Cotterill

[ClaretTony]

Paul Weller had a few rants on Twitter in recent years saying similar.

Only because he opted not to sign him - he played five games for Rochdale after that

[Cirrus_Minor]

As mentioned above, certainly not unpopular. Did a decent job steadying the ship when we found ourselves broke. Tended to have us playing with the handbrake on and probably needed to move on when he did. Good manager though.

I was once on one of Willie Irvines prematch ground tours with Mrs CM in the home changing rooms when he emerged from the showers wearing nothing but a small strategically placed towel. SC saw my wife's eyes sticking out like Chapel hat pegs and gave Willie a bit of a bollocking. Needless to say we were all then quickly herded out.

[Belgianclaret]

Great feedback guys, thanks a lot

[Goliath]

Only because he opted not to sign him - he played five games for Rochdale after that

Think he was upset that Cotterill never spoke to him to say he wasn't needed. Not really sure why he would.

[Inchy]

I recall on under the cosh more than one ex pro saying he was a bit of a big head, but like a lot of what the guests on that podcast say, it’s likely sour grapes.


He did well to steady the ship but outstayed his welcome. We were treading water for too long and if you don’t move forward in that league you move back. Coyle came in and signed some utter crap but got us promoted playing exciting football using most Cotterill players.

That shows two things. Coyle signed a lot of crap and Cotterill couldn’t get the best out of the players. By the end he was a bad manager simple as that. Coyle proved that by being able to get us promotion with little more than camaraderie.

I think he’s learned his lessons and found his level. There’s a reason he hasn’t hacked it in the Championship since leaving us

[claretburns]

I recall on under the cosh more than one ex pro saying he was a bit of a big head, but like a lot of what the guests on that podcast say, it’s likely sour grapes.

Also players speak about him really well, Aaron Wilbraham for example said he was the best manager he played for.

[Clovius Boofus]

I met him a few times when he was here and got along fine with him. I also once got chatting with him when I was being served in a hotel bar - I think it might have been in Cheltenham.

[Nori1958]

Also players speak about him really well, Aaron Wilbraham for example said he was the best manager he played for.

The same for every boss in the world, some staff think you're the best, others don't.

[bodge]

I think it's telling that an influential member of our youth set up at the time dandeclaret had loads of time for Steve's style of football and approach to the game and his attempts to upgrade our infrastructure, this at a time when his tenure was receiving opprobrium on the old message board from howdenclaret, lutonclaret and others of that ilk.

Did well at a tough time did Steve.

[distortiondave]

He always came across as knowing more about the game than *you* do, whoever that *you* is he's speaking to, be it fans, press or whatever. He almost certainly did, but it doesn't always sit well. Dyche had a bit of that about him too, and Stan. Dismissive of other people's opinions.

But if you have that kind of mien, then things start to go wrong, it makes an intense personality seem somewhat manic and at times he looked like he'd been up all night taking speed trying to pass his psychology A-level.

[Blondeclaret]

Bet he never told you how he got his Aston Martin?
He used to park it under the cricket field stand and the pigeon’s used to poop on it

[dandeclaret]

Bet he never told you how he got his Aston Martin?
He used to park it under the cricket field stand and the pigeon’s used to poop on it

What was the number plate? F3RG13

[BigChaCha]

He steadied the ship and was a safe pair of hands but he was also the most dour and negative manager we have ever had!... This was reflected in his interviews where he ran us down every time as a tiny club with no money... It got a bit much after a while and I prefer a more positive person in charge... His personality also showed in the type of football we played, which made Dyhe-ball almost Brazialian-like in style comparison!

[Fretters]

His decision to play Alexander at CM when we were crying out for a RB was baffling at the time, but it later showed that he knew what he was doing. Sadly for him, Duff's ACL injury meant it wasn't until the Coyle days that Grezza could flourish in that role.

Someone above said Coyle signed utter crap by the way, but it was the additions of Thompson, Paterson and Eagles that turned the Cotterill squad into promotion winners.

[ClaretTony]

His decision to play Alexander at CM when we were crying out for a RB was baffling at the time, but it later showed that he knew what he was doing. Sadly for him, Duff's ACL injury meant it wasn't until the Coyle days that Grezza could flourish in that role.

Someone above said Coyle signed utter crap by the way, but it was the additions of Thompson, Paterson and Eagles that turned the Cotterill squad into promotion winners.

Duff was playing right back when we signed Alexander - he always told me that Duff would eventually become a central defender at that level though. So not sure why it was baffling. He tried to bring in another right back when Duff then did his ACL but the transfer was cancelled when he left.

