Alan Pace - Self made man

[Milltown1882]

Interesting one on the TNT coverage earlier with Matt Smith from TNT saying to Pace that he’s a self made man and it’s his money in the club when talking about this season.

Think the interviewer needed to do a tad more research

[knclaret]

Pace didn’t look happy in the North Stand concourse before the match
His business model is not working

[DCWat]

Pace didn’t look happy in the North Stand concourse before the match
His business model is not working

No milk again?

[Chester Perry]

Interesting one on the TNT coverage earlier with Matt Smith from TNT saying to Pace that he’s a self made man and it’s his money in the club when talking about this season.

Think the interviewer needed to do a tad more research

It is interesting just how deeply and widely this notion is held.

Of course to date there are literally hundreds of people that have put more of their money into the club as capital to be employed than the whole ALK.VSL ownership group combined. A simple perusal of Companies House at the filings of Burnley Football and Athletic Club Limited and Burnley FC Holdings Limited provides the evidence of this

ALK/VSL do hold a record though (and this may well go across the whole English game, and probably much further) no owner has ever borrowed as much as they have from a Football Club.

[CoolClaret]

Mission to Burnley PR job clearly working as intended then

[spt_claret]

It is interesting just how deeply and widely this notion is held.

Of course to date there are literally hundreds of people that have put more of their money into the club as capital to be employed than the whole ALK.VSL ownership group combined. A simple perusal of Companies House at the filings of Burnley Football and Athletic Club Limited and Burnley FC Holdings Limited provides the evidence of this

ALK/VSL do hold a record though (and this may well go across the whole English game, and probably much further) no owner has ever borrowed as much as they have from a Football Club.

That last detail is concerning. But I'm not surprised at this blatantly false puffing up. He's a financier from Wall Street. That type are an expert at being self-made with other people's money, and turning other peoples' money into their money when convenient, and their losses into others'.

Curious also at how quiet this thread is, and the apparent little interest people have in some rather disingenous self-publicity by the club's chairman. Waiting to hear how this is actually Mike Garlick's fault.

[aggi]

It is interesting just how deeply and widely this notion is held.

Of course to date there are literally hundreds of people that have put more of their money into the club as capital to be employed than the whole ALK.VSL ownership group combined. A simple perusal of Companies House at the filings of Burnley Football and Athletic Club Limited and Burnley FC Holdings Limited provides the evidence of this

ALK/VSL do hold a record though (and this may well go across the whole English game, and probably much further) no owner has ever borrowed as much as they have from a Football Club.

Don't the Glazers owe Man Utd about £500m?

[Vegas Claret]

Pace didn’t look happy in the North Stand concourse before the match
His business model is not working

it's 2 years ahead of schedule

[CharlieinNewMexico]

Mission to Burnley PR job clearly working as intended then

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Jakubclaret]

Don't the Glazers owe Man Utd about £500m?

Unfortunately in our case the like for like dynamics are poles apart to our detriment simply put they can take the hit.

[NewClaret]

Pace didn’t look happy in the North Stand concourse before the match
His business model is not working

He was on the longside before the match? I didn’t see him but was late.

Good on him in that case. Hopefully checking out the longside catering shambles.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I will never understand how people like that bloke.

Wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

I will never understand how people like that bloke.

Wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him

Never understand posts like this unless you’ve met him and got to know him and therefore can back it up with some evidence? Also I imagine you wouldn’t be able to throw him far unless you do weights during your 24 hour daily vigil on here.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Never understand posts like this unless you’ve met him and got to know him and therefore can back it up with some evidence? Also I imagine you wouldn’t be able to throw him far unless you do weights during your 24 hour daily vigil on here.

What a stupid post, how many people hate Boris Johnson? Have they ever met him?

You can form an opinion on someone just by there public presence and interviews

[clarethomer]

Typically self made would indicate that they have created wealth themselves rather than inherited or won it through the lottery.

