Benson to Southampton

[BurnleyFC]

We’ll have enough outgoings this summer without losing Benson and Zaroury. I’d be more disappointed to see those two go than Ramsey, Amdouni and Tresor, for example. I doubt Berge would want to stay as well although you could argue he will have deserved his move.

I suppose the question is whether the pair of them could be bothered having another crack at the Championship with us after being cast aside so ruthlessly.

[ecc]

Thank you!

Some people honestly seem to think it's exactly like Football Manager. Scout a player who gets 5 star potential rated, check his stats if they're good now, stick him in and watch the numbers go up. I love Football Manager, I play a lot of it, and its scouting database is even used by several pro clubs now because of the sheer number of scouts they have, but it's really not comparable to reality. In Football Manager, a player pretty much stops developing at 24-25. In reality, you get some players don't even peak til around 30. Real life player development is extremely nonstandard and nonlinear.

You're welcome, spt_claret.

Inevitably, my effort has been rescinded. I'll give it another go.


Fair play to you for trying your best to contribute to a debate.

This sentence is absolutely true IMHO and the gist of what you're saying.

"Real life player development is extremely nonstandard and nonlinear."

I'll give you an example of three Serbian strikers:

Mitrovic, Vlahovic and Jovic.

Jovic started slowly at Benfica, exploded at Eintracht and has never made it since going to Real.

Vlahovic, who I really rate, was amazing at Fiorentina but just can't kick on at Juve.

Mitrovic had to wait until his fifth PL season before finally showing his worth.

But then I'm sure I'll now be told "Yeah but it's different with centre-forwards".

[123EasyasBFC]

We’ll have about outgoings this summer without losing Benson and Zaroury. I’d be more disappointed to see those two go than Ramsey, Amdouni and Tresor, for example. I doubt Berge would want to stay as well alright you could argue he will have deserved his move.

I suppose the question is whether the pair of them could be bothered having another crack at the Championship with us after being cast aside so ruthlessly.

Amdouni is one of the most talented players I’ve seen at Burnley, he’s much more of a talent than zaroury and benson in my opinion

[BurnleyFC]

Amdouni is one of the most talented players I’ve seen at Burnley, he’s much more of a talent than zaroury and benson in my opinion

Sorry, but I don’t see it just yet. He’s admittedly been better since Foster has returned but he drifts in and out of games far too much for me.

Hopefully he has a big second half of the season to either keep us up or maximise his sell on value.

[123EasyasBFC]

Sorry, but I don’t see it just yet. He’s admittedly been better since Foster has returned but he drifts in and out of games far too much for me.

Hopefully he has a big second half of the season to either keep us up or maximise his sell on value.

He does drift in and out of games but his touch, close control and his ability to turn with the ball on the move, I think in a team like Brighton he wouldn’t look out of place

[Newcastleclaret93]

Amdouni is one of the most talented players I’ve seen at Burnley, he’s much more of a talent than zaroury and benson in my opinion

I just don’t see it. He just looks like another lightweight lad from Europe that can’t cut it in the premier league.

He would do well in France IMO. Cant ever see him being successful in England.

Amdouni has been my biggest disappointment this season

[BurnleyFC]

He does drift in and out of games but his touch, close control and his ability to turn with the ball on the move, I think in a team like Brighton he wouldn’t look out of place

I was berating him on the Aston Villa match thread for hardly having a touch of the ball in the first half and effectively getting Beyer injured by not contesting a challenge leading up to it. He did come up with a fine finish for our equaliser, though.

[Holtyclaret]

How do you know?

The players will have relegation clauses and potentially big wage deductions in their contracts. There is a decent sized drop in the broadcast revenue received from the PL and the debt is much higher this time around.

Because I think our recent and current income, combined with a parachute payment and other revenues next season would mean a year (or two) in champ can be covered. Beyond that they’ll need to be big changes.

Most of our recent purchases will be being paid by instalments so no massive debt increase.

Squad will need trimming, couple sold, few loaned out and ooc and some fringe players will leave.

No one knows what’s on players contracts but you’d expect they’ll contain provisions for relegation as they all knew they were joining a ‘project’.

We’re building not starting from scratch again.

