The Seven Virtues of Mental Health

[Rowls]

Jdrobbo of this board recently started the brilliant viral #MileforLyle campaign that brought mental health to the fore. It was a great initiative that brought people together, raised awareness of what we can do to help safeguard our mental health and, of course, showed a tonne of support and appreciation for our own Lyle Foster.

It's great that people are taking a more conscious effort to look after their mental health because our modern lifestyles encourage so many habits and behaviours that aren't good for us in the long term.

I've recently read an article quoting a study by the UK BIoBank that lists seven "virtues" that can help immensely to stay on top of your mental health.

These are seven lifestyle factors that can massively improve your mental health.

They don't make you "immune" to mental health problems but they're also easy and achievable and can help you to look after yourself.

The seven virtues are:

* Drink less alcohol. Moderate consumption is actually associated with better mental health outcomes but drink sociably with others and stick to guidelines.
* Healthy Eating. Junk the junk food. Cook from scratch. Eat a balanced diet with plenty of fresh meat, fish, fruit and vegetables.
* Exercise. Break sweat at least once a day. You don't have to be a gym freak (nothing wrong with that though) it can be as simply as walking briskly to the shops. Get out of your car. Enjoy the fresh air. Get of the sofa. Break sweat.
* Less Screen Time. Obviously if you're sat on behind all day, it compounds other factors but the rise of social media add another malevolent element to screentime. Turn off the news. Switch off your phone. Avoid social media.
* Good sleep hygiene. There's been a thread on insomnia recently and lots of us struggle with this. However, there are lots of habits and tips that can really help. All the advice is achievable - just google "sleep hygiene".
* Strong support networksp. Having a good strong social network is key. Friends and family can help guard against mental health problems. Not just in hard times, but in good times too. Don't think of it as a free service. To paraphrase JFK: Ask not what your friends and family can do for you; ask what you can do for your friends and family.
* Don't smoke. Self explanatory. And don't take drugs either.

The article states that if you manage to balance these eminently achievable lifestyle factors you will reduce your chances of suffering depression by a stunning 57%.

All the best Clarets and stay healthy.

https://www.psychiatrist.com/news/7-lif ... udy-finds/

[jdrobbo]

Thanks for sharing, Rowls. Interesting stuff. Only two weeks ago, I decided to ‘try’ and address the 4th and 5th points in your list, regarding sleep hygiene and reduced screen time…since returning to work after Christmas, I’ve been reading (and thoroughly enjoying) Dave T’s Clive Holt book at night and once in bed, putting the devices away.

It’s a complex subject: it affects so many people in so many ways, but I agree that focussing on the seven points can certainly help.

Cheers and look out for one another, and yourself!

[Anonymous Claret]

Thanks for posting these 7 virtues Rowls. Hopefully people will take heed of these guidelines.
I don't drink alcohol, smoke or take drugs except caffeine. Thankfully I am not on any prescribed medication either.
I cook most main meals from scratch although I still eat a little too much processed food, especially sugary items.
I walk everyday with the dog and after a 4 or 5 month lay off I intend to recommit to fell walking.
I have a very good social support network.
I very rarely struggle with sleeping.
A lot of my work involves sitting in front of a computer and I can also spend too much of my leisure time in front of the computer also.
Overall I am quite happy with the quality of my life but there are areas where I can improve.

I have also found that the 5 ways to wellbeing also improve my mental health.

[Hipper]

Six of those seven, and even the possibly seventh (strong support network) are the usual suggestions for a healthy body.

Do these make up 57% of the causes of mental health issues?

Who is actually going to change their ways on looking at this list?

[Rowls]

Six of those seven, and even the possibly seventh (strong support network) are the usual suggestions for a healthy body.

Do these make up 57% of the causes of mental health issues?

Who is actually going to change their ways on looking at this list?

Without reading the full scholarly article, my basic understanding what they're saying is that if everybody who has a current diagnosis of depression were to maintain a healthy balance on all those seven "virtues" then it would more than likely be enough to remove their symptoms of depression in 57% of these people.

There's a lot of if and buts and suppositions made there (both on my part and in the article) but that's partly because the causes of depression are complex and it isn't a simple problem that has a simple cure. If anybody knows more than me or if I've misunderstood it please post and share.

I read a little more last night and depending on your source, somewhere between 1 in 10 UK adults and 1 in 6 UK adults has a current diagnosis of depression. This means that somewhere between 7 and 4 million adults are currently living with depression or symptoms of depression.