Given that he worked a number of senior roles in some of the world’s biggest financial institutions at the time- I believe that term would be accurate.

Don’t confuse how he bought the club as an indication of his wealth. Debt is leverage to protect wealth and reduce taxes typically.

Likes of Apple use debt rather than their cash reserves as an example.

[Swizzlestick]

What a stupid post, how many people hate Boris Johnson? Have they ever met him?

You can form an opinion on someone just by there public presence and interviews

What have you not liked about his ‘public presence’?

[whiffa]

What a stupid post, how many people hate Boris Johnson? Have they ever met him?

You can form an opinion on someone just by there public presence and interviews

Don't worry, most of us on here have a pretty solid opinion of you.

[South West Claret.]

I will never understand how people like that bloke.

Wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him

I know what you mean and the same might be said about a lot more high profile individuals I expect.

[JR1882]

it's 2 years ahead of schedule

Another load of rubbish he has pedalled, there is absolutely no way that you would risk getting to the third year after which parachute payments run low/end. No matter the state of the squad a club with our financial muscle should 100% be going up first season.

Take parachutes away and file us next to Rovers, with the exception we don’t have owners with bottomless pockets.

[bodge]

Interesting to see Mike Garlick in the Director's box Friday night, first time I've seen him this season.

[South West Claret.]

Interesting to see Mike Garlick in the Director's box Friday night, first time I've seen him this season.

Ah Mr Garlic that’s the fella who denied Sean Dyche the funds to continue Burnley’s remarkable membership of the PL isn’t he?

Resulting in the club’s present position.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Don't worry, most of us on here have a pretty solid opinion of you.

Yep and that proves the point perfectly.

[Chester Perry]

Don't the Glazers owe Man Utd about £500m?

Not how I understood it, but as we all know, I have been wrong before and will likely be again at various points going forward

[FCBurnley]

Only time will tell in the case of Mr Pace. As always simply follow the money

[Chester Perry]

Ah Mr Garlic that’s the fella who denied Sean Dyche the funds to continue Burnley’s remarkable membership of the PL isn’t he?

Resulting in the club’s present position.

there are many ways in which to view the fiscal management under Mike Garlick (I note your derisory spelling, seemingly intend to arouse a suspicion as to his character.

one would be to note that he never overextended the financial liabilities at the club, even while running a cost of football at the club at over 90% of revenue (that is wages plus amortisation) something that UEFA and the Premier League from next season would find in breach of PSR. Those rules are only catching up with the situation in football were revenues are precarious for most, hence all the arguments we see about distributions. It could be said that Garlick/the club was already stretching itself to the sustainable limits. Ours appears to be the only club in English football that got through the Covid crisis with it's own monies (no loans or share issues) there were only small losses posted in that period and most of those can be attributed to interest paid by the club resulting from the new owners debt with MSD.

Yes Mike Garlick (and everyone who has sold their shares) has done very well from the sale of the club (at this time I can think of no other owner who has made a greater multiple of his investment from a sale of a club, the Glazers will eventually when they sell up completely, though that will be over a much longer time frame. Under his tenure the club became sustainable, rid itself of debt and was developing its infrastructure from its own monies (much of what has been spent under the new ownership on infrastructure was planned and provided for with set aside monies under Garlick's tenure.

I still maintain that the summer of 2020 appeared all set for a significant squad refresh (when you look at the accounts -cash in hand, amortisation drop and level of transfer debt - and combine it with the number of players at the end of their contracts before Covid rewrote the plan. There would have been both cash for incomings and space in the wage bill for significant additions, a situation that was not apparent before, mainly as a result of the lack of significant sales in the previous two years. The reasons for that circumstance are not in the public domain, so we work with what is.

Did Mike Garlick know about the MSD loan? almost certainly, though it appears the others didn't until very late in the day.