Only my personal thoughts, only time will tell how things pan out.

[123EasyasBFC]

I just don’t see it. He just looks like another lightweight lad from Europe that can’t cut it in the premier league.

He would do well in France IMO. Cant ever see him being successful in England.

Amdouni has been my biggest disappointment this season

It’s interesting how everyone views it isn’t it, I think he would be one to watch if we stayed up and after having 12 months in premier league but doesn’t look like we will see that, if he didn’t leave he would be far to good for the championship

[Newcastleclaret93]

It’s interesting how everyone views it isn’t it, I think he would be one to watch if we stayed up and after having 12 months in premier league but doesn’t look like we will see that, if he didn’t leave he would be far to good for the championship

I tend to agree about the championship. But I just can’t see it in the prem, with players like foster you always knew he could be relatively successful at prem level because he had the physical attributes.

With Amdouni I just can’t see it, he’s not strong enough or quick enough to be successful at this level. (He could bulk out and maybe continue to develop the physical side as I believe he’s still pretty young)

I am also not sure anyone knows his best position, I don’t think he’s a 9 and I certainly don’t think he’s an 10.

You mentioned Brighton, but where in that team do you see him playing? The old McAllister role?

[123EasyasBFC]

I tend to agree about the championship. But I just can’t see it in the prem, with players like foster you always knew he could be relatively successful at prem level because he had the physical attributes.

With Amdouni I just can’t see it, he’s not strong enough or quick enough to be successful at this level. (He could bulk out and maybe continue to develop the physical side as I believe he’s still pretty young)

I am also not sure anyone knows his best position, I don’t think he’s a 9 and I certainly don’t think he’s an 10.

You mentioned Brighton, but where in that team do you see him playing? The old McAllister role?

I expected him to come in as a 9 based on his record for Basel in Europe and his ability in the air, didn’t envisage him playing the 8/10 role like he has

At Brighton depending on what formation they are playing, either as part of the 2 up top like they do with Pedro and welbeck or behind the striker, I think he’s technical ability is suited to a team who control the ball, there’s been moments in games like most recently against Liverpool when he turned and his shot was terrible but he has the ability to come out with the ball

[ClaretPete001]

Because I think our recent and current income, combined with a parachute payment and other revenues next season would mean a year (or two) in champ can be covered. Beyond that they’ll need to be big changes.

Most of our recent purchases will be being paid by instalments so no massive debt increase.

Squad will need trimming, couple sold, few loaned out and ooc and some fringe players will leave.

No one knows what’s on players contracts but you’d expect they’ll contain provisions for relegation as they all knew they were joining a ‘project’.

We’re building not starting from scratch again.

Only my personal thoughts, only time will tell how things pan out.

You proffer an opinion but do not address the four basic points:

1) The players who can leave will likely be able to do so because there will be relegation clauses both in favour of the club in terms of wages and the players in terms of their ability to leave.

2) The PL payments will reduce substantively straight away.

3) Lenders to the club could have clauses with substantive relegation payments in them...

4) You can't wait for two seasons until the poop hits the fan you have to act to avoid it doing so.

This is what happened last time and unless you know different it is likely to be the case this time.

Once you are relegated you lose control of the situation that's one of the downsides of being relegated.

[spt_claret]

4) You can't wait for two seasons until the poop hits the fan you have to act to avoid it doing so.
.

You can if you work in Wall Street. In fact you can even wait until after it hits the fan if you manage to get someone else to carry the can. In fact you can even make a quick profit on it hitting the fan if you did a Michael Burry and bet on things hitting the fan. Positively encouraged back in the 2000s.

Our new owners come from a world where protective measures against things hitting the fan is completely alien and seen as bad business that risks smaller profit. I don't think they understand the risks or consequences entirely because their industry has never really had to consider them the same.

[Vegas Claret]

You can if you work in Wall Street. In fact you can even wait until after it hits the fan if you manage to get someone else to carry the can. In fact you can even make a quick profit on it hitting the fan if you did a Michael Burry and bet on things hitting the fan. Positively encouraged back in the 2000s.