Thompson was Coyle's key signing, no doubt about that for me, but was Paterson a better option than Andy Gray and Eagles was too much in and out of the team to be considered a player who turned the team round. The key players in that side were undoubtedly Alexander, Caldwell, Carlisle, Blake and Elliott.

[mdd2]

`Cotts like SD played the game he could with the players he had. His success was keeping us in the Championship inheriting a squad of I think 8 first teamers with diddly squat money. He made some very shrewd signings IMO. Pretty sure without Cotts we would have been relegated. As with most managers when he left his time had come. Seemed to me he did OK until Flood arrived with some money and although he made some good signings he wasnt able to play them to their strengths.

[ecc]

At one of his testimonial evenings, Duff was asked about his Burnley managers

Cotterill - owe my career to him but at times he was too intense
Coyle -the most unprofessional squad he’d been involved with that the senior players pulled us through
Laws - was never given a chance
Howe - he never spoke to me
Dyche - a modern manager with old fashioned values

Interesting as MD's views matter to me.

Re. Eddie Howe: shouldn't be surprised as he has a good track record of not bothering to speak to people who don't fit in with his plans. Wade Elliott was another. People like that deserved respect even if he didn't want them. MD got his revenge though.

Martin Dobson (who?) and Vince Overson didn't get much respect from Howe either.

[BurnleyFC]

Cotterill did a good job for us in mostly very trying circumstances.

I’m glad his heath seems to be on the mend after his COVID scare, too.

[Fretters]

Duff was playing right back when we signed Alexander - he always told me that Duff would eventually become a central defender at that level though. So not sure why it was baffling. He tried to bring in another right back when Duff then did his ACL but the transfer was cancelled when he left.

Thompson was Coyle's key signing, no doubt about that for me, but was Paterson a better option than Andy Gray and Eagles was too much in and out of the team to be considered a player who turned the team round. The key players in that side were undoubtedly Alexander, Caldwell, Carlisle, Blake and Elliott.

I think we all knew Duff wasn't a natural RB and Grezza had played there for years. I was baffled anyway.

Agree about the key players, but Thommo and (in my opinion, remember) the others played a major part. Pato got some big goals that season.

[Papabendi]

At one of his testimonial evenings, Duff was asked about his Burnley managers


Coyle -the most unprofessional squad he’d been involved with that the senior players pulled us through

The team Coyle got us up with, was give or take, the same team as Cotterill had. So in some ways, a bit of a strange comment. I suppose ultimately everyone has a view. Coyle delivered something that Cotterill was never likely to do, and Duff benefited.

[Papabendi]

Interesting as MD's views matter to me.

Re. Eddie Howe: shouldn't be surprised as he has a good track record of not bothering to speak to people who don't fit in with his plans. Wade Elliott was another. People like that deserved respect even if he didn't want them. MD got his revenge though.

Martin Dobson (who?) and Vince Overson didn't get much respect from Howe either.

To my mind, Howe did the same job as Cotterill did. Signed the players that laid the groundwork to success.

[Inchy]

In my life we have had the following managers

Mullen
Heath
Stan
Cotts
Coyle
Laws
Howe
Dyche
VK


I don’t think Heath was about long enough to rank him but I’d put Cotts below VK, Howe, Dyche, Coyle, Stan, and Mullen in terms of influence or quality of management, or both

Basically he’s better than Laws.

[Goliath]

Duff was playing right back when we signed Alexander - he always told me that Duff would eventually become a central defender at that level though. So not sure why it was baffling. He tried to bring in another right back when Duff then did his ACL but the transfer was cancelled when he left.

Thompson was Coyle's key signing, no doubt about that for me, but was Paterson a better option than Andy Gray and Eagles was too much in and out of the team to be considered a player who turned the team round. The key players in that side were undoubtedly Alexander, Caldwell, Carlisle, Blake and Elliott.

I think that underplays Eagles role tbh. He was inconsistent yes but when he was on it he was close to unplayable at that level and his finishing 1 on 1 was tremendous.
I think most of them were key tbh, Mccann and Gudjonssen also played very important roles at times. It was a small squad but they were all performing when needed. Even Mahon who was strangely excluded completely for most of the season.

[Big Vinny K]

In my life we have had the following managers

Mullen
Heath
Stan
Cotts
Coyle
Laws
Howe
Dyche
VK


I don’t think Heath was about long enough to rank him but I’d put Cotts below VK, Howe, Dyche, Coyle, Stan, and Mullen in terms of influence or quality of management, or both

Basically he’s better than Laws.

