comes with a certain mentality that means that the club's best interests, will not always align with that profit motive.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Not like you to have negative thoughts.

Last season you thought we had more chance of relegation than promotion
Then the division became the worst standard you had ever seen
Now you think we are one of the worst sides ever to be in the Prem
Virtually all the players are garbage
And now it is all going to end very sour

What do you get out of the club ? Everything is ramped up to daft levels of hyperbole with you and it comes across it all makes you miserable, don't you ever consider just giving up and watching a different club ?

Again misquoting this first point.

2nd point was a comment in hindsight which I think we all agree with.

3rd point is a fact.

4th point where have I said all the players are garbage.

5th point yes that’s my opinion on how things will end with Pace

[claretonthecoast1882]

Again misquoting this first point.

2nd point was a comment in hindsight which I think we all agree with.

3rd point is a fact.

4th point where have I said all the players are garbage.

5th point yes that’s my opinion on how things will end with Pace

No misquoting at all, you said we were more likely to go down than up you spent the summer saying so.

Not all agree with no, but then not all want to play down anything achieved by the club.

Again I ask, what do you get from the club ?

[Newcastleclaret93]

No misquoting at all, you said we were more likely to go down than up you spent the summer saying so.

Not all agree with no, but then not all want to play down anything achieved by the club.

Again I ask, what do you get from the club ?

What do you mean I support them? It’s not a choice.

I just don’t go along with absolutely everything the club churn out.

Why can’t you just accept that is my opinion of how things will end?

[claretonthecoast1882]

What do you mean I support them? It’s not a choice.

I just don’t go along with absolutely everything the club churn out.

Why can’t you just accept that is my opinion of how things will end?

Don't imagine anyone goes along with everything the club churns out, but I imagine there are far more out there with a different view to what supporting means.

[CoolClaret]

Sounds like a lot of prejudice, and not much substance.

When has a player been sold and those funds taken out of the club and into the owners pocket?

God you’re naive mate.

Why do you think they’re here? Just for the fun of it?

A healthy dividend every year for a start - not to mention £90 mill ish taken out with the nature of the takeover.

All I’ve seen is money coming in. Quite a change from previous Chairman.

Really?

See that state of the art training ground that we have?… wonder who bought that..

[claretonthecoast1882]

God you’re naive mate.

Why do you think they’re here? Just for the fun of it?

A healthy dividend every year for a start - not to mention £90 mill ish taken out with the nature of the takeover.


Really?

See that state of the art training ground that we have?… wonder who bought that..

Why do you think anyone is involved in football ?

I wouldn't be rushing to call people naive if you think these owners are different from any other club owner who doesn't have a country funding their spending.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Don't imagine anyone goes along with everything the club churns out, but I imagine there are far more out there with a different view to what supporting means.

People can have varying views on there football club.

Not everyone has to agree with an approach. I personally think we are heading down a bad route and it will end sour with Pace.

But ultimately it’s completely out of all our control and we just have to hope they have good intentions

[Jakubclaret]

"we just have to hope they have good intentions" along the same sort of lines a turkey might have to a Xmas invitation from a poultry slaughterer.

[Cooclaret]

God you’re naive mate.

Why do you think they’re here? Just for the fun of it?

A healthy dividend every year for a start - not to mention £90 mill ish taken out with the nature of the takeover.


Really?

See that state of the art training ground that we have?… wonder who bought that..

Thank goodness you’re here!

Naive; still no evidence that the owners have taken money out of the club via player sales. Can you provide any?

Or are you trading off past hurts about the manner in which the club was bought?

The training ground is a good piece of business, but that’s investment in an asset. The previous owners, imo, and as was their right, lined their own pockets rather than give Dyche the money he needed to refresh/build the aging squad.

[Holtyclaret]

Our plan is to constantly 'rinse and repeat' in terms of buying cheap and selling on at peak value regardless of what level we are at. The wingers might stay because you could argue they arent at peak value, Foster is more risky

Fosters peak value is probably 4-5 years off. His Burnley peak value will be at the end of the season after next when he’s scored 15-20 goals for us.

There’s no rush for us to sell any of our players this time round. Completely different scenario than the previous relegation.

That said all our players will have price tags, most of which won’t be reached for 18 months - 3 years. Then the carousel of players in and out will commence, like Brighton now I guess.

[Goliath]

Fosters peak value is probably 4-5 years off. His Burnley peak value will be at the end of the season after next when he’s scored 15-20 goals for us.

There’s no rush for us to sell any of our players this time round. Completely different scenario than the previous relegation.

That said all our players will have price tags, most of which won’t be reached for 18 months - 3 years. Then the carousel of players in and out will commence, like Brighton now I guess.

Of course theres the chance he could go up in value with us further but say we go down and his value is £40 million. Do we say no and keep hold of him hoping we can go back up and get his value up to £60 mill? Bearing in mind the issues that hes had, or the potential of a severe injury, its probably more prudent to take the £40 mill and reinvest it.

[CoolClaret]

Why do you think anyone is involved in football ?

I wouldn't be rushing to call people naive if you think these owners are different from any other club owner who doesn't have a country funding their spending.

