TRAFFORD

[Jamesy]

Just watched it on MOTD. Trafford can’t claim the cross as it’s dropping onto the Fulham player until a BFC player muscles him out. It then bounces across the six yard box to Assignon who lets it roll out, thinking it’s a goal kick.

I didn’t watch MOTD as I said but from my seat in the Bob Lord if Trafford had reacted earlier and come and claimed it the corner would not have happened.
Anyway if people want to spend time analysing situations to try and defend Trafford then crack on. We all have different views and mine is that Trafford isn’t good enough.
Not even sure he will be good enough for the Championship next season either.

[SalisburyClaret]

So is Odobert allowed to catch the ball now ?

He was marking their scorer and instead of competing or blocking, he let him get away.
Why any of our defensive coaches think it’s a good idea to use Odobert as a defender is another question

[Darthlaw]

Trafford and Assignon both let it go. Doesn't matter much as conceding a corner shouldn't be a big deal, it's just unfortunate that we can't defend them.

Nothing Trafford could do about the first goal either. The second however he was dreadful for.

I don’t get why he’s dreadful though.

He’s middle of his box when the cultured hoof is put over the top from Fulham and Ekdal is running in slo-mo. The Fulham player makes the touch outside the box - so Trafford couldn’t come and take all. If he backs off the Fulham player gets a wider target to aim at.

For me, the second Vitinho plays the Fulham lad onside, it’s a goal unless it’s hit straight at the GK which PL strikers don’t often tend to do.

[StayingDown4Ever]

IMG_0033.jpeg

Just for those claiming how Trafford should have come collected the first, here is the pic with the corner mid flight (the smudge near the touch line) a millisecond before where it finished up on Paulinha’s head (circled in red).

For clarity, Westleigh:


And Cryerbfc:


No agendas here then.

Just looking at that photo - it really is incredible we seem to struggle clearing the danger from corners when we have what looks to be NINE of our players inside the six yard box.

[daveisaclaret]

I don’t get why he’s dreadful though.

The rest of us are left to determine if you really don't get it or if you're pretending, as it was very obvious.

[Darthlaw]

Anyway if people want to spend time analysing situations to try and defend Trafford then crack on.

Personally I’ll only analyze where our players take criticism based on folk who are making things up (Westleigh and his ‘only two olayers’ comment).

Fwiw, I don’t know whether he’ll be good enough for the Championship and seen as the PL have now set the precedent of GK’s being allowed to be manhandled (see Evertons goal yesterday) I’m sure we’re about to see lots of set piece goals conceded by all teams for the rest of the season.

What I will say is I hope he gets a settled defence to work with. That was our 14th different back four combination this season.

[1914tyrone]

IMG_0033.jpeg

Just for those claiming how Trafford should have come collected the first, here is the pic with the corner mid flight (the smudge near the touch line) a millisecond before where it finished up on Paulinha’s head (circled in red).

For clarity, Westleigh:


And Cryerbfc:


No agendas here then.

It's the cross that led to the corner, that was really a dolly of a take he should have claimed, not the actual corner!!!!

[Darthlaw]

The rest of us are left to determine if you really don't get it or if you're pretending, as it was very obvious.

I give my rationale, some give mistruths and you give hyperbole.

I’m not saying he wasn’t at fault, just asking why it was dreadful given the circumstances.

[CryerBFC]

Trafford didn’t claim the ball for their 1st because there were 2 forwards and 3 defenders in front of him and his arms would need to be 6 foot longer to get anywhere near the ball.

The defence are told what positions to adopt for corners - Odobert didn’t do his job.

In my opinion, he could have claimed the ball from the initial cross.

We can say what we like about who’s doing their jobs too, but should Odobert really be marking such a strong midfielder like Paulhinha? We seem do a hybrid zonal/man to man on defending corners and it’s clearly not working, we need our strongest defenders/headers paired up with the oppositions biggest threats, and the rest pick up smaller players/space.

That set piece coach is stealing a living.

[StayingDown4Ever]

Fwiw, I don’t know whether he’ll be good enough for the Championship and seen as the PL have now set the precedent of GK’s being allowed to be manhandled (see Evertons goal yesterday) I’m sure we’re about to see lots of set piece goals conceded by all teams for the rest of the season.

Agreed. It’s highly alarming we have spent £19,000,000 on a player who is not only not good enough for this league but might yet not even be good enough for the one below it where we are heading.

[Darthlaw]

IMG_0034.jpeg (1.03 MiB) Viewed 1140 times

2

It's the cross that led to the corner, that was really a dolly of a take he should have claimed, not the actual corner!!!!