You missed Chris Waddle
Cotts did a far better job than Waddle or Heath.

In terms of Mullen we had great times and he got us promoted which is obviously more enjoyable and exciting than Cotterill’s job which was to keep us up and rebuild a team in the championship. The team that Cotterill built was much better than any team under Mullen.

Would not disagree that the rest of the managers achieved more than Cotterill. Though there is a bit of a debate to be had that Howe with far more resources than Cotterill ever had did not do any better than him in terms of league position etc.

Common denominator with Howe and Cotterill though is that they were both responsible for bringing in good players (for not much money) that were instrumental in Coyle and Dyche getting promotion to the Premier League.

[ClaretTony]

The team Coyle got us up with, was give or take, the same team as Cotterill had. So in some ways, a bit of a strange comment. I suppose ultimately everyone has a view. Coyle delivered something that Cotterill was never likely to do, and Duff benefited.

It was more about the fact that they didn’t really train for games in the way Duff will have done for every other manager.

[Casper2]

Only because he opted not to sign him - he played five games for Rochdale after that

And Weller suffered from a debilitating illness , so why the dig .

[Papabendi]

It was more about the fact that they didn’t really train for games in the way Duff will have done for every other manager.

Well strangely it seemed to work.

[ClaretTony]

And Weller suffered from a debilitating illness , so why the dig .

I think you have totally misunderstood my post if you think I was having a dig at anyone.

Weller had not been offered a new contract by Stan, one of four players I recall. The club said they would leave it up to the new manager whether he chose to offer them contracts or not. He didn’t offer them to any of the four. And I just said that Weller played just five games for Rochdale and then he had a trial for Carlisle during which time he played a reserve team game against us. All I was trying to suggest was that Cotterill’s decision was justified.

[ClaretTony]

Well strangely it seemed to work.

It obviously did for a while

[Bordeauxclaret]

Well strangely it seemed to work.

Certainly did. Breathed new life into a club and fans that were full of apathy.
Coyle was the perfect replacement for Cotterill.

[Casper2]

I think you have totally misunderstood my post if you think I was having a dig at anyone.

Weller had not been offered a new contract by Stan, one of four players I recall. The club said they would leave it up to the new manager whether he chose to offer them contracts or not. He didn’t offer them to any of the four. And I just said that Weller played just five games for Rochdale and then he had a trial for Carlisle during which time he played a reserve team game against us. All I was trying to suggest was that Cotterill’s decision was justified.

Fair enough

[Papabendi]

It obviously did for a while

When did it start to fall apart exactly? We were doing OK in the Prem under Coyle and probably would have stayed up if he had stayed. Yes the away form was not good but ultimately we were having a far more credible season than the one we are having now despite all the investment.

[Goliath]

It worked because we had a team full of leaders who could hold things together on the pitch and probably jm the dressing room as well. Alexander, Caldwell and Blake were all Burnley captains at different times and im guessing Carlisle/Duff wore the captains armband a fair few times as well.

I can actually see Coyle doing well again somewhere one day, he can clearly motivate people, but he probably needs coaches with more tactical nouse than Sandy Stewart and Steve Davis.
Wilshere, Sturridge and Holden absolutely thrived under hkm and they were top level talents

[COBBLE]

Absolutely played a vital part in getting us to the promised land. I recall Micky Duff saying he went to Cotts for tactical advice but learned from Sean for man management. Coyle gets 7 on 10 less 6 for disrespect and duplicity.

[ClaretTony]

When did it start to fall apart exactly? We were doing OK in the Prem under Coyle and probably would have stayed up if he had stayed. Yes the away form was not good but ultimately we were having a far more credible season than the one we are having now despite all the investment.

In terms of results, we'd gone nine without a win when he left. We could possibly have stayed up had he stayed but who knows? I think we all know that the players decided they didn't want to play for Laws and they continued that with Howe although Howe had a bit more nous and got rid of the troublesome players rather than try to win them over. I saw the way the players treated Laws and Howe at the Supporters Clubs Player of the Year evenings and it wasn't good, in fact it was downright disrespectful.

I might be wrong with the player but I think it was Blake who said that Coyle's tactics were to tell you that you were better than the players you were up against and it made you think that. Only problem was, when we started losing games it started to wear a bit thin.

One player once told me that they were able to do what they wanted with Coyle and they just got on with it, then suddenly things changed and they didn't like it.

[Papabendi]

Ok. But a number were draws including one away at City. Point is form hadn’t dropped through a trapdoor. And certainly nothing like the absolutely dire home form we’ve seen this season.