That’s half my point?

It’s also the American model of ownership that I’m not really
happy with. See Glazers at United.

Commercial interests #1 priority at all times.

[Holtyclaret]

His improvement's been fantastic to watch. We're a different team with him, we actually look like we might score and put up a fight.



Ex Lehman Bros and Citibank executive who bought Burnley with the club's own money and loans (that are being paid off with the club's income & other owns, not his own money), who shows stunning levels of opacity around the financial structure and associated accounts, whose entire strategy revolves around rapid player flipping at profit and has been happily been selling away fans tickets in the home end & putting corporate hospitality attendees' considerations several tiers above the majority of fans' matchday experience in terms of priority.
But because he had a documentary that talked about how he likes his faith & family, and he shakes a few hands in the Fanzone, people think he isn't about lining his pockets.
Give me strength.

I think pace and group of investors are more worried about where the club is in 3-5 years time. If successful and we become a settled prem side by then, that’s where the real money will be made. Short term it’s all about stocking the shelves with young talent, developing them on for future profit and morphing the squad into one that can achieve that settled in prem status.

It took Brighton a few years and a lot of finance to get the system going but now flip players for fun in a self-financing way.

[Holtyclaret]

Of course theres the chance he could go up in value with us further but say we go down and his value is £40 million. Do we say no and keep hold of him hoping we can go back up and get his value up to £60 mill? Bearing in mind the issues that hes had, or the potential of a severe injury, its probably more prudent to take the £40 mill and reinvest it.

Nobody will be bidding £40m this year, if they did I’d snap their hand off.

[Colburn_Claret]

His teal strength is his strength. We have a lot of fast players who can easily be knocked over with a touch. When Lyle is on the charge he's like a train on rails.

[Goliath]

Nobody will be bidding £40m this year, if they did I’d snap their hand off.

Obviously its dependent on his form to the end of the season. Hes got 4 in 11 and 3 assists, so if for example he gets to 10 goals and 5 assists in his first prem season, I think 40m would have to be the bare minimum.

Every club in the world wants a striker with those attributes that he has shown so far. They dont come around very often.
I think theres a good chance that Brentford come in for him for one if they sell Toney, Bournemouth also with Solanke.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Of course theres the chance he could go up in value with us further but say we go down and his value is £40 million. Do we say no and keep hold of him hoping we can go back up and get his value up to £60 mill? Bearing in mind the issues that hes had, or the potential of a severe injury, its probably more prudent to take the £40 mill and reinvest it.

I’m a massive fan of Foster but no one is paying that kind of money for him not now anyway.

[Jakubclaret]

I think far too many people (seemingly) if this thread is anything to go by are getting carried away with crazy valuations on the back of a handful of decent performances. Sure if he maintains the form & goals we are seeing then the valuations might indeed become reality, other clubs will be taking notice & waiting to see if it's maintained.

[Holtyclaret]

Obviously its dependent on his form to the end of the season. Hes got 4 in 11 and 3 assists, so if for example he gets to 10 goals and 5 assists in his first prem season, I think 40m would have to be the bare minimum.

Every club in the world wants a striker with those attributes that he has shown so far. They dont come around very often.
I think theres a good chance that Brentford come in for him for one if they sell Toney, Bournemouth also with Solanke.

I see what you mean but just think it’s a bit early to be thinking of those figures. I can see him being with us a while yet.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Obviously its dependent on his form to the end of the season. Hes got 4 in 11 and 3 assists, so if for example he gets to 10 goals and 5 assists in his first prem season, I think 40m would have to be the bare minimum.

Every club in the world wants a striker with those attributes that he has shown so far. They dont come around very often.
I think theres a good chance that Brentford come in for him for one if they sell Toney, Bournemouth also with Solanke.

From what I can tell no striker in premier league history has sold for that kind of money after only 10 goals in a season.

His price if he were to achieve that is probably around 30m mark.

I think Joao Pedro is a good barometer for his price

[bumba]

The club and VK have told fans the club's model is to buy and sell players so why are fans being so naive in thinking we're going down and keeping everybody?
Koleosho was bought for £3 million if we get offered £15 million or above I'd say it's bye bye.
Odabert was £10 million if we get £20 million it'll be accepted.
All our players are available to be sold as long as we make a good profit on them then we buy the next young player we think we can make a profit on.
Going down refusing all offers and building on what we have isn't the plan, how more open can the club be than doing a TV documentary that tells fans this?

[Whitgord]

Oh wouldn’t it be great if we could stay up!!

[Goliath]

I see what you mean but just think it’s a bit early to be thinking of those figures. I can see him being with us a while yet.

I suppose that comes back to value and risk vs reward. Personally with the attributes he has and at such a young age I think we should be getting at least 40 mill (this is all dependent of him showing the same form for the rest of the season.

How much did Hjolund go to Man Utd for..about £60 mill wasn't it? Is there a big difference between Fosters record and Hjolunds before joining United?

Also going off our last relegation, Mcneil was 20 mill, Cornet 17.5 mill but probably would have been over 20 if he hadn't got the release clause. I think 40 mill would be fair.

[CoolClaret]

Thank goodness you’re here!