This ‘Dolly’ off a deflected cross onto the Fulham player ( credit to O’Shea for outmuscling him, btw).

[alwaysaclaret]

He was marking their scorer and instead of competing or blocking, he let him get away.
Why any of our defensive coaches think it’s a good idea to use Odobert as a defender is another question

I agree, and there was also 4 player's at the back with their feet glued to the floor and static, making no attempt to track the scorer and marking zones as usual, but still none of that excuses Trafford.

[Jamesy]

It's the cross that led to the corner, that was really a dolly of a take he should have claimed, not the actual corner!!!!

That’s what I have been trying to tell him!

[Jamesy]

IMG_0034.jpeg2

This ‘Dolly’ off a deflected cross onto the Fulham player ( credit to O’Shea for outmuscling him, btw).

If you play it back a few frames you will see Trafford had an age to come for this high ball. You are showing what happened a fraction later because he didn’t do this.
I sat in the stand just past the half way line. I know what I saw with my own eyes.
Having said that, we should have dealt with the resulting corner better.

[Darthlaw]

Sorry, but I don’t see it.

Whipped, deflected cross onto the head of a man marked opposition player (Which he anticipated correctly O’Shea would deal with). It’s not the ‘Dolly’ it’s being made out to be.

Even then the point is Assignon can hoof it for a throw in at worst but acknowledging that wouldn’t help the anti Trafford brigade, would it?

[Rileybobs]

Don’t think so? Trafford didn’t come to claim it so one of our players had to concede a corner.
Can’t remember who and I didn’t watch MOTD when I got home as I didn’t want reminding of it.
See Cryer BFC post a bit further up and you will understand what happened.

At the time I thought Trafford should have claimed the deflected cross across the six yard box, but having watched back on MOTD last night it’s pretty clear that the cross wasn’t there to be claimed. Assignon for some strange reason shielded the ball out, a blot on an otherwise good debut, and a mistake that someone like Vitinho or O’Shea would no doubt have been hammered for.

I thought we needed a new keeper in the summer but it’s hard to make a case that Trafford was the player we needed. He’s a good all round keeper and I think he’s got a good career ahead, but it’s looking like we needed more experience in the sticks, although this isn’t unique to the GK spot.

I still think he’s comfortably our best goalkeeper though and therein lies the problem. I don’t see any benefit in dropping him for Muric.

[Jamesy]

Sorry, but I don’t see it.

Whipped, deflected cross onto the head of a man marked opposition player (Which he anticipated correctly O’Shea would deal with). It’s not the ‘Dolly’ it’s being made out to be.

Even then the point is Assignon can hoof it for a throw in at worst but acknowledging that wouldn’t help the anti Trafford brigade, would it?

Ok mate. If you can’t see it fair enough. As I said I was sat very near it and I know what I saw. Not good enough.

[Westleigh]

Ok mate. If you can’t see it fair enough. As I said I was sat very near it and I know what I saw. Not good enough.

Just run the relay back slowly he’d loads of time to catch the first cross .

[Leisure]

Agreed. It’s highly alarming we have spent £19,000,000 on a player who is not only not good enough for this league but might yet not even be good enough for the one below it where we are heading.

Now you're really getting silly!

[Shaggy]

Look at traffords starting position he’s well behind the goal line because he’s allowed himself to be bullied out of the way.

And the ball went directly over his head which he failed to react too. That’s slow speed of thought. He should be anticipating that header as the corner is swing in. It’s not like it was rifles past him with great pace. It’s not so much as a mistake but a should do better.

The 2nd goal was unforgivable and was a mistake. He had a choice to make close down or back off and did neither as he was frozen like a rabbit in the headlights.

If I’m paying £19m for a goalkeeper I’m expecting him to do better in these circumstances.

His uncertainty causes uncertainty in the back line as they don’t know whether to push up or drop off because they are not sure the keeper is in Control of his area. It’s plain to see. Everyone can see it.

No one is purposely having a pop at Trafford. He is getting criticised for things he does and doesn’t do and people expect better.

We could have signed Butland for a 1/4 of the cost of Trafford. Butland isn’t an Elite keeper but he is
Many levels above Trafford, and was far better than Trafford was at his age aswell. I do not get it him with at all. There is not 1 thing which stands out about him. Another academy player like the last great hype Bazunu.

[Shaggy]

Now you're really getting silly!

Why he hasn’t proven himself at any level above league 1.

He’s sank in the EPL this season. Easily one of the weakest keepers in the league.