If every single adult in the UK focused on ensuring they met all of the "virutes" listed in the article linked in the OP, then between 2.5 million - 4.1 million adults would be cured of their depression.

Just think how many lives would be turned around if that were to happen. Imagine the difference that would make to all those people all over the country.

[Stalbansclaret]

I recently moved back to the area (Barrowford) on retirement and also following a relationship break-up. I have great friends but they are scattered across the UK so most of the time it's WhatsApp messaging rather than human contact. I realised that i was going to have to try and consciously "do stuff" to avoid any risk of feeling low rising from isolation and/or lack of direction following retirement. So :
- I start every day with a decent long walk interspersed with a stop in a coffee shop where I'll have breakfast and enjoy reading a book for 30-45 minutes. Ive read some great books and this morning routine starts the day with purpose and is energising. I averaged 18000 steps a day last year and have usually done the bulk of these by lunchtime. Wireless earbuds for podcasts/Apple Music/BBC Sounds are great company when walking.
- Joined a local walking football club. Play twice a week and have met a great bunch of blokes (mainly Clarets) as a result
- Carried on my lockdown hobby of learning to play guitar via You Tube videos
- Took a lot more interest in smartening up my house and garden than I ever have done previously
- Make sure I always have social meet ups with friends and my kids planned in the diary in the very near future . I think it was the author Iris Murdoch who said the secret of happiness in life is always having something to look forward to.

The above , plus a new girlfriend here in Lancs, have kept me in a good place thankfully. Not sure about the healthy eating as I am a bit overly fond of a bacon butty or a pie and a couple of pints. Dont eat McFood though. I sleep well , helped by the walking !

BFC helped a lot with mental health last season Much less so this !
-
-

[ecc]

Where does "Avoid coming from a broken home" come on this list of virtues?

[willsclarets]

I'm lucky that I can fall asleep almost instantly on a concrete floor. Trying hard over the past month to increase exercise and eat a little better. Meals are pretty well balanced and homecooked, however I eat ridiculous portions and I'm a world champion snacker. Its all simple stuff but not necessarily easy practically. One thing at a time!

[Rowls]

Where does "Avoid coming from a broken home" come on this list of virtues?

It doesn't, for the reason that this is one of the factors outside of your control.

There are factors within your control and factors outside of your control.

By focusing on what is in your control you exercise more control over your life. If you focus on what is out of your control you simply engender a misplaced sense of hopelessness.

[Rowls]

Where does "Avoid coming from a broken home" come on this list of virtues?

Hi again ecc,

I've already responded to this once but it was just a few minutes before kick off and I was just about to take my seat for the game. However I'd wanted to come back and write more about this.

You've brought up factor of coming from a broken home and I've explained the difference between factors within our control and factors outside of our control.

Since we cannot decide which family we are born into, as children this falls firmly into the category of 'things outside of our control'.

I wanted to return to this point because there's something very important about which aspects of our lives we focus on. There are proven techniques which anybody can learn and use that can help us in the challenges that life throws us. One of them is to focus your time and energy on the things that we have under our control. This is one of the key tenets of the discipline of Stoicism. If anybody is suffering with their mental health I'd strongly advise them to research what Stoicism is and what it can teach us in our modern world.

You're absolutely correct to point out that somebody coming from a broken home has a statistically larger chance of developing mental health problems. That child cannot do much at all about the sad failure of their parents relationship. But they exercise a large agency over their life as an adult. They can still take their time to exercise the "seven virtues" listed in the OP for example. They can't go back in time and stop their parents splitting up. But they can control every other aspect of their life that affects their mental health.

Acknowledging the "seven virtues" doesn't mean we pretend that everybody starts from the point. Sadly (infamously) life isn't fair. We all know that. But should the people who start with a disadvantage in life focus on their disadvantages? The risk is that they become disgruntled and harbour grudges and burdens. This kind of thinking is proven to become a kind of self fulfilling destiny. If you view yourself as a victim and believe that you are a victim, what motivation can you find in life? It's a very easy trap to fall into. Tragically, there are always perverse incentives for people to present themselves as victims. They might win sympathy and attention in the short term, but in the long term they are damaging their lives. To live under a constant mentality of victimhood is to wilfully sabotage your mental health. Few things in life can be so assured to destroy your morale and life chances than living your life as a victim.

Think about the sports saying, "If you believe you will be beaten, you already are." It's so true it's a cliche. There isn't a sport in the world that this truism hasn't been applied to. The same applies to life. If you believe you are a victim, you are already beaten.

