Ref watch on Sky

[MeeActon1]

Peter Bankes is a Liverpool fan.

A few Liverpool forums say exactly the opposite, he’s Everton.

[mdd2]

I cannot see how anyone could not call that as a foul. Surely 1) the lad moves away from the direction of the ball 2) is not within playing distance of the ball 3) makes no attempt to attack the ball 4) moves towards the advancing Trafford 5) then moves his backside into the advancing keeper. This is Association Football NOT American Football.
Maybe having American owners made Bankes think these were NFL rules and it was a fair block!!!!!!!

[Tall Paul]

A few Liverpool forums say exactly the opposite, he’s Everton.

They're wrong.

[MeeActon1]

They're wrong.

Maybe they are, but it makes me feel better after Friday, thinking there was a reason behind his ineptitude.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Bankes has never publicly disclosed which team he supports, as is his right, but he has to disclose loyalty to the PGMOL and he has never reffed a Liverpool or Everton game. I suspect because scousers do have great loyalty to their city and he has rightly declared he wouldn’t be impartial with those teams. The trouble is, direct relegation rivals have just as much scope to be affected.

Contrast to Anthony Taylor who lives near Old Trafford, is an Altrincham fan, and refs Man Utd regularly.

As I said, I do not doubt there is conscious fair play, but subconscious is another matter and hard to prevent - the guilty parties then are PGMOL for not bearing this in mind when allocating crucial fixtures at top or bottom. Not as though there ain’t enough of the refs to choose from.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Rob Jones is Derby fan

Not true. He has reffed Derby games and is part of the Wirral FA. As for Bankes, I put my original post “or a local”. I hail from Liverpool, most families break both ways and hate anyone but themselves slagging off the “other” team. It’s a very territorial place as we know. So lets not distracted from the wider point (subconscious bias).

[Tall Paul]

Imagine thinking a Liverpool fan would want to do Everton any favours, even subconciously

[daveisaclaret]

The football in the Championship is loads worse but at least fans down there can look at bad referees without wondering if man really went to the moon.

[claretandy]

The audio is now available, the ref thinks that Trafford barge's adebayo, unbelievable Jeff! https://www.premierleague.com/news/3859353

[agreenwood]

Watched it. My take from Webb is that the on field decision is probably wrong, but not wrong enough to overturn it.

Welcome to football in 2024.

[bennitor]

The audio is nonsense and shows a total lack of understanding of the game. VAR states Trafford could have jumped for the ball. Trafford was still in his movement phase, positioning himself under the ball getting ready to jump, but he wasn't in the right place to jump and claim it. If he'd jumped at or before the point the Luton player took him out then he would have jumped way too early and missed the ball.

Luton's block takes him out at a point where he still needed to be moving forwards, not upwards.

[South West Claret.]

The audio is now available, the ref thinks that Trafford barge's adebayo, unbelievable Jeff! https://www.premierleague.com/news/3859353

Thanks for that CA as far as I am concerned there’s no foul and it’s a perfectly good goal.

[Leyland Claret]

Webbs response is extremely vague and doesn’t really give an opinion. Even though the AVAR mentions about his take on it it’s instantly glossed over and not taken into consideration. Crap decision in real time and an even worse one after the consultation between the officials

[MDWat]

Watched it. My take from Webb is that the on field decision is probably wrong, but not wrong enough to overturn it.

Welcome to football in 2024.

Exactly this.

[MeeActon1]

Basically it created a talking point and that is what Sky and the Premier League want for their ‘product.’ Clubs like Burnley are collateral damage.

[RVclaret]

The audio is now available, the ref thinks that Trafford barge's adebayo, unbelievable Jeff! https://www.premierleague.com/news/3859353

Wtf is Bankes on about here? Trafford needing to jump? Eh??? Even more clueless than I thought.

[Kilson810]

The audio is now available, the ref thinks that Trafford barge's adebayo, unbelievable Jeff! https://www.premierleague.com/news/3859353

Howard Webb 'don't expect perfection (from VAR and refs)'.

Absolutely no danger we expect that. I don't even expect competence from refs anymore, especially when refereeing our games.

[Goody1975]

Watched it. My take from Webb is that the on field decision is probably wrong, but not wrong enough to overturn it.

Welcome to football in 2024.

The fluff that preceded the implementation of VAR was that it would ensure that the officials would get more of the big decisions correct, now it's we will look at the decisions we've royally ****** up on but not the ones that are just plainly wrong.

At the end of the programme, Brighton are awarded a penalty for a shirt pull and Gillett gets sent to the screen, preceding the shirt pull is a possible foul on the keeper but VAR decide that there is no foul, why isn't the onfield ref not making that call?

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

I’m confused that even with the aid of slow motion they think he could jump and use his arms when he was halfway to the floor after being barged into.

[123EasyasBFC]

I don’t understand after watching that, that they haven’t sent the ref to screen.
VAR can’t see a foul but as soon as AVAR says the striker moves towards Trafford there is silence, that means there is obviously doubt, so refer back to the referee and say we are 50/50 why don’t you have a look at it again on the screen and make a decision

[daveisaclaret]

Bankes thinks it's not a foul because the goalie is allowed to use his hands.