[Rileybobs]

No one is purposely having a pop at Trafford.

Unfortunately this is a lie.

[THEWELLERNUT70]

As a keeper you can't afford to dither, especially not in this league, Trafford is a ditherer with virtually anything that isn't a reflex action. He needs to cut the clutter out of his head and be more decisive

[Leisure]

Why he hasn’t proven himself at any level above league 1.

He’s sank in the EPL this season. Easily one of the weakest keepers in the league.

He would have a bit of a job proving himself above League 1 level seeing as he hasn't played at a higher level other than for us. Obviously being England U21 keeper doesn't count for you!

[Darthlaw]

Look at traffords starting position he’s well behind the goal line because he’s allowed himself to be bullied out of the way.

See Everton’s goal vs Tottenham yesterday or Luton’s goal vs us.

The PL have set a precedent that players can bully the GK as much as they want now with zero recompense.

[Robbie_painter]

Some of the comments on this board are a disgrace,I genuinely don’t know any Burnley fans that think like some of you morons on here.Give the lad a break ffs and get behind him,its hardly his fault that VK signed him and is standing by him.One of you even tried blaming him for Rodri’s goal at city which is more than laughable.

[Hedontplayforyou]

Not reading through the lot of this but the defending and challenge in the middle of the park were shambolic but for me Trafford also has to do better , reminiscent of the Billing one he should simply do better.

[Big Vinny K]

Look at traffords starting position he’s well behind the goal line because he’s allowed himself to be bullied out of the way.

And the ball went directly over his head which he failed to react too. That’s slow speed of thought. He should be anticipating that header as the corner is swing in. It’s not like it was rifles past him with great pace. It’s not so much as a mistake but a should do better.

The 2nd goal was unforgivable and was a mistake. He had a choice to make close down or back off and did neither as he was frozen like a rabbit in the headlights.

If I’m paying £19m for a goalkeeper I’m expecting him to do better in these circumstances.

His uncertainty causes uncertainty in the back line as they don’t know whether to push up or drop off because they are not sure the keeper is in Control of his area. It’s plain to see. Everyone can see it.

No one is purposely having a pop at Trafford. He is getting criticised for things he does and doesn’t do and people expect better.

We could have signed Butland for a 1/4 of the cost of Trafford. Butland isn’t an Elite keeper but he is
Many levels above Trafford, and was far better than Trafford was at his age aswell. I do not get it him with at all. There is not 1 thing which stands out about him. Another academy player like the last great hype Bazunu.

You are talking (as you always do) utter sh-ite.
The first goal our defenders are beaten at the front post and it also takes a deflection. To say it’s not coming in at pace is just plain stupid.

The second goal we were clearly found out for pace - as we were on numerous times in the first half. There was a large element of luck to the Fulham pass as there is no way he knew where it was going - but to be honest it didn’t really have to be that accurate in the first half. They just had to hit it somewhere over our centre backs and chase it and they had a chance of scoring.

Trafford had to be off his line because he was covering for our defence all the time - there was no hesitation. He simply got lobbed because our defence got caught - he could not have been much higher up unless you think he should be challenging for the header now.

In the second half he made a number of good saves to stop it going 3-0 as Fulham dominated us. Without that we don’t pick up a point.

I have no problem criticising Trafford when he makes mistakes (though this board this season is way over the top) but some posters on this board - and you are very clearly one of them - every time we concede seem to find a way of blaming Trafford and don’t even mention the other players who actually made the mistakes.

It’s embarrassing

[Jamesy]

Some of the comments on this board are a disgrace,I genuinely don’t know any Burnley fans that think like some of you morons on here.Give the lad a break ffs and get behind him,its hardly his fault that VK signed him and is standing by him.One of you even tried blaming him for Rodri’s goal at city which is more than laughable.

Disgrace? It’s a messageboard for people to air their views. We have all watched a game yesterday and are discussing our team’s shortcomings as well as the things we did well.
Yes VK did sign him and is standing by him. Commendable. However, this doesn’t mean he is beyond constructive criticism. Vincent too.

[Shaggy]

See Everton’s goal vs Tottenham yesterday or Luton’s goal vs us.

The PL have set a precedent that players can bully the GK as much as they want now with zero recompense.

That’s how it should be, in which instance the keeper needs to be stronger. We have a weakling in the nets

[Leisure]

Disgrace? It’s a messageboard for people to air their views. We have all watched a game yesterday and are discussing our team’s shortcomings as well as the things we did well.
Yes VK did sign him and is standing by him. Commendable. However, this doesn’t mean he is beyond constructive criticism. Vincent too.