Instead, if you focus on the things you have the power to change, you can witness yourself exercising control over these aspects of your life. The joy in seeing yourself accomplish something is real and palpable. Think of literally anything you've achieved in life - it could be something childish like building a lego set, finishing a drawing, finishing a long book - these things bring pleasure and satisfaction because we know that we've achieved something. The same feeling can be achieved in much more adult aspects of life - taking up a new hobby and finding how enjoyable it is, changing your diet for the better and learning to cook, successfully losing weight and having the pleasure of watching the pounds slowly but inexorably slimming down and feeling fitter for it.

These successes make us feel better because we are exercising control over aspects of life that we might have previously neglected. In doing so, these successes improve our mental health. You've only got to see the joy people get when we have those shared weight loss threads to see the proof of this.

You won't always enjoy success. Sometimes you will fail. But if you fail and learn from the experience you can pick yourself up and go again with more experience. As our own Vincent Kompany says, "You never lose. You either win or you learn how not to lose that way again."

But let's go back to the hypothetical original question you posed about the people who come from broken homes. Yes, it puts them at a disadvantage. A family breakdown is one of the most stressful and harrowing things a child can go through and I'm very fortunate that I only comprehend that from second hand information.

But those children are not irredeemable. We might refer to their households as being 'broken' but the children are very much bursting with life and potential.

People who take a Stoical view on life are often accused of 'ignoring' things that we find difficult as we tend to seek out and focus on things within our control but this is not true. What can we do about the children who come from broken homes?

As children, we can do very little about these matters.

But as adults there is a multitude of things that we can focus on and activities we can partake in that could help.

If it is our own relationship that we are struggling with, we can work hard to do everything we humanly can to repair the relationship. We can accept our faults and work with our partners to heal the cracks. A relationship is 100% within our abilities to fix and save. Yes, it will require the good faith of both of the couple and it might be a lot of hard work and difficult to achieve but it is within their control. But if both parties truly want to save the relationship then nothing is irredeemable.

What else can we do? We can do our best to look out for our friends and family who we might suspect are having relationship difficulties. What can we do to help them? We'll only know if we do our best to reach out and ask them. Can we help out with childcare? We wouldn't want to impose ourselves but there might be things we can do to help. The amount of help that grandparents willingly provide in terms of childcare must keep millions of relationships from hitting the rocks. I know a lot of grandparents feel taken for granted about this aspect (even if they enjoy spending time with their grandchildren) so if this applies to you, perhaps it would help you to mentally re-process this unpaid childcare by thinking about not just as providing childcare but simultaneously helping your children's marriages and relationships?

What else can we do? Well, if you're inclined to think about it further you could help support an organisation that helps families. Maybe such as volunteering at a foodbank, working in childcare, offering help at a church or other religious organisation who provide help for families. You might even choose to spend your time working for a political party whose policies you believe will help families and children.

Not all of these things will be successful. But if you throw your time and energy into these activities you will find purpose and meaning in your life. Even if you don't successfully reach your end goal, you will learn something and you will have a more fulfilling life than if you had sat at home feeling sorry for yourself.

So how can I sum up an answer to your question as succinctly as possible?

Firstly, as stated above, I rebut and refute any possible inference anybody could make that my viewpoints seeks to ignore truths that are "problematic".

The hypothetical child you speak of has even more reason than anybody to follow the "seven virtues" of mental health. That's the answer to your question.

The fact that not everybody starts from the same point in life shouldn't make us give up and falsely believe we are powerless, it should inspire us to do even more.

[Rowls]

And here's a study showing that people who cycle to work have better mental health than those who take other modes of transport.

https://www.ed.ac.uk/news/2024/cycling- ... tal-health

[claptrappers_union]

This is an excellent little podcast worth listening to for 15 minutes. Easy listening but not to ‘Mental Healthy’ though that's some of the topics it covers amongst loads of over things. Perfect to listen to while doing a Mile for Lyle.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/k ... 1577961974

[DAVETHEVICAR]

Brilliant thread as mental health is the most important thing in everyone’s life
Thanks Rowls

[Darnhill Claret]

Just a little add-on to the Rowls post above.

It makes a huge difference to your mental health outlook on life if you can see yourself as a survivor rather than a victim.