Naive; still no evidence that the owners have taken money out of the club via player sales. Can you provide any?

Or are you trading off past hurts about the manner in which the club was bought?

The training ground is a good piece of business, but that’s investment in an asset. The previous owners, imo, and as was their right, lined their own pockets rather than give Dyche the money he needed to refresh/build the aging squad.

I’ll refer you to spts post and actually - player sales last year absolutely went to paying off loans that they took out in order to takeover control of the club - that’s just one obvious example.

The training ground is more than an asset though - it’s something that doesn’t instantly create money but it’s a long standing investment that has properly set the club up.

When ALK do something that isn’t short-medium term profit incentivised then I may change my mind but I highly doubt I’ll see that happen.

It’s all about increasing revenue streams for them.

The cricketfield end is an obvious one that needs sorting out - a few LEDs for (even more) commercial bombardment doesn’t count

[Goliath]

From what I can tell no striker in premier league history has sold for that kind of money after only 10 goals in a season.

His price if he were to achieve that is probably around 30m mark.

I think Joao Pedro is a good barometer for his price

Andy Carroll?
Ollie Watkins was about £30 mill and he'd never played in the Premier League I dont think

[Cooclaret]

I’ll refer you to spts post and actually - player sales last year absolutely went to paying off loans that they took out in order to takeover control of the club - that’s just one obvious example.

The training ground is more than an asset though - it’s something that doesn’t instantly create money but it’s a long standing investment that has properly set the club up.

When ALK do something that isn’t short-medium term profit incentivised then I may change my mind but I highly doubt I’ll see that happen.

It’s all about increasing revenue streams for them.

The cricketfield end is an obvious one that needs sorting out - a few LEDs for (even more) commercial bombardment doesn’t count

Or, we go relegated and had to use that to make good on budgets.

Paying off a loan is always a good idea.

[spt_claret]

I suppose that comes back to value and risk vs reward. Personally with the attributes he has and at such a young age I think we should be getting at least 40 mill (this is all dependent of him showing the same form for the rest of the season.

How much did Hjolund go to Man Utd for..about £60 mill wasn't it? Is there a big difference between Fosters record and Hjolunds before joining United?

Also going off our last relegation, Mcneil was 20 mill, Cornet 17.5 mill but probably would have been over 20 if he hadn't got the release clause. I think 40 mill would be fair.

Hojlund is younger, bigger (and the trend is moving back towards big strikers to counter the trend towards smaller quicker defenders), had a nearly 1 in 1 record for Denmark, bagge 5 goes in Europe (Europa Conference but still Europe) aged 18, and while his Atalanta record was only 1 in 3, conventional footballing wisdom (rightly or wrongly) says that the Italian league is very hard to score in and much more defensively focused. Hojlund also had the advantage of being branded as a doppelganger of Erling Haaland due to numerous superficial similarities, again might not be based in reality but the branding was in your face.

I love Lyle and he's got tons of great attributes, but he's older and his best record before this season was 1 in 3 in Belgium, a weaker league than Serie A. His pedigree prior to this season was way below Hojlund's, that's why he cost us far less. We'd absolutely turn a profit on him but I'd be shocked if we got £40m, especially as a player's injury record often factors into their valuation and, I'm saying this as someone who has depression himself so knows how cruel and unfair as it is, I'd expect negotiators to look at his depression as a risk factor.

Or, we go relegated and had to use that to make good on budgets.

Paying off a loan is always a good idea.

But it was a loan they took out, to buy the club, because they had no money. So it's money that has gone OUT of the club, in service of THEIR debts, that THEY accrued and loaded onto the club so they could buy it. So again- they factually have taken money out, for various reasons.

[Jakubclaret]

The club and VK have told fans the club's model is to buy and sell players so why are fans being so naive in thinking we're going down and keeping everybody?
Koleosho was bought for £3 million if we get offered £15 million or above I'd say it's bye bye.
Odabert was £10 million if we get £20 million it'll be accepted.
All our players are available to be sold as long as we make a good profit on them then we buy the next young player we think we can make a profit on.
Going down refusing all offers and building on what we have isn't the plan, how more open can the club be than doing a TV documentary that tells fans this?

I agree. The way things are & the way it's set up I don't think the club could dig in & play hardball in terms of negotiating anyway & other clubs know that. It'd be pretty much open season if any of the bigger club did decide to come along & pick the talent off you wouldn't have to use much force or persuasion for us to be receptive to selling.

[CoolClaret]

Or, we go relegated and had to use that to make good on budgets.

Paying off a loan is always a good idea.

Even better to not take one out in the first place id say.

Though we’ve taken plenty of those out under the new lot.

[CoolClaret]

I’d just like to add to this thread the minor fact that we haven’t actually sold ANYONE that we have purchased under ALK for a profit yet - a small fact that keeps getting overlooked.

[Jakubclaret]

I’d just like to add to this thread the minor fact that we haven’t actually sold ANYONE that we have purchased under ALK for a profit yet - a small fact that keeps getting overlooked.

Only because the premature time circumstances haven't allowed full player development or nobody's offered anything. How many so called bids have been resisted also?