Yes but it's not just yesterday, it's after every game and every goal!

[Jamesy]

Yes but it's not just yesterday, it's after every game and every goal!

Of course it is. There wouldn’t be much content on this messageboard if it wasn’t.

[Shaggy]

He would have a bit of a job proving himself above League 1 level seeing as he hasn't played at a higher level other than for us. Obviously being England U21 keeper doesn't count for you!

U21 football is completely different, it’s nowhere near as physical or fast.

That is the whole point he’s an academy player who’s only played at the highest league 1. He needed tested at the championship first before even being considered as a number 1 in the EPL. He’s another Bazunu, getting drowned in the EPL.

[Swizzlestick]

I think a lot want to see him being given a break - from the first team. He isn’t ready. He hasn’t been all season. It’s totally derailed our style, he has limited presence, he’s not great on crosses, he’s not communicative, he erases all tempo from the game, he doesn’t instil confidence in the defence and he’s not great at distributing. Could he be ready in a few years time and does he have talent? Absolutely. But he should have been playing in the Championship this season to develop not as our first choice in the Premier League.

[Darthlaw]

That’s how it should be, in which instance the keeper needs to be stronger. We have a weakling in the nets

Clearly you didn’t see the goal v Spuds.

Keeper in the air collecting the cross till the scouse shoved him from under it.

If you want a free for all where oppo players can obstruct or just plain foul GK’s (American football style) then fair enough. I don’t think you really want that, though.

[StayingDown4Ever]

You are talking (as you always do) utter sh-ite.
The first goal our defenders are beaten at the front post and it also takes a deflection. To say it’s not coming in at pace is just plain stupid.

The second goal we were clearly found out for pace - as we were on numerous times in the first half. There was a large element of luck to the Fulham pass as there is no way he knew where it was going - but to be honest it didn’t really have to be that accurate in the first half. They just had to hit it somewhere over our centre backs and chase it and they had a chance of scoring.

Trafford had to be off his line because he was covering for our defence all the time - there was no hesitation. He simply got lobbed because our defence got caught - he could not have been much higher up unless you think he should be challenging for the header now.

In the second half he made a number of good saves to stop it going 3-0 as Fulham dominated us. Without that we don’t pick up a point.

I have no problem criticising Trafford when he makes mistakes (though this board this season is way over the top) but some posters on this board - and you are very clearly one of them - every time we concede seem to find a way of blaming Trafford and don’t even mention the other players who actually made the mistakes.

It’s embarrassing

No hesitation? You literally see him charge out, hesitate then back pedal before being humiliated with the lob.

It’s you who is embarrassing yourself, just like Trafford did.

[Darthlaw]

If he’s off his line he gets lobbed, if he backs off he gives the oppo a bigger target by not closing the angles and gets slated for not coming for it.

Meanwhile, Vitinho gets a free pass for being 3 yards beyond the back line playing the Fulham lad on because (you know) Trafford’s fault.

[Big Vinny K]

I think a lot want to see him being given a break - from the first team. He isn’t ready. He hasn’t been all season. It’s totally derailed our style, he has limited presence, he’s not great on crosses, he’s not communicative, he erases all tempo from the game, he doesn’t instil confidence in the defence and he’s not great at distributing. Could he be ready in a few years time and does he have talent? Absolutely. But he should have been playing in the Championship this season to develop not as our first choice in the Premier League.

Wouldn’t disagree with much of that but the criticism he has faced from some posters this year is just pathetic. It’s bordering on obsessive how things are fabricated to try and blame him for every goal.

I agree that inexperience and the way he distributes the ball has had a big negative impact to our results. Muric distributes the ball better, quicker and with more pace on the ball. That’s the difference for me between 2 otherwise very similar keepers - but it’s enough to play Muric because that style of player is so fundamental to us.

Shot stopping, commanding the area (or lack of it), catching the ball - both keepers are very similar. And tbh both not good enough (yet) but we have been blessed with some of the best keepers in our history recently so our expectations are probably a bit high.

I don’t think there are that many goals this season which are directly attributable to Trafford - no more than a lot of the keepers in the league. But I would say that indirectly he is contributing to a number of the goals conceded together with a combination of consistently poor defending and ridiculous team selection from VK.

[Robbie_painter]

No hesitation? You literally see him charge out, hesitate then back pedal before being humiliated with the lob.

It’s you who is embarrassing yourself, just like Trafford did.