Where do you start with that? What does it mean? Would a five year old say something so stupid?

[Goody1975]

I don’t understand after watching that, that they haven’t sent the ref to screen.
VAR can’t see a foul but as soon as AVAR says the striker moves towards Trafford there is silence, that means there is obviously doubt, so refer back to the referee and say we are 50/50 why don’t you have a look at it again on the screen and make a decision

Exactly, he has a right to say I'm happy with my decision.

[daveisaclaret]

The AVAR clearly thinks it's an obvious foul but doesn't speak up, too.

[123EasyasBFC]

The AVAR clearly thinks it's an obvious foul but doesn't speak up, too.

Yeah he should have the ******** to say I don’t agree with this tbf

[Goody1975]

Yeah he should have the ******** to say I don’t agree with this tbf

Imagine sliding so far in life that you are an assistant to Peter Bankes.

[aggi]

The clear and obvious error thing is just a cop out.

If they only adjudicated on clear and obvious errors they would never need to send the ref to the screen or watch repeated slow motion replays.

And obviously Berge's handball wouldn't have been given if they were only looking for clear and obvious.

Given the number of subjective calls in football I always expected VAR to be bad but I didn't expect it to be this bad.

[123EasyasBFC]

They need to do away with anything other then goal line technology and offsides because if they are saying it’s all subjective then every decision is subjective

[agreenwood]

The clear and obvious error thing is just a cop out.

If they only adjudicated on clear and obvious errors they would never need to send the ref to the screen or watch repeated slow motion replays.

And obviously Berge's handball wouldn't have been given if they were only looking for clear and obvious.

Given the number of subjective calls in football I always expected VAR to be bad but I didn't expect it to be this bad.

Yep. I’d imagine if Webb was asked whether the same standard was applied to Foster’s “winner” at Forest, he’d struggle to answer.

[boyyanno]

That audio makes for grim listening in my opinion. No wonder there's been so many errors with stuff like this.

The AVAR guy clearly disagrees but it feels like he's pressured into conceding. Regardless of what I read about VAR whenever I've seen it's failings it's always the same old nonsense. They don't approach the situations from a neutral perspective because they openly admit that they reviewed the footage in the context of the referee having allowed the decision. There tends to be one guy somewhere who actually does get the right answer but gets shouted down by his colleague who is wrong.

I actually felt uncomfortable in that audio when that guy is trying to press his colleague to "disagree". I thought it was weird terminology because there was no one to "disagree" with. It sounded like someone saying this is on your head and the AVAR guy backed out.

Shambles.

[claretspice]

I have to say I struggle with ths logic of Bankes on VAR. His assistant is quite obviously and correctly telling him it's an error and should be a foul. I think Bankes agrees on its merits but is clearly paralysed by the fear he'll be criticised for overreaching VAR's remit. He ends up answering the assistant to justify not intervening because the keeper 'can jump and use his hands' - completely overlooking the fact that it was because he was fouled that Trafford did neither of those things. I suspect that but for the Calvert Lewin controversy which was a result of VAR overreach the result might have been different.

I've read and seen 7 officials views of this now. Of these only the 2 on the field have thought "goal". The others - both VARs, Webb, Keith Hackett and Dermot Gallagher have clearly thought "foul". Pretty obvious we were very unlucky.

An interesting and under explored question is why Harrington had this game. This was a very significant game on a weekend with relatively few games. It felt like a game deserving of a more senior official. For me it is his on field decision that is the real mistake here- I have sympathy with VAR not intervening (or did until I heard the logic).

[claretandy]

I have to say I struggle with ths logic of Bankes on VAR. His assistant is quite obviously and correctly telling him it's an error and should be a foul. I think Bankes agrees on its merits but is clearly paralysed by the fear he'll be criticised for overreaching VAR's remit. He ends up answering the assistant to justify not intervening because the keeper 'can jump and use his hands' - completely overlooking the fact that it was because he was fouled that Trafford did neither of those things. I suspect that but for the Calvert Lewin controversy which was a result of VAR overreach the result might have been different.

I've read and seen 7 officials views of this now. Of these only the 2 on the field have thought "goal". The others - both VARs, Webb, Keith Hackett and Dermot Gallagher have clearly thought "foul". Pretty obvious we were very unlucky.

An interesting and under explored question is why Harrington had this game. This was a very significant game on a weekend with relatively few games. It felt like a game deserving of a more senior official. For me it is his on field decision that is the real mistake here- I have sympathy with VAR not intervening (or did until I heard the logic).

This, Harrington thinks it's Trafford who barge's adebayo.

[bfcjg]

They'd have a cracking career at the post office.

[Raconteur]

This, Harrington thinks it's Trafford who barge's adebayo.

This is what is now confusing me. With Harrington stating that he thinks it is Trafford who has barged the Luton player, surely this means the mistake was clear and obvious.