[Colburn_Claret]

Speaking as someone who has never suffered from mental health issues, I've grown to believe that part of the issue is an inability to see beyond the problems. Myopia of our troubles just makes them appear larger than they probably are.
This is why I recommend the great outdoors. To walk through the countryside, or over the fells, is a fantastic and healthy way, to review our lives. To see a bigger picture outside of a troubles is a great way of reducing them.
I am happy to bumble about on my own, but there can't be a post code in the country that doesn't have a local walking group. The benefits of fresh air, exercise and companionship can be better than any drug.

Good luck to any who are suffering.

P.S. don't bottle your problems, opening up to a.n.other wont cure your ails, but it will take a massive load of your mind

[Rowls]

This is an excellent little podcast worth listening to for 15 minutes. Easy listening but not to ‘Mental Healthy’ though that's some of the topics it covers amongst loads of over things. Perfect to listen to while doing a Mile for Lyle.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/k ... 1577961974

Thanks for sharing this claptrappers. I'll endeavour to take a look at it.

[ClaretPete001]

The problem with the research Rowls is that it will likely use statistical analysis like effect sizes and standard deviation to manufacture a non-sensical statistical figure.

How do you isolate the variables to establish the link in such a complex arena that includes genetic inheritance, cognitive architecture, social and socio economic circumstances and personal biography?

How do you know that it is lifestyle choices that causes mental health issues and not the other way around...?

That is the problem with your point about what people can and can't control .....! You are making the epistemic Cartesian fallacy that everyone is perfectly rationale and their mental health issues are a failure to behave rationally.

From a research perspective, reducing people's mental health issues to their lifestyle choices is problematic because you cannot make that assumption.

Of course, in an everyday life everyone benefits from better lifestyle choices but whether better lifestyle choice would solve 57 per cent of people's mental health problems I doubt anyone knows.

[Rowls]

The problem with the research Rowls is that it will likely use statistical analysis like effect sizes and standard deviation to manufacture a non-sensical statistical figure.

How do you isolate the variables to establish the link in such a complex arena that includes genetic inheritance, cognitive architecture, social and socio economic circumstances and personal biography?

I'm sure the methodology will be explained by the authors of the study. It was a 9 year study and has been published in a renowned journal. It will be a very dry topic to explore, one that I'm not willing to go into myself but here is the link to what I believe is the original clinical study if you wish to explore it yourself:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s44220-023-00120-1

How do you know that it is lifestyle choices that causes mental health issues and not the other way around...?

The kind of behaviours listed as "virtues" of mental health are neither singularly "cause" or "effect"; they are both. They are more prominent in people with better mental health AND they help to ameliorate or improve your MH. They can become a "virtuous circle" as opposed to a "vicious circle". This much I know. See the scholarly journal article in full for more details.

That is the problem with your point about what people can and can't control .....! You are making the epistemic Cartesian fallacy that everyone is perfectly rationale and their mental health issues are a failure to behave rationally.

Not at all. I'm just pointing out what the latest research is stating. It isn't a case of rational behavour vs irrational behaviour it is simply a case of promoting behaviours that are good for us, rational or otherwise.

People can all of the things listed in the OP.

From a research perspective, reducing people's mental health issues to their lifestyle choices is problematic because you cannot make that assumption.

I'm not sure what this actually means? I'm only circulating the results of the research. Are we mere products of our lifestyle choices? That's a philosophical question that I'm not interested in discussing on this thread. The single purpose of this thread is to post information that will be helpful and useful for people to apply to their own lives in order to ameliorate or improve their mental health.

I don't think anybody is "reducing" anything. They've looked at lifestyle factors and shown that certain lifestyle factors are associated with better mental health.

Of course, in an everyday life everyone benefits from better lifestyle choices but whether better lifestyle choice would solve 57 per cent of people's mental health problems I doubt anyone knows.

Well yes, I questioned how they came up with the figure in the OP but the research is unambiguous and well, they've done the research so they DO know. If you adopt these behaviours it can vastly improve your mental health. Nobody is claiming that "do this and your life will be perfect" or claiming that this amounts to a "cure" for depression. What is being stated is that these things can all help with your mental health enormously. Given that many of them will also improve your physical health there are very few good reasons not to heed the advice and I'm doing my best to share it.

[Rowls]

More promising news:

https://twitter.com/Boenau/status/1748697333276033259

[elwaclaret]

As someone who lost ten years to a mental breakdown… because I just did not ‘get it’ that no matter how hard I tried (outside academia) I was always seen as ‘not bothered’ or ‘not applying’ myself leading to several redundancies it was only when finishing my Masters Degree that I was diagnosed with dyslexia, discalculia, dispraxia and adult ADHD… at the age of 52 and having studied up to and including three universities.