I think we would have stayed up. Particularly based on the signings he had lined up in Jan. Whatever it was he was doing, he was getting some things right.

[helmclaret]

Considering the hand he was dealt, Cotterill’s recruitment of the likes of Sinclair and Mcgreal was great at the the time. Blake came back the fittest and leanest he had ever been after a pre season with SC.

[ClaretTony]

Ok. But a number were draws including one away at City. Point is form hadn’t dropped through a trapdoor. And certainly nothing like the absolutely dire home form we’ve seen this season.

I think we would have stayed up. Particularly based on the signings he had lined up in Jan. Whatever it was he was doing, he was getting some things right.

I wouldn't disagree with you but given how close we were in the end, there is a chance we could have stayed up. We certainly weren't doing no matter who came in to replace him.

My dad used to tell me we won the league with Alan Brown's players, and Jimmy Mullen took us up with Frank Casper's. Likewise they were virtually Steve Cotterill's players that Coyle took us up with. I suspect all three scenarios needed that change of manager to take us up though.

[daveisaclaret]

Even if you think he would have kept us up, you have to see Coyle's career turned around when Bolton got thrashed by Stoke at Wembley. That man has had a long career as a manager and not much of it is very good.

[helmclaret]

A promotion to the Premier League playing attacking football is more success than most managers get.

[Goliath]

In terms of results, we'd gone nine without a win when he left. We could possibly have stayed up had he stayed but who knows? I think we all know that the players decided they didn't want to play for Laws and they continued that with Howe although Howe had a bit more nous and got rid of the troublesome players rather than try to win them over. I saw the way the players treated Laws and Howe at the Supporters Clubs Player of the Year evenings and it wasn't good, in fact it was downright disrespectful.

I might be wrong with the player but I think it was Blake who said that Coyle's tactics were to tell you that you were better than the players you were up against and it made you think that. Only problem was, when we started losing games it started to wear a bit thin.

One player once told me that they were able to do what they wanted with Coyle and they just got on with it, then suddenly things changed and they didn't like it.

What happened at the player of the year evenings?
It always disappointed me to hear Carlisle and Alexander some of the names that treated Howe badly after all thr good times theyd had at the club. It could have destroyed a young managers career.

It may not have gone that well on the pitch for him but getting through that was probably as much of a test as anything he had at Bournemouth. I doubt he would have ended up being where he is now without his time here.

[jedi_master]

Left at the right moment but there is no doubt he did a really good job for us overall, particularly with recruitment. He came into a club that had only just stayed up under Stan in 03/04 and I think he had 8 first team players (not very good ones barring Blake, either). To keep us solidly mid-table in 04/05 was a good effort, also taking Blackburn the distance in the Cup despite the massive disparity between the clubs at the time. He managed to actually GET money for Ian Moore despite him being woeful for about 2 years and having only 6 months left on his contract too. Signings he made that were absolutely brilliant for us on a cost->benefit basis off the top of my head:

Frank Sinclair (Free)
John McGreal (Free)
Gary Cahill (Loan)
Michael Duff (£30k)
Micah Hyde (Free)
Wade Elliott (Free)
Jon Harley (£50k?)
Nathan Dyer (Loan)
Andy Gray (£750k)
Djemba-Djemba (Loan)
Joey Gudjonsson (£100k)
Steve Caldwell (£200k)
Paul McVeigh (Loan)
Robbie Blake (£250k)
Clarke Carlisle (£200k)
Graham Alexander (£200k)
Andy Cole (Loan)
Stephen Jordan (Free)

He was a vital manager for us and probably someone we can look back at more fondly than we gave him credit for when he was here.

[FeedTheArf]

Left at the right moment but there is no doubt he did a really good job for us overall, particularly with recruitment. He came into a club that had only just stayed up under Stan in 03/04 and I think he had 8 first team players (not very good ones barring Blake, either). To keep us solidly mid-table in 04/05 was a good effort, also taking Blackburn the distance in the Cup despite the massive disparity between the clubs at the time. He managed to actually GET money for Ian Moore despite him being woeful for about 2 years and having only 6 months left on his contract too. Signings he made that were absolutely brilliant for us on a cost->benefit basis off the top of my head:

Frank Sinclair (Free)
John McGreal (Free)
Gary Cahill (Loan)
Michael Duff (£30k)
Micah Hyde (Free)
Wade Elliott (Free)
Jon Harley (£50k?)
Nathan Dyer (Loan)
Andy Gray (£750k)
Djemba-Djemba (Loan)
Joey Gudjonsson (£100k)
Steve Caldwell (£200k)
Paul McVeigh (Loan)
Robbie Blake (£250k)
Clarke Carlisle (£200k)
Graham Alexander (£200k)
Andy Cole (Loan)
Stephen Jordan (Free)

He was a vital manager for us and probably someone we can look back at more fondly than we gave him credit for when he was here.