Our new owners come from a world where protective measures against things hitting the fan is completely alien and seen as bad business that risks smaller profit. I don't think they understand the risks or consequences entirely because their industry has never really had to consider them the same.

Done well to become millionaires, take over a Premier League football club and attract investment, attract the smart guy with the business degree and coaching badges considering they don't understand something. Sorry Spt but whilst I get the idea of your point I think it's fanciful to suggest they don't fully understand what they are doing.

[Vegas Claret]

I'll add our COO has 20 years experience

[spt_claret]

Done well to become millionaires, take over a Premier League football club and attract investment, attract the smart guy with the business degree and coaching badges considering they don't understand something. Sorry Spt but whilst I get the idea of your point I think it's fanciful to suggest they don't fully understand what they are doing.

I'd say you can understand something on a conceptual level without really demonstrating it in practice but perhaps understanding is the wrong word, perhaps I should say lack the inclination or disposition. They may be aware of the risks, but you don't get that far in that world by acting in accordance with those risks, it's an industry & culture that is well documented as disincentivising that kind of caution or consideration, and incentivising much more cut-throat and cavalier practice provided you're not the one holding the bag at the end. They already admitted in the documentary to losing track of budgets and spending more than they had planned or indeed budgeted for last season, making promotion a necessity. The mentality to be a successful Wall Street executive is not one that lends itself to responsible long-term stewardship with pre-emptive contingencies against losses and minimisation of risk.

[Wile E Coyote]

agent

[Vegas Claret]

I'd say you can understand something on a conceptual level without really demonstrating it in practice but perhaps understanding is the wrong word, perhaps I should say lack the inclination or disposition. They may be aware of the risks, but you don't get that far in that world by acting in accordance with those risks, it's an industry & culture that is well documented as disincentivising that kind of caution or consideration, and incentivising much more cut-throat and cavalier practice provided you're not the one holding the bag at the end. They already admitted in the documentary to losing track of budgets and spending more than they had planned or indeed budgeted for last season, making promotion a necessity. The mentality to be a successful Wall Street executive is not one that lends itself to responsible long-term stewardship with pre-emptive contingencies against losses and minimisation of risk.

Given the fact the entire purpose of 'buying' the club is to make money it would seem a mute exercise for them if they don't know what they are doing wouldn't you think ? They aren't playing at it, they know what they are doing (I hope!!!!!!)

[Holtyclaret]

You proffer an opinion but do not address the four basic points:

1) The players who can leave will likely be able to do so because there will be relegation clauses both in favour of the club in terms of wages and the players in terms of their ability to leave.

2) The PL payments will reduce substantively straight away.

3) Lenders to the club could have clauses with substantive relegation payments in them...

4) You can't wait for two seasons until the poop hits the fan you have to act to avoid it doing so.

This is what happened last time and unless you know different it is likely to be the case this time.

Once you are relegated you lose control of the situation that's one of the downsides of being relegated.

Ok we’ll see how it pans out but relegation isn’t the doomsday scenario you’re painting. The risk of relegation won’t be something that will come as any surprise to Pace having sanctioned the youthful signings of last summer and I’m sure therefore it’ll have been planned for.

I think we’ll be fine and we’re in a totally different scenario to our previous relegation where we ended up with no players or management.

[bfcjg]

I hope they better fist of hopefully getting promotion then they have of the catering, otherwise it's going to be a harsh few years.

[Big Vinny K]

I think we’ll be fine and we’re in a totally different scenario to our previous relegation where we ended up with no players or management.

Yes we are…..but not in a good way.
Last time we had brought in the best part of a £100m in transfer fees and this time we will have had a similar amount been spent.

The lack of published accounts or transparency over our current debt levels, outside investment and many other key areas makes it very difficult for me to think why you believe things are going to be fine or as you say even better than the last time we went down

[Jakubclaret]

Ok we’ll see how it pans out but relegation isn’t the doomsday scenario you’re painting. The risk of relegation won’t be something that will come as any surprise to Pace having sanctioned the youthful signings of last summer and I’m sure therefore it’ll have been planned for.

I think we’ll be fine and we’re in a totally different scenario to our previous relegation where we ended up with no players or management.