For anyone struggling with depression I would suggest taking the tests available from the Dyslexia society and Autistic Society… both are free and invaluable to suffers in that they both reveal problems and advise the next steps to take (nhs and private help). They have made my condition and life so much more bearable, as I now understand my mind operates to a very high level of intellect, but in a completely different way to what society expects.

As has been said on here there are many reasons for the ‘black dog’ and many have suffered years of torment without being able to find the root cause.. this is definitely a BIG ONE for many mental health suffers.

[Rowls]

There's a study referenced today on the front page of the Telegraph demonstrating that exercise is TWICE as effective as medication in treating depression.

It goes without saying that the this isn't taking into account potential side effects.

What are the side effects of exercise? You'll feel healthier and you will become healthier.

What are the side effects of Prozac and other SSRI medications? They're long and ghastly and you'll have to Google them yourselves.

Look after yourselves everybody and wishing you all a positive and productive day!

[helmclaret]

Not reading The Telegraph would work wonders for anyone’s mental health.

[ecc]

Hello Rowls,

Only just seen your long post.

I will read it through but I'd just like to ask you two questions if I may:

a) Have you ever spent time in or visited a psychiatric clinic?

b) Do you believe depression-related suicide can be drastically reduced if everybody follows your advice?

[Westleigh]

So if a mess up on the first 4 and I’ve watched the Clarets for 67 yrs through ups and downs,is there any hope for me ?

[Westleigh]

Sorry if that was a flippant post.

[helmclaret]

There's a study referenced today on the front page of the Telegraph demonstrating that exercise is TWICE as effective as medication in treating depression.

It goes without saying that the this isn't taking into account potential side effects.

What are the side effects of exercise? You'll feel healthier and you will become healthier.

What are the side effects of Prozac and other SSRI medications? They're long and ghastly and you'll have to Google them yourselves.

Look after yourselves everybody and wishing you all a positive and productive day!

I know people who have taken medication for 18 -24 months for depression and it’s literally saved their life and given them a new start.

[Rowls]

Hello Rowls,

Only just seen your long post.

I will read it through but I'd just like to ask you two questions if I may:

a) Have you ever spent time in or visited a psychiatric clinic?

b) Do you believe depression-related suicide can be drastically reduced if everybody follows your advice?

Hi Ecc

Thank you for your curiously specific questions.

I'll answer them on the understanding that you reveal why you've asked them. Obviously I can't hold you to it but hope you'll share your thinking with us.

Here's my answers.

a) Yes.
b) I don't know. The studies I've either signposted (posting links to articles about scientific papers) all make their own claims. It's not me making the claims, I'm just highlighting the studies and making people here aware of them. I've pointedly not made assumptions like I'd have in order to give you an answer to your question because that wasn't the point of the thread.

Hope that satisfies your curious curiosity.

I would like to add that it is very tiresome to be subjected to these kind of interrogative questions. The motivation often seems to be to undermine me or to tempt my via a leading question into saying something daft. Along the lines of, "Ah-ha! Here you are pontificating on mental health yet you don't even do night shifts in psychiatric clinics!" or "So you really think that going for a jog will help somebody having psychotic episode!"

Sorry if this isn't the kind of motivation that lies behind your curiously specific questioning, but it comes across that way.

I'm very happy to reveal my motivation for posting on this subject and specifically starting this thread: it's something that interests me and something I care about.

Only very recently in this country the prevalent theory on depression was that it was when your brain "went wrong" and had a chemical imbalance. Surprise surprise, the big pharmaceutical companies had a cure for this. This theory is still prevalent in many countries, notably the USA.

However, despite it's prevalence, this model of depression has been thoroughly trounced. In short, it is bunkum.

SSRI drugs are only marginally better than placebos at primary biding any relief. They have ZERO long term benefit.

However 8.6 million adults in the UK are currently prescribed antidepressants. Around 2 million have been taking them for 5 years or more.

There is no evidence for the long term effect of SSRIs. When the "brain gone wrong" theory gained traction 40 odd years ago, we didn't have the evidence we now do about the long term uselessness of these drugs and we didn't have the research showing beyond doubt how well lifestyle factors can help maintain good mental health.

There are a few differences between the "brain gone wrong" theory and the lifestyle approach to maintaining good mental health aside from their effectiveness. One of them is that big pharmaceutical companies make millions pushing SSRIs but they make nothing if people manage their mental health by improving their lifestyle factors.