You embarrass yourself with virtually ever post,I can’t understand why people keep biting and taking you on.

[SalisburyClaret]

Just imagine if he’d come on a free transfer - he’d be the best keeper in England.

[Big Vinny K]

No hesitation? You literally see him charge out, hesitate then back pedal before being humiliated with the lob.

It’s you who is embarrassing yourself, just like Trafford did.

It’s not surprising coming from you.
What you are saying to use your poor grammar is “literally” a lie.
Show me the video where he “charges out”.
He is stood around 15 yards off his line - nothing whatsoever unusual about that.
They play an up an under over the top and the player is through after outpacing our defence and Trafford knows that he is susceptible to being lobbed so try’s to run back.
They are just facts.

So either back up what you are saying with video evidence or STFU please.

[JimmyRobbo]

Muric might not be the answer but he couldn't do any worse. We needed a better keeper for the money spent on Trafford that's the issue!
Trafford positioning on both goals was questionable but it was also the defences fault too, both were at fault.
Nothing stranger than your first four quotes, you suggested nothing to prove I was wrong

Thank you.

Your opinion is valued.

[Quickenthetempo]

Just imagine if he’d come on a free transfer - he’d be the best keeper in England.

Take money out of it as nobody truly knows the structure of the deal.
Where would you rank Trafford out of all the Premier league clubs keepers.

1 to 20?

[Jamesy]

Wouldn’t disagree with much of that but the criticism he has faced from some posters this year is just pathetic. It’s bordering on obsessive how things are fabricated to try and blame him for every goal.

I agree that inexperience and the way he distributes the ball has had a big negative impact to our results. Muric distributes the ball better, quicker and with more pace on the ball. That’s the difference for me between 2 otherwise very similar keepers - but it’s enough to play Muric because that style of player is so fundamental to us.

Shot stopping, commanding the area (or lack of it), catching the ball - both keepers are very similar. And tbh both not good enough (yet) but we have been blessed with some of the best keepers in our history recently so our expectations are probably a bit high.

I don’t think there are that many goals this season which are directly attributable to Trafford - no more than a lot of the keepers in the league. But I would say that indirectly he is contributing to a number of the goals conceded together with a combination of consistently poor defending and ridiculous team selection from VK.

The last line of your post illustrates the problem. “ridiculous team selection from VK”.
If you had also mentioned questionable signings in the same sentence you would have hit the nail on the head.

[Big Vinny K]

The last line of your post illustrates the problem. “ridiculous team selection from VK”.
If you had also mentioned questionable signings in the same sentence you would have hit the nail on the head.

Yep agree. But let’s be honest since VK arrived and he has signed the best part of 40 players how many of them would many of our supporters know much about ? And even those that profess to be experts on overseas players you would still have a question mark on their ability to do it in England…..so effectively nearly all of our signings have been “questionable” in some way or other.

Obviously I don’t think there is a fan who would disagree that we have the balance of our signings badly wrong this season which puts us on the back foot from the off as soon as the inevitable injuries start to happen in the key positions we did not strengthen (and actually went into the season a lot weaker).

But all that said you end up where you are every Saturday or Sunday when it comes to selecting the team and during the game when you are making substitutes. And it’s these decisions that have been pretty baffling almost every single week this season.

Bringing on the likes of Tresor and Ramsay in games when we need to sure things up. Ignoring and freezing out some of the lads who were brilliant last season. Players playing out of position when we have alternatives in the correct position….etc etc

So many baffling decisions that you walk into the ground and most of our supporters are already shaking their heads !!

[Leisure]

Take money out of it as nobody truly knows the structure of the deal.
Where would you rank Trafford out of all the Premier league clubs keepers.

1 to 20?

And similarly Muric.

[Big Vinny K]

Take money out of it as nobody truly knows the structure of the deal.
Where would you rank Trafford out of all the Premier league clubs keepers.

1 to 20?

I’d say that both him and Muric are 18th or 19th.
Funnily enough just like our position in the league.

[Quickenthetempo]

And similarly Muric.

He can if he wants, but you can't rate him on any Prem games.

[Jamesy]

He can if he wants, but you can't rate him on any Prem games.

Nice one!

[Big Vinny K]

He can if he wants, but you can't rate him on any Prem games.

He’s played games against Premier League teams.
Irrespective of course you can have an opinion on him as a keeper against the other PL keepers.
I haven’t played a PL game but I am very confident I would be 20th !!

If Muric didn’t command his area in the championship and flapped at crosses etc he isn’t all of a sudden going to become Nick Pope in the PL.