You assume far too much. The reason we ended up with no management is down to 1 person & we had players but the good 1s wanted out & didn't want to drop down a league. I honestly think had we stayed up it wouldn't have made much of a difference, pope didn't have long left & JT wouldn't extend that went for awhile, maybe mee might have stopped, relegation just accelerated the departures.

[RVclaret]

Yes we are…..but not in a good way.
Last time we had brought in the best part of a £100m in transfer fees and this time we will have had a similar amount been spent.

The lack of published accounts or transparency over our current debt levels, outside investment and many other key areas makes it very difficult for me to think why you believe things are going to be fine or as you say even better than the last time we went down

If we go down the spend this season will probably be around £80m as staying up clauses won’t be met, plus Kompany’s rhetoric around fees not being as big as reported in the media. If this seasons wage bill is around the £60-70m area (my guesstimate is the lower end of that) then we would have positive cash flows of ~£50m, going off a total £135m in PL revenues for the season and factoring in ‘other’ costs. That makes the actual spend seem a tad lower in the sense it’s not ‘way beyond our means’. It’s possible extra investors have put up cash for that extra £30-40m spend on players and of course we don’t know the arrangement there.

There may (or may not) still be £30-35m ‘third party debt’ (Macquarie?) but last time there was £65m to MSD (with half forced to be repaid) and approx £20m (or more) owed to the previous chairman. You would imagine the players contracts should have 40-50% wage cuts (Norwich’s accounts for last season were released a month ago and they had 50%). Given all of that (appreciate it’s not 100% accuracy but it’s at least using some research/educated opinion), I don’t think it’s too unwise to say we’d be in a slightly better position than last time (half a squad, larger debt payments, no young playing assets).

My thoughts at this stage (happy to change my opinion if things change such as when accounts come out) are we’d raise around £30m from sales of fringe players (Twine, McNally, Muric, Weghorst), then one or two of our current first team (Amdouni, Koleosho, Foster, Odobert, Berge).

[Holtyclaret]

You assume far too much. The reason we ended up with no management is down to 1 person & we had players but the good 1s wanted out & didn't want to drop down a league. I honestly think had we stayed up it wouldn't have made much of a difference, pope didn't have long left & JT wouldn't extend that went for awhile, maybe mee might have stopped, relegation just accelerated the departures.

You appear to assume more than me. We can only assume things as we don’t know half the facts. We’re all assuming relegation.

Let’s see how things pan out.

[Holtyclaret]

Yes we are…..but not in a good way.
Last time we had brought in the best part of a £100m in transfer fees and this time we will have had a similar amount been spent.

The lack of published accounts or transparency over our current debt levels, outside investment and many other key areas makes it very difficult for me to think why you believe things are going to be fine or as you say even better than the last time we went down

It’s not rocket science to know we’re in a better position than the last relegation. I’m sure we’ll have increased general revenue considerably and there’s significant finance been generated from minor investors.

But as you say none of us know anything for certain it’s just my gut feeling from what I’ve heard/read.

[Big Vinny K]

If we go down the spend this season will probably be around £80m as staying up clauses won’t be met, plus Kompany’s rhetoric around fees not being as big as reported in the media. If this seasons wage bill is around the £60-70m area (my guesstimate is the lower end of that) then we would have positive cash flows of ~£50m, going off a total £135m in PL revenues for the season and factoring in ‘other’ costs. That makes the actual spend seem a tad lower in the sense it’s not ‘way beyond our means’. It’s possible extra investors have put up cash for that extra £30-40m spend on players and of course we don’t know the arrangement there.

There may (or may not) still be £30-35m ‘third party debt’ (Macquarie?) but last time there was £65m to MSD (with half forced to be repaid) and approx £20m (or more) owed to the previous chairman. You would imagine the players contracts should have 40-50% wage cuts (Norwich’s accounts for last season were released a month ago and they had 50%). Given all of that (appreciate it’s not 100% accuracy but it’s at least using some research/educated opinion), I don’t think it’s too unwise to say we’d be in a slightly better position than last time (half a squad, larger debt payments, no young playing assets).

My thoughts at this stage (happy to change my opinion if things change such as when accounts come out) are we’d raise around £30m from sales of fringe players (Twine, McNally, Muric, Weghorst), then one or two of our current first team (Amdouni, Koleosho, Foster, Odobert, Berge).

I agree on the estimated level of wages and have said this many times previously.
In terms of the other figures you have mentioned there’s a fair few assumptions and optimistic numbers in there.
Revenue looks at least £10m too high based on previous numbers.
There’s likely to be a big lump of interest and commission charges from the debt and factoring deals (the latter is an extremely expensive way of financing)

I agree that some people exaggerate our transfer spend to suit their own arguments but even if we make some conservative assumptions we are going to be looking at between £20m and £30m off the bottom line (assuming staggered payment agreements over 3 or 4 years)

I would be personally surprised if any of the new investment was to fund transfers.

Think things are looking a lot more marginal than you are suggesting. When we got relegated last time our wage bill reached its lowest point for many years (just under £30m I was told). And we had significant money in from the sales of Collins, Cornet, Dwight, Pope etc.
We will not be in that position this time and in terms of selling players I think there was a lot more confidence around the kind of money we would get for proven quality and experienced players than there would be this time.

Guess we will all find out soon enough and I am not one in the Armageddon type camp. Just think there is a lot more uncertainty and risk we are carrying going into a relegation season than we have probably ever had in our recent history of dropping out of the Premier League.

[Big Vinny K]

It’s not rocket science to know we’re in a better position than the last relegation. I’m sure we’ll have increased general revenue considerably and there’s significant finance been generated from minor investors.

But as you say none of us know anything for certain it’s just my gut feeling from what I’ve heard/read.

Tbf there is probably more known about rocket science than our financial position !!

Why do you think “general revenue has increased considerably” from the last time we were in the premier league and got relegated ?
Are tv revenues that different ?
Season ticket revenues gone up much ?
We are pretty sure that the biggest non tv revenue line of shirt sponsorship is not as big as the last deal we did in the premier league (reported as the biggest in our history)

And then we have a massive reduction on players incoming transfer fees this time around.

That’s before you start to look at any of the increases in expenditure - most of which will be on the back of last summers transfer spend.

[Holtyclaret]

Tbf there is probably more known about rocket science than our financial position !!

Why do you think “general revenue has increased considerably” from the last time we were in the premier league and got relegated ?
Are tv revenues that different ?
Season ticket revenues gone up much ?
We are pretty sure that the biggest non tv revenue line of shirt sponsorship is not as big as the last deal we did in the premier league (reported as the biggest in our history)

And then we have a massive reduction on players incoming transfer fees this time around.

That’s before you start to look at any of the increases in expenditure - most of which will be on the back of last summers transfer spend.

It can’t only be me that’s noticed the number of sponsors and affiliates we now have.

Pace and co are far more savvy commercially than any previous regime.

Income from group of minor investors (I’m guessing) is well north of £100m.

Expenditure on new players last summer has been overstated and will be largely payable in instalments so probably not paid for on tick.

Again, who knows for certain. The accounts will give a better insight. But for a short stay in championship I think we’ll be fine and we’ll retain more of our young starlets than most think.

[Big Vinny K]

It can’t only be me that’s noticed the number of sponsors and affiliates we now have.

Pace and co are far more savvy commercially than any previous regime.

Income from group of minor investors (I’m guessing) is well north of £100m.

Expenditure on new players last summer has been overstated and will be largely payable in instalments so probably not paid for on tick.

Again, who knows for certain. The accounts will give a better insight. But for a short stay in championship I think we’ll be fine and we’ll retain more of our young starlets than most think.

Not really arguing that we won’t be fine. I am saying we are likely to be going into next season with more risk than last time.
Even if your figure for new investment is correct that is not income or revenue. Whatever new investment we have got in will bring with it a few other things too.

Not sure those fancy new advertising boards mean we have increased our revenue in this area significantly. I do know for a fact that we have lost a lot of very loyal and long standing sponsors since the takeover

[Jakubclaret]

You appear to assume more than me. We can only assume things as we don’t know half the facts. We’re all assuming relegation.

Let’s see how things pan out.

It's a period of uncertainty from now until the end. It's not looking good you can roughly assume or think along them lines without being certain. When would you like people to discuss the possible ramifications concerning relegation when it's mathematically confirmed.

[CoolClaret]

It can’t only be me that’s noticed the number of sponsors and affiliates we now have.

Pace and co are far more savvy commercially than any previous regime.

People often say this but I always point to our shirt sponsor in sort of 2018 or so with (I think) Laba Bet which was around the top 10-12 deals in the PL, pushing up around £8 Million

The sponsor from last season was one of the lowest in the Champ - I'm not sure on this seasons (don't have the data) so can't comment.

Obviously the better the team performs on the field/higher league position will likely result in better sponsorship - a return to the Champ certainly wouldn't be great for any potential sponsorship/affiliation.

[JohnMac]

Shirt sponsors should be left solely to the Club and not become a platform for crusading supporters to start lobbying for the banning of all things not to their liking.

[Vegas Claret]

I just don’t see it. He just looks like another lightweight lad from Europe that can’t cut it in the premier league.

He would do well in France IMO. Cant ever see him being successful in England.

Amdouni has been my biggest disappointment this season

he's been here about 6 months hasn't he ?

how long did it take you to realise Foster was a beast that needed time ?

[burnley007]

he's been here about 6 months hasn't he ?

how long did it take you to realise Foster was a beast that needed time ?

Exactly this.

I would imagine Ramsey is the same, which is why Villa decided to cash in because they aren't able to give him the time required, (but insisted on a buy-back).

[Newcastleclaret93]

he's been here about 6 months hasn't he ?

how long did it take you to realise Foster was a beast that needed time ?

I was actually the poster that suggested we signed Foster prior to his arrival. I’ve liked him from before he even arrived.

Amdouni was one I was really excited about but having seen him I struggle to see that he has the physical requirements

[Vegas Claret]

Exactly this.

I would imagine Ramsey is the same, which is why Villa decided to cash in because they aren't able to give him the time required, (but insisted on a buy-back).

Ramsay was outstanding at Boro last season, needs another season in the Championship

[Rick_Muller]

so, read the last umpteen pages on this thread... Is Manny B going to Southampton then? Cant seem to work it out from the discussion...

[Cooclaret]

You can if you work in Wall Street. In fact you can even wait until after it hits the fan if you manage to get someone else to carry the can. In fact you can even make a quick profit on it hitting the fan if you did a Michael Burry and bet on things hitting the fan. Positively encouraged back in the 2000s.

Our new owners come from a world where protective measures against things hitting the fan is completely alien and seen as bad business that risks smaller profit. I don't think they understand the risks or consequences entirely because their industry has never really had to consider them the same.

Do you have something against the new owners?

They’re very successful business people, are you a very successful business person?

You’ve been grinding an axe against bankers/financiers all day…

Sweeping statements about not understanding risk is a strange thing to say. You’re suggesting that they won’t have done due diligence prior to buying the club?

[Vegas Claret]

I was actually the poster that suggested we signed Foster prior to his arrival. I’ve liked him from before he even arrived.

Amdouni was one I was really excited about but having seen him I struggle to see that he has the physical requirements

have you seen how skinny Foden and Bernado Silva are ? Then take a look how long it took Foden (especially) to put it all together whilst playing in one of the most talented sides ever put together. It takes time and whilst there are absolutely no guarantees a player will come good there is a cast iron guarantee they wont if they aren't given time.

[Vegas Claret]

so, read the last umpteen pages on this thread... Is Manny B going to Southampton then? Cant seem to work it out from the discussion...

no chance

[Cooclaret]

Shirt sponsors should be left solely to the Club and not become a platform for crusading supporters to start lobbying for the banning of all things not to their liking.

But wouldn’t you just love to have Endsleigh back on a kit?

[Holtyclaret]

People often say this but I always point to our shirt sponsor in sort of 2018 or so with (I think) Laba Bet which was around the top 10-12 deals in the PL, pushing up around £8 Million

The sponsor from last season was one of the lowest in the Champ - I'm not sure on this seasons (don't have the data) so can't comment.

Obviously the better the team performs on the field/higher league position will likely result in better sponsorship - a return to the Champ certainly wouldn't be great for any potential sponsorship/affiliation.