Another difference we could touch upon the problem of side effects. The side effects of SSRIs are far and wide reaching. They're publicly available for everybody interested to research with a quick internet search.

An additional huge problem that arose when the "brain gone wrong" theory gained prominence was that it perversely incentivised people not to address the problems in their lives that could have actually been the cause of their depression or mental health problems. After all, if the "chemical imbalance" inside your brain is getting "fixed" by some happy little pills, then why bother losing weight, addressing your unhappiness in work, fixing your relationships etc etc?

Back when the "brain gone wrong" theory first came to precedence it appeared ostensibly sound: new technology allowed us to see the difference between healthy people and the brains of people. However the evidence we have now, amassed mainly over the past 20 years, all points in a single direction: the "brain gone wrong" theory is wrong.

The more evidence we amass, the more we understand just how important lifestyle factors are in maintaing good mental health.

This thread is to help promote this good news: that we can exercise large degrees of control over our mental health just as we can with our physical health. It's perfectly simple and intuitive when you think about it isn't it? If you do physical activity you stay physically stronger. If you maintain good mental health habits (see the OP) you stay mentally stronger.

Imagine for yourself that i'd started a thread promoting physical health - let's imagine I post workouts to build your leg muscles. Would you have asked me if I'd (a) ever been in a trauma ward or (b) do I believe that broken legs can be prevented if people follow "my advice" (sic).

I doubt you would have asked these questions. Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick here but I want this to be a thread that promotes good mental health habits and I'd like to stomp on it being a kind of "let's interrogate rowls and try and trip him up" affair. There's still a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding out there owing to the prevalence of the "brain gone wrong" theory.

To clarify what I've posted a few times: this isn't about "my" opinions. I'm posting links to articles published in reputable scientific journals and to articles referencing studies published in scientific journals.

[Rowls]

I know people who have taken medication for 18 -24 months for depression and it’s literally saved their life and given them a new start.

That's good to hear.

There can be some small short term benefit to taking these drugs. You should seek the advice of a GP on this matter.

However, there is no scientifically proven long term benefit.

As pleasing as it is to hear that your friends have been helped, we shouldn't promote the anecdotal over the scientific.

[Rowls]

The Telegraph is behind a paywall but here's an LBC story on the study showing exercise is twice as effective at treating depression than pills.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/exercise-twi ... udy-finds/

[Swizzlestick]

Your article also says this:

“But Professor Michael Bloomfield, consultant psychiatrist at UCL, said that while the paper adds to existing evidence about the benefits of exercise to depression, it's not possible to say yet if "exercise on its own is better than existing treatments including medication and psychological therapies".

"When people experience more severe forms of depression simply offering exercise may not be completely helpful, for example, when someone is struggling to get out of bed let alone get to the gym.

"Depression is often caused by a range of factors and it is more helpful to think about the pros and cons of a range of treatments including medication, talking therapy and exercise, that can be offered to patients, rather than an unhelpful division of medication vs. talking therapy vs. exercise."

[stateofthenation]

https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/self-h ... -wellbeing

Hopefully this link will work. If not someone can do the honours.

[Rowls]

Your article also says this:

“But Professor Michael Bloomfield, consultant psychiatrist at UCL, said that while the paper adds to existing evidence about the benefits of exercise to depression, it's not possible to say yet if "exercise on its own is better than existing treatments including medication and psychological therapies".

"When people experience more severe forms of depression simply offering exercise may not be completely helpful, for example, when someone is struggling to get out of bed let alone get to the gym.

"Depression is often caused by a range of factors and it is more helpful to think about the pros and cons of a range of treatments including medication, talking therapy and exercise, that can be offered to patients, rather than an unhelpful division of medication vs. talking therapy vs. exercise."

And I wouldn't disagree with a word of that.

But perhaps this is a good time to draw a distinction between treating depression from a clinical perspective and promoting good mental health.

[helmclaret]

That's good to hear.

There can be some small short term benefit to taking these drugs. You should seek the advice of a GP on this matter.

However, there is no scientifically proven long term benefit.

As pleasing as it is to hear that your friends have been helped, we shouldn't promote the anecdotal over the scientific.

Getting people back to ‘normal’ is an incredibly powerful long term benefit.

[Rowls]

Getting people back to ‘normal’ is an incredibly powerful long term benefit.

Well, yes. Obviously it is. Nobody would surely argue otherwise?

As I've stated just above, it's always heartening to know if people have been helped

However as also stated above, we want to draw the distinction between promoting good mental health habits and people offering clinical advice beyond what can be seen in a scientific study.