He could definitely spot a player, especially on a shoestring! I’ve thought for a while he’d could comfortably operate at Championship level or even low-end Prem team as a Director of Football/Head of Recruitment type role - would probably pay more than a L2 manager aswell.

[matttheclaret]

Left at the right moment but there is no doubt he did a really good job for us overall, particularly with recruitment. He came into a club that had only just stayed up under Stan in 03/04 and I think he had 8 first team players (not very good ones barring Blake, either). To keep us solidly mid-table in 04/05 was a good effort, also taking Blackburn the distance in the Cup despite the massive disparity between the clubs at the time. He managed to actually GET money for Ian Moore despite him being woeful for about 2 years and having only 6 months left on his contract too. Signings he made that were absolutely brilliant for us on a cost->benefit basis off the top of my head:

Frank Sinclair (Free)
John McGreal (Free)
Gary Cahill (Loan)
Michael Duff (£30k)
Micah Hyde (Free)
Wade Elliott (Free)
Jon Harley (£50k?)
Nathan Dyer (Loan)
Andy Gray (£750k)
Djemba-Djemba (Loan)
Joey Gudjonsson (£100k)
Steve Caldwell (£200k)
Paul McVeigh (Loan)
Robbie Blake (£250k)
Clarke Carlisle (£200k)
Graham Alexander (£200k)
Andy Cole (Loan)
Stephen Jordan (Free)

He was a vital manager for us and probably someone we can look back at more fondly than we gave him credit for when he was here.

Certainly signed some very good players for us. You covered most of them, would add Ade (the first time) to that list. £600k, lots of goals (including that Luton game) and sold for nearly £2 million a year later.

[ClaretsPadiham]

A fantastic manager on a shoe string budget.

James O Connor was a terrific player, so good in the air for his size.

Great performances under Cotterill, Luton away, Preston at home 3-2, Norwich away on Sky and Liverpool in the FA Cup are the ones that stick out to me. Oh and the Barnsley come back with Giftons hat trick ?

Started the season well spanking Coventry was it 4-0 ?

Gareth O Connor showed glimpses of a real player what happened ??

Remember his free kick at Wolves in a game we got absolutely battered but managed to win 1-0.

[xxmunkyennuixx]

We owe Cotts a lot. Feel like his squad building added to the foundations his predecessors had formed. The fact he did this when we had a very low budget would nudge him above Howe for me. We have been blessed with some good managers. I have softened on Coyle and would have him above Cotts below Vinny and Dyche. A promotion to the Premier League is no easy feat - I think we are operating above our true level which is to bounce around lower mid-Championship really. Staying in the league is truly exceptional. Dyche's time here will be very difficult to surpass in the near future.

[ClaretTony]

Dyche's time here will be very difficult to surpass in the near future.

Beyond very difficult I think - just unbelievable what he gave us

[claretburns]

What happened at the player of the year evenings?
It always disappointed me to hear Carlisle and Alexander some of the names that treated Howe badly after all thr good times theyd had at the club. It could have destroyed a young managers career.

But when Howe arrived when he got to his first summer window he binned off any senior player and didn't want anything to do with old players, apart from Duff. Carlisle in particular has strong words to say about Eddie Howe's man management, though Eddie was probably enjoying himself to much in the physio room to care.

[John Johnson 1605]

I look back at Cotterill’s reign with great fondness. Attended with my 2 boys who were primary age, walking back from the game with the youngest on my shoulders. Kick off’s invariably at 3pm on a Saturday. Signings I might have heard of, a shirt sponsor I might have heard of and a Chairman who was in it for the right reasons.

And the Junior Clarets events; Christmas parties with the Father Christmas and more importantly players in attendance. Subsidised away trips and free mascot opportunities. Yes free!

Throw in unexpected victories, transfer surpluses and a feeling that we were boxing above our weight. Above all a real connection between the board, manager, team and fans.

Nostalgic? Certainly, but I really enjoyed those years and though we are now bigger, better and more professional (in theory) I preferred being a Burnley much more back then.

[FeedTheArf]

though Eddie was probably enjoying himself to much in the physio room to care.

Quite the claim