Buying a house isn't difficult.

[fatboy47]

Not to worry folks...we've got it all wrong..you youngsters just need to get your act together and learn to save a bit of cash.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... bs-latest/

[taio]

I would encourage any working youngster to open a lifetime ISA. Can make a big difference especially with the government bonus and growth or interest. An effective way of saving for a sizeable house deposit.

[Anthonini]

Not to worry folks...we've got it all wrong..you youngsters just need to get your act together and learn to save a bit of cash.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... bs-latest/

Is he talking about Bulgaria or some Spanish ghost town in the Pyrenees?

[Venkys4eva]

Ive never bought a house, never worried me. I have a lifetime tenancy, nice house in a rural area. Rent is fixed and is cheaper than a mortgage. No worrying about repairs or costly problems. Dont know why people are obsessed with owning a house.

[basil6345789]

Thesedays they want it all on a plate and straightaway. All contents have to be new too.

[Falcon]

Just showing himself up - how completely out of touch with reality for first time buyers nowadays

[Jjjack]

Ive never bought a house, never worried me. I have a lifetime tenancy, nice house in a rural area. Rent is fixed and is cheaper than a mortgage. No worrying about repairs or costly problems. Dont know why people are obsessed with owning a house.

It's because owning a house is an extra layer of security, especially when retired. If I'm paying x a month for the next 25 years, then I might as well be trying to maximise my returns on that outgoing through the equity of the property.

[Foshiznik]

Thesedays they want it all on a plate and straightaway. All contents have to be new too.

Because homeownership is such a new aspiration of young people and never was before now…

Easy to criticise by those who most likely bought a house for pittance decades ago and now sit on a nice golden nest egg.

[Quicknick]

Because homeownership is such a new aspiration of young people and never was before now…

Easy to criticise by those who most likely bought a house for pittance decades ago and now sit on a nice golden nest egg.

But they seem to expect a house when they are very young. I was 32 before I got on the property ladder. Bought with a mate, otherwise I couldn't have done it. Tiny two bedroom flat in Muswell Hill.

[CaptJohn]

Easy to criticise by those who most likely bought a house for pittance decades ago and now sit on a nice golden nest egg.

The very same people who lived through double digit interest rates and managed to thrive.

I do have sympathy for young buyers as prices have gone up considerably but I also have sympathy for savers who, up until quite recently, were getting a pittance for their savings due to ridiculously low interest rates.

[Herts Clarets]

Because homeownership is such a new aspiration of young people and never was before now…

Easy to criticise by those who most likely bought a house for pittance decades ago and now sit on a nice golden nest egg.

Really? I bought my first house at 23 and have owned a house since (I am 55) until the middle of last year when I sold the house and now rent.

[Newcastleclaret93]

It’s a strange time, but I would also argue that there’s never been a better time to make money.

Theres loads of avenues now.

[aggi]

Ive never bought a house, never worried me. I have a lifetime tenancy, nice house in a rural area. Rent is fixed and is cheaper than a mortgage. No worrying about repairs or costly problems. Dont know why people are obsessed with owning a house.

Well most people aren't lucky enough to get a lifetime tenancy.

My high point was moving into a flat where a couple of weeks later the owner told us he was selling it and we'd have to move out.

[ClaretOfMancunia]

Ive never bought a house, never worried me. I have a lifetime tenancy, nice house in a rural area. Rent is fixed and is cheaper than a mortgage. No worrying about repairs or costly problems. Dont know why people are obsessed with owning a house.

Is this satire?

To answer, it's because nearly nobody is in your relatively lucky situation as a renter - the vast, vast majority of private renters don't have lifetime tenancies. They have assured shortholds for 1 year at a time and rent isn't fixed.

[CaptJohn]

It’s a strange time, but I would also argue that there’s never been a better time to make money.

Theres loads of avenues now.

I agree but watch out for the evil CGT. The allowance is 6K this tax year but reduces to 3k on the 6th April 24. If ever there was a tax designed to stop taking risks with investments it is the horrible CGT. You make an investment with cash you've already paid tax on. You take 100% of the risk. You make a capital gain, sell the investment and there is HMRC with his hand out wanting 20% of the gain. It makes me sooooooooooo angry!
Max out your ISA allowance everyone.