Did Mike Garlick know about the immediate £23m loan from the club to make the down payment on the takeover? again almost certainly, though we were all led to believe that ALK/VSL were going to quickly flip some holding in their group to cover those and the remaining monies to complete the takeover - that turned out to be a much longer process than almost everyone thought it would be

Did the outflow of cash from the club under the new owners impact our capabilities in the transfer market? the numbers are significant, around £40m in the first year of ownership and a possibly greater number in the second. Signings that were made were greatly aided by the transfer debt liability being erased by Garlick

Was the manager confident with the transfer policy under the new ownership? There is plenty to suggest that Mike Garlick brought players into the club that Dyche didn't believe in, though there was an evident need for numbers when they occurred and from an accounting and economic circumstances standpoint limited funds available. There is also a strong suspicion that signings under ALK/VSL were not all the preferred options of Sean Dyche.

so you stick with your simple beliefs if you choose, but there is much in life that is far more complicated and the financial management of the club under Mike Garlick's final years is just another such example.

[AlargeClaret]

I will never understand how people like that bloke.

Wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him

Surely with Alan’s stature ,even the weakest of weaklings would be able to hurl the pint sized preacher around 10 yards ? Thus making your point invalid . It’s a little known fact that during his uni days ,a frequently skint Alan would be fired from a cannon at weekends just to make ends meet .

[BurnleyBob]

Burnley FC must be very highly geared (debt to equity ratio). High gearing is fine when debt can be fairly comfortably serviced thanks either to low interest rates or strong predictable revenues. Football in general does not provide predictable revenues. As a result Burnley's buying spree in the summer was, one assumes, to have the ability to sell some of these 'promising players' at a profit to service and pay down debt - especially if the club is relegated. The result of this policy has been to break up the winning spirit in last year's team and to take us to our current position.

[aggi]

Not how I understood it, but as we all know, I have been wrong before and will likely be again at various points going forward

Pretty sure I saw that in an Athletic article recently, will have a look.

They had to shift the funds for the LBO somehow.

[Pickles]

it's 2 years ahead of schedule

Do you really believe that? It's spin to keep expectations manageable, to give ALK and Kompany some breathing space, and to encourage underdog mentality.

ALK bought a Premier League club. The business model relies on the investment and publicity only the Premier League can provide.

There's no way someone like Vincent Kompany stays in the Championship for three or four years, absolutely no way whatsoever.

I've never believed the plan from day dot. Mission To Burnley shows that getting back to the Premier League as soon as possible is/was hugely important. Employing Kompany confirms it.

[randomclaret2]

Surely with Alan’s stature ,even the weakest of weaklings would be able to hurl the pint sized preacher around 10 yards ? Thus making your point invalid . It’s a little known fact that during his uni days ,a frequently skint Alan would be fired from a cannon at weekends just to make ends meet .

[Cooclaret]

What a stupid post, how many people hate Boris Johnson? Have they ever met him?

You can form an opinion on someone just by there public presence and interviews

You can, but you obviously see that that’s a public image and forms a part of a larger picture. So to form an option on based on half the picture would be ludicrous.

[Cooclaret]

Yep and that proves the point perfectly.

And yet you’re suggesting that you don’t like him based on the same logic.

Seems incredibly flawed to me

[Paul Waine]

I've just now posted this on the MMT thread. Think it is also relevant here.

Sunday Times, interview with Chris Heck, President of Business Operations (appointed May 2023), Aston Villa.

An interesting (full page) article. Another American involved in running a Premier League club. Lot's of Heck's objectives for Aston Villa could just as easily be Alan Pace's and ALK's objectives for Burnley.

Aston Villa’s Chris Heck: We want to be in the Premier League’s top tier’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a975 ... fdf13c6f34

Enjoy.

UTC

[ClaretTony]

I've just now posted this on the MMT thread. Think it is also relevant here.

Sunday Times, interview with Chris Heck, President of Business Operations (appointed May 2023), Aston Villa.