[Goody1975]

This is what is now confusing me. With Harrington stating that he thinks it is Trafford who has barged the Luton player, surely this means the mistake was clear and obvious.

You'd think so.

Webb gave me no confidence with the way he stumbled his way through the programme.

[RVclaret]

Trafford on Instagram probably showing he can actually jump if he’s allowed to

[bumba]

The more and more I watch it the worse it looks for Trafford, massive error

[burnmark]

I’ve just listened to the audio and I’m probably more annoyed than on Friday night itself after seeing it for the first time via reply.

The judgement of what happened by both the ref and assistant is completely wrong. That alone should be enough for VAR to conclude that it can be clear and obvious and at least send him to the screen pointing out that the views that ‘Trafford runs into the striker’ and that ‘the striker stands his ground’ are both incorrect and to reassess his decision.

[Rileybobs]

There doesn’t seem to be anywhere in that clip where the VAR and his assistant are applying the laws of the game. Waffling on about the keeper being able to jump and use his hands instead, which has absolutely no relevance. They don’t seem to be following a logical procedure.

[Woonderbah]

Listening to that reminds me of one of those game shows where the contestant is provided with the answer and they have to work backwards to work out what the question is and pad it out with a barely plausible explanation.

[RammyClaret61]

Howard Webb waffled on there for 5 minutes and said sweet FA.

[Stalbansclaret]

There doesn’t seem to be anywhere in that clip where the VAR and his assistant are applying the laws of the game. Waffling on about the keeper being able to jump and use his hands instead, which has absolutely no relevance. They don’t seem to be following a logical procedure.

Spot on. If they’d applied the obstruction law’s wording it’s a complete no-brainer that it’s a foul. Instead the main VAR just spouts completely uninformed crap. Positing that Trafford is as much responsible for collision as Adebayo is just nonsense ..Trafford is just looking at the ball and moving into position to jump when Adebayo backs into him.

[quoonbeatz]

Referees don't understand football.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Why did the ref ask ‘is anyone following me’!? Could he not turn round and see for himself.

[Big Vinny K]

I thought I was watching a rerun of that classic game show 3-2-1 there…..with Howard Webb doing his very best Ted Rogers impression

Absolute ******* nonsense but nobody outside Burnley fans cares one tiny sh-it. They could (and are) literally be saying anything to explain the decision and it just does not touch the sides of interest.

I have no idea anymore who in football wants VAR to carry on. Fans, managers, players, pundits - none of them do.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Good grief, what a car crash.

Webb is hanging Harrington out to dry. Call that leadership? Don’t get me wrong, I thought he had a shocking game and rated him as such. But to say it was a grey area and VAR couldn’t intervene is a farce. Somebody should have told Darren England that at Forest. Bankes chose to sit on his hands, against the advice of the AVAR now it seems. Webb even mentioned the 60/40 online poll in the BBC match report - the 40% are probably Luton fans for heaven’s sake!!

As the many pundits and ex players have said (apart from the Blackburn ones) that foul is given 99.9% of the time.

This programme is one big cover up worthy of our politicians. They play the audio they choose, Webb gives it the spin he wants.

[quoonbeatz]

It gets worse every time you see it and that audio just shows how bad they are at their job. They should be utterly embarrassed at that being made public. It's the most blatant of blatant fouls. None of the officials involved are fit for purpose and that includes Howard Webb. We don't expect perfection, mistakes in the moment are fine, but we expect them to have an understanding of the game and for the right decisions to be made given they have all the help they need.

They've killed football at this level. PGMOL and var need booting out of the game ASAP.

[summitclaret]

We need to take this injustice and use it like Coyle did after the League Cup semi exit, to motivate everyone at the Club to stay up.

[dsr]

Surely an elementary principle of VAR ought to be that the ref is in charge? It seems that the view of VAR was "we can't agree up here, so we'll pretend that the TV replay doesn't exist" when they ought to be saying "you're the ref, it could have gone either way, go and have a look".

Most of the VAR timewasting is pointless. If there is a decision that could have gone either way, then the VAR man ought to have a couple of looks, and tell the ref to go and look for himself. There is no point the VAR man spending 2 minutes at it, because he isn't the referee. He is an assistant, and all he has to do is to draw the ref's attention to something that the ref might want to look at. The idea of spending 2 minutes and more to prove that the ref is clearly wrong, is farcical. If it takes longer than 10 seconds then it's clearly a judgement call and it should be the ref who makes that judgement.

[dsr]

We need to take this injustice and use it like Coyle did after the League Cup semi exit, to motivate everyone at the Club to stay up.

I've given up on this season. I'll shout for a win at the home games, but I don't want to stay up. Seriously. If we were properly competitive, I could probably look past the VAR shambles, but as we're both uncompetitive AND subject to VAR, I just want out.

[THEWELLERNUT70]

Watched it. My take from Webb is that the on field decision is probably wrong, but not wrong enough to overturn it.

Welcome to football in 2024.

And that's what I said on the night. If he gives the foul there's not enough in it to overturn it either