[aggi]

Easy to criticise by those who most likely bought a house for pittance decades ago and now sit on a nice golden nest egg.

The very same people who lived through double digit interest rates and managed to thrive.

I do have sympathy for young buyers as prices have gone up considerably but I also have sympathy for savers who, up until quite recently, were getting a pittance for their savings due to ridiculously low interest rates.

But those low interest rates were matched by low inflation.

The big difference now is the ever increasing multiple between salaries and house prices which obviously make the deposit required ever bigger.

[ClaretOfMancunia]

The very same people who lived through double digit interest rates and managed to thrive.

Double digit interest was for a relatively short period, and the impact was less severe since the mortgage amounts were much lower relative to annual income in the first place - around four times the annual average average income.

Houses currently cost around 10 times the annual average income. The last time they were this expensive relative to earnings was 1876.

[fatboy47]

Alternative view in same rag.

Screenshot_20240105_125125_Samsung Internet.jpg (617.59 KiB) Viewed 5049 times

[ClaretOfMancunia]

Thesedays they want it all on a plate and straightaway. All contents have to be new too.

Total rubbish. I'm in my early 30's and of the five couples I know around my age who have bought in the past 10 years, they've all bought terraces that are falling to bits for around £120K in dump areas, because that's all they can afford. Nothing wrong with that of course, but doesn't exactly fit your narrative.

[CaptJohn]

But those low interest rates were matched by low inflation.

The big difference now is the ever increasing multiple between salaries and house prices which obviously make the deposit required ever bigger.

Not all of the time. I can recall crazy, double digit inflation as well. The multiples are worrying though and where do people get the deposits from? Bank of Mum & Dad in most cases but at times that can result in hardships if they can't manage the monthly repayments.

[Milltown1882]

I would encourage any working youngster to open a lifetime ISA. Can make a big difference especially with the government bonus and growth or interest. An effective way of saving for a sizeable house deposit.

This is what we did. It took 3 years but we managed to save £35k in that time just living within our means. Not everything has to be bought new/have the latest gadgets/cars on finance etc which is a big thing.

[Clovius Boofus]

Some parts of the country are simply unaffordable, even to second time buyers.

The problem I find up here in the cheaper parts of the country, is that some younger first time buyers tend to want a house like their parents and in a similar area too. What they forget is that their mum and dad most likely had a terraced before they bought their semi.

[jlup1980]

Double digit interest was for a relatively short period, and the impact was less severe since the mortgage amounts were much lower relative to annual income in the first place - around four times the annual average average income.

Houses currently cost around 10 times the annual average income. The last time they were this expensive relative to earnings was 1876.

This highlights the current issues. House prices are quite simply ridiculous when compared to earnings. I believe young people want to get on the ladder but they just don't have the resources to make it happen. They're told to stop buying coffee and save more, which is incredibly patronising, when the reality is some will never be in a position to buy a house due to the deposits required.

When my wife and I bought our first house we were already renting. We purposely rented a one bed flat in order to save more. We needed to find 5% of £127k to buy a 2 bed terrace near Salford Quays in 2008 - so just over £6k. I've had a look at the last house sold on the same street and that was back in in 2021 - it went for £225k. The minimum deposit these days is 10%, but most lenders seem to push for 15%. How can anyone save £22k-£33k whilst also living during a cost of living crisis?

Apparently, the average take home salary is £2.2k a month. Take out rent, utilities, food, commute costs (car or public transport), life costs (because contrary to what some think, people are allowed to want to live a little at the same time as buying a house) etc and it's going to take a long time to save upward of £35k. And ironically the longer it takes, the more savings they'll need as house prices continue to rise.

It's very tough and I really feel for people trying to do those things that their parents took for granted. Times have changed so much. Comparing what's happening now to my experiences 15 years ago is pointless, so comparing to double digit interest rates is completely missing the point and totally irrelevant.

[Chobulous]

Maybe if the banks were as quick to pass on interest rate rises to savers as they are to borrowers then saving might be a more attractive proposition

[dsr]

Alternative view in same rag.