An interesting (full page) article. Another American involved in running a Premier League club. Lot's of Heck's objectives for Aston Villa could just as easily be Alan Pace's and ALK's objectives for Burnley.

Aston Villa’s Chris Heck: We want to be in the Premier League’s top tier’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a975 ... fdf13c6f34

Enjoy.

UTC

That link doesn’t work for me

[ClaretTony]

This one works but it’s behind a paywall

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/asto ... -qnlzqlwcs

[Vegas Claret]

That link doesn’t work for me

https://archive.ph/vqGVG

[ClaretTony]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/asto ... -qnlzqlwcs

Posted that link above but it’s a paywall so I can’t read it and assume most won’t be able to.

[Vegas Claret]

Posted that link above but it’s a paywall so I can’t read it and assume most won’t be able to.

yeah I saw that myself so used the archive page, and edited the link above

[Paul Waine]

That link doesn’t work for me

My bad. Copy/paste from MMT thread lost a lot of the detail - the link works on MMT thread.

Now re-copied again direct from the Sunday Times "share" facility - which by-passes the paywall.

Aston Villa’s Chris Heck: We want to be in the Premier League’s top tier’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a975 ... fdf13c6f34

[ClaretPete001]

there are many ways in which to view the fiscal management under Mike Garlick (I note your derisory spelling, seemingly intend to arouse a suspicion as to his character.

one would be to note that he never overextended the financial liabilities at the club, even while running a cost of football at the club at over 90% of revenue (that is wages plus amortisation) something that UEFA and the Premier League from next season would find in breach of PSR. Those rules are only catching up with the situation in football were revenues are precarious for most, hence all the arguments we see about distributions. It could be said that Garlick/the club was already stretching itself to the sustainable limits. Ours appears to be the only club in English football that got through the Covid crisis with it's own monies (no loans or share issues) there were only small losses posted in that period and most of those can be attributed to interest paid by the club resulting from the new owners debt with MSD.

Yes Mike Garlick (and everyone who has sold their shares) has done very well from the sale of the club (at this time I can think of no other owner who has made a greater multiple of his investment from a sale of a club, the Glazers will eventually when they sell up completely, though that will be over a much longer time frame. Under his tenure the club became sustainable, rid itself of debt and was developing its infrastructure from its own monies (much of what has been spent under the new ownership on infrastructure was planned and provided for with set aside monies under Garlick's tenure.

I still maintain that the summer of 2020 appeared all set for a significant squad refresh (when you look at the accounts -cash in hand, amortisation drop and level of transfer debt - and combine it with the number of players at the end of their contracts before Covid rewrote the plan. There would have been both cash for incomings and space in the wage bill for significant additions, a situation that was not apparent before, mainly as a result of the lack of significant sales in the previous two years. The reasons for that circumstance are not in the public domain, so we work with what is.

Did Mike Garlick know about the MSD loan? almost certainly, though it appears the others didn't until very late in the day.

Did Mike Garlick know about the immediate £23m loan from the club to make the down payment on the takeover? again almost certainly, though we were all led to believe that ALK/VSL were going to quickly flip some holding in their group to cover those and the remaining monies to complete the takeover - that turned out to be a much longer process than almost everyone thought it would be

Did the outflow of cash from the club under the new owners impact our capabilities in the transfer market? the numbers are significant, around £40m in the first year of ownership and a possibly greater number in the second. Signings that were made were greatly aided by the transfer debt liability being erased by Garlick

Was the manager confident with the transfer policy under the new ownership? There is plenty to suggest that Mike Garlick brought players into the club that Dyche didn't believe in, though there was an evident need for numbers when they occurred and from an accounting and economic circumstances standpoint limited funds available. There is also a strong suspicion that signings under ALK/VSL were not all the preferred options of Sean Dyche.

so you stick with your simple beliefs if you choose, but there is much in life that is far more complicated and the financial management of the club under Mike Garlick's final years is just another such example.