I think there was more to the ‘classic football shirt’ sponsorship. We received a lot of publicity and kudos with it.

It was more of a general view, not just shirt deal (I think this seasons was pretty good and gives us some worldwide exposure). Earlier in the season there were loads of announcements about new sponsor for this and new partner for that. They’re all listed on the website but certainly far more than previously.

[CoolClaret]

I think there was more to the ‘classic football shirt’ sponsorship. We received a lot of publicity and kudos with it.

It was more of a general view, not just shirt deal (I think this seasons was pretty good and gives us some worldwide exposure). Earlier in the season there were loads of announcements about new sponsor for this and new partner for that. They’re all listed on the website but certainly far more than previously.

No doubt over here there was some good press with the sponsor

My overriding point though is that hype/perceptions aren't necessarily the real picture.

Just because the previous admin didn't make a big song and dance about it doesn't mean that they weren't seriously interested in it.

[Newcastleclaret93]

have you seen how skinny Foden and Bernado Silva are ? Then take a look how long it took Foden (especially) to put it all together whilst playing in one of the most talented sides ever put together. It takes time and whilst there are absolutely no guarantees a player will come good there is a cast iron guarantee they wont if they aren't given time.

We are talking two of the most technically gifted players in the league, who are also very strong (especially Foden he’s very rarely ever bullied of the ball).

There lies the problem some of the best technical players can get away with a lower physicality.

But players that have relative technical ability and little physicality very rarely do well at this level. Norwich signed loads of them over the years and pretty much all of them failed.

[Holtyclaret]

It's a period of uncertainty from now until the end. It's not looking good you can roughly assume or think along them lines without being certain. When would you like people to discuss the possible ramifications concerning relegation when it's mathematically confirmed.

Not quite sure what you’re getting at.

Barring a miracle run of form we’re down. Like most I’m not pleased with that at all, it could’ve been avoided.

I’m 100% sure Pace and his board will have contingency plans for this.

Personally don’t think it’ll result in a firesale or doomsday scenario and we’ll come back stronger and better equipped, similar to the start of Dyches tenure.

Time will tell how foolish or not my faith in ‘the project’ is.

[boyyanno]

We are talking two of the most technically gifted players in the league, who are also very strong (especially Foden he’s very rarely ever bullied of the ball).

There lies the problem some of the best technical players can get away with a lower physicality.

But players that have relative technical ability and little physicality very rarely do well at this level. Norwich signed loads of them over the years and pretty much all of them failed.

Personally think there's a couple of things that may hold Amdouni back in the PL.

One is the type of player he is and wether he will ever suit a bottom of the table type club. He looks like the kind of player that needs to play in a side that dominates teams and the ball to be fully effective- can't see him getting that with us at this level.

Two is what position he's best in- I'm still unsure to be honest.

[Ampth7]

We are talking two of the most technically gifted players in the league, who are also very strong (especially Foden he’s very rarely ever bullied of the ball).

There lies the problem some of the best technical players can get away with a lower physicality.

But players that have relative technical ability and little physicality very rarely do well at this level. Norwich signed loads of them over the years and pretty much all of them failed.

Of course muscle size does not always dictate how strong someone is. Both Foden and Silva as examples demonstrate this better than most and when combined with their high levels of agility, power off the mark and incredible technical football ability, they become very hard to stop! Messi was/is another great example.

[Vegas Claret]

We are talking two of the most technically gifted players in the league, who are also very strong (especially Foden he’s very rarely ever bullied of the ball).

not when he first started. Give Amdouni time before judging him

[Burnley1989]

It’s interesting how everyone views it isn’t it, I think he would be one to watch if we stayed up and after having 12 months in premier league but doesn’t look like we will see that, if he didn’t leave he would be far to good for the championship

I’m with you on this, I also think what he has described is how I see Benson.
I love the lad but I see how our lighter weight, smaller players have struggled this year, I really don’t think he’d have cut it.

[Newcastleclaret93]

not when he first started. Give Amdouni time before judging him

Fodens been a successful player for one of the best teams in history since he was 18.

Not sure he’s just suddenly turned into a beast