Screenshot_20240105_125125_Samsung Internet.jpg

Unfortunately the person making the point against what Davies said is being equally stupid the other way. A 3-bed semi is not the standard house to buy for a first time buyer, and never has been.

Davies has at least part of a point in that some people could try harder to save. A young man or woman on minimum wage, working 40 hours a week, collects £20k minus about £3k tax. If they live at home with parents, and especially if they have an other half who does the same, (or of course flitting together between parents and in-laws), and they ensure that they seldom go out on expensive dates, they could save £20-£25k in a year. Clearly that isn't quite as easy as Davies makes out.

Obviously this only applies to people with co-operative parents who haven't chucked them out at the earliest opportunity, and who are willing to let them live rent-free for a year in order to get shut of them!

[aggi]

Not all of the time. I can recall crazy, double digit inflation as well. The multiples are worrying though and where do people get the deposits from? Bank of Mum & Dad in most cases but at times that can result in hardships if they can't manage the monthly repayments.

Whilst interest has been low inflation has always been low, certainly not double digit..



The trouble with bank of mum and dad is you're just killing social mobility.

My firm has an issue in that 20 years ago we'd get trainees from all over the country but now the majority of trainees are from London because it means they can still live with their parents.

[aggi]

Unfortunately the person making the point against what Davies said is being equally stupid the other way. A 3-bed semi is not the standard house to buy for a first time buyer, and never has been.

Davies has at least part of a point in that some people could try harder to save. A young man or woman on minimum wage, working 40 hours a week, collects £20k minus about £3k tax. If they live at home with parents, and especially if they have an other half who does the same, (or of course flitting together between parents and in-laws), and they ensure that they seldom go out on expensive dates, they could save £20-£25k in a year. Clearly that isn't quite as easy as Davies makes out.

Obviously this only applies to people with co-operative parents who haven't chucked them out at the earliest opportunity, and who are willing to let them live rent-free for a year in order to get shut of them!

Coincidentally that just links to my point above, you're also limited to working where your parents live.

[dsr]

Coincidentally that just links to my point above, you're also limited to working where your parents live.

Ture. But most people can find a minimum wage job near where they live. If they have a better paid job with perhaps better potential, they could afford to run a car.

I'm in the fortunate position of never having had to buy a house, which is of course the easiest way to get one, but I do know that young people at our office now can as a matter of course afford to run a car where they couldn't 40 years ago. There is more money available, but obviously house prices have gone up faster than inflation.

It must affect the rest of the country vastly more than here. There are still decent house to be had for less than £100k in this area.

[Kilson810]

I did 12 years in the military, saving loads of money on food and rent whilst building up decent savings. Now me and the Mrs are onto our 2nd house and I'm still only 32. First house was a relatively cheap, fixer-upper. Did most of the work myself and sold it on for a tidy profit to fund our dream house.

It was hard work and required plenty of sacrifice, but it can be done.

[ArmchairDetective]

Thesedays they want it all on a plate and straightaway. All contents have to be new too.

Me and my partner bought our first house a couple of years ago in our late 20's/early 30's. OId Victorian style terrace in Greater Manchester. I put money aside for years that could have gone towards holidays or whatever else. My partner worked her ass off to save and was able to save like mad during covid. Lockdown helped us buy a house for sure, but it's money that could have gone on something else. House needs a lot of work but we'll get there over time. With the current wage/house price ratio we feel very lucky to have been able to buy, and probably wouldn't have got there when we did it we weren't able to move back in with family during the process. Not everyone is able to do that.

In our case your statement is just purely wrong. There are plenty of other people I know who it also doesn't apply to.

[dsr]

Double digit interest was for a relatively short period, and the impact was less severe since the mortgage amounts were much lower relative to annual income in the first place - around four times the annual average average income.

Houses currently cost around 10 times the annual average income. The last time they were this expensive relative to earnings was 1876.

Not that short. From 1972 to 1992, bank base rate was below 8% for only a few months, and so mortgage interest would have been 10%+ for 20 years.

[Sproggy]

Alternative view in same rag.

Screenshot_20240105_125125_Samsung Internet.jpg

Maybe don't aim for a 3-bed semi as your first foray onto the property ladder?

[TommyPicks]

Ive never bought a house, never worried me. I have a lifetime tenancy, nice house in a rural area. Rent is fixed and is cheaper than a mortgage. No worrying about repairs or costly problems. Dont know why people are obsessed with owning a house.

Quite possibly one of the worst takes I've ever read on here. How many folk have access to a lifetime tenancy with fixed rent?!

Your 'fixed rent' might be cheaper, but in most cases mortgage payments will generally be cheaper than paying rent every month. I got very lucky in 2020 and fixed my mortgage at 1.94% and pay £430 per month. Most rental properties in the area you're talking £650-£750, and that can be on your standard terrace.

Sounds like you've got a great landlord, good for you. Many don't give a toss about repairs, and it's like pulling teeth trying to get them to come out and sort issues in the property.

[boatshed bill]

Unfortunately the person making the point against what Davies said is being equally stupid the other way. A 3-bed semi is not the standard house to buy for a first time buyer, and never has been.

Davies has at least part of a point in that some people could try harder to save. A young man or woman on minimum wage, working 40 hours a week, collects £20k minus about £3k tax. If they live at home with parents, and especially if they have an other half who does the same, (or of course flitting together between parents and in-laws), and they ensure that they seldom go out on expensive dates, they could save £20-£25k in a year. Clearly that isn't quite as easy as Davies makes out.

Obviously this only applies to people with co-operative parents who haven't chucked them out at the earliest opportunity, and who are willing to let them live rent-free for a year in order to get shut of them!

Or if their parents have a large enough house, and not a very large family.
I can't imagine the pressure that living with parents could cause.

[ClaretOfMancunia]

Not that short. From 1972 to 1992, bank base rate was below 8% for only a few months, and so mortgage interest would have been 10%+ for 20 years.

I was wrong - and you are right, they were in double digits for a much longer time than I thought - https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/boeapps ... k-Rate.asp

Still a red herring in this discussion though - it's not the interest rates which are prohibitive to first time buyers, it's the disparity in average earnings versus purchase prices. Four times average income in the 80's, ten times average income today.

[Raconteur]

Thank god i jumped on the ladder when i did.
I've now only got 2 months left on my mortgage and then it's fully paid off. Not bad for a 41 year old.
I must admit though, it was a lot easier when i got my mortgage. I think it was only 5% deposit back then.

[ClaretLoup]

Just to add to your excellent point CoM, before the eighties Conservative government unleashed the abolition of financial controls over house purchasing, house price inflation was very low, however interest rates for saving was relatively high so saving for a deposit was worthwhile. Now the opposite is the case re interest rates and house prices.

Also during and before the eighties couples in particular could offset their mortgage payments against income tax, plus Maggie gave everybody tax free grants to repair their houses. Add in the sale at knock down prices of thousands of council houses and it’s easy to see why the generation that are now retired did so well out of property.

[Tricky Trevor]

We bought in ‘74 and shortly after interest hit 16%. We were living on packet soups.
We could have increased our term but decided not and paid off in the initial 25 years. Been mortgage free for 25 years this year and what a difference it makes. I can’t understand anybody renting for life, dead money to me.
Every sympathy for the current generation scrambling to get a foothold on the property ladder. The fact that a property is seen as an investment more than a home in the UK is the biggest problem.

[Chobulous]

Just to add to your excellent point CoM, before the eighties Conservative government unleashed the abolition of financial controls over house purchasing, house price inflation was very low, however interest rates for saving was relatively high so saving for a deposit was worthwhile. Now the opposite is the case re interest rates and house prices.

Also during and before the eighties couples in particular could offset their mortgage payments against income tax, plus Maggie gave everybody tax free grants to repair their houses. Add in the sale at knock down prices of thousands of council houses and it’s easy to see why the generation that are now retired did so well out of property.

Tax free grants were available well before Thatcher came to power. My parents got a grant to build a kitchen extension to their terraced house in the very early seventies.

[FCBurnley]

Ive never bought a house, never worried me. I have a lifetime tenancy, nice house in a rural area. Rent is fixed and is cheaper than a mortgage. No worrying about repairs or costly problems. Dont know why people are obsessed with owning a house.

Unless your house is linked to your job or you are extremely old then I cannot believe that you have a lifetime tenancy at a fixed rent. If you have then congrats.

[Nori1958]

Easy to criticise by those who most likely bought a house for pittance decades ago and now sit on a nice golden nest egg.

The very same people who lived through double digit interest rates and managed to thrive.

I do have sympathy for young buyers as prices have gone up considerably but I also have sympathy for savers who, up until quite recently, were getting a pittance for their savings due to ridiculously low interest rates.

Double digit interest rates also mean higher mortgage rates, so no money left to save.

[FCBurnley]

We bought in ‘74 and shortly after interest hit 16%. We were living on packet soups.
We could have increased our term but decided not and paid off in the initial 25 years. Been mortgage free for 25 years this year and what a difference it makes. I can’t understand anybody renting for life, dead money to me.
Every sympathy for the current generation scrambling to get a foothold on the property ladder. The fact that a property is seen as an investment more than a home in the UK is the biggest problem.

What percent value has your house increased by since you bought. I suspect it will have been your best ever investment.

[fatboy47]

Tax free grants were available well before Thatcher came to power. My parents got a grant to build a kitchen extension to their terraced house in the very early seventies.

As did mine in the early 60s Chob.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Unless your house is linked to your job or you are extremely old then I cannot believe that you have a lifetime tenancy at a fixed rent. If you have then congrats.

He might be in prison?

[ClaretLoup]

As did mine in the early 60s Chob.

However I think Maggie extended the scope, amounts and eligibility criteria as I got money to fix my roof and other “ structural” improvements such as a new front door. I think there was also a time limit on payback if you moved within a certain period which was reduced.

[No Ney Never]

The willingness to make sacrifices and/or work a 2nd job or do overtime is one of my observations of the younger generation who whine about not being able to get on the property ladder.
Like my generation, the young uns today that are willing to put themselves out to achieve it, tend to succeed. It's those that want it, but are not willing to put the required effort in, that tend to whinge the most about not being able to achieve home ownership.

Home ownership is one of the best long term investments that any individual can make. We all have to live somewhere, and it rarely comes without cost. Once a mortgage is paid off, you are living rent free for the rest of your life.

Suppose when you retire you want to become a bargain loving Brit in the sun, it's much better to have the 100's of ,000's from the sale of your house in your pocket, plus your pension(s). Renting won't give you such a payout.

[Tricky Trevor]

What percent value has your house increased by since you bought. I suspect it will have been your best ever investment.

No argument from me on that. Another reason I can’t understand perpetual renters.
Although if every property in the country went up by 2% per annum I wouldn’t have cried about it.
We bought for £6k in ‘74 and sold in ‘04 for £150k.
Moving to Ireland we were lucky to get £1-€1.50 exchange rate which allowed us to buy a better house and put some rainy day money away.

[CoolClaret]

Ive never bought a house, never worried me. I have a lifetime tenancy, nice house in a rural area. Rent is fixed and is cheaper than a mortgage. No worrying about repairs or costly problems. Dont know why people are obsessed with owning a house.

Drummed into people with the rise of neo-liberalism in the 80s

Fine if you want to own but there should be a lot more decent quality social housing in the UK.

[TheFamilyCat]

Is this satire?

To answer, it's because nearly nobody is in your relatively lucky situation as a renter - the vast, vast majority of private renters don't have lifetime tenancies. They have assured shortholds for 1 year at a time and rent isn't fixed.

It means he lives with his mum.

[TheFamilyCat]

Maybe don't aim for a 3-bed semi as your first foray onto the property ladder?

Aspirations amongst younger people have certainly changed. When me and my mates bought our first houses around 20 years ago, it was about getting on the ladder. My first house was a back to back terrace but it served its purpose. 4-5 years ago I worked with a couple of young lasses looking to buy their first homes - they were looking at houses £150k to £200k, wanting a "forever home" for their first house.

A willingness to lower expectations for the first few years would see a lot of first time buyers on the ladder.