Chester - if you are going to argue the 'what is' then how do you justify your view that Covid was the factor that led Mike Garlick to abandon the plan to refresh the squad and instead use the cash to fund a leveraged buy out and make himself a pile of cash?

In the 19/20 accounts we had £80 million in the bank. All you can go on is what happened and what happened was a leveraged buy out, which used £47 million (cited in the 20/21 accounts) of the cash to buy shares.

You can argue the 'what isn't' if you like but you can't do it and then say 'the reasons for that circumstance are not in the public domain, so we work with what is'.

It's perfectly plausible it's not in the public domain because you just made it up.

I write this with the usual caveat that I love your posts but you can't have your cake and eat it by advocating the 'what is' and then arguing the 'what isn't....

[ClaretPete001]

My bad. Copy/paste from MMT thread lost a lot of the detail - the link works on MMT thread.

Now re-copied again direct from the Sunday Times "share" facility - which by-passes the paywall.

Aston Villa’s Chris Heck: We want to be in the Premier League’s top tier’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a975 ... fdf13c6f34

I think if I was a betting man I would be putting my money on Newcastle and Middle Eastern money rather than Villa and the American way largely because in the last ten years only one club owned by Americans have won the PL.

For the most part Americans have made a real horlicks of it including at Villa.

[claptrappers_union]

Chester - if you are going to argue the 'what is' then how do you justify your view that Covid was the factor that led Mike Garlick to abandon the plan to refresh the squad and instead use the cash to fund a leveraged buy out and make himself a pile of cash?

If you were selling a house, would you spend loads on redecorating it to your tastes, building an extension and installing a swimming pool, or would you maintain it and make it easier for potential buyers to do their own thing with it?

[Chester Perry]

Chester - if you are going to argue the 'what is' then how do you justify your view that Covid was the factor that led Mike Garlick to abandon the plan to refresh the squad and instead use the cash to fund a leveraged buy out and make himself a pile of cash?

In the 19/20 accounts we had £80 million in the bank. All you can go on is what happened and what happened was a leveraged buy out, which used £47 million (cited in the 20/21 accounts) of the cash to buy shares.

You can argue the 'what isn't' if you like but you can't do it and then say 'the reasons for that circumstance are not in the public domain, so we work with what is'.

It's perfectly plausible it's not in the public domain because you just made it up.

I write this with the usual caveat that I love your posts but you can't have your cake and eat it by advocating the 'what is' and then arguing the 'what isn't....

It is clumsily constructed on review but the thing I was talking about not being in the public domain was the reason for no significant player sales in the prior two seasons, rumours are that Dyche vetoed sales because the club could/would not get him the players he wanted.

[k90bfc]

When He removed,All Of Our Players Portraits,All around Turf Moor,He showed his true colours,which is now coming back on him,No Respect for the past,All for the so called future,Which is not working at all,UTC.

[Nori1958]

When He removed,All Of Our Players Portraits,All around Turf Moor,He showed his true colours,which is now coming back on him,No Respect for the past,All for the so called future,Which is not working at all,UTC.

Were you bothered about the portraits last season?

[BurnleyFC]

Surely with Alan’s stature ,even the weakest of weaklings would be able to hurl the pint sized preacher around 10 yards ? Thus making your point invalid . It’s a little known fact that during his uni days ,a frequently skint Alan would be fired from a cannon at weekends just to make ends meet .

Outstanding

[k90bfc]

YES.

[k90bfc]

They should be put back up,Where they belong,RESPECT,UTC.

[k90bfc]

They should be put back up,Where they belong,RESPECT,UTC.

[ClaretPete001]

It is clumsily constructed on review but the thing I was talking about not being in the public domain was the reason for no significant player sales in the prior two seasons, rumours are that Dyche vetoed sales because the club could/would not get him the players he wanted.

You are still hung by the same petard Chester.

You are arguing rumour and pretty much ignoring